Split Claw Safety with 1+ct asschers?

[indecisive]

We are getting our ring through WF and they told us that they advise everyone with an asscher over 1ct that they will most likely have problems with it. I know I have seen a lot of asschers in split claw prongs (my favorite style by far) but I don''t want to have to worry about losing my gorgeous diamond!! Does anyone have any more information about this? Thanks!!

 

[mrssalvo]

You can type in split prongs or claw prongs and some old threads will pop up. I know Harry Winston, Leon Mege, and daniel k do them on large stones all the time. Here is a link where Richard Sherwood chimes in on the safety. He saids if they are plat. they should bend and not break and be fine, regular check-ups are a good idea though..

 

[mrssalvo]

oops double post

 

[Kaleigh]

Really?? That''s news to me. I have seen a ton of asschers over a carat done with split claw prongs. They are my fav too. I think if done properly they would be fine, but I''m no expert. Doesn''t Leon Mege do them on asschers??

 

[RockDoc]

Safety in setting an Asscher.

In any areas where there is a "point" it is wise to cover with a prong, but if the cut corner is wider than the prongs could be made ( maybe in larger type stones ) then WF''s suggestion is good advice.

Rockdoc

 

[mrssalvo]

Date: 3/24/2006 3:13:13 PM
Author: RockDoc
Safety in setting an Asscher.


In any areas where there is a 'point' it is wise to cover with a prong, but if the cut corner is wider than the prongs could be made ( maybe in larger type stones ) then WF's suggestion is good advice.


Rockdoc

Rocdoc, I'm a little confused

So, is this not a safe setting for an asscher? does the metal, i.e WG or plat. make a difference?

ETA: this one is 3 carats..

 

[indecisive]

I am confused too. I have seen SO many asschers (mostly huge ones) with a split claw setting. WF said they would do it for us if that is what we wanted but they just wanted to warn us, so I trying to weigh the risks with how much I love the look. We will be doing it in platinum (thanks to WFs reasonable prices!), so that may help me feel better about it. How much would a jeweler (that you did not purchase the ring from) charge to check the prongs every 6 months?

 

[sanfranciscoellen]

I''m totally baffled why two prongs on each corner would be less secure than one?

 

[Mara]

what i got from RD's post is that the huge clipped corners on some 'asschers', even maybe in that picture you posted mrs salvo, if the cut/flat part whre the prongs are, is wider than the prongs are, then there would be some protruding points on either end of the prongs where the stone goes into a point, maybe knocking on those points is not the safest thing? in that actual picture you posted, see how the clipped flat part goes past the prongs and then makes a point as it turns the corner? i would imagine that those exposed points (2 on each corner, so 8 total) could over time take some knocks and maybe chips.

also with claw prongs there is space between the two prongs so maybe that somehow lessens the durability of the metal? hard to say...i have discovered as have many of us here that things are often not as cut and dry as we customers would think.

indecisive can you ask WF why they would advise that, aka get more specific with the details?

 

[mrssalvo]

Date: 3/24/2006 8:59:32 PM
Author: Mara
what i got from RD''s post is that the huge clipped corners on some ''asschers'', even maybe in that picture you posted mrs salvo, if the cut/flat part whre the prongs are, is wider than the prongs are, then there would be some protruding points on either end of the prongs where the stone goes into a point, maybe knocking on those points is not the safest thing? in that actual picture you posted, see how the clipped flat part goes past the prongs and then makes a point as it turns the corner? i would imagine that those exposed points (2 on each corner, so 8 total) could over time take some knocks and maybe chips.


also with claw prongs there is space between the two prongs so maybe that somehow lessens the durability of the metal? hard to say...i have discovered as have many of us here that things are often not as cut and dry as we customers would think.


indecisive can you ask WF why they would advise that, aka get more specific with the details?

Thanks mara, that makes sense. I''d be curious for more specific details as well. Especially since so many designers seem to do it

 

[indecisive]

They said that they saw problems with the asschers becoming loose or falling out, not getting chipped. I really do trust them and I am not trying to question their judgment. They have seen way more than I have! I just know that they are a little more conservative about safety than a lot of other places (not going below 2.5mm,etc), which can be a good thing! I would rather know there are problems going into something than loose my stone and not have any warning. I had just never heard of it before, but my bf thinks they said it was because there was less support with the split claw, but his memory is really bad. It probably has to do with the durability of the metal like you said. Also, I just wanted to say WF has been amazing to work with!! They definitely take care of you and really care about the finished product

 

[strmrdr]

Iv seen some from the 1920s-1930s in person.
no chips and the diamond hasn''t fallen out either and they were well over a ct.
Properly made they should last a lifetime

 

[MacClure]

storm.......i sure hope that is true. i''d like the single prong, so as to see the shape of the asscher.

 

[mrssalvo]

Date: 3/24/2006 10:21:03 PM
Author: TierHog
storm.......i sure hope that is true. i'd like the single prong, so as to see the shape of the asscher.

TH. looks like you're back to needing a good platinumsmith

ETA: joking with TH about discussion in his other thread regarding his future wifey's setting..

 

[strmrdr]

let me put it this way.. if I could scrape the money together tomorrow for 2ct asscher for my wifey2b it would be set in a double claw prong setting with a narrow pave band aka 1922 cartier in plat.
I would have no more worries about the setting than any other... check it with a loupe every few months and clean it once in a while.
Im pretty confident properly done it would last her a lifetime.

Iv seen a lot of old ones, oec, cushions and asschers in claw prongs both single and double that have lasted decades in gold and plat.

 

[MacClure]

well, i''m goin'' for what i want...lol....like you said ''storm'', check it regularly, loupe it....i''ve got my loupe ready for any asscher...royal or not.

 

[mepearl53]

We have sold hundreds of claw or split prong rings and security has never been a issue.

 

[indecisive]

Does anyone know about how much would a jeweler (that you did not purchase the ring from) would charge to check the prongs every 6 months and clean the ring,etc?

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 3/25/2006 10:21:37 AM
Author: mepearl53
We have sold hundreds of claw or split prong rings and security has never been a issue.

Where they cast, stamped, or made from wire?
Thinking about this im wondering if there would be big issues with cast claws/split prongs?
All of the old ones iv seen were not cast.

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 3/25/2006 10:52:05 AM
Author: indecisive
Does anyone know about how much would a jeweler (that you did not purchase the ring from) would charge to check the prongs every 6 months and clean the ring,etc?

Most will do a simple U.S., steam and visual inspection for free.
One localy I know of that charges $20 and he usualy waves it if you wait while he does it and look around.
People that run in drop it off and do the same when they pick it up usualy get charged.

 

[mrssalvo]

Date: 3/25/2006 10:52:13 AM
Author: strmrdr

Date: 3/25/2006 10:21:37 AM

Author: mepearl53

We have sold hundreds of claw or split prong rings and security has never been a issue.

Where they cast, stamped, or made from wire?

Thinking about this im wondering if there would be big issues with cast claws/split prongs?

All of the old ones iv seen were not cast.

Great question storm. I''m curious as to the answer as well.

 

[Mara]

Personally I don''t think there''d be a huge deal on putting a large asscher into a setting like that, but possibly they just want to cover their bases. I do love the old ones I have seen, but then again I think from all the pave issues we have around here and then people going ''oh but some ring from 1905 had pave and it still looks great'' that worksmanship or how the piece is made may have something to do with modern vs old.

 

[JohnQuixote]

Apologies for any confusion, Indecisive. You're right - we do err on the conservative side with advice - but we’re not against split prongs in general.

In your case I see another head was discussed; a square prong Tiffany style, which is die struck. That head would be too skinny to split and the split prong head would be cast. By comparison it won't be as strong as die struck, but it can be made completely safe - especially in platinum. It’s no problem, it’s just more money.

Split prongs are delicate and more susceptible to being pulled up (if caught on fabric for instance) but every person and every piece created is different. One person might wear a ring for 100 years with no incidents but someone else could have a completely different experience with the same ring. We like to keep our customers fully informed. We will do what you like, with pleasure.

 

[valeria101]

Date: 3/25/2006 4:11:18 PM
Author: JohnQuixote



In your case I see another head was discussed; a square prong Tiffany style, which is die struck. That head would be too skinny to split .

Aha! That makes sense...

The cute split prong settings (at Mege, and Winston...) are baskets, with some support (that transverse bar) between the prongs, so really the flimsy double claws are very short - only the length from the support to tip counts - and this makes them hard to bend. The Tiffany stile settings have tall prongs... so those can''t be thin or else.

Among the settings at WF, I wonder if the U-prong is not the closest thing one ca dream of to the desired description - Tiffany style ring head and split claw prongs. All it would take is making the ends of the double prongs in the ''U'' setting pointy - as much as I can tell.

 

[indecisive]

Hmmm, maybe there has been a little confusion. We did ask if there was any setting,not just the modified tiffany, that it would be safe with and were told that it was the size of the diamond that was causing the problem with split claw. We were told that you would make what we wanted no matter what,you just wanted us to be informed and I really appreciate it. We were just trying to weigh the risks, because like you said there are risks. This post was in no way trying to get negative press for WF or your work, as I have been very impressed with everything.

 

[strmrdr]

Val, I like that setting you posted for asschers.
Like it even better without the surprise diamond so the pavilion is open.
I think you have an image of one like that, that you posted in another thread.

 

[mepearl53]

Date: 3/25/2006 10:52:13 AM
Author: strmrdr

Date: 3/25/2006 10:21:37 AM
Author: mepearl53
We have sold hundreds of claw or split prong rings and security has never been a issue.

Where they cast, stamped, or made from wire?
Thinking about this im wondering if there would be big issues with cast claws/split prongs?
All of the old ones iv seen were not cast.

Ours are all made by hand using forged platinum stock. I could understand problems existing with cast claw/split prongs.

 

[valeria101]

Date: 3/25/2006 4:37:13 PM
Author: strmrdr

Like it even better without the surprise diamond so the pavilion is open.
I think you have an image of one like that, that you posted in another thread.

Shameless photoshop I am affraid ...

'TierHog's setting looks allot like that:

(tall prongs because it is not set - the diamond was temporarily mounted only).


But there seems to be at least some similar things 'in nature' - like this low-set one: