Square shapes and fire/brilliance

[smokey99]

Are some square shapes better for fire/brilliance than others? I know its dependant on the cut, but between Princess, cushion, ascher, and radiant does one stand out in this category over the others? I see that HOF/H&A princesses are very popular, but even within those special cuts there are differences in their cut specs. What is most preferred in that regard (table/depth/girdle, etc)? I want a stone that sizzles!

Thaks for your help, I tried searching but couldnt find exactly what I was looking for.

 

[StoopidMonkey]

If you want a square shape that has the same brilliance and fire as a round, then you need a square brilliant diamond (also known as square H&A). It's not a generic/standard shape like princess or radiant so you'll see them under many different brand names such as Princess of Hearts, Jubilee, and Quadex. I also understand that there are some square cushions that come close. Since most of these stones are branded, there is a consistency to them that should make obsessing over specs like table depth percentages, etc not as necessary as it is with generic rounds. That also means they'll cost more since they're a relatively new specialty cut. Run a search for "Princess of Hearts" on YouTube or Vimeo to see videos put out by Good Old Gold (perhaps under aliases such as "Rhino's School of Rock" or "Diamindinfoman"). You'll see these new diamonds side by side with regular princess cuts and you'll be amazed. Good luck!

 

[Gypsy]

Okay well.

First of all, there are HUGE personality differences in those cuts.

Radiants tend to be more 'crushed ice" in appearance.
Princesses have splintery facets and can have weak corners.
Cut Corner Modfied Squares (anything from a square radiant to the Princess of Hearts to the Quadex by BGD) it depends on the facetting pattern. Some, like the Jubilee are similar to the Lucida by Tiffany. Others are closer to the Hearts on FIre Dream cut (POH and Quadex)
Cushions come with MANY MANY different faceting paterns. Most divide the line between Antique Faceting and Modern Faceting, but you can have anything from a stepcut-mix cushion (Legacy) or one that looks like a radiant with curved corners.
And then there are the step cuts, asschers and emerald cuts which look like none of the above.

First you need to decide on a look, a personality. Then we can help you find the most 'ideal cut' (keeping in mind that with fancy's except for some patented super ideals and AGS0 princesses there are no agreed upon 'ideal' standards for fancies) stone that fits they look you want.

But you really need to start by shopping in real stores and looking at the different shapes and facet structures in real life. Where are you located? Maybe we can give you some browsing advice.

 

[slg47]

when I was shopping for my engagement diamond I found the videos by Rhino at GOG to be very informative. He has videos of many of the 'ideal' square shapes that you can use to compare/see what appeals most to you.

http://vimeo.com/diamondinfo

here is one comparison...if you search the above link (type in things like princess, radiant, jubilee, octavia, etc...) you should find lots more videos.
http://vimeo.com/11539863

I ended up with a square cushion H&A and could not be happier!

 

[Gypsy]

when I was shopping for my engagement diamond I found the videos by Rhino at GOG to be very informative. He has videos of many of the 'ideal' square shapes that you can use to compare/see what appeals most to you.

http://vimeo.com/diamondinfo

here is one comparison...if you search the above link (type in things like princess, radiant, jubilee, octavia, etc...) you should find lots more videos.
http://vimeo.com/11539863

I ended up with a square cushion H&A and could not be happier!

Great post!

Here's a good video that shows a nice modern cushion comparison. http://vimeo.com/11306211

http://vimeo.com/10936588 asschers and octavia.

http://vimeo.com/10265431 Modern versus Antique cushions

 

[marcy]

The videos will be a great help but I also agree going to see the different shapes in person will be a big help. I can't tell you the number of times I've picked out something online only to find out I don't like it in person.

 

[Gypsy]

The videos will be a great help but I also agree going to see the different shapes in person will be a big help. I can't tell you the number of times I've picked out something online only to find out I don't like it in person.

I know right! Or that it looks terrible on my hand.

 

[marcy]

The videos will be a great help but I also agree going to see the different shapes in person will be a big help. I can't tell you the number of times I've picked out something online only to find out I don't like it in person.

I know right! Or that it looks terrible on my hand.

Gypsy, 2 of my favorite rings I hated in the case but i tried them on because nothing else really worked. Trying on a ring really can make a difference.

 

[Amys Bling]

The videos will be a great help but I also agree going to see the different shapes in person will be a big help. I can't tell you the number of times I've picked out something online only to find out I don't like it in person.

I know right! Or that it looks terrible on my hand.

Gypsy, 2 of my favorite rings I hated in the case but i tried them on because nothing else really worked. Trying on a ring really can make a difference.

Couldn't agree more! You may love asschers but find that emerald cuts look better on your hand..

 

[smokey99]

Thanks for the great responses! The video's are especially helpful.

How about price? If I like the Princess H&A, Jubilee and Aschers- If all are ideal cut does one command a higher price than others for similar specs? Thanks again, this has been very helpful!

 

[smokey99]

I definitely like the look of the Jubilee cuts. I prefer the look over the standard Princess H&A and as a benefit (from reading the GOG website), it seems that you would get more surface area per weight as compared to the princess in addition to not having the possible issues with corner damage with a princess. Do these go by any other name? Who all sells these besides GOG?

Thanks !

 

[slg47]

I definitely like the look of the Jubilee cuts. I prefer the look over the standard Princess H&A and as a benefit (from reading the GOG website), it seems that you would get more surface area per weight as compared to the princess in addition to not having the possible issues with corner damage with a princess. Do these go by any other name? Who all sells these besides GOG?

Thanks !

I think GOG is the only one selling the jubilee...this is what I understood from when I was investigating into square shapes last year.

 

[kenny]

IMHO the square shape with the best fire and brilliance is the Octavia.
We bought one and continue to be blown away by its light performance even compared to a couple of the best-cut rounds, the Whiteflash ACA and the Solasfera.

They are sold by www.goodoldgold.com who is a wonderful vendor to deal with.

[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/pop-the-cork-i-just-bought-the-first-ocatvia.132337/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/pop-the-cork-i-just-bought-the-first-ocatvia.132337/[/URL]

 

[smokey99]

Definitely a beautiful cut (the Octavia). I actually really like ascher cuts but they certainly have a different look. The Octavias are gorgeous! BUT, they come with a premium price from the look of it. I think a square hearts and arrows like a jubilee is what I'll probably aim for. I'm going to end up with a budget of around $5K which will need to include the setting. I'd like something like this:

http://www.whiteflash.com/engagement-rings/diamond-settings/harmony-diamond-engagement-ring-878.htm

or this:
http://www.whiteflash.com/engagement-rings/diamond-settings/legato-micro-pave-diamond-engagement-ring-1011.htm


What kind of combo can I expect for this budget? I'm okay with going with a G/H color and a lower clarity as long as its eye clean. Most important thing to me is that it has ideal cut specs so it really sizzles

 

[slg47]

Definitely a beautiful cut (the Octavia). I actually really like ascher cuts but they certainly have a different look. The Octavias are gorgeous! BUT, they come with a premium price from the look of it. I think a square hearts and arrows like a jubilee is what I'll probably aim for. I'm going to end up with a budget of around $5K which will need to include the setting. I'd like something like this:

http://www.whiteflash.com/engagement-rings/diamond-settings/harmony-diamond-engagement-ring-878.htm

or this:
http://www.whiteflash.com/engagement-rings/diamond-settings/legato-micro-pave-diamond-engagement-ring-1011.htm


What kind of combo can I expect for this budget? I'm okay with going with a G/H color and a lower clarity as long as its eye clean. Most important thing to me is that it has ideal cut specs so it really sizzles

the jubilee, square cushion H&A, others also come with a similar premium... I would just pick your favorite.

some examples
http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamond/diamond-detail/?product_id=AGS-104049455005 I color but in budget
http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamond/diamond-detail/?product_id=AGS-104049790038 E color, slightly over budget, could be doable with a solitaire setting instead of a pave setting...and then you could always get a diamond wedding band
http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/7570/ ask if eye-clean
http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/8565/ I color

 

[kenny]

I think all branded cuts come with a premium since there is another mouth to feed, the owner of the brand.
Plus the "panache" of the brand may allow dealers to sell them at a higher profit margin than generic stones.
I strongly suspect this is what's going on with the uber-expensvie brands like Hearts on Fire, Tiffany Lucida, Royal Asscher and Eightstar.

Nothing wrong with that; I gladly paid the premium on all 3 branded cuts I bought.
Plus the Octavia takes a long time for a highly skilled cutter to cut.

IMHO, the premium is worth the assurance the stone met the standards of the brand.
That's worth something.

With a generic cut you are on your own, though today tools, like HCA Idealscope and ASET help.
Even with cut analysis tools and all the cut education in the world, you are not going to just bump into some generic asscher that happened to turn out like an Octavia.

 

[Gypsy]

IMHO the square shape with the best fire and brilliance is the Octavia.
We bought one and continue to be blown away by its light performance even compared to a couple of the best-cut rounds, the Whiteflash ACA and the Solasfera.

They are sold by www.goodoldgold.com who is a wonderful vendor to deal with.

[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/pop-the-cork-i-just-bought-the-first-ocatvia.132337/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/pop-the-cork-i-just-bought-the-first-ocatvia.132337/[/URL]

Kenny are you getting a commission? Seriously... you are starting to look like an Octavia shill. Your second post was great, but... you are constantly posting the same thing every time a square cut is mentioned. With a picture. It looks suspicious to ME, and I know you aren't on the take. I can't imagine what it looks like to the newbies.

 

[kenny]

No.
That would break PS rules.
I've been banned so many times I'm careful to follow the rules.

Chances are, newbies see only one post.

I'm sorry it's repetitive to us "oldbies".
You are free to post your personal experience with a cut you bought and love too.

 

[Cehrabehra]

Kenny is emphatic about what he eats for breakfast, Combine that with something he's passionate about... He's singing and dancing in the rain!

 

[katushka]

When I look at the photos of the two Octavias on GOG's site, they don't thrill me...but Kenny's shots (especially the one in this thread) make me want one very badly!

 

[pregcurious]

Even thought the Octavia faces up relatively small for it's carat weight, I have to admit that Kenny's pictures sell me on it.

 

[slg47]

Even thought the Octavia faces up relatively small for it's carat weight, I have to admit that Kenny's pictures sell me on it.

faceup seems pretty good for square?

 

[StoopidMonkey]

When I look at the photos of the two Octavias on GOG's site, they don't thrill me...but Kenny's shots (especially the one in this thread) make me want one very badly!

I would take a look at the hi-def videos he's posted on Vimeo and YouTube. It's the next bext thing to seeing them in person. While the graphic Kenny posted is indeed beautiful, I determined by seeing the videos that the Octavia just isn't what I'm looking for. You have to see how a diamond looks in real-world lighting conditions (such as "office light" and sunlight) as well as some spotlighting to see how it would sparkle under certian situations. Much like the radiants, the Octavias just look too "crunchy" to me. Must be all the raised levels and tiny facets. Square brillians like Princess of Hearts and Jublilees are my favorites so far (PoH moreso because of its straighter lines and "square-er" shape). The faceting just appeals to me more and I like how the larger flat tables look.

 

[smokey99]

When I look at the photos of the two Octavias on GOG's site, they don't thrill me...but Kenny's shots (especially the one in this thread) make me want one very badly!

I would take a look at the hi-def videos he's posted on Vimeo and YouTube. It's the next bext thing to seeing them in person. While the graphic Kenny posted is indeed beautiful, I determined by seeing the videos that the Octavia just isn't what I'm looking for. You have to see how a diamond looks in real-world lighting conditions (such as "office light" and sunlight) as well as some spotlighting to see how it would sparkle under certian situations. Much like the radiants, the Octavias just look too "crunchy" to me. Must be all the raised levels and tiny facets. Square brillians like Princess of Hearts and Jublilees are my favorites so far (PoH moreso because of its straighter lines and "square-er" shape). The faceting just appeals to me more and I like how the larger flat tables look.

I totally agree. The H&A squares and Jubilees are really what I think Im looking for. I like the larger facets and chunks of reflected light as opposed to the many very small ones that you see in the Octavia. All preference I guess

Those videos are excellent btw.

 

[StoopidMonkey]

I totally agree. The H&A squares and Jubilees are really what I think Im looking for. I like the larger facets and chunks of reflected light as opposed to the many very small ones that you see in the Octavia. All preference I guess

Those videos are excellent btw.

I hear ya. I was originally looking for a well-cut princess but when I saw those videos I just fell in love. You should email Good Old Gold sometime as their support staff is very friendly and helpful. I've bought from them before. I will suggest that you look at Princess of Hearts over Jublilee because while they are both magnificent stones, I've heard that the Jubes are not as consistent in their cuts as the PoH's are, so there's a higher likelihood that whatever they order for you (all square H&A's are special order apparently since it's a niche item at the moment) will have stellar optics. A final point, in case mining ethics and country of origin is a concern, is they told me all the new PoH diamonds are coming in from Canada now with certifications in tow. Not bad, huh?

 

[smokey99]

I totally agree. The H&A squares and Jubilees are really what I think Im looking for. I like the larger facets and chunks of reflected light as opposed to the many very small ones that you see in the Octavia. All preference I guess

Those videos are excellent btw.

I hear ya. I was originally looking for a well-cut princess but when I saw those videos I just fell in love. You should email Good Old Gold sometime as their support staff is very friendly and helpful. I've bought from them before. I will suggest that you look at Princess of Hearts over Jublilee because while they are both magnificent stones, I've heard that the Jubes are not as consistent in their cuts as the PoH's are, so there's a higher likelihood that whatever they order for you (all square H&A's are special order apparently since it's a niche item at the moment) will have stellar optics. A final point, in case mining ethics and country of origin is a concern, is they told me all the new PoH diamonds are coming in from Canada now with certifications in tow. Not bad, huh?

Excellent SM, thanks !!