Some interesting things from AGS class

[WinkHPD]

I am finally back from the AGS cut grading seminar, wow! My head feels like an overstuffed grape and I think knowledge is leaking out of my ears...

It was an intense session with a lot of great instruction and some one on one time with both Pete Yantzer and Jim Caudill. I actually learned how to use the Diamcalc software, of which both Pete and Jim are huge fans, even though they are developing and will soon announce their own software strictly for AGS jewelers to use in assigning cut grades.

AGS had fully developed the metrics for their dispersion grading as well as for the light proformance. This was NOT easy and required the use of FORWARD ray tracing, not backward ray tracing as while forward and back work for brilliance, backward ray tracing does NOT work for dispersion.

I will share an example of the metric here. This particular slide is taken, with permission and attribution from the AGS presentation given. It is a 6mm round with a pavilion angle of 40.4, a table of 55%, a crown angle of 33.0, a star facet length of 50% and lower girdle length of 80%. For those who have trouble figuring it out, the chart on the side shows the starting length of the flash at the eye from a set distance, the longer the length the more visible the dispersion, so the light yellow color at the top is the most desirable amount of dispersion.

We will use this information in future posts, that show what looks to be art but in fact is incredibly useful as well as very beautiful.

Wink

 

[WinkHPD]

Okay, here is the art part. First this picture is what they refer to as 30 blue, ie 30 degrees of obscuration in the ASET photo. The obscured light is what causes the star pattern in a Hearts and Arrows cut diamond.

This is 62,500 individual ASET images at extremely fine resolution. It contains a Universe of options for a 6 mm diamond with a 53% table, pavilion angles starting at 10 degrees (lower left hand corner) and going up by 0.20 degrees until 59.80 degrees on the left axis and crown angle of 10 degrees (lower left hand corner) and going up by 0.20 degrees until 59.80 degrees on the bottom axis.

You will notice large areas of nothingness (light leakage) with swaths of blue, green and red, each where those are the predominant color of that particular ASET image. Understanding that red is the color of overhead light and thus the most intense light, green the color of ambient light, which is less intense and thus less desireable, and blue the obscured light with zero intensity, you can see areas where the combination of angles might have possibilities.

Further understanding for this demonstration, that the AGS has chosen to grade stones under both 30 degrees obscuration for people with narrow heads and 40 degrees obscuration for ladies with boufant hairdoes, we must then compare these areas of red to the 40 blue picture of the same 62,500 ASET images to see if there is still red light at 40 blue to see if the diamond has potential for people who do not have narrow heads and then to the 62,500 images of the fire metric to see if even though the diamonds do have some brilliance, do they display any fire.

It works really cool on Peter Yantzer''s computer since he can put his finger on a seam of red at 30 blue, switch to the 40 blue picture with his finger still on the screen, then to the fire metric picture. Many places look like they have potential but either do not have the same potential at the 40 blue or no fire. When you enlarge the area enough to see the individual ASET images you find the diamonds with the most potential are those in the parameters that are now producing the AGS ideal cuts, although there are some surprizing stones in the square princess cuts with tables MUCH smaller than we are accustomed to!

Okay, here is the 30 blue...

 

[WinkHPD]

here is the 40 blue

 

[strmrdr]

any S.E./asscher info????????????????????????? ??????????? ???????????? ????????????? ??????????????? ??????????????

 

[WinkHPD]

And finally the fire metric picture.

While I find the usefulness of these pictures interesting in that they largely confirm the wisdom of what we are currently doing, I really love the beauty of what the universe has provided us in the art of looking at these diamonds in a new way.

I want to thank Peter Yantzer of the American Gem Society for sharing these photos with me and for giving me permission to post them to Pricescope. While they may seem like just pretty pictures, they are the result of leading edge technology pushing calculations and metrics. We had a gentleman from Sarin with us at the class, and Peter was challanging him to catch up to what AGS has done with the measurements and teasing him a little that while normally the development of projects is trailing the technology, in this case the ability of the Diamcalc and AGS softwares is such that they are pushing the ability of the machines to give them the accurate measurements that they so crave.

Ladies and Gentlemen, these pictures are truly the result of rocket science quality research, an astonishing look at what the science of cutting can do.

Wink

 

[WinkHPD]

Date: 2/23/2006 9:25:11 PM
Author: strmrdr
any S.E./asscher info????????????????????????? ??????????? ???????????? ????????????? ??????????????? ??????????????

Yes, of course! I am too tired to do another set of these now, but I have the universe of Square Emerald cut diamonds with 45 degree tabless that I can share with you also. By the way, in the square stones, they even had to compare the cut corner ratios and angles when coming up with the metrics for their ideal cut grades, this is simply NOT an easy task!

Wink

P.S. I am going home and go to bed now, I could not shut my brain down enough to sleep much and I am exhausted. Of course Storm, if these pictures bore you I don''t HAVE to spend the time preparing them for small pictures.... The real photos are over 20 megabytes each.

 

[strmrdr]

sniff sniff now there is one more reason I wont sleep tonight.
torture I tell ya!

sleep well my friend and thanks for the info :}

 

[WinkHPD]

Also, quickly while I am still conscious and coherent...

Storm, yes, they do have Heliums when they need them, however, at nearly 3 minutes per scan (from memory here, I may be off a little) versus 15 seconds or so for a Sarin, and doing literally hundreds of stones per day, they will use the Sarin when ever possilble.

Tolkowsky really nailed it when he created his model. A Tolkowsky cut diamond will establish a good contrast pattern at about 25 degrees obscuration, and will hold it until about 44-45 degrees. Requiring a diamond to hold this level of excellence however results in a very small universe of cuts worthy of beincg called ideal, so the more tolerant range of 30 blue and 40 blue was chosen as this is also a good range for most observers. However, it does go a long way to explaining why a guy might look at a diamond and his female companion may think it dark as her larger hairdoe is providing more obscuration than that diamond can handle...

Also, why do the arrow heads look less dark in an ASET than the arrow heads? Because the shanks are a table table lighting, thus darker. The arrow heads are bezel bezel or table bezel reflective lighting and thus not as dark. I don''t honestly remember exactly what that means, just know that it is so and that is what I put in my notes.

The ASET images may eventually be put on the reports, it may come with a standard Diamond Quality Document, it may have its own document, or it may cost more or it may not, decisions are in discussions about this but have not been made.

The photo capable ASET hit a snag, snags are being worked on, and yes, there will be one.

Wink

 

[WinkHPD]

Date: 2/23/2006 9:44:01 PM
Author: strmrdr
sniff sniff now there is one more reason I wont sleep tonight.
torture I tell ya!

sleep well my friend and thanks for the info :}

There there my friend, that''s enough to tease you a little, and there will be more, much more, in the very exciting months to come. Tomorrow I promise I will process the pictures of the SE for your viewing pleasure.

Goodnight!

Wink

 

[JohnQuixote]

Date: 2/23/2006 9:05:45 PM
Author:Wink

AGS had fully developed the metrics for their dispersion grading as well as for the light proformance. This was NOT easy and required the use of FORWARD ray tracing, not backward ray tracing as while forward and back work for brilliance, backward ray tracing does NOT work for dispersion.

Thanks for the peeks so far and those to come, Wink.

The fire analytics are very exciting. Anyone who likes the graphic Wink posted will enjoy seeing the tilt effects composite Marty Haske placed on his site: It shows Tolkowsky 30 deg/40 deg/fire in 1 degree increments. You'll need to save it and open it to zoom in and enjoy it (>400k).

http://www.adamasgem.org/pngs/tolk.png

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 2/23/2006 9:53:40 PM
Author: JohnQuixote

Date: 2/23/2006 9:05:45 PM

Author:Wink


AGS had fully developed the metrics for their dispersion grading as well as for the light proformance. This was NOT easy and required the use of FORWARD ray tracing, not backward ray tracing as while forward and back work for brilliance, backward ray tracing does NOT work for dispersion.

Thanks for the peeks so far and those to come, Wink.


The fire analytics are very exciting. Anyone who likes the graphic Wink posted will enjoy seeing the tilt effects composite Marty Haske placed on his site: It shows Tolkowsky 30 deg/40 deg/fire in 1 degree increments. You''ll need to save it and open it to zoom in and enjoy it (>400k).


http://www.adamasgem.org/pngs/tolk.png

kicken thanks for the link :}

 

[Rhino]

Very cool stuff Wink. At my earliest I have an interesting graphic demonstrating what you were talking about regarding the lighter arrows heads vs darker arrow shanks. Jim and Pete are great communicators and very helpful to the trade.

Peace,

 

[belle]

thanks for the new desktop wallpaper wink! i''m looking forward to hearing more of your insight from ags.

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 2/23/2006 9:46:28 PM
Author: Wink
Also, quickly while I am still conscious and coherent...


Storm, yes, they do have Heliums when they need them, however, at nearly 3 minutes per scan (from memory here, I may be off a little) versus 15 seconds or so for a Sarin, and doing literally hundreds of stones per day, they will use the Sarin when ever possilble.

Hopefully they can do something about the S.E. problem sarin has if AGS is going to insist on using them for S.E.s


Tolkowsky really nailed it when he created his model. A Tolkowsky cut diamond will establish a good contrast pattern at about 25 degrees obscuration, and will hold it until about 44-45 degrees. Requiring a diamond to hold this level of excellence however results in a very small universe of cuts worthy of beincg called ideal, so the more tolerant range of 30 blue and 40 blue was chosen as this is also a good range for most observers. However, it does go a long way to explaining why a guy might look at a diamond and his female companion may think it dark as her larger hairdoe is providing more obscuration than that diamond can handle...


Also, why do the arrow heads look less dark in an ASET than the arrow heads? Because the shanks are a table table lighting, thus darker. The arrow heads are bezel bezel or table bezel reflective lighting and thus not as dark. I don''t honestly remember exactly what that means, just know that it is so and that is what I put in my notes.

makes sence

The ASET images may eventually be put on the reports, it may come with a standard Diamond Quality Document, it may have its own document, or it may cost more or it may not, decisions are in discussions about this but have not been made.

kewl id like to see that done


The photo capable ASET hit a snag, snags are being worked on, and yes, there will be one.

kewl


Wink

 

[strmrdr]

Based on the information presented by AGS rate these 3 simulated asschers please.

 

[oldminer]

so the light yellow color at the top is the most desirable amount of dispersion.


Wink: This is an out of context quote, but would you explain what determines the most desirable amount of dispersion? Isn''t that a matter of personal taste? If a diamond has the requisite beauty, judged by how well it works with light to be called "ideal", then a measure of dispersion is not required to set an Ideal grade. Then, even if one measures dispersion, it is a metric that makes one person pleased and another doesn''t care, but all admit the diamond is a great cut because of the other factors which are universal to well cut diamonds. Also, as diamonds become fancy colors, dispersion decreases as body color masks it. Are we going to take body color out of the metric? It is a can of variable worms which trained scientists might choose to re-think. Gemologists and jewelers really don''t have the educational tools to see beyond the simple logic of measuring everything. If one really wants accuracy in making a judgment, one needs to limit the metrics to a very few and be sure they correlate to the correct final result. Measuring dispersion will not make grading diamonds for cut more accurate. While it can be measured, it is not needed in determining what is "Ideally Cut".

My own belief is that you know when a diamond is "ideal" without measuring fire at all. All fine diamonds have some dispersion, some more, some less. It is something a person might choose to go for or not be worried over.

If one had a contest of beauty and you had wonderful faces from Europe, Asia and Africa, each has certain characteristics that the mind perceives as beautiful symmetry and proportions. This is not a race based perception, but a universal perception. However, based on personal taste and cultural bias, people may tend to select the racial features of a particular race. That is how I view a a metric of dispersion. A personal preference metric, but not a metric of the absolute beauty factor...

I hope people understand the poiint I am attempting to make and not think I am making racisit comments. Please don''t misread the example in that sense.

 

[WinkHPD]

Date: 2/24/2006 7:04:40 AM
Author: strmrdr

Date: 2/23/2006 9:46:28 PM

Author: Wink

Also, quickly while I am still conscious and coherent...



Storm, yes, they do have Heliums when they need them, however, at nearly 3 minutes per scan (from memory here, I may be off a little) versus 15 seconds or so for a Sarin, and doing literally hundreds of stones per day, they will use the Sarin when ever possilble.


Hopefully they can do something about the S.E. problem sarin has if AGS is going to insist on using them for S.E.s


Wink

I did not say that they would insist on using the the Sarin for S.E.''s, only that they would use the Sarin when they can properly do so for the time factor. The gentleman from Sarin said that while they claim to be accurate to within (help me out someone, my brain had gone flat and I can not remember where to place the decimal on the number two, or what the unit of measurement is, oh woe is me, it was so full yesterday, but has sprung a leak) the actual error rate can be as low as half of that elusive number when the machine is properly calibrated.

It may well be that they will in fact use the helium devices for the S.E.''s if they are unable to get accurate readings for them with the Sarins. It was during this part of the conversation that Pete challenged Sarin to leap frog the current situation where the useage was pushing the ability of the technology.

Wink

 

[WinkHPD]

Date: 2/24/2006 7:14:33 AM
Author: strmrdr
Based on the information presented by AGS rate these 3 simulated asschers please.

They did not release any information to us yet on the SE cuts, only shared a little peek. I am not going to put myself in a position of trying to rank stones based on my guess of what they will release after doing literally years of work. Once I get my Diamcalc software up and running and know better how to use it I will be happy to look at the stones to give you a more informed conversation, but if I did anything at this time it would be more supposition than informed.

Wink in wiggle mode

 

[valeria101]

Nice wallpaper! (second you Belle).


Did anyone try to explain the intriguing squiggles on the charts? Just curious...

Thinking that... if the charts were solely an impressionistic rendering of DC output, or truly an end on themselves (i.e say.. with some empirical checks included, or something).


I envy you a bit, Wink

What I don''t see on these charts is the trade-off between fire & brilliance sometimes mentioned

. If I remember right, the statement on that was given less stark nuance than ''trade-off'' some time back. Nothing this glaring as a pair of Good Old Charts though. Pretty cool to see.

Thanks for the AGS story

 

[WinkHPD]

Date: 2/24/2006 8:00:16 AM
Author: oldminer
so the light yellow color at the top is the most desirable amount of dispersion.



Wink: This is an out of context quote, but would you explain what determines the most desirable amount of dispersion? Isn''t that a matter of personal taste? If a diamond has the requisite beauty, judged by how well it works with light to be called ''ideal'', then a measure of dispersion is not required to set an Ideal grade. Then, even if one measures dispersion, it is a metric that makes one person pleased and another doesn''t care, but all admit the diamond is a great cut because of the other factors which are universal to well cut diamonds. Also, as diamonds become fancy colors, dispersion decreases as body color masks it. Are we going to take body color out of the metric? It is a can of variable worms which trained scientists might choose to re-think. Gemologists and jewelers really don''t have the educational tools to see beyond the simple logic of measuring everything. If one really wants accuracy in making a judgment, one needs to limit the metrics to a very few and be sure they correlate to the correct final result. Measuring dispersion will not make grading diamonds for cut more accurate. While it can be measured, it is not needed in determining what is ''Ideally Cut''.

You are correct in that I spoke imprecisely saying that the yellow was the most desireable. Scientifically it will be the most visible since the individual sprays of dispersion are larger in those areas that show the lighter yellow.

I am not well enough versed in the light sciences to know if you are correct in your statement of dispersion being less in the colored diamonds or if it is still there, simply masked by the body color, making it harder for us to perceive. I certainly have seen some incredible dispersion in the colored diamonds that I have sold over the years, especially in the EightStar colored diamonds that I have been fortunate enough to have seen.

Your comment that if the diamond works well enough with light to be called ideal then disperion is not required is in direct conflict with the grading standards of the American Gem Society, as the disperion is one of the metrics graded in assigning the Ideal grade for an AGS graded diamond. If the diamond has otherwise Ideal light return performance and does not have disperion there will be a deduction for this and the diamond will not receive the Ideal grade. The men who derived these standards, Pete Yantzer, Jim Caudill, Richard von Sternberg, Michael Cowing, Marty Haske, and several others whose names I do not know are all brilliant and dedicated men. (Some were involved at various stages and not many have been there for the whole trip like Jim Caudill and Pete Yanzer, but all the above were mentioned to me by name during my short time with Peterand Jim, often with a short comment about something that they had contributed.) I am not qualified to second guess their work, but I really admire the results.

As for "Gemologists and jewelers really don''t have the educational tools to see beyond the simple logic of measuring everything. If one really wants accuracy in making a judgment, one needs to limit the metrics to a very few and be sure they correlate to the correct final result. Measuring dispersion will not make grading diamonds for cut more accurate. While it can be measured, it is not needed in determining what is ''Ideally Cut''.", I simply must take exception.

Gemologists now more than ever before have the tools they need with non-contact hardware and software such as the Sarin, OGI and Helium devices. Jewelers too have the access to these machines, either by choosing to invest the thousands of dollars necessary as many have done (Jonathon comes to mind here, I wonder if he has passed the 100k investment yet, he certainly is well over 50k to my certain knowledge) or by getting their suppliers to supply this information to them whenever possible such as I have done with the stones I sell for Paul Antwerp. If you had said that many of them do not have the EMOTIONAL tools to see beyond the simple logic of measuring everything I might sadly agree, but the educational tools are there for the using and their public is increasingly demanding that these tools be used, so they better get to using or they WILL be left behind.

Light and its behavior really is not simple, it IS rocket science, like it or not. Even a small jeweler like me needs to know these things and be able to simplify them and explain them to their clients in terms that will not put their clients into a catatonic state. Herein lies the value of the ASET. I can show a client in less than two minutes the result of the cutter''s art. That is what my clients care about, not all the science behind it, but it is the science that allows us to reliably measure and quantify the cutter''s art. (Am I wrong to consider an EightStar, A Cut above, Hearts on Fire, Superbcert, or other Ideal cut diamond, branded or not, Art? I think not, as each certainly brings joy to the heart of the viewer, and especially to the hearts of both the giver and the receiver!)

The new AGS software will do the measuring of the metrics for the AGS jeweler, the Diamond Quality Document from AGS will do the measuring for the non AGS jewelers who want the information on the diamonds that they own. My position is now that we can determine what really makes a top cut diamond then let''s tell people everything they want to know about their diamond and let them choose. If dispersion is truly not important to them then they can choose, possibly, a slightly less expensive diamond without dispersion if they wish. Fortunately, a truly well cut diamond will normally come with dispersion included, no extra charge.

By the way, the not yet ready for prime time scintillation metric is truly stunning in its visual display. It is so complex that even the rocket scientists at AGS do not know for sure exactly what it is they are seeing, but they are working on it each and every day. They have a pretty good idea what is good and bad, but they can not yet explain every component of what they are seeing, so obviously they can not yet offer it up to us. Jim made my head positively hurt just trying to explain some of the minor intricacies of it, so when they themselves fully understand it and are ready to explain it, I will be stocking up on aspirin and advil. Stand by for NEWS...

Wink

 

[WinkHPD]

Date: 2/24/2006 9:39:41 AM
Author: valeria101


Nice wallpaper! (second you Belle).



Did anyone try to explain the intriguing squiggles on the charts? Just curious...

Thinking that... if the charts were solely an impressionistic rendering of DC output, or truly an end on themselves (i.e say.. with some empirical checks included, or something).



I envy you a bit, Wink

What I don''t see on these charts is the trade-off between fire & brilliance sometimes mentioned

. If I remember right, the statement on that was given less stark nuance than ''trade-off'' some time back. Nothing this glaring as a pair of Good Old Charts though. Pretty cool to see.


Thanks for the AGS story

Valeria,

You make some astute observations young lady! I do not know for sure if the charts have an empirical checks, I kind of doubt it, but I am not qualified to state this for sure. I think the intention was to see where there might be some sleeper and as yet untried stones that might be as beautiful or even more beautiful than the stones already being cut. In the photos that I will process down to a showable size and post later today the table of the Square Emerald cuts are all at 45%. Such a stone was chosen from this photo set and cut by a factory in India and the cutters called Peter to tell him the stone is a true SCREAMER, worthy of Storm''s attention. (Okay, I added the part about Storm!)

Now, your comment that really impressed me. You are absolutely correct. It appears to the rocket scientists that there is NO trade off between brilliance and fire. This was first emphatically stated to me several years ago by none other than Richard von Sternberg, and then again earlier this week by Peter. The trade off they now believe but are working on proving, is between fire and scintillation. Stand by for NEWS... (but don''t hold your breath, this is not quick and easy solution type stuff.)

How did you make this brilliant leap from the pictures that I shared? It was handed to me on a platter, I am not sure I would have made the connection myself. What triggered this in your mind, please share with us the intuitive process.

Wink

 

[Rhino]

Greetings again Winkster,

I''m not 100% sure if what you were referring to with the darker arrow shafts vs lighter arrow heads but this pretty recent picture I snapped off came to mind which demonstrates in real world conditions this phenomena as seen with the eyes. Is this along the lines of what you were referring to?

Kind Regards,

 

[JohnQuixote]

Date: 2/24/2006 8:56:23 AM
Author: Wink

I did not say that they would insist on using the the Sarin for S.E.'s, only that they would use the Sarin when they can properly do so for the time factor. The gentleman from Sarin said that while they claim to be accurate to within (help me out someone, my brain had gone flat and I can not remember where to place the decimal on the number two, or what the unit of measurement is, oh woe is me, it was so full yesterday, but has sprung a leak) the actual error rate can be as low as half of that elusive number when the machine is properly calibrated.

When last I knew, Sarin's given error was +/- .2 angular and +/- 2% linear. That was before the new software.

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 2/24/2006 9:08:08 AM
Author: Wink

Date: 2/24/2006 7:14:33 AM

Author: strmrdr

Based on the information presented by AGS rate these 3 simulated asschers please.

They did not release any information to us yet on the SE cuts, only shared a little peek. I am not going to put myself in a position of trying to rank stones based on my guess of what they will release after doing literally years of work. Once I get my Diamcalc software up and running and know better how to use it I will be happy to look at the stones to give you a more informed conversation, but if I did anything at this time it would be more supposition than informed.


Wink in wiggle mode

LOL ok ill let ya off the hook....
I will email you the dmc files for them.

 

[WinkHPD]

Date: 2/24/2006 10:30:07 AM
Author: Rhino

Greetings again Winkster,

I''m not 100% sure if what you were referring to with the darker arrow shafts vs lighter arrow heads but this pretty recent picture I snapped off came to mind which demonstrates in real world conditions this phenomena as seen with the eyes. Is this along the lines of what you were referring to?

Kind Regards,

Yes, that is a real world example of what we see under the ASET.

Wink

 

[WinkHPD]

Date: 2/24/2006 10:42:58 AM
Author: strmrdr

Date: 2/24/2006 9:08:08 AM

Author: Wink

Date: 2/24/2006 7:14:33 AM


Author: strmrdr


Based on the information presented by AGS rate these 3 simulated asschers please.

They did not release any information to us yet on the SE cuts, only shared a little peek. I am not going to put myself in a position of trying to rank stones based on my guess of what they will release after doing literally years of work. Once I get my Diamcalc software up and running and know better how to use it I will be happy to look at the stones to give you a more informed conversation, but if I did anything at this time it would be more supposition than informed.



Wink in wiggle mode

LOL ok ill let ya off the hook....

I will email you the dmc files for them.

Whew!

 

[JohnQuixote]

Date: 2/24/2006 9:53:08 AM
Author: Wink

...I am not well enough versed in the light sciences to know if you are correct in your statement of dispersion being less in the colored diamonds or if it is still there, simply masked by the body color, making it harder for us to perceive. I certainly have seen some incredible dispersion in the colored diamonds that I have sold over the years, especially in the EightStar colored diamonds that I have been fortunate enough to have seen...

Optical symmetry improves dispersion due to the nature of the DCLR. Martin Haske attributes it to purer spectral colors firing simultaneously. In well cut OS diamonds with close angular relationships on the crown (those with painted girdles in particular) the purer spectral colors result in broader flashes and the fire/sparkle can be seen from farther away. The world's top cutters have known this for years without recognition from the labs. I've been excited for some time that AGS is presenting analytics that will recognize this.

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 2/24/2006 10:36:59 AM
Author: JohnQuixote

Date: 2/24/2006 8:56:23 AM

Author: Wink


I did not say that they would insist on using the the Sarin for S.E.'s, only that they would use the Sarin when they can properly do so for the time factor. The gentleman from Sarin said that while they claim to be accurate to within (help me out someone, my brain had gone flat and I can not remember where to place the decimal on the number two, or what the unit of measurement is, oh woe is me, it was so full yesterday, but has sprung a leak) the actual error rate can be as low as half of that elusive number when the machine is properly calibrated.

When last I knew, Sarin's given error was +/- .2 angular and +/- 2% linear. That was before the new software.

yep, except it Sometimes doesn't track step cuts properly and often adds facets that aren't there to complete the model.
I wanted to note that it doesn't do this on all of them only it seems like on ones where the angles of the facets are close to one another.

edited for completeness, edits are in bold.

 

[belle]

Date: 2/24/2006 10:53:50 AM
Author: strmrdr

Date: 2/24/2006 10:36:59 AM
Author: JohnQuixote

Date: 2/24/2006 8:56:23 AM

Author: Wink


I did not say that they would insist on using the the Sarin for S.E.''s, only that they would use the Sarin when they can properly do so for the time factor. The gentleman from Sarin said that while they claim to be accurate to within (help me out someone, my brain had gone flat and I can not remember where to place the decimal on the number two, or what the unit of measurement is, oh woe is me, it was so full yesterday, but has sprung a leak) the actual error rate can be as low as half of that elusive number when the machine is properly calibrated.

When last I knew, Sarin''s given error was +/- .2 angular and +/- 2% linear. That was before the new software.

yep, except it doesnt track step cuts properly and often adds facets that arent there to complete the model.

don''t even start. there is absolutely no reason to go into the scanner debate again. wink asked for someone to help him remember the numbers is all. jeeeez! pot stirrer.

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 2/24/2006 11:17:32 AM
Author: belle

Date: 2/24/2006 10:53:50 AM
don''t even start. there is absolutely no reason to go into the scanner debate again. wink asked for someone to help him remember the numbers is all. jeeeez! pot stirrer.

dearest belle,
Im sure ags is aware of the problem and working on a solution.
Not everyone reads every thread so I just mentioned what the problem is so those that are reading this and wondering what we are talking about will know.
By the comments of the AGS people to the sarin rep it sounds like they have it under controll.