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So, rising prices mean diamonds no longer need reports? HUH?

kenny

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Recently I've seen more and more posts, even from seasoned PSers, considering buying diamonds without grading reports, "because prices have risen so much".

Whassup with dat?

The value of a diamond depends on what it is.
Subtle color and clarity differences not noticeable to us who do not have GIA GG degrees can dramatically affect price.
A grading report from a reputable lab assures you of what the specs are, so you don't have to take the seller's word for it. :Up_to_something: :Up_to_something: :Up_to_something:

A $100 GIA report is a small price to pay to ensure you are not overpaying by thousands of dollars.

Prices are high now so being unsure of the specs means throwing away more money than when prices were lower.
 

yennyfire

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Re: So, rising prices mean diamonds no longer need reports?

Wise, as always Kenny (OK, maybe not always ;)) )!
 

lyra

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Re: So, rising prices mean diamonds no longer need reports?

Kenny, Kenny, Kenny. People vary. :bigsmile: But seriously, I have always (as you know) been comfortable buying uncerted because I have in my employ 3 great appraisers locally. One is very, very tough and tells it like it is and picks up every little thing. He is a GG, I'm not. I trust him to tell me that what my own eyes perceive matches the specs I've bought from. I know what I like and don't like, he's the tech support with all the background knowledge. So that works fine for me. I'm much more wary of buying a coloured stone than a diamond really. Diamonds comes down to good math basically, and there are easy guidelines to follow. I only buy if there is a 100% return for *any* reason policy. So I take my diamonds to the appraiser before I decide to keep them. Works for me. Not everyone is interested in a super ideal H&A diamond. I weigh the risks (accurate colour/clarity/cut/carat) versus the benefits to me, which is lower price. YMMV. Heck, your mileage does vary, and I respect that too. ;))

ETA: I can choose to cert any stone I want to sell later on too. It's a minimal cost. You rarely make money reselling diamonds bought at retail new value.
 

kenny

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Re: So, rising prices mean diamonds no longer need reports?

Good points Lyra! :appl:
People absolutely DO vary!!!!!
I wish everyone was as smart as you.

Unfortunately I read about higher prices resulting in some people letting their guard down and "saving money by buying uncertified stones."
My OP is addressed to them.
 

CedarRapids

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Re: So, rising prices mean diamonds no longer need reports?

I just bought mine (well in advance of proposing)! GIA. Reputable online vendor. A stone unique specs and ones with which I will happy even if the price goes down 20% tomorrow.
 

Amys Bling

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Re: So, rising prices mean diamonds no longer need reports?

Inthink it's fine as long as you are smart like Lyra-- good return policies and a great appraiser to work with Are a must in my opinion when buying uncerted.
 

Kaleigh

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Re: So, rising prices mean diamonds no longer need reports?

I gave my Ashley my studs that are 14K... 2 carat plus.. From who was a staple on PS.

She wears them every day. Martini set, they are amazing on her..

I got to missing diamond studs .... So went with a vendor who isn't on PS, got a great deal and didn't care a less that they weren't certed. I have known this jeweler for over 20 years. They are 3 carats TCW, excellent cut, H VS1.. I scored big time..

They are out of business now and could cry .... I loved what they did, they were great..
 

Black Jade

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Re: So, rising prices mean diamonds no longer need reports?

I have a different take on this one. I don't think diamonds ever NEEDED reports. I have some diamonds with certs but think of certs as a tool for buying over the internet when you can't see the actual diamond. If I can see the diamond in person and see that I like it, I don't find a report necessary at all. I'm with the previous poster, Lila, who said that she goes to an appraiser to make sure she didn't overpay. To me, that's all that's really important. Nobody ever asked to see my diamond cert for any of my stones and I think of myself as buying the diamond, not a piece of paper.

Pricescope has been very useful with me in terms of making me an informed consumer who knows what the appraiser is saying, who has a good idea of the going prices and also although I can't use a loupe like a trained professional, I can use it enough to screen out really obvious problems and save time. It helps me to buy on the secondary market. This is useful skill now that rising prices have affected online vendors so that many of them are no longer in the affordable range for regular people. it's a moot point that their diamonds are ideal or superideal and priced really well considering that, and if they have great service, if you don't have the cash to pay the prices they must now charge. I would imagine a lot of young men buying e-rings are now in that position and the reality is that they are going to have to find some way to scale down and of course uncerted is one of the things that they are considering. JMHO.
 

LGK

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Re: So, rising prices mean diamonds no longer need reports?

Honestly, I don't think any of *us* are the people Kenny is talking to. Sure, if you have a decent amount of experience looking at diamonds, you can break the rule "buy with a cert" with relative safety. Heck, I own *one* certed diamond and it sure isn't either OEC in my rings! But, I've looked at zillions of OECs and know what I like, and trust my own experience in IDing lower colors and what I like in a cut and so forth.

It's everyone else I think that Kenny is talking to- people buying sight unseen off the interwebs, who maybe don't have a ton of personal experience and/or backup help like a good appraiser. That, indeed, is a good way to get burned and waste money. Unfortunately.
 

kenny

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Re: So, rising prices mean diamonds no longer need reports?

LGK, yes.
I'm really worried about the uninformed masses.
They'll come here are read about us buying ungraded stones "because they're cheaper".
We all know what a trap that can be for the masses.
 

LGK

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Re: So, rising prices mean diamonds no longer need reports?

kenny|1314247578|2998963 said:
LGK, yes.
I'm really worried about the uninformed masses.
They'll come here are read about us buying ungraded stones "because they're cheaper".
We all know what a trap that can be for the masses.
Totally. And it'll be even more tempting than usual since people will naturally be looking to cut corners with prices much higher suddenly. And to Joe Schmoe, the difference between a GIA/AGS certed diamond, and an uncerted one that Mr. Jeweler *swears* is comparable to that GIA stone but soooo much cheaper, it won't be obvious why one is more expensive. Not without a decent amount of time looking at stones under his belt. And that indeed sucks.
 

Amys Bling

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Re: So, rising prices mean diamonds no longer need reports?

kenny|1314247578|2998963 said:
LGK, yes.
I'm really worried about the uninformed masses.
They'll come here are read about us buying ungraded stones "because they're cheaper".
We all know what a trap that can be for the masses.


Ver true. I feel like there ate more lurkers than not who read through a few postscand the purchase- never really becoming an involved member.
 

risingsun

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Re: So, rising prices mean diamonds no longer need reports?

I have always had grading reports on the center stone in my engagement ring. I have upgraded three times and have been given full purchase price of my diamond on all occasions. I received much less for the trade in on my original e-ring diamond, which did not have a grading report. I also want my jewelry appraised correctly for my Person Articles Policy. I had three .40 ct diamond studs go missing, stolen, I believe, and I received a check for the appraised value within a few days. On the smaller stones, an appraisal works fine, but on higher ticket items, I really want that grading report. As it stands now, I couldn't afford to repurchase my wedding set.* I just had
it reappraised and upped the insurance coverage and...ouch...it hurt :blackeye:

*without up to date insurance
 

kelpie

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Re: So, rising prices mean diamonds no longer need reports?

Show me where I can find a 8.5mm L VS2 OEC with a GIA report for under $5000? You probably can't, but I found a stone on ebay and have a competent appraiser whose opinion I trust to decide it's an L VS2....really the grade doesn't even matter except to the insurance company because I love it and clearly could never have found a clean stone than size with that already had report anywhere near that price. Heck after I got it repolished, I even asked Single Stone if they would send it to GIA. Their response, "Save your money. You either love it or you don't. Unless you're trying to re-sell it, what is a report going to tell you that your eyes don't?".

Like Lyra says your mileage will vary A LOT. I am sure some noobs/lurkers see the great deals of a lot of posters share here and think they've hit a gold mine until they end up with a hunk of bort or the infamous Lopsy Fugs to propose with. It is a quick trip to regretsville for an unseasoned noob, but I have done it many many times and sold or appraised items for far more than was paid or bought diamond jewelry for essentially the precious metal scrap price. The one time I was burned on a $75 item, paypal buyer protection worked perfectly and returned my money. I am always happy to discuss my methods for finding good deals and managing risk buying estate jewelry on ebay.
 

affguy

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Re: So, rising prices mean diamonds no longer need reports?

kenny|1314230308|2998614 said:
Prices are high now so being unsure of the specs means throwing away more money than when prices were lower.

This, as the argument against is pretty absurd. If a GIA report was "cheap insurance" on a purchase of a particular price 18 months ago, it's even cheaper insurance on a price 25+ percent higher than that today.

18 months ago: "Five thousand dollars is too much to gamble, spend the $100 on a cert."
Today: "Six thousand dollar is too much to waste $100 on a cert, just cross your fingers and hope"

Wha..whut? lol
 

MichelleCarmen

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Re: So, rising prices mean diamonds no longer need reports?

Yeah, I agree...but it'd also depends upon the size of the diamond and who I'm buying from. Even with a smaller diamond, I'd prefer a cert, but with a larger diamond, I'd absolutely only buy after having it certified. I'm looking for earrings and will probably just wait until the prices go down to get AGS or I'll get RSG ones from WF.
 

SB621

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Re: So, rising prices mean diamonds no longer need reports?

I guess for m it depends if I'm buying on the 2nd market or not....with buying there you take a gamble but things are much cheaper. I would rather buy (have a return policy in place) and have a trustred jewelry check it out. If I was buying new then yes I would want a GIA report because I'm spending a lot more money!
 

Black Jade

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Re: So, rising prices mean diamonds no longer need reports?

Sarahbear621|1314299748|2999460 said:
I guess for m it depends if I'm buying on the 2nd market or not....with buying there you take a gamble but things are much cheaper. I would rather buy (have a return policy in place) and have a trustred jewelry check it out. If I was buying new then yes I would want a GIA report because I'm spending a lot more money!

Agree with this 100%.
Also I hadn't been on Pricescope that long (maybe a month or two) before I started buying the way I want to.
I did read ALL the information available in education and then also many previous posts on the kinds of things I wanted before I did this.
I think a site like this is no use unless you use it properly. Finding Pricescope, reading nothing and doing no research here and just typing in a question without even checking to see who has asked this question before and what the answer was and blindly following advice is going to get you a great looking diamond, no question, it will cheaper than at Tiffany's or at most brick and mortar stores, no question--but it isn't necessarily going to be the best deal you could have gotten. I think that you are actually rather likely to 'overbuy' in terms of specs when you do that. Pricescopers are so conscientious and so anxious to be sure that a newbie will get something completely satisfactory that they are likely to steer you to diamonds that are ideal or superideal--to the Mercedes-Benz of the diamond world, if you know what I mean. While a somewhat lesser, but still luxury car might do just fine, especially in these times when the dollar has tanked, prices are skyrocketing and jobs are not secure (if you even have a job) and many might prefer to have the extra money it takes to get a new superideal diamond in the bank instead of on their finger--but still want a diamond.

I am not snagging Pricescope people here--I am so grateful for their help and all the wonderful advice on the board. And what can you do but give advice that is sure and certain when someone is trusting you completely for one of the most important purchases of their life? I guess I just think its important to put other views out there sometimes for those who would take a little iniative on their own (they may be few) especially in order to save a buck (and still do well).
 

Ashleigh

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Re: So, rising prices mean diamonds no longer need reports?

I haven't read all the replies but I suppose it's not a matter of purely $100 report fee. But that certed diamonds might be more expensive too. I'm not saying all uncerted diamonds are cheap but some can be well cut and reasonably priced. It's like some people who aren't opposed to getting EGL cert diamonds so long as they manage their expectations.
 

slg47

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Re: So, rising prices mean diamonds no longer need reports?

Ashleigh|1314333266|2999930 said:
I haven't read all the replies but I suppose it's not a matter of purely $100 report fee. But that certed diamonds might be more expensive too. I'm not saying all uncerted diamonds are cheap but some can be well cut and reasonably priced. It's like some people who aren't opposed to getting EGL cert diamonds so long as they manage their expectations.

more expensive because they are sold with reliable grading...
 

centralsquare

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Re: So, rising prices mean diamonds no longer need reports?

Black Jade|1314301522|2999502 said:
[ I think that you are actually rather likely to 'overbuy' in terms of specs when you do that. ).

Totally agree. The diamond in my engagement ring isn't a super ideal, H&A...it's just a regular GIA Excellent cut. But, I get a ton of comments on it, often people say they see it sparkle from across the room. I love my ring! I do have super ideal earrings but that was driven partly by the vendor's upgrade policy.
 

AmeliaG

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Re: So, rising prices mean diamonds no longer need reports?

I think its the old time vs. money continuum. With almost anything, you can get really good quality at a lower price if you're willing to spend some time educating yourself. Conversely, for new buyers, reliable reports with objective standards of cut, color and clarity can help minimize the risk of not getting the quality they expect - but it comes at a price. The buyers that scare me are new e-ring buyers that are looking for a good deal but are unwilling to spend any time researching. They're just asking to be had.

But you can't save some people from themselves - I think you've just got to assume that if a guy is comtemplating marriage he's been around the block enough to know the time vs. money continuum - it exists for a lot of other big purchases other than diamonds - cars, houses, etc.
 
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