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So what''s the story with gemologist certification???

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wannabsure

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 23, 2002
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10
So yesterday I was talking to my jeweller (possibly not my jeweller any longer, after our conversation). There were two rings we were discussing, and he gave me the 4c info. I asked for the depth % etc. so that I could research the gems on this site to make sure they were a fair buy. He then wanted to know 'who was telling me to ask these questions' because that information won't provide me with the whole picture. The conversation ended without getting those stats.

Now, a possibly crucial thread to this story is that I asked what standards the stones were graded to, and he said 'mine'.?????????????

Now he keeps talking about some new accredditation (sp?) he has. We are in Canada, and it is a designation given by the CJA or the CJI, I'm not sure. He is an accreddited AAP CJI gemologist. He also says he's a diamond broker, but then I haven't met a jeweller yet that hasn't said he was a broker.

Now, after yesterday, I'm ready to walk because I got the feeling he was a little defensive when i started asking too many questions. But his prices seem pretty good after checking the 4c's on the net.

He says he rates diamonds a little harsher than GIA standards, that his standards are higher.

I'm just wondering what the story is on having your own standards????? That really doesn't make a lot of sense to me. But hey, I don't know everything.

Anyone know what the story is here?
 

square

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 1, 2002
Messages
20
wanna:
i'm just a know-nothing consumer like you, buy you've got to be f**king kidding me!!! i tell these guys on the phone, BEFORE i even walk in the place that i'd appreciate it if they have the certs ready to show and copies for me to take notes on. i have seen 4 or 5 brokers and NONE of them have complained about this. if i were you i would never speak to this guy about diamonds again. best of luck, steve.
 

pricescope

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Dec 31, 1999
Messages
8,266
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He then wanted to know 'who was telling me to ask these questions' because that information won't provide me with the whole picture.
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It is true. Sometimes all the numbers still cannot describe a unique diamond. However, they can help you at least weed away obvious dogs. I don’t understand why not to give you these numbers.


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Now, a possibly crucial thread to this story is that I asked what standards the stones were graded to, and he said 'mine'.?????????????
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I can understand that. Your jeweler might be proud about his knowledge and experience and demand certain respect from you – the customer.


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Now he keeps talking about some new accredditation (sp?) he has. We are in Canada, and it is a designation given by the CJA or the CJI, I'm not sure. He is an accreddited AAP CJI gemologist. He also says he's a diamond broker, but then I haven't met a jeweller yet that hasn't said he was a broker.
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Graduate Jeweller (Canadian Jewellers Institute)
Accredited Appraiser (Canadian Jewellers Institute)


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Now, after yesterday, I'm ready to walk because I got the feeling he was a little defensive when i started asking too many questions. But his prices seem pretty good after checking the 4c's on the net.

He says he rates diamonds a little harsher than GIA standards, that his standards are higher.
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Very well can be. Can you check the grades yourself (clarity, color)? Or with independent appraiser?

If the grades are correct then no worries.

However, there are many jewelers who are just irritated by smarty-pants consumers. ;-)
 

fire&ice

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jul 22, 2002
Messages
7,828
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On 8/1/2002 3:02:51 PM


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If the grades are correct then no worries.

However, there are many jewelers who are just irritated by smarty-pants consumers. ;-)

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Yes, how true. Actually, all of your responses were good common sense from another propective. I'm not faulting wanna for asking those questions. I think the jeweler should be forthcoming with this info. He also may not want you to comparative shop. Can't blame him to some extent. I think Leonid's question of will he let an independent appraiser look at the stone is key in this. In my business, I welcome an independent appraiser to inspect an item...well, as long as the appraiser has no agenda. People just seem happier that way. ...even though I have 15 years of experience in a relatively new collecting area - everyone has someone who knows more than me ;-) And, yes, if this guys been looking at stones for many many years than he's confident w/o a cert. Cert's are a relatively newer phenom. Not newer, just becoming more popular. It was my experience that stones w/ GIA certs were more expensive.
 

wannabsure

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 23, 2002
Messages
10
OK, well, just to follow up:

this was the first time i asked any of these questions, and he just seemed to be dodging my questions. To me, if you are dodging questions, you are afraid of something or trying to hide something. It very well may be that he was proud and irritated.

The other thing is, we first went to the store and he had a ring that my future-fiance LOVED. She didn't hide it in front of him either. The prices he gave me for the diamonds included the setting, and he doesn't seem to want to break down the price between the diamond and the setting. And yesterday he started using the emotional tactic about going platinum when I said I wanted gold. He told me 'to tell you the truth I have seen the look on women's faces when they put a platinum ring on, and their face just lights up, you really should consider platinum'. Pfft, the platinum was CAD$1600.00 more. I just said, 'yeah, well, everyone has thier limits and I didn't want to compensate the diamond for platinum'.

I guess everyone's a salesman, an no one is going to do me any favours in terms of value/price etc. I was just hoping to get some insight on why he was behaving this way..I was wondering if his credentials stood for anything in terms of morality in the marketplace etc. Leonid seemed to hit the nail on the head i think. But then...if I'm spending this money, why shouldn't I ask questions? Or am I supposed to plunk my money down on the table because of his say so???????????
 

pricescope

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Dec 31, 1999
Messages
8,266
tough call, WBS...

can you post the specs of the stone and a picture of the ring (maybe you can find it in the web somewhere)?
 

wannabsure

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 23, 2002
Messages
10
Nope, he has not published any pictures of the ring and I have not seen anything like it - it's a very, very, modern, non traditional design. He said he won't photogragh it because he doesn't want anyone to copy it.

All I have is the 4c info, which, when I plug it into Blue Nile, Mondera or on here, the price seems to be fair. It comes out to be about CAD 3700 hundred dollars for a .78 J I1 diamond.The price includes the setting. Thats all the info I have to go on.....

I dunno, there doesn't seem to be much that I can do if I want the ring. I guess I just have to trust him against my better judgement.
 

fire&ice

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jul 22, 2002
Messages
7,828
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On 8/1/2002 5:11:25 PM

CAD 3700 hundred dollars for a .78 J I1 diamond.The price includes the setting. Thats all the info I have to go on.....

I dunno, there doesn't seem to be much that I can do if I want the ring. I guess I just have to trust him against my better judgement.

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Just my thoughts. If someone was trying to pull the wool over your eyes so to speak, I think they would tell you the stone was an H SI. A J I1 is not the most saleable of stones in a consumers eye (although this is what jewelry stores often sell as H SI). So, common sense would say the guy is on the up and up. The most important thing is that you and your finance like the ring & stone...and is it pretty? JMHO, I would have hesitancy in setting a j color in platinum - gold is the way to go. The jeweler probably has little invested into the setting except time. Most won't break down the setting price unless it is substantial. Usually the setting is around 100 -300 US dollars. Good Luck, and I wish the ring good Karma for you.
 

pricescope

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Dec 31, 1999
Messages
8,266
----------------
Nope, he has not published any pictures of the ring and I have not seen anything like it - it's a very, very, modern, non traditional design. He said he won't photogragh it because he doesn't want anyone to copy it.
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Well, if it's unique design then of course price comparison is useless. It might be priced 10x or 100x more. It cost as much as you ready to pay for it.
 

RubyBleu

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 10, 2002
Messages
64
Where you at Wannabe? I'm in Canada too.

Most Jewelers don't sell cert. stones - it adds greatly to the cost of the stone $50US or more so this guy probably didn't have any numbers to give you. He probably knows stones and buys them himself - The last time he ever measured crown angles or %'s was when he did his grading exam. And others are right - numbers don't mean a whole lot on their own, especially to a Jeweler - the trained eye can select the better stones from the dogs quite easily and very quickly..... remember, Jewelers or dealers buy their stones in parcels.

Generally, a cert is reserved for a more valuable stone - ie, larger size, or high Color/Clarity. The Plat upsell sounds flakey - enough for me to walk (or at least slap him on the nose) -especially at your budget range. But you might have a great stone there, so trust your gut. Have you shopped around much? Are you in a city where this is possible?

RB
 

wannabsure

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 23, 2002
Messages
10
Hi Ruby,

I am in Winnipeg, but I looked around in Alberta as well (no PST, which is a bit of a savings). I have and am shopping around in my city, but it seems that in my price range, there doesn't seem to be too much price variation. Even the dealers that have been on the high side vary by a couple of hundread dollars, which isn't too much in the scope of things. Maybe I'm worrying too much about it.....it's not that I'm worried about getting ripped off, I just want to find the best stone for my money.
 
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