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chemgirl

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Sep 16, 2009
Messages
2,139
I utterly agree that people should not be traveling at all, internationally or domestically, right now, and that they should be staying home except for the most essential of reasons.

That said, I have a bit of a hypothetical question for the Canadians here: what would you as Canadians think of Americans who've been very careful about their exposure risk slipping through not to do a fun travel visit or for recreation, but looking to stay for a while for reasons of not being safe in the US and who were very open about being from America, quarantined themselves for an extra-long time, and did everything they possibly could to prevent risk to Canadians? Oh, and weren't going to try to take a job from anyone or need any kind of financial assistance during the pandemic. I'm not referring so much to the current laws around the matter, but just what your average Canadian would think of those people. I guess what you could deem "super-responsible but desperate COVID refugees." Because it's getting increasingly difficult here for even the strictest of us to stay away from it, and I'm predicting that will get worse. For example, they're forcing even high-risk people to do jury duty in person in the middle of this, for crying out loud, with the kind of numbers we have and with no option to use online video conferencing instead, and they're not offering any other options for drivers license renewals than to go in in person, take off masks for pictures, and stick your face in the full-face device that everyone else's face has been in for the vision test. There's plenty more, but those are just a couple examples. It's everywhere, between the behavior and attitudes of private individuals to public and government policy, at least where I'm at, because that policy is all being set by people with the same "it's only the flu, it's a conspiracy, we can't hurt the economy, just suck it up, everyone dies" beliefs.

I'm feeling increasingly unsafe and desperate here. Honestly, DH and I want out permanently, and I think the only thing stopping us is that no one is letting Americans in at all. Which I understand from their perspective, but......we feel like if we stay here any longer, we're going to die.

Sorry......just....desperate and rambling.
Canadian here and personally wouldn’t have an issue with a refugee situation. There would need to be fairly strict rules about quarantine after arrival.

It’s funny, but I don’t think the average Canadian has the “they took our jobs” mentality. I would be ok with someone in a refugee situation working and receiving healthcare. I mean friends have hosted Syrian families and we participate in community programs to welcome refugees. I know this isn’t exactly the same, but meh I’m sure there are people who are at high risk for COVID who could make a good argument.
 

Mekp

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Oct 15, 2016
Messages
183
Canadian here and personally wouldn’t have an issue with a refugee situation. There would need to be fairly strict rules about quarantine after arrival.

It’s funny, but I don’t think the average Canadian has the “they took our jobs” mentality. I would be ok with someone in a refugee situation working and receiving healthcare. I mean friends have hosted Syrian families and we participate in community programs to welcome refugees. I know this isn’t exactly the same, but meh I’m sure there are people who are at high risk for COVID who could make a good argument.
Agreed. If someone came here through proper channels, it is completely reasonable that they work here and have healthcare. I think most Canadians would support that.
 

ItsMainelyYou

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Jun 27, 2014
Messages
809
We are increasingly seeing much farther afield out of state plates at quite the clip around here recently. Some see us as a safe haven state with little infection and comparatively, that's true. We're also colloquially Canada Jr. They don't think that they could possibly bring it with them. It's terrifying for us because we know they aren't thinking of our safety. If they were they'd know that a state with a little over a million people, most of them old, can't carry the burden of their possible infection. We can't really enforce quarantine/don't have the infrastructure to deal with Covid. This is one of the few times I really wish we didn't have Vacationland on our signage...
 

Begonia

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Feb 2, 2011
Messages
2,043
I may be the lone dissenter here, but I feel that small trickle could turn into a stream into a...those folks would have to be monitored (as with Canadians, who pay taxes). All costs associated with harboring should be billed directly to those wishing harbor. We are so busy dealing with our recession/depression that infrastructure isn't set up. It's not our priority right now.

I think there must be parts of the US that still have relatively lower cases and my feeling is that avenue should be explored first.

Canada may not be a welcoming port, and it might be a bad experience during the pandemic. Something extraordinary is happening world wide and people here too are edgy, reactive and frightened.
 

lyra

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jul 13, 2007
Messages
5,150
Online, Canadians do NOT want the US border open at all. I don't want to see the spread of this pandemic come here from travel. Like I said though, you can fly in. You just can't drive in. And you certainly can't move in or identify as refugee if you're an American citizen. Canadians are very polite, but honestly, truthfully, not necessarily friendly. Just being real. This is what I see universally from being in Canadian forums, and just from being Canadian. Within our own country there are east vs west divisions among many others.
 

Begonia

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Feb 2, 2011
Messages
2,043
Canadians do not agree with international travellers flying in either. At this point, travellers aren't welcome. Even those between provinces are not welcomed and wanted.

I live in a low risk area, and we are all housebound. I shop for groceries once a week at 7am wearing a mask and gloves, online shop for all personal items and walk in my neighborhood early for exercise. How would that change from living in a high risk American state? There are those who are gadding about in malls and flocking on beaches but the reason our cases are relatively low is because we're housebound.
 

lyra

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jul 13, 2007
Messages
5,150
@Begonia One of the most disturbing things I've seen in Canada has been the animosity between individual provinces. I'd never thought that would ever be an issue here, the not being able to travel between provinces. It's quite surreal. I also never knew about the west vs. east thing until I moved to Vancouver for 15 years. I wish we could have stayed there though. All of DH's family is there.
 

Begonia

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Feb 2, 2011
Messages
2,043
@Begonia One of the most disturbing things I've seen in Canada has been the animosity between individual provinces. I'd never thought that would ever be an issue here, the not being able to travel between provinces. It's quite surreal. I also never knew about the west vs. east thing until I moved to Vancouver for 15 years. I wish we could have stayed there though. All of DH's family is there.
Well the perception is the West is and has always been ignored. Our current PM has family and roots in BC, so that stance has softened a bit. We traveled as a family last summer to Ottawa, Quebec City and Montreal. The welcome was mixed, especially since only one son knows French. I hear you there, Canada is vast and quite divided on many levels.
 

anne_h

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jun 13, 2005
Messages
1,035
Canadians do not agree with international travellers flying in either. At this point, travellers aren't welcome. Even those between provinces are not welcomed and wanted.
Canadian here. International travelers may not be welcomed, but they are currently allowed.

I live in a condo building where a unit was just rented to a family from Europe. They flew in late one night and went straight into a 14-day quarantine. As far as I know, they are respecting it.

Apparently one member of the family is a doctor. Initially, their Canadian realtor advised them that healthcare workers were exempt from quarantine (yeah, just think about that one for a minute), so that had to be sorted out before they arrived.

Personally, I didn't love the situation (COVID risk) but it's not my choice so it is what it is.

Anne
 

chemgirl

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Sep 16, 2009
Messages
2,139
Well the perception is the West is and has always been ignored. Our current PM has family and roots in BC, so that stance has softened a bit. We traveled as a family last summer to Ottawa, Quebec City and Montreal. The welcome was mixed, especially since only one son knows French. I hear you there, Canada is vast and quite divided on many levels.
Re: Quebec City and Montreal, you’ll get a mixed response from people if you’re not Québécois. I speak perfect French, but not with a Quebec accent so people act like I’m insulting them. I’m better off pretending I don’t understand French.

Edited to add: I was once in a Subway restaurant in Montreal ordering a quick lunch and the employee acted like I wasn’t speaking French. He kept on repeating that he couldn’t understand me and mimicking my accent. Meanwhile he’s making my exact sandwich with the correct bread choice and everything. Clearly he understood perfectly.
 
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lyra

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jul 13, 2007
Messages
5,150
They're not enforcing the self-quarantine as far as I know. My husband came back from New York and was told at the border that he should self-quarantine, but that if he had to work, it was okay to leave the country again. No one checked on him, not even by phone. He's going back to New York next week, and then on to Europe for 2 weeks a bit later. He (and all of us) wears a mask as he should.
 

chemgirl

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Sep 16, 2009
Messages
2,139
They're not enforcing the self-quarantine as far as I know. My husband came back from New York and was told at the border that he should self-quarantine, but that if he had to work, it was okay to leave the country again. No one checked on him, not even by phone. He's going back to New York next week, and then on to Europe for 2 weeks a bit later. He (and all of us) wears a mask as he should.
I received this message on my phone when it pinged a US tower. Nothing to follow-up though.

1B5A65DB-D1D6-4F36-9A9B-924D8A6BD84B.png
 

LLJsmom

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Oct 24, 2012
Messages
9,586
A couple from Florida (!) came thru somehow and didn't quarantine, and they've been charged and fined. Small comfort knowing the people they might have exposed. Now public health has to do all the contact tracing.

This isn't the year for holidaying folks. Stay home and save your pennies, because the way things are going, you're going to need it.
Yes, hit them in their wallets. That's the only thing that will get them to change their behavior. Pay us and now, get out.
 

missy

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jun 8, 2008
Messages
38,766
They're not enforcing the self-quarantine as far as I know. My husband came back from New York and was told at the border that he should self-quarantine, but that if he had to work, it was okay to leave the country again. No one checked on him, not even by phone. He's going back to New York next week, and then on to Europe for 2 weeks a bit later. He (and all of us) wears a mask as he should.
Same here. If someone comes here (NJ) from out of state they are supposed to call 511. In order to find out what rules pertain to them (depending on what state they are coming from) when traveling here. However, no one is enforcing anything here as far as I know. Not even enforcing wearing masks. It remains (as most things so far re Covid) a wishy washy recommendation though as of July 8th our governor made it an executive order. However the wording is wishy washy IMO.


:((
 

OboeGal

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
Joined
Mar 22, 2017
Messages
780
I appreciate your situation. It really sucks.

It's an interesting question. While there is part of me that is very reluctant to say yes, I would be ok with that plan (my mom is incredibly high risk and I'm terrified about her catching it), I also strongly believe in Canada being a safe haven for others who are not safe in their home country. I can certainly see that the USA is not safe for many right now.

My husband's family immigrated to Canada from the US just before he was born. They felt increasingly unsafe where they were in the States, discovered Toronto and moved their family here in 1976. If you are serious about coming here, whether during this current crisis or afterwards, I know you will find a welcoming home.
Thank you for your understanding and generous spirit. DH and I were already increasingly unhappy in the US even before the pandemic and both see ourselves as having more of the political and social spirit of Canada, Australia, NZ, and the western/northern European countries. We're hoping we survive this to get to one of those countries.

I live in a low risk area, and we are all housebound. I shop for groceries once a week at 7am wearing a mask and gloves, online shop for all personal items and walk in my neighborhood early for exercise. How would that change from living in a high risk American state? There are those who are gadding about in malls and flocking on beaches but the reason our cases are relatively low is because we're housebound.
DH and I have followed the same cautions and even more - we pay (quite a lot) to get our groceries delivered (which is never done correctly and there is no incentive for them to, as we have to pay the tip BEFORE they're delivered :roll2:). The problem for us is that our governments at the local, state, and federal level are not allowing us to continue to do that; they're forcing us out into the public in high-risk activities such as requiring people to serve jury duty - even high-risk people - in person rather than through video conferencing. Another example is the push from the federal government as well as many states to block voting by mail this November, while at the same time reducing the number of polling places, which ensures that each polling place will be horribly crowded indoors and people will have to wait for long periods of time together. There's no temporary option to renew a driver's license for high-risk people online; everyone has to go in the Bureau of Motor Vehicles, stand in line, deal face-to-face with workers that have been doing that with everyone, take masks off for the picture, and put their face into a machine that requires full skin contact to do a vision test that every other person and their cousin has had their face in before you. (I don't see why they can't set up a temporary online renewal for high-risk people that lasts only until the pandemic is over, and then has to be renewed in person.) Combine that with the fact that, where we live, the overwhelming majority of people are doing everything they can to spread this - refusing to wear masks, harassing and intimidating those who do, holding big parties over and over, harassing and threatening every government or public health official who tries to talk sense, etc, so we know that the other people we encounter, whether members of the public or workers, have a high risk of being infected. It's terrifying here.

I certainly can understand why many would feel fear of COVID refugees, though. I get it. And it certainly could be disastrous for lots of people to stream to areas that don't have the infrastructure to handle those that might turn out to be infected.
 

Begonia

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Feb 2, 2011
Messages
2,043
I can only tell you what I and fellow Canadians I'm in contact with feel, is that international travellers are not welcome to travel, holiday and harbor in Canada during this pandemic. 89% of Canadians are in favor of the border staying closed. We could get into a long, complicated discussion about whether this constitutes refugee status, which I'm not interested in doing. Yes, I can see why the interest in the countries listed with government sponsored health care. That is very attractive to many right now

We don't have the infrastructure to check our own citizens in some provinces, although in my province that is being done, which could account for lower levels of COVID here. We don't have the resources and infrastructure to check on non citizens. What happens to those who fall ill during quarantine? They take up a hospital bed and ventilator. No.

I'm no expert on pandemics so I look to my health officer and the officials we elected: our premiers and Prime Minister. The border stays closed and I'm in that 89%.
 

doberman

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
Joined
Mar 2, 2012
Messages
1,947
I’m American and am ashamed to say so right now with the behavior of so many of my fellow citizens. Very few people seem to get the concept of doing something for the greater good....wearing a mask is really not that much to ask, yet here in the South, I’d say about 50% of people I see in the grocery store aren’t wearing them. We will never get out of the hole we’ve dug for ourselves if we can’t work together. :angryfire::blackeye:

Good for your countries to do the right thing for its citizens and protect you when possible!
We are in NJ. We were hit early on with the virus but numbers are decreasing. I see masks everywhere, and signs enforcing mask rules. Then my sister tells me in Georgia people aren't wearing masks at all...and going out to eat! The problem is all this states rights crap we live with. There's no federal authority that can insist on mask usage or closing of certain businesses. And let's face it, with the moron- in- chief busy trying to monetize covid for himself and his buddies any direction from that sector is downright dangerous.

I've been embarrassed to be an American since 2016.
 

yennyfire

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Jun 6, 2010
Messages
6,563
We are in NJ. We were hit early on with the virus but numbers are decreasing. I see masks everywhere, and signs enforcing mask rules. Then my sister tells me in Georgia people aren't wearing masks at all...and going out to eat! The problem is all this states rights crap we live with. There's no federal authority that can insist on mask usage or closing of certain businesses. And let's face it, with the moron- in- chief busy trying to monetize covid for himself and his buddies any direction from that sector is downright dangerous.

I've been embarrassed to be an American since 2016.
Yup. Georgia is mostly bass-awkward! And I agree with the rest of your assessment too. November can’t come soon enough!
 

Volute

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 5, 2020
Messages
75
I utterly agree that people should not be traveling at all, internationally or domestically, right now, and that they should be staying home except for the most essential of reasons.

That said, I have a bit of a hypothetical question for the Canadians here: what would you as Canadians think of Americans who've been very careful about their exposure risk slipping through not to do a fun travel visit or for recreation, but looking to stay for a while for reasons of not being safe in the US and who were very open about being from America, quarantined themselves for an extra-long time, and did everything they possibly could to prevent risk to Canadians? Oh, and weren't going to try to take a job from anyone or need any kind of financial assistance during the pandemic. I'm not referring so much to the current laws around the matter, but just what your average Canadian would think of those people. I guess what you could deem "super-responsible but desperate COVID refugees." Because it's getting increasingly difficult here for even the strictest of us to stay away from it, and I'm predicting that will get worse. For example, they're forcing even high-risk people to do jury duty in person in the middle of this, for crying out loud, with the kind of numbers we have and with no option to use online video conferencing instead, and they're not offering any other options for drivers license renewals than to go in in person, take off masks for pictures, and stick your face in the full-face device that everyone else's face has been in for the vision test. There's plenty more, but those are just a couple examples. It's everywhere, between the behavior and attitudes of private individuals to public and government policy, at least where I'm at, because that policy is all being set by people with the same "it's only the flu, it's a conspiracy, we can't hurt the economy, just suck it up, everyone dies" beliefs.

I'm feeling increasingly unsafe and desperate here. Honestly, DH and I want out permanently, and I think the only thing stopping us is that no one is letting Americans in at all. Which I understand from their perspective, but......we feel like if we stay here any longer, we're going to die.

Sorry......just....desperate and rambling.
Oh OboeGal, come over to the PNW! It's not perfect here in Seattle by any means, but I've been pleasantly surprised by mask compliance, and the majority of the people in my city are careful and sane. I'm unhappy about the US for other reasons, but my neighbors and my family's neighbors have been great.
 

OboeGal

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
Joined
Mar 22, 2017
Messages
780
Oh OboeGal, come over to the PNW! It's not perfect here in Seattle by any means, but I've been pleasantly surprised by mask compliance, and the majority of the people in my city are careful and sane. I'm unhappy about the US for other reasons, but my neighbors and my family's neighbors have been great.
That's really good to hear; that has been our back-up plan - to move to a more sane area of the US.
 

Daisys and Diamonds

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Apr 30, 2019
Messages
5,679
We talked about her going to her other daughters place in the US which is far closer but someone would have to pick her up and drive her.
Because she cant fly on a plane and flights are huge $$.
Which with the border closed cant be done either.
She has lots of friends who are taking good care of her.
My best wishes to her
its good she plenty of friends looking out for her
 

OboeGal

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
Joined
Mar 22, 2017
Messages
780
Yes, I can see why the interest in the countries listed with government sponsored health care. That is very attractive to many right now
I really hope you're not implying that DH and I are just looking to "take advantage of free health care" or something like that. We're not. We can pay our way. We're simply looking for somewhere where we can continue to quarantine ourselves and avoid others responsibly WITHOUT being forced out of our house to risk our lives by our own government among an insane populace. That's all. My reference to that list of countries was referring to places where DH and I resonate with the whole political, social, and cultural fabric in a way that we don't in the US. We are utterly out of place here on many levels, especially my DH, who came here from his birthplace, the Netherlands, 15 years ago.

ETA: I get that Canadians are concerned about Americans fleeing there and bringing the virus, and straining infrastructure. That's a reasonable concern; I get it and respect it. I also get that Canadians are angry that some Americans are traveling/vacationing there under false pretenses, carelessly, without quarantining and without regard for the health and well-being of Canadians. That is wrong, selfish, sick behavior that Canadians have every reason to be enraged by. DH and I have been incredibly careful, and would never dream of putting others at risk, whether Canadian or American. If we had more seriously considered the idea I was discussing, we would have undertaken the utmost of care to be respectful, thoughtful, safe, and not a burden, and we were only considering it from a position of sheer desperation. It was very difficult, actually, to even ask the question; I felt extremely vulnerable in doing so. I get the message loud and clear that we're not welcome regardless of the circumstances, and clearly I've made a mistake even broaching it, but I'm saddened by the tone of hostility I'm picking up as well as the potential implication that we're out looking to take advantage of government-sponsored healthcare. I hope that I'm misreading you, and if so, I apologize.
 
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Daisys and Diamonds

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Apr 30, 2019
Messages
5,679
I love Americans
I don't care who you vote for either
Id welcome you all here but its pretty hard to get into NZ right now unless you are a citizen or permanent resident - although i don't think the tax payer should contunue to pick up the quareteen bill
 

mellowyellowgirl

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
May 17, 2014
Messages
3,951
I love Americans
I don't care who you vote for either
Id welcome you all here but its pretty hard to get into NZ right now unless you are a citizen or permanent resident - although i don't think the tax payer should contunue to pick up the quareteen bill
They're not charging for it yet?

$3000 for first adult, $1000 for additional adult and $500 per child over 3 in NSW.

I'm really glad they were charging. I've heard stories of idiots going back and forth to visit their mistresses (obviously not declared in the forms----long story)
 

missy

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jun 8, 2008
Messages
38,766
We are in NJ. We were hit early on with the virus but numbers are decreasing. I see masks everywhere, and signs enforcing mask rules. Then my sister tells me in Georgia people aren't wearing masks at all...and going out to eat! The problem is all this states rights crap we live with. There's no federal authority that can insist on mask usage or closing of certain businesses. And let's face it, with the moron- in- chief busy trying to monetize covid for himself and his buddies any direction from that sector is downright dangerous.

I've been embarrassed to be an American since 2016.
I think this varies wildly across the state. We have observed very few people wearing masks on the super crowded boardwalks at the Jersey Shore (Monmouth County) and on the beaches which are packed with people.

My prediction is are numbers will increase. I hope fervently I am wrong. Sadly though I think we will be seeing an increase in the infection rate in NJ in the coming weeks/months. Time will tell. By no means is mask wearing and social distancing a universal action here in NJ. Not from our observations.
 

missy

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jun 8, 2008
Messages
38,766
DH and I have followed the same cautions and even more - we pay (quite a lot) to get our groceries delivered (which is never done correctly and there is no incentive for them to, as we have to pay the tip BEFORE they're delivered :roll2:). The problem for us is that our governments at the local, state, and federal level are not allowing us to continue to do that; they're forcing us out into the public in high-risk activities such as requiring people to serve jury duty - even high-risk people - in person rather than through video conferencing. Another example is the push from the federal government as well as many states to block voting by mail this November, while at the same time reducing the number of polling places, which ensures that each polling place will be horribly crowded indoors and people will have to wait for long periods of time together. There's no temporary option to renew a driver's license for high-risk people online; everyone has to go in the Bureau of Motor Vehicles, stand in line, deal face-to-face with workers that have been doing that with everyone, take masks off for the picture, and put their face into a machine that requires full skin contact to do a vision test that every other person and their cousin has had their face in before you. (I don't see why they can't set up a temporary online renewal for high-risk people that lasts only until the pandemic is over, and then has to be renewed in person.) Combine that with the fact that, where we live, the overwhelming majority of people are doing everything they can to spread this - refusing to wear masks, harassing and intimidating those who do, holding big parties over and over, harassing and threatening every government or public health official who tries to talk sense, etc, so we know that the other people we encounter, whether members of the public or workers, have a high risk of being infected. It's terrifying here.
That in insane and I am so sorry you and your DH are experiencing this. I cannot believe they are forcing people who are vulnerable to go to jury duty etc. Unfathomable. I would, if I were you, refuse to go if called to jury duty and refuse to renew my license etc. I would absolutely not put myself at risk. I mean I hear they are releasing prisoners early due to wanting to decrease crowded prisons etc and yet they are threatening law abiding citizens with arrest if they don't go to jury duty and put themselves at risk? That is freaking irresponsible and unconscionable and I would refuse. I wonder if your physician can write a note to get it postponed? I know when I was called to jury duty 2 years ago I postponed it for 6 months I believe and then I was able to postpone it one more time so in effect I was able to delay jury duty for a year. We might be free of Covid 19 by then.

I am very sorry you are going through this @OboeGal and I would invite you here if I felt it was safer here. I don't think it is and in fact I am not sure there is a safe place in the USA not for long anyway given who our President is and his complete lack of regard for the safety of others. It is sad to see people working against each other instead of with each other. We could accomplish so much more if we all worked together as a team instead of divisiveness ruling the day. :(

Sending you hugs and well wishes. Praying we all can get through this in one piece.
 

Daisys and Diamonds

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Apr 30, 2019
Messages
5,679
They're not charging for it yet?

$3000 for first adult, $1000 for additional adult and $500 per child over 3 in NSW.

I'm really glad they were charging. I've heard stories of idiots going back and forth to visit their mistresses (obviously not declared in the forms----long story)
Yip Not charging for it yet :doh:
 

Daisys and Diamonds

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Apr 30, 2019
Messages
5,679
I think this varies wildly across the state. We have observed very few people wearing masks on the super crowded boardwalks at the Jersey Shore (Monmouth County) and on the beaches which are packed with people.

My prediction is are numbers will increase. I hope fervently I am wrong. Sadly though I think we will be seeing an increase in the infection rate in NJ in the coming weeks/months. Time will tell. By no means is mask wearing and social distancing a universal action here in NJ. Not from our observations.
Dont they care their most important citizen is 70 :angryfire:
At least he is self isolating with his wife at home
 

doberman

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
Joined
Mar 2, 2012
Messages
1,947
I think this varies wildly across the state. We have observed very few people wearing masks on the super crowded boardwalks at the Jersey Shore (Monmouth County) and on the beaches which are packed with people.

My prediction is are numbers will increase. I hope fervently I am wrong. Sadly though I think we will be seeing an increase in the infection rate in NJ in the coming weeks/months. Time will tell. By no means is mask wearing and social distancing a universal action here in NJ. Not from our observations.
Well I'm not going to the shore then, that's for sure. But up where I am (right near our fearless leader's summer house) everyone is wearing masks. I think there may be socioeconomic factors at work here. Those with higher education and income tend to wear masks more frequently than others, our fearless leader notwithstanding.
 
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