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lucyandroger

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Date: 4/22/2009 1:41:17 PM
Author: sweetliloldme
okay so now what? have ANOTHER conversation with him, tell him that I feel like he''s making excuses..ect,. (i feel like ive said everything i can) then get the ''let it go, your going to ruin the suprise.'' Then I say no, because you''ve had the chance to surprise me and you don''t take it. I already know that the conversation is going to go no where. I''m still going to get the same answers that I keep getting. Any thoughts as to how I can get new ones? Like I said i''ve said everything i can think of, and i need some new ideas.
Sweet,

I really am sorry you''re going through this. Maybe the answer is that this time you need to do the talking. First figure out what it is you''d like from him - commitment to get married this weekend, to go down to the courthouse tonight, etc.

Tell him what you''ve been telling us, why marriage is important to you, what his procrastination is doing to you. Then let him know what he needs to do because you''re not going to just keep bending to his will. Tell him you have a plan for if he decides not to marry you and that you''re prepared to implement it.

Stay firm...If he says "but I want to surprise you - you''re ruining the surprise," then say "you''ve had the opportunity to surprise me and you haven''t. I will not wait for a surprise proposal any more. If you want to marry me, then you''ll go down to the courthouse with me tomorrow."

You''ve given him plenty of opportunities to do things on his terms.
 

sammyj

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Joined
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Messages
1,247
Date: 4/22/2009 1:41:17 PM
Author: sweetliloldme
okay so now what? have ANOTHER conversation with him, tell him that I feel like he''s making excuses..ect,. (i feel like ive said everything i can) then get the ''let it go, your going to ruin the suprise.'' Then I say no, because you''ve had the chance to surprise me and you don''t take it. I already know that the conversation is going to go no where. I''m still going to get the same answers that I keep getting. Any thoughts as to how I can get new ones? Like I said i''ve said everything i can think of, and i need some new ideas.
He''s talking the talk but he''s not walking the walk. He''s saying everything possible to keep you in this relationship but all of his actions, which speak significant volumes, show otherwise.

My next conversation would be "You can tell me that you want to get married and you can tell me you have some surprise planned, but until you can SHOW me that you want to marry me, then I am [enter exit strategy here]." I hope that made sense. I know it''s much easier said than done, but you sound like you''re at your wits end here and your having the same dead-end conversations with your SO.
 

absolut_blonde

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Jan 6, 2008
Messages
808
His actions are speaking loud and clear, IMHO.

I'm sorry, but I don't think he wants to get married.

Maybe he's not ready or maybe he never will be - who knows. I would personally not stick around to find out, particularly considering you have a child together (not that I think you should marry because of that, but if you were already serious I don't see the issue... I am certain SO and I would get married ASAP if a surprise were to happen, we've discussed that before. Call me old-fashioned but I think the 'surprise' factor and other traditional things tend to go out the window when you have a family together.).


And I would be BEYOND PISSED that he booked that trip to Disneyworld a) without even discussing it with you and b) knowing you wanted to do something else with that money. That alone would make me seriously consider leaving his ass.
 

kama_s

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
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Messages
3,617
There are SO many issues wrong with this picture. He booked a trip without consulting you, without asking if that is where you would like to go and without considering what you would have wanted to do with that money. Disrespect on so many levels.

He''s using you and jerking you around. Ask yourself, do you really want to marry this guy?!
 

GG414

Rough_Rock
Joined
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Messages
33
Hi Sweetliloldme, (this is harsh, so I apologize if I hurt your feelings)
I''ve read this post as well as your last post on LIW and I am in agreement with the other PSers. He does not want to marry you. He clearly doesn''t have commitment issues since he bought a ring and proposed to a prior gf. Had he been really serious about you at the beginning of the relationship (prior to baby) I think he would have proposed the minute you found out you were pregnant and decided to keep the child. You said in your previous post, however, that marriage was never even discussed prior to the baby being born. This plus the fact that he had the money for a ring/wedding but wasted it on a vacation w/o regard to your preferences says it all IMO. The "we don''t have money" argument would hold water if he had used the refund money to pay bills or student loans, but he didn''t. This may be reading too much into the situation, but I think he''s just appeasing his conscience by staying with you b/c he feels guilty about getting you pregnant and is using you. I mean it''s probably pretty nice to have someone cook, clean, take care of their child, contribute to bills and sleep with. There doesn''t seem to be much left to discuss, just for you to take action (i.e. leave).

That being said, I don''t know you or him, so he may just be financially irresponsible and really does intend on marrying you someday.

Questions I''m wondering and that you should be asking yourself are:
1. Apart from your feelings, what do you get out of this relationship? Does he provide emotional/physical/financial support to you? Are you happy w/the relationship apart from not being married? Marriage is about more than love, so if he''s not a good partner to you and you aren''t happy, then why are you together?
2. Are there other signs (other than your child) that he intends to make a permanent bond with you? Is the house is both of your names? Do you have joint finances? e.g. Joint checking/saving account? Joint credit card? This doesn''t necessarily mean anything. BUT, all of these things have to be "undone" when a relationship ends. If he only put the house is his name and keeps his finances separate, it may indicate he doesn''t see your relationship as permanent.
3. Did you both decide to have the baby together? It sounds like your pregnancy was unplanned (no judgment, it happens), but once you find out you are pregnant, there are several options to choose from. If you decided to have the baby (without his input) then he might feel trapped and is staying with you out of obligation and is now struggling with that obligation vs. his personal lack of desire to get married.
 

trillionaire

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Apr 18, 2008
Messages
3,881
Date: 4/22/2009 5:44:17 PM
Author: GG414
Hi Sweetliloldme, (this is harsh, so I apologize if I hurt your feelings)
I''ve read this post as well as your last post on LIW and I am in agreement with the other PSers. He does not want to marry you. He clearly doesn''t have commitment issues since he bought a ring and proposed to a prior gf. Had he been really serious about you at the beginning of the relationship (prior to baby) I think he would have proposed the minute you found out you were pregnant and decided to keep the child. You said in your previous post, however, that marriage was never even discussed prior to the baby being born. This plus the fact that he had the money for a ring/wedding but wasted it on a vacation w/o regard to your preferences says it all IMO. The ''we don''t have money'' argument would hold water if he had used the refund money to pay bills or student loans, but he didn''t. This may be reading too much into the situation, but I think he''s just appeasing his conscience by staying with you b/c he feels guilty about getting you pregnant and is using you. I mean it''s probably pretty nice to have someone cook, clean, take care of their child, contribute to bills and sleep with. There doesn''t seem to be much left to discuss, just for you to take action (i.e. leave).

That being said, I don''t know you or him, so he may just be financially irresponsible and really does intend on marrying you someday.

Questions I''m wondering and that you should be asking yourself are:
1. Apart from your feelings, what do you get out of this relationship? Does he provide emotional/physical/financial support to you? Are you happy w/the relationship apart from not being married? Marriage is about more than love, so if he''s not a good partner to you and you aren''t happy, then why are you together?
2. Are there other signs (other than your child) that he intends to make a permanent bond with you? Is the house is both of your names? Do you have joint finances? e.g. Joint checking/saving account? Joint credit card? This doesn''t necessarily mean anything. BUT, all of these things have to be ''undone'' when a relationship ends. If he only put the house is his name and keeps his finances separate, it may indicate he doesn''t see your relationship as permanent.
3. Did you both decide to have the baby together? It sounds like your pregnancy was unplanned (no judgment, it happens), but once you find out you are pregnant, there are several options to choose from. If you decided to have the baby (without his input) then he might feel trapped and is staying with you out of obligation and is now struggling with that obligation vs. his personal lack of desire to get married.
This makes a lot of assumptions about LilOle''s BF. He might have commitment issues BECAUSE he proposed before and it didn''t work out. We have no idea what this man is thinking, but it is clear that he is not ready to be married. I personally would take a different approach.
11.gif


I would tell him that I love surprises, and very much look forward to a surprise proposal. I would also let him know that I have no intention in staying in a dead end relationship, and his lack of actions were communicating to me that that is the direction that things are moving. So one of us is going to surprise the other. I''ve set my internal deadline, of an undisclosed length of time, and we will see who is more serious.
27.gif
And I would give him a watch as a reminder of the conversation.
11.gif


Then again, I am not engaged, and my BF calls me crazy, so take that with a grain of salt...
9.gif
 

fieryred33143

Ideal_Rock
Joined
May 18, 2008
Messages
6,689
Date: 4/22/2009 5:44:17 PM
Author: GG414

Had he been really serious about you at the beginning of the relationship (prior to baby) I think he would have proposed the minute you found out you were pregnant and decided to keep the child.
Again...something I totally do not agree with at all. I think people love to associate baby with marriage but unfortunately that isn''t the smartest or the best option in every case. I don''t want to necessarily take his side but I think its really unfair to be forcing a proposal or assuming he''s a horrible guy just because he knocked her up and now won''t marry her. Having a baby before marriage is not a good idea but neither is getting married just because you get the girl pregnant. That almost never works.

I don''t know...I guess I just don''t want to keep telling sweet that he needs to make her wife because of their situation. What he needs to do is decide if he really loves her and really wants to be with her as husband and wife.
 

choro72

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Feb 11, 2008
Messages
1,867
Date: 4/22/2009 1:41:17 PM
Author: sweetliloldme
okay so now what? have ANOTHER conversation with him, tell him that I feel like he''s making excuses..ect,. (i feel like ive said everything i can) then get the ''let it go, your going to ruin the suprise.'' Then I say no, because you''ve had the chance to surprise me and you don''t take it. I already know that the conversation is going to go no where. I''m still going to get the same answers that I keep getting. Any thoughts as to how I can get new ones? Like I said i''ve said everything i can think of, and i need some new ideas.
You''re not going to get any new answers from him, because he''s already showed you clearly where he stands. He may love you, he may be a great dad, but he''s not going to marry you anytime soon.

So as to "now what?". First option is to take Wink''s suggestion. I think the next conversation with him can be to establish what role he is going to play in your child''s life, make sure you and she gets the support that you are legally entitled to, and figure out what to do with the house.
Second option is to stay the way you are and release all false hope of marriage in the near future.

I''m sorry you''re going through this.
7.gif
It''s so much easier said than done.
 

GG414

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 25, 2009
Messages
33
Date: 4/22/2009 9:22:50 PM
Author: fieryred33143
Date: 4/22/2009 5:44:17 PM

Author: GG414


Had he been really serious about you at the beginning of the relationship (prior to baby) I think he would have proposed the minute you found out you were pregnant and decided to keep the child.

Again...something I totally do not agree with at all. I think people love to associate baby with marriage but unfortunately that isn''t the smartest or the best option in every case. I don''t want to necessarily take his side but I think its really unfair to be forcing a proposal or assuming he''s a horrible guy just because he knocked her up and now won''t marry her. Having a baby before marriage is not a good idea but neither is getting married just because you get the girl pregnant. That almost never works.


I don''t know...I guess I just don''t want to keep telling sweet that he needs to make her wife because of their situation. What he needs to do is decide if he really loves her and really wants to be with her as husband and wife.

I am in total agreement with you. People should not get married b/c they have a baby. However, what I was trying to express was that if people feel that strongly about each other prior to something like that happening then the event of having a baby will often accelerate marriage (or at least discussions of it) even though the couple originally intended on waiting longer.
 

GG414

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 25, 2009
Messages
33
Date: 4/22/2009 8:53:18 PM
Author: trillionaire
Date: 4/22/2009 5:44:17 PM

Author: GG414

Hi Sweetliloldme, (this is harsh, so I apologize if I hurt your feelings)

I''ve read this post as well as your last post on LIW and I am in agreement with the other PSers. He does not want to marry you. He clearly doesn''t have commitment issues since he bought a ring and proposed to a prior gf. Had he been really serious about you at the beginning of the relationship (prior to baby) I think he would have proposed the minute you found out you were pregnant and decided to keep the child. You said in your previous post, however, that marriage was never even discussed prior to the baby being born. This plus the fact that he had the money for a ring/wedding but wasted it on a vacation w/o regard to your preferences says it all IMO. The ''we don''t have money'' argument would hold water if he had used the refund money to pay bills or student loans, but he didn''t. This may be reading too much into the situation, but I think he''s just appeasing his conscience by staying with you b/c he feels guilty about getting you pregnant and is using you. I mean it''s probably pretty nice to have someone cook, clean, take care of their child, contribute to bills and sleep with. There doesn''t seem to be much left to discuss, just for you to take action (i.e. leave).


That being said, I don''t know you or him, so he may just be financially irresponsible and really does intend on marrying you someday.


Questions I''m wondering and that you should be asking yourself are:

1. Apart from your feelings, what do you get out of this relationship? Does he provide emotional/physical/financial support to you? Are you happy w/the relationship apart from not being married? Marriage is about more than love, so if he''s not a good partner to you and you aren''t happy, then why are you together?

2. Are there other signs (other than your child) that he intends to make a permanent bond with you? Is the house is both of your names? Do you have joint finances? e.g. Joint checking/saving account? Joint credit card? This doesn''t necessarily mean anything. BUT, all of these things have to be ''undone'' when a relationship ends. If he only put the house is his name and keeps his finances separate, it may indicate he doesn''t see your relationship as permanent.

3. Did you both decide to have the baby together? It sounds like your pregnancy was unplanned (no judgment, it happens), but once you find out you are pregnant, there are several options to choose from. If you decided to have the baby (without his input) then he might feel trapped and is staying with you out of obligation and is now struggling with that obligation vs. his personal lack of desire to get married.

This makes a lot of assumptions about LilOle''s BF. He might have commitment issues BECAUSE he proposed before and it didn''t work out. We have no idea what this man is thinking, but it is clear that he is not ready to be married. I personally would take a different approach.
11.gif



I would tell him that I love surprises, and very much look forward to a surprise proposal. I would also let him know that I have no intention in staying in a dead end relationship, and his lack of actions were communicating to me that that is the direction that things are moving. So one of us is going to surprise the other. I''ve set my internal deadline, of an undisclosed length of time, and we will see who is more serious.
27.gif
And I would give him a watch as a reminder of the conversation.
11.gif



Then again, I am not engaged, and my BF calls me crazy, so take that with a grain of salt...
9.gif

I agree, this is an assumption on my part. Since lilole didn''t mention anything traumatic about the former fiance other than that it didn''t work out I assumed he hasn''t been permanently scarred. Who knows though. . .

Also, I like your screenname.
 

purrfectpear

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Mar 31, 2008
Messages
4,079
You''re done talking, unless you just like to watch his lips flapping in the breeze
24.gif


http://www.usmarriagelaws.com/ Find your state, read the rules, set an appointment, and give the clerk around $40. He''ll either show up or not.

It isn''t written in stone that a woman has to wait around indefinitely for a man to make a decision. You say you need an answer, make the appointment.
 

sweetliloldme

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 1, 2009
Messages
83
Ladies, thanks for all of the help.

Just to clear a couple things up...it was a mutual decisison to keep the baby. When we found out we talked about it and after we both decided that we wanted to keep her I told him that he was not obligated to me and that he didn''t EVER have to stay with me because of her, nor did I want him too. I want to get married to him because I love him with all of my heart, and I know that I want to spend the rest of my life with him. In addition to that, yes we have a daughter and I want our family to be completed (doesn''t mean I want to get married because of her.)

We talked last night and he said he doesn''t understand why I''m in such a rush and would like me to wait until our lives "die down a bit"-as he put it. I told him that I''m tired of the excuses and that I''m not waiting forever. I love him, but I''m not going to stay with someone who doesn''t love me enough or value our relationship enough to want to get married. I also told him that it hurts that he doesn''t view it as important. In a nut shell he told me it is, just not right now. So my conclusion is this (haven''t told him this) I''ll give him six months-enough time to study for and retake the bar, and get the results back with a month to spare after that. If nothing happens by then, I cut my losses. I''m willing to give him time and everything, but there''s going to come a point that he''s going to run out of excuses and he''s going to have to make a decision. If he loves me and means everything that he says then he won''t let me go.

Do you think this is unfair of me to kind of put a time cap on it? Like I said I didn''t tell him when, because he said that he wants for everything to die down( and that''s what he means the test and everything.) So after that then there should be NO reason for waiting. Right?
 

fieryred33143

Ideal_Rock
Joined
May 18, 2008
Messages
6,689
Date: 4/23/2009 10:15:59 AM
Author: sweetliloldme


Do you think this is unfair of me to kind of put a time cap on it? Like I said I didn''t tell him when, because he said that he wants for everything to die down( and that''s what he means the test and everything.) So after that then there should be NO reason for waiting. Right?
When you are making a decision that you have sincerely thought it all through and feel its the best one for you to make, then it isn''t unfair. If six months is all you feel comfortable giving him, then that''s the right decision for you.

It''s a good thing you didn''t tell him about the 6 months and I would keep that timeline to yourself. The last thing you want is for him to propose because of the timeline or not propose and you don''t follow through with leaving. You know?
 

lucyandroger

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
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Messages
1,557
36.gif


Well I think you did an awesome job. I can tell just from the tone of your new post that it felt good to get that off your chest and take some control back for yourself.
 

tlh

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Dec 31, 2008
Messages
4,508
Date: 4/22/2009 9:22:50 PM
Author: fieryred33143

Date: 4/22/2009 5:44:17 PM
Author: GG414

Had he been really serious about you at the beginning of the relationship (prior to baby) I think he would have proposed the minute you found out you were pregnant and decided to keep the child.
Again...something I totally do not agree with at all. I think people love to associate baby with marriage but unfortunately that isn''t the smartest or the best option in every case. I don''t want to necessarily take his side but I think its really unfair to be forcing a proposal or assuming he''s a horrible guy just because he knocked her up and now won''t marry her. Having a baby before marriage is not a good idea but neither is getting married just because you get the girl pregnant. That almost never works.

I don''t know...I guess I just don''t want to keep telling sweet that he needs to make her wife because of their situation. What he needs to do is decide if he really loves her and really wants to be with her as husband and wife.
I agree with Fiery. I do however feel that booking a trip w/o consulting you first - can be extremely disrespectful. But who knows... maybe he wants to propose at disney? Wouldnt be the first time. You may be giving him conflicting signals too. If all he''s heard for 2 years is that you wanted a big wedding, he may feel that is what you still want... and that is what he wants to give you.

Sometimes clear discussions can really help find where each person is coming from. Best wishes!
 

Winks_Elf

Brilliant_Rock
Trade
Joined
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Messages
1,675
Date: 4/22/2009 12:55:04 PM
Author: fieryred33143

Are you suggesting she gets the order for child support then come home and throw it in his face in a ''if you don''t marry me this is what''s waiting for you'' kind of way?


Or suggesting she puts the plans in motion to get herself out of the relationship?

Absolutely NOT to the first part! Yes, to the second. He needs to learn he can''t have his cake and eat it too. If he wants to drag his feet to the alter, that''s fine, but there needs to be some important paperwork and guidelines put in place for the sake of the child. Yes, they are living together, but without that marriage certificate she needs to have child support in place so that if things do fall apart there is a clear cut plan in place for child support and visitation. Custody and support of a child can get ugly fast if they break up.
 

gwendolyn

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Joined
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Messages
6,770
Date: 4/23/2009 11:04:31 AM
Author: tlh
I agree with Fiery. I do however feel that booking a trip w/o consulting you first - can be extremely disrespectful. But who knows... maybe he wants to propose at disney? Wouldnt be the first time. You may be giving him conflicting signals too. If all he''s heard for 2 years is that you wanted a big wedding, he may feel that is what you still want... and that is what he wants to give you.


Sometimes clear discussions can really help find where each person is coming from. Best wishes!
The OP said they have already come and gone from Disney and he didn''t propose...
 

purrfectpear

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Mar 31, 2008
Messages
4,079
In the case of the Disney vacation, the Mouse was the winner, not the OP. No ring, no wedding, just Mickey and his profits
38.gif
 

choro72

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Feb 11, 2008
Messages
1,867
sweetliloldme, I like your plan, and good thing you didn''t tell him about your timeline. And you are not being unfair. It''s neither your fault nor his. It''s just that you''re ready and he''s not, and it will be unfair for you to stay.
 

LaraOnline

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Feb 24, 2008
Messages
3,365
Date: 4/23/2009 10:15:59 AM
Author: sweetliloldme
Ladies, thanks for all of the help.
Do you think this is unfair of me to kind of put a time cap on it? Like I said I didn''t tell him when, because he said that he wants for everything to die down( and that''s what he means the test and everything.) So after that then there should be NO reason for waiting. Right?

No, I think an internal timecap is reasonable, and healthy tbh. Everyone''s allowed to have some expectations for their own life. It''s just a question of what that timeline should be.

I think you should work towards being co-operative with him. I can understand why he feels he should pass his bar exam first, before being drawn in to all the excitement of a wedding. Many men do feel more comfortable proposing when they know what their lifestyle will be longer term. eg after he has accepted his first job offer or whatever...
so I think your decision to help him pass his exam first is a good one and the considerate choice, rather than imposing a massive break up and dislocation just before his exams.

Even if you eventually don''t end up together, because your timeline expires and you must move on, it will stand your child in good stead having her father be successful in his life.
 

mrscushion

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Nov 15, 2008
Messages
3,309
Date: 4/23/2009 8:22:47 PM
Author: LaraOnline
No, I think an internal timecap is reasonable, and healthy tbh. Everyone''s allowed to have some expectations for their own life. It''s just a question of what that timeline should be.

I think you should work towards being co-operative with him. I can understand why he feels he should pass his bar exam first, before being drawn in to all the excitement of a wedding. Many men do feel more comfortable proposing when they know what their lifestyle will be longer term. eg after he has accepted his first job offer or whatever...

so I think your decision to help him pass his exam first is a good one and the considerate choice, rather than imposing a massive break up and dislocation just before his exams.

Even if you eventually don''t end up together, because your timeline expires and you must move on, it will stand your child in good stead having her father be successful in his life.
I again completely agree with Lara.
 
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