start of another article- industry and consumer input welcome.

[strmrdr]

"All we want is awesome diamonds at reasonable prices with great customer service from someone we can trust.

Is that too hard for the industry to do?"

What im looking for is examples of jewelers who live up to that and of those that dont from consumers.
Names do not have to be given.

the industry - why do so many have an attitude problem with delivering that?

 

[oldminer]

Over time, nearly every retail seller gets an attitude about the public. Diamond dealers, over time, develop attitudes about retailers who they sell or memo to. No doubt, cutters gain a certain attitude with their supervisors, over time.

Time changes us. It changes how we think and react. When we discover we have become tired of certain things only a very few have any choice but to soldier on. This makes for bad attitudes.

It is very rare that an experienced business person does not have certain developed attitides about those they have done business with for many years. I think it is human nature, not a fault or a weakness necessarily, but something we need to recognize and work on daily in order to enter each transaction with a degree of optimisim, a smile and our "attitude" pretty well concealed.

When we really burn out, we ought to get out.....

There are some experienced vendors right here on Pricescope who are really excellent examples of long time seller who provide great diamonds at super prices with little evidence of an attitude. No doubt, there are many B&M retailers who are super folks every day, no matter what they feel like.

It would be great to have a list of those who made someone's purchase a real pleasure. Hopefully, you'll get some good responses.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Storm YOU are the greatest variable.
You the consumer.

Some of you want to buy from a store in a fashionable street / district where the landlord wants 20% of the action.
Some of you want your jeweler to spend 10% of the purchase price on advertising.
Some of you want to find a person up some grimy staircase who professes to be a wholesaler.

If the shopper is you however, it is likely you want the service of a person who only wishes to communicate with you by email and is happy to answer a million questions. Not many people would like you as a client.

I guess the answer to your question is that consumers are PEOPLE, and sellers are PEOPLE.

We hope the right people can find each other.

 

[belle]

Date: 6/24/2005 5:05:45 PM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)
Some of you want to buy from a store in a fashionable street / district where the landlord wants 20% of the action.
Some of you want your jeweler to spend 10% of the purchase price on advertising.
Some of you want to find a person up some grimy staircase who professes to be a wholesaler.

yet all that really matters is that we get an honest product for an honest price. i''ll go anywhere for that.

(and a nice pint o'' guiness

)

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Date: 6/24/2005 5:14:16 PM
Author: belle

Date: 6/24/2005 5:05:45 PM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)
Some of you want to buy from a store in a fashionable street / district where the landlord wants 20% of the action.
Some of you want your jeweler to spend 10% of the purchase price on advertising.
Some of you want to find a person up some grimy staircase who professes to be a wholesaler.

yet all that really matters is that we get an honest product for an honest price. i''ll go anywhere for that.

(and a nice pint o'' guiness

)

Tiffany do that (but without the grog)

 

[belle]

Date: 6/24/2005 5:16:51 PM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)

Date: 6/24/2005 5:14:16 PM
Author: belle

Date: 6/24/2005 5:05:45 PM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)
Some of you want to buy from a store in a fashionable street / district where the landlord wants 20% of the action.
Some of you want your jeweler to spend 10% of the purchase price on advertising.
Some of you want to find a person up some grimy staircase who professes to be a wholesaler.

yet all that really matters is that we get an honest product for an honest price. i''ll go anywhere for that.

(and a nice pint o'' guiness

)

Tiffany do that (but without the grog)

too bad...with enough of it, i might actually be persuaded to buy something from there!

 

[valeria101]

Date: 6/24/2005 12:46:44 PM
Author: oldminer

Over time, nearly every retail seller gets an attitude about the public.

There is a bit of customer venting on the forum... how about the other way around ? Would anyone find it funny to tell the story of some customers from Hell ?

Maybe without names, since there is no BB''B (Better Buyer Bureau) to record them. It may help reduce numbers, who knows...

Just a thought.

Garry, I love your wicked-good four line summary of the situation ! Thank goodness for Pricescope - otherwise all those posts of mine would have been compensated by ten times more peskering shop keepers around town ...

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 6/24/2005 6:27:35 PM
Author: crankydave

Date: 6/24/2005 11:44:40 AM

Author:strmrdr

'All we want is awesome diamonds at reasonable prices with great customer service from someone we can trust.


Is that too hard for the industry to do?'

Propose a business model that meets your criteria for 'awesome', 'reasonable', 'great' and 'trust'. Might be fun. Make it bare bones.


Define....


Product- Whatever details you would require as a consumer.


Presence- Internet, B&M, Mall, any or all of the above.


Marketing- As you see fit


Staff- What staff you'd require. Cutters? Sales? Appraisers? Jewelers for a shop? etc.


Audience- What will be your target consumer.


Bottom line- Profit


Dave

kinda off topic for this thread but that does sound like a fun exercise.
I will see what I can do this weekend and post it.
.........

Some very good stuff posted so far.
Thanks!

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Strom I should add that it is a great thought provoking question, and my comments could be taken to be an attack on you from those who do not know us both - they were not folks.

But as Cranky Dave has ellaborated - there are many different was to buy and to sell a diamond - and different people choose different channels. both those buying and those selling make these choices. Over time I expect we will see some merging of some of the channles.

But meantime Storm is part of a new breed of consumer that Leonid has labelled a Prosumer. A Prosumer can influence many thousands of purchasing decisions on a board like this.

Valeria is another Prosumer, and Belle. In old marketing terms they were considered peer leadres and may have influenced a group of a dozen friends and associates - but today on the web they have far more influence - so their recomendations can make the provision of huge amounts of data on diamonds very important for that niche of buyers who seek out or are happy with their recomendations. They are the new oreder of critics who tell us which movies and restaurants to go to.

 

[strmrdr]

You raised some great points in your posts Garry and I didnt take it as an attack.
Its kewl.

This thread and the article isnt supposed to be about me however.

Hopefully I can get some consumer experences posted to round it out.

 

[Slykat12]

Storm said :What im looking for is examples of jewelers who live up to that and of those that dont from consumers.
Names do not have to be given.
To me a good jeweler listens to what the client wants and either provides it to the client or tells them they simply don''t have what they are looking for but will keep an eye open. They can offer to show them what they have as well. But they always remember what the persons preferences are.

A bad jeweler pushes what they have in stock with full disregard for the clients desires and insults the client for having those desires. - For example in the La Jewerly I was made to feel ridiculous because I passed on a poorly cut IF stone. The shop keeper insisted it was the rarest in the world and I was nuts to want a vs2. I was also mocked by saying I would not mind some fluoro in my stone. Another time, I noticed asymmetry in a stone and said so and was told I was being to picky.
The worst was the bait and switch experiance! My bf took my preferences to the district and we thought we found a winner. I phoned to verify the specs and when I got there the stone specs changed!

The worst online venders I have dealt with ignored my requests for a cert or sarin.

 

[mmorrison]

successful jewelers: first step is to treat the consumer as if they are their #1 customer, regardless of the type of medium used to communicate.

that doesn''t mean you have to put up with complete jerks. oldminer hit on many good points that are true in business. the jerks who make a businessperson''s life miserable makes it hard on everyone else too. that''s why I like to see vendors take up for themselves.

also as dave pointed out "reasonable" is varied from person to person, but that''s the vendors job to determine what their customer feels is reasonable, and decide if they can help or not.

trust is going to come from word of mouth and personal experience. although in the eye of the consumer, great price comes with great responsibility! and simply because of the nature of this specific business, trust is unusually important. wedding rings, engagement rings, and a lot of money, oh boy

 

[Slykat12]

Every consumer wants a bargan but I don't mind paying for better service. Once on pricescope I called a more expensive vender and asked for a sarin I never got it. Just a tude about how I did not need it. I turned around and asked one of the cheapest venders on pricescope that had the same stone listed and he got it for me fast.

I understand oldminers opinion but what jewlers have to remember is every customer is an individual. For example I worked in a big city ER for 12 years. My job was to assess patients/clients for respiratory disorders and or failure. I noticed over the years that a certain race and socioeconomic status of women often pretended they were in respiratory distress. They often had the paramedics and doctors and me ready to put them on life support! Over time I saw my paramedic friends delevolpe a tude about this population. They thought they all these women were "acting" and sometimes took their time responding to these calls. That's a shame. IMHO thats bad practice-

In dealing with the public we all need to toss our prejudices out the window as each client is unique.

I am sure many pricescope venders thought I was a non buyer and put me in that catagory. That was not the case. I wanted what I wanted and nothing else thats all. I was told it did not exist several times. Well um it does. I got a better stone at a better price in a larger size than I ever imagined. It took just one vender to go out and do a search using MY preferances.

 

[strmrdr]

crankyone,
see here :}

https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/diamond-store-business-plan.30396/

 

[PhillipSchmidt]

Some great posts, still reading

 

[PhillipSchmidt]

Am I getting this right?

Don''t tell the customer that you have what they want if you don''t have it, or tell them that something doesn''t exist, when it does.

 

[PhillipSchmidt]

Morrison,

If you ask for what you want and you are told it is there; then that is what you have to get. There should be no question about that.

What people have to realise, is that the facilities to provide a customer with what they want comes at a cost.

There are dealers who provide a great service both cheaply and expensively - by service I mean, you get what you asked for.

I wonder about the fact that some PS members have been educated about what represents best value, only to develop an attitude - where others who are aimiably providing a good service, haven''t looked at diamonds in the same way.

As is so often mentioned here, different business structures work under different overheads, however, people are more likely influenced on word of mouth then a big sale. People want assurances. The way diamonds are sold here with the diamonds-appraiser-setter etc etc is one way of facilitating a diamond purchase and it is fun for some.

This is how you eliminate the middle man to access the wholesale mass-production market. In effect you create new middle men and add extra administration to the processes. IMO

Back to trust,
The faster we tell our customers that we are on their side, then the easier the business is - through to conception, and from which more business can come out of. Things go much easier when a mutual trust exists.

Myself in perspective. I can get pretty sensitive about what I am working on if I develop a deap relationsahip with the, say a design I am trying to capture in metal. Somebody wants the piece for whatever the purpose and I have to provide them with that. I have to also have to handle the piece to the best of my ability and there is a balance in that.

Some people have a lot of energy to do all the work neccessary for you to get the job done right and this is what you as a customer are invariably paying for. Price is not all that important as far as value is conrned, but it depends on what your buying/what you want and hopefully what you want, fits your budget.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

In the words of Mick:
"You caint always get what ya want, but ya gets what ya need."

Rarely does someone need what they first think they want.
The art of great service is to help people get what they really want, not what they only thought they wanted.

Some people when shopping think all sales people are out to get them and will fight not to be led where they might never go. Great salespeople open and broaden buyers horizons. But if you are a slick salesperson damaged soul, then you may fight the hand that wants to help. Really great salespeople can help even really damaged and jaded buyers.

 

[PhillipSchmidt]

Most jewellers will bend backwards for a good sale.

The other end of the market is where business is business and there are no personal attributes.

But what one expect to pay for personalised service?

 

[Slykat12]

Am I getting this right?

Don''t tell the customer that you have what they want if you don''t have it, or tell them that something doesn''t exist, when it does.

Platinumsmith
Um yes. You may not believe this but a very high profile dude in the LA District "cutter and appraisor i think" Mervin or somethin, told me no one cuts Marquise within the parameters I gave him. I see like 50 online now!

He also has a site mocking all internet venders saying you all don''t have the diamonds you claim. I told him I dealt with several of you and the stone advertised was always there!!

 

[PhillipSchmidt]

I was just posing a general rule.

I see what you mean when you are defending good service when there are others, not providing good service, who are on the attack and fighting dirty. Just moking, like you said. I think I have got a good radar for that sort of thing and I don''t pay much attention to it, although it is definately annoying.

I have heard them all and said some myself once or twice.

 

[chudilo]

I am one of those conumers severly damaged by bad sales people.
That is the reality of living in New York. There are 8-9 million people here.
Most more or less reasonably priced vendors do not care about return customers
and word of mouth for promoting them. Their prices is what gets people to come in.
Even if someone was unhappy with their purchase tomorrow someone else of the 8-9 million people will come in and fall for the same trick again.

I actually worked for a computer/electronics store (back in highschool)
What they did was: they would always "low-ball" all the most popular priducts.
Then when the customer comes in, most had no idea why the best stuff is best, thus they would convince them that lower grade things are actually better.

EX. Great Sony TV advertised bellow wholesale price. Customer walks in. Sees the so called best TV, with the colors all screwd up. Signal going through a bad antenna. Sharpness, contrast and tint all out of tune. Right next to it is some cheapo RCA or Sharp tuned to the best settings or even playing a DVD with the best possible picture, and with a price tag of about $50 or so less then the Sony. Uneducated customer practically always takes the bait. Mind you that the Cheaper RCA TV was never advertized. And the price that the customer is paying is well over what he/she could've paid if the have gone to one of the major-chain stores liek Best Buy. And this is only a TV. There are many more varaibles in a computer or a diamond. The only difference is that with elecronics these difference are finite. meanign if you do enough research you really CAN determine what's good and what's not. With a diamond it's more based on individual perseption. In adition not many people would benefit if the consumers were sudently interested in only the best diamonds, that's why what makes a diamond good or bad is such a secret. I mean what other industry have you seen where the employer would not tell his subordinates how do figure out ALL the intricasies of what makes a diamond great. (most say because those emplyees will one day be their competision)

going back to the issue at hand, Since having that job I have sworn to myself that I will NEVER make a major purchase without figuring out what makes an item good or bad for myself and without determining what I want to buy before going out to actually buy it.

To me diamonds are the exact same way. there are the 3C that everyone talks about and looks at. However those parameters have nothing to do with weather or not a dimond is good or bad. It only provides the consumer with a way of relating them together.
Meaning let's say in the TV world it would be something like screen diagonal(weight), types of inputs or resolution for HD sets(cut quality) and speaker power/quality (color). While all of these things do tell you what the TV will look like and be like. They say nothing about picture quality and sound quality. and yet most consumers, as it turns out, do not pay attention to most of those unsaid things when persuaded by a good salesperson. This persuation accounts for most of the profit, because the elsectronics buisness is so cutthroat that it leaves no room for any decent markup to even cover operating costs.

Yet with the internet, there are sites like www.resellerratings.com which allow individual customers to review how their purchase has gone at a particular vendor and allow other potential customers to read these opinions.
If you intened to leave a review, the site's engine requests an order number(so that only consumers that actually made a purchase are able to leave their opinion about the store). They also keep track of your IP adress so that the same person could not leave multiple reviews about the same store. (Als to prevent interested parties from rating themselves) they also check various other parameters to make sure that the people leaving the review is not afilliated with the vendor. And punish those who break the rules, by showing them as fraudulent vendors.

I think the jewelry industry could use something like that. Like you guys said it's all about the peoples personal opinions. What people want to see if how many peopel shopped at a particular vendor and how many of them were happy with the experience. This has the potential of putting all those crooks in the diamond district out of buisness as many people hate the shopping experience there and are even more unhappy when they get their purchases appraised. All we need is a centralized way of rating stores. sort of liek the things that rate restaurants on Zaggat and Citysearch.

 

[He Scores]

RE: "All we want is awesome diamonds at reasonable prices with great customer service from someone we can trust.

----------------------------------

I can echo what other industry people said here. You must remember that even those of us in the trade must pay premiums for "awesome diamonds" whether it''s polished or rough. One must set their priorities when purchasing.

I remember seeing a sign in a trade shop when I used to be on the road selling. I think it has some application to this thread. The sign read....

"Good quality"
"Fast Service"
"Low Price"

"Pick two out of the three"


Bill Bray
Diamond Cutter

"when it comes to diamonds, it pays to know the score"

 

[internallyflawless]

Sounds to me - a consumer in this situation is asking for 3 things:

great diamonds at a great price
great customer service
trust

Each item has a value - a consumer needs to decide how much they''re willing to pay for that value. My guess is there are plenty of etailers and retailers that can fill the requirements with very similar end result pricing.........

In summary, I concur with Gary H - people (buyers) will find people (sellers) that meet their needs and values....

Good discussion!