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Starting to get *REALLY* frustrated with my first ER purchase (Vatche, IDJ)

Discussion in 'RockyTalky' started by DiamondDense, Oct 11, 2018.

  1. DiamondDense
    Shiny_Rock

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    by DiamondDense » Oct 12, 2018
    i am definitely going to call Vatche directly and get his explanation.

    if he never had the ER in-hand, then that's a whole other issue. if he DID have the ER in-hand, i am very curious why he was unable to get them to match.
     
  2. Karl_K
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    by Karl_K » Oct 12, 2018
    Rings are an optical medium, how it looks is more important than being the exact mm width relationship.
    Sometimes they go hand in hand, sometimes they don't.
    No caliper needed.
     
  3. DiamondDense
    Shiny_Rock

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    by DiamondDense » Oct 12, 2018
    curious what your thoughts are in this specific case. do i have the right to be frustrated? what would you approach here be?
     
  4. SimoneDi
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    by SimoneDi » Oct 12, 2018
    You do have the right to be frustrated. People purchase a “matching” wedding band in order to match the e-ring. My only concern is that they were not able to get it right 2 times and because of that, I am not sure if they will be able to deliver even if they are to redo it another time.
     
  5. sledge
    Brilliant_Rock

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    by sledge » Oct 12, 2018
    This is a slippery slope. Technically IDJ didn't make the ring, but as the "middle man" they took on the liability and were entrusted to bring the customer's vision to life. They are professionals that can and should anticipate these sorts of minor issues. Additionally, whatever price the OP paid for the ring had cost & profit built into to handle the entire transaction and all coordination needed to deliver a final product.

    So IMO, this is just as much IDJ's problem as it is Vatche's.

    What bothers me (on behalf of the OP) is that IDJ should have known the ring had to be widened to accommodate the oval stone. So even if the OP wasn't explicit they wanted a perfect matching wedding band, IDJ should have had the experience and expertise to pick up on this detail from the get go and not have delivered a product that didn't truly match. At the very least, a conversation should have occurred so IDJ would have be clear in how to proceed (standard Vatche matching band vs custom made to match the existing ER).

    Regardless, we can chalk that up to communication issues. The second go round, the OP was very clear about their desires. It doesn't matter if it's a width, height or handmade issue. The expectation was clearly stated. If the rings matched width-wise and this is indeed an optical illusion due to height, then again IDJ should have been savvy enough to understand this wouldn't be acceptable to the OP and make them aware of the issue and ask how to proceed instead of just returning and hoping it would be okay.

    I understand Vatche is the one doing the bench work, but IDJ is the one ultimately approving the bench work. I am certain IDJ is frustrated too as Vatche is making their life difficult, but again, it doesn't dismiss the fact they knew they had to play supervisor and coordinate details like this.

    While some of this may sound harsh, I want to be clear I don't think IDJ is trying to dodge their responsibility in the matter. Anytime more entities and coordination is required, the odds of getting something goofed up increases. Knowing that should be a clear indicator more attention to details needs to be given to ensure a happy customer.
     
  6. sledge
    Brilliant_Rock

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    by sledge » Oct 12, 2018
    Wise words right here. If you can just start fresh, it may be a better option as long as you are made whole on the dollar aspect.
     
  7. Karl_K
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    by Karl_K » Oct 12, 2018
    Being in the trade I can not comment on the vendor.
    Yes ,you have the right to frustrated.
    The number one thing is to decide what outcome would make you happy?
    Then communicate that with your vendor in a clear manner.
    I would be very surprised if anyone at Vatche would talk to you directly, more than likely they will tell to go through your dealer.
     
  8. lovedogs
    Ideal_Rock

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    by lovedogs » Oct 12, 2018
    IMHO this seems like an issue with Vatche, but IDJ (as the vendor you worked with), should be able to fix it to your satisfaction. I personally would have it remade with IDJ and remove Vatche from the equation entirely. Seems like the issue is mostly with them, and I'm not sure how much more IDJ can do if Vatche can't make the ring match (which is super frustrating, BTW).
     
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  9. Blingalingaling
    Shiny_Rock

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    by Blingalingaling » Oct 12, 2018
    At this point, they should measure your e-ring and match the band, spec for spec. Maybe they should even send your e-ring back to Vatche to ensure that the two rings will be the same. If they made a custom ring for your oval stone, then they should now make a custom wedding band to match. That's what they should have done in the first place, and if that meant you needed to pay more than the price of the stock piece, then that should have been communicated to you up front. At this point, I do not think you should have to pay a dollar more. This was not your mistake. Were you charged for "custom" when they made the setting for your oval cut e-ring? If not, and it doesn't sound like you were, then they should not charge a custom price for the matching wedding band.
    If it means making the shank wider, taller, making the stones bigger; no matter what they need to do to make the two rings identical, that's their issue. IDJ should insist that they make you a new ring, expeditiously, and make absolutely sure that the two rings line up as a matched set, in good faith, as I'm sure they appreciate your business and want you and your wife to be happy.
    @sledge makes a good point about the profit having been built into the cost of the original order. But this was a mistake that either IDJ made upon ordering the wedding band or a mistake that Vatche made in production (maybe they didn't reference your original order, for example, when they filled the second one). Things happen, but you're the customer and you should be satisfied. You're not being unreasonable.
    At the very least, you should have been told in advance that your wedding band would be smaller, in that it would be a stock piece and not custom (or semi-custom, etc.).
    My two cents.
     
  10. Acinom
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    by Acinom » Oct 12, 2018
    Oww, how frustrating. To my eyes the width and the heighth are different and the stones seems to be of a different size. I hope IDJ can solve the matter.

    However, every ring maker has a certain ‘style’. The question is whether IDJ can replicate the Vatche craftmanship... I mean even Vatche was in this case unable to replicate their own craftmanship.
    Discuss with Yekutiel whether the two rings would have to be remade...

    Hope this matter will be solved quickly.
     
  11. DiamondDense
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    by DiamondDense » Oct 12, 2018
    i agree. i think it's way more than just the height of the ring. to me it looks like it's width and stone size as well.

    that is my other concern with having IDJ "custom" make the ring.

    i am unsure how nice/well-regarded their custom made bands are. i was in their showroom and noticed some of the bands in the case were labeled "Made in China". not that that necessarily means anything but does anyone know if Yekutiel actually has someone in house make the rings or are they licensed out?
     
  12. cflutist
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    by cflutist » Oct 12, 2018
    I don't wear these Vatche rings anymore but at the time I ordered both 1514 and 1541.

    20171116_094823.jpg
     
  13. Wewechew
    Brilliant_Rock

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    by Wewechew » Oct 12, 2018
    Your rings look to be the same thickness.
     
  14. The Stig
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    by The Stig » Oct 12, 2018
    See my posts. I had IDJ custom make my SO’s eRing, and they hit a home run imo. I believe they use a specific bench, but CAD should be more precise in achieving the perfect match over hand forged.
     
  15. LLJsmom
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    by LLJsmom » Oct 12, 2018
    The problem when you order from a big company. I would be sick of the fight and wouldn’t trust vatche anyway. If you are set on a perfect match I would try IDJ custom. And you would likely have to pay. I think it’s fair to pay. IDJ shouldn’t have to work for free. Vatche just really messed this up.
     
  16. HappyNewLife
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    by HappyNewLife » Oct 12, 2018
    It almost looks like an optical illusion that the wedding band is thinner, because it is lower to her finger, and therefore looks narrower. While the ER is thicker, sits higher and looks bigger as it's closer to the eye. (I may have that backwards, I can't remember now which one is which). I'd absolutely want them to match. I'm sorry, that sucks
     
  17. LaylaR
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    by LaylaR » Oct 12, 2018
    In a general sense, when we are making a matching band for an engagement ring, even if we have the CAD of the original, our craftsmen prefer to have the actual engagement ring to make sure the band is a perfect match.

    Perhaps, since you are newlyweds they didn't want to ask you to send your engagement ring in and be without it at such an important time?
     
  18. peacechick
    Brilliant_Rock

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    by peacechick » Oct 12, 2018
    But that’s the thing, IDJ took OP’s ring for two months while the band was remade so his wife was indeed without any rings to show anyone at this important time as a newlywed. Why would you take someone’s engagement ring and not use it as a reference?
     
  19. lovedogs
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    by lovedogs » Oct 12, 2018
    I thought IDJ didn't make it though--Vatche did. So in that case, it isn't IDJs fault that Vatche messed up, right? Obviously since IDJ is the vendor they need to help OP make it right, but I think they will if they are allowed to make it themselves.
     
  20. peacechick
    Brilliant_Rock

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    by peacechick » Oct 12, 2018
    I was just responding to LaylaR’s comment that they may not have asked for the e-ring to say that OP in fact did drop off his ring with IDJ and was without it for two months.

    The question is whether Vatche had the e-ring as a reference while remaking the band. If not, then it was essentially useless for IDJ to hold on to the e-ring when OP’s wife could have been wearing it. As several people have pointed out, it is an important time so it was a sacrifice that contributed to the current unhappiness.
     
  21. lovedogs
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    by lovedogs » Oct 12, 2018
    Gotcha. Yeah, that does make complete sense.
     
  22. LetLoveRule
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    by LetLoveRule » Oct 13, 2018
    I'm sorry the both of you are going through this while you should be enjoying this wonderful new chapter in your lives.

    You are absolutely right wanting the bands to match. It would drive me crazy looking at non matching rings all day, which is very obvious from your photos.

    Personally I would buy a digital caliper to see if you can pinpoint what the difference is, the width, height, size diamonds or even all three? Not that you need more proof but it would give me peace of mind as knowledge is power.

    I also wonder why they didn't inform you that the ER would have to be custom made due to the center stone. I'm sure that you would've been more prepared if you were aware. Hopefully you're able to find a solution soon, may it be a third try, IDJ making the matching band or starting over altogether.

    Nonetheless, it's a gorgeous set of rings and I really hope your wife can enjoy them for many years to come.
     
  23. sledge
    Brilliant_Rock

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    by sledge » Oct 13, 2018
    Exactly. OP did his part correctly. IDJ & Vatche dropped the ball. Not to mention taking 2 months to re-make a simple wedding band. Where was the sense of urgency? :confused2:

    You know the original E-ring set on a shelf (or in a vault) the bulk of that time, while other orders were fulfilled. Ugh.


    Yes, it's still IDJ's fault.

    I understand they didn't physically make the piece; however, they have a responsibility to provide all coordination and quality control checks required to ensure the customer gets exactly what they want and was agreed upon and what the customer paid to receive.

    Had proper communication, coordination and QC measures went into the first ring then the OP would have never received a ring that didn't match. That's on both IDJ and Vatche. Vatche is the bench doing the work, but if IDJ failed to communicate the E-ring was custom, etc then in a sense Vatche did things exactly right and the problem was bad communication by IDJ.

    The other option is IDJ communicated properly to Vatche and for whatever reason Vatche ignored to listen and made the ring to their normal standards. However, when IDJ got the ring they should have done a QC inspection and noticed the problem and never let it go to the OP in the first place. Instead IDJ should have rejected the order from Vatche, cited why and demanded Vatche prioritize a re-make as their customer is now having to wait longer than promised because of no fault other than Vatche.

    But that apparently didn't happen. IDJ sent the ring to the customer either knowing it wasn't right, or because they failed to QC check the product prior to sending. Either option is bad and resulted in the same net effect: the customer was unhappy and asked IDJ to fix the problem and surrendered the E-ring during a sentimentally important time.

    Now on the 2nd go round, you'd think both IDJ and Vatche would be aware one or both of them goofed up and that additional measures would be taken to prevent it from happening again. Nope. Here comes another defunct product. Again, due to the same set of potential reasons as already mentioned. Also, IMO, neither party did the OP a favor by taking 2 months to re-make a simple wedding ring that at best semi-custom. No additional QC checks, etc.

    So here we are now. Two times and it's still not right. And it doesn't matter if it's an actual width, height or optical illusion. If the widths are identical on a set of calibrated digital calipers then IDJ and/or Vatche should have picked up the phone and talked to the customer and explained the situation and asked what the OP wanted. That didn't happen either -- again, more communication & coordination errors.

    While I agree that having the ring custom made may resolve the issue, it seems absolutely ridiculous that a major ring maker like Vatche can't get this right. By circumventing Vatche, you are saying they are incapable of properly making their standard product. This seems unlikely, and I'd bet money on communication & coordination issues instead.
     
  24. mrs-b
    Ideal_Rock

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    by mrs-b » Oct 13, 2018
    I'm not a fan of matchy-matchy sets. I like the oh-so-slight disparity.

    I think they look great.
     
  25. AprilBaby
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    by AprilBaby » Oct 13, 2018
    They look the same but the ering looks to be a slightly larger size, ie: one is size x and the other is x1/4
     
  26. LaylaR
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    by LaylaR » Oct 15, 2018 at 12:35 AM
    Thank you for the correction. I missed that detail.
     
  27. Lovesparklesparle
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    by Lovesparklesparle » Oct 15, 2018 at 6:59 AM
    I’m in the minority but I actually prefer the look/illusion/whatever is happening of the different thicknesses. My set is the inverse though- the wedding band is slightly heavier with slightly larger stones.

    I think it looks lovely.
     
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  28. DiamondDense
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    by DiamondDense » Oct 15, 2018 at 8:31 AM
    we would be fine if the band was thicker than the ER - as many prefer and order their sets like that and we think it makes sense.

    the other way around not so much.
     
  29. sledge
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    by sledge » Oct 15, 2018 at 11:01 AM
    Whatever you decide is fine. But I am curious if you have an update to share with us.
     
  30. DiamondDense
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    by DiamondDense » Oct 15, 2018 at 11:56 AM
    i do have another **UPDATE**

    i spoke directly with one of Vatche's folks. initially they told me to drop the ER and band off again with IDJ. my response was that i had already done that and we weren't willing to do it again plus what exactly would change? then my question was whether or not IDJ actually gave the ER to Vatche so they could match it exactly and i was told "i think so". i told Vatche i wanted to email them some photos (the same ones posted here) to show them the difference. the response, via email, was that the ER looks thicker because of the way it's set and they'd have to gauge it to be sure re: size difference. additionally, they told me to bypass IDJ and come straight to Vatche in NYC. unfortunately they are only open M-F during typical work hours so i will need to use PTO in order to go there which is a bummer.

    at any rate, they promised that they will do whatever they can to make us happy. so right now we are both looking at days we can take off and head into the city to meet with them live.
     
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