"Snatching Healthcare Away From Millions"

[Ellen]

So K, are you saying the good doctor is lying, and she didn't heal herself? It's just one big fantastical placebo? (she tried the "best" drugs for 7 years and all it did was let her deteriorate)

Drugs don't make people better, but hey, if it makes you feel better.


Chrono, there were trials with good results but you won't see them. (Dr. Budwig had over a 90% cure rate) The cancer industry doesn't REALLY want a cure. They want a steady income. Read World Without Cancer in the link above, it will explain everything.



To each his own.

 

[lovedogs]

So K, are you saying the good doctor is lying, and she didn't heal herself? It's just one big fantastical placebo? (she tried the "best" drugs for 7 years and all it did was let her deteriorate)

Drugs don't make people better, but hey, if it makes you feel better.


Chrono, there were trials with good results but you won't see them. (Dr. Budwig had over a 90% cure rate) The cancer industry doesn't REALLY want a cure. They want a steady income. Read World Without Cancer in the link above, it will explain everything.



To each his own.

We are saying (sorry to speak for others here, but I think K and I share views in this regard), that 1 person claiming to have "healed" themselves is not proof, in any sense of the word, that a "cure" works. There are many reasons for diseases to progress and stop progressing. Drugs DO make people better, and to say otherwise is to ignore years of proven double-blind studies on the matter. And to assume that there are trials but "we won't see them", is ridiculous. I don't understand how we can have a rational discussion if you start from a place of "science is wrong, the evidence is wrong, and it's all a conspiracy". That isn't a rational position to take, and obviously anything we say to the contrary you will refute by claiming we've been fooled into believing said conspiracy. It's just a circular argument. If you want to believe it that's fine, but please don't claim that we are misinformed, or that we need to read more in order to "open our eyes".

EDIT: oh for f's sakes--you think we should read a book by a RANDOM WRITER AND DOCUMENTARY PRODUCER in order to teach us about the secret cure to cancer?!? I don't even have a response to how little sense that makes. The back of the book literally says the following:

This story is not approved by orthodox medicine. The FDA, the AMA, and The American Cancer Society have labeled it fraud and quackery.

I don't need to have any more information to know that this guy is flat out wrong.

 

[Ellen]

This is how brainwashed people have become. Someone (a MEDICAL doctor no less) can explain , not just say, but explain how they healed themselves and you cry foul. Unreal.

As for the writer of the book, his credentials, or lack there of mean nothing. All he did was detective work. He put all the information in one place to make it clear and coherent. He has a multitude of references, and as I said earlier, from actual senate hearings. (I have actually read this book) but I'm sure governmental hearings mean nothing either, right? The truth on so many things is right in front of your faces. I really hope you see it someday.

I know whatever I say doesn't matter, you're not going to hear it. That's ok though, I'm not posting for the ones who won't, I'm posting for the ones who will.

 

[Ellen]

As long as you expect the self appointed "truth tellers" to tell you the truth, you'll never find it. Good luck with that.

 

[msop04]

This is how brainwashed people have become. Someone (a MEDICAL doctor no less) can explain , not just say, but explain how they healed themselves and you cry foul. Unreal.

As for the writer of the book, his credentials, or lack there of mean nothing. All he did was detective work. He put all the information in one place to make it clear and coherent. He has a multitude of references, and as I said earlier, from actual senate hearings. (I have actually read this book) but I'm sure governmental hearings mean nothing either, right? The truth on so many things is right in front of your faces. I really hope you see it someday.

I know whatever I say doesn't matter, you're not going to hear it. That's ok though, I'm not posting for the ones who won't, I'm posting for the ones who will.

GAWD... these posts are getting ridiculous. As has been mentioned before, believe what you want... but don't label everyone else "misinformed".

To say that cancer can simply be cured with diet and lifestyle modifications is absurd. Countless people (and animals) suffer tremendously and die each day to cancer. Of those unfortunate souls include the very poor to the obscenely wealthy. Cancer and disease do not discriminate.

If the cure was there and so easily obtainable, do you not think the earth would be virtually cancer-free?? COME ON! SERIOUSLY?!?! Geeeezzzz...

I'm sorry. Someone had to say it. Because, well... SCIENCE.

 

[msop04]

So K, are you saying the good doctor is lying, and she didn't heal herself? It's just one big fantastical placebo? (she tried the "best" drugs for 7 years and all it did was let her deteriorate)

Drugs don't make people better, but hey, if it makes you feel better.


Chrono, there were trials with good results but you won't see them. (Dr. Budwig had over a 90% cure rate) The cancer industry doesn't REALLY want a cure. They want a steady income. Read World Without Cancer in the link above, it will explain everything.



To each his own.

We are saying (sorry to speak for others here, but I think K and I share views in this regard), that 1 person claiming to have "healed" themselves is not proof, in any sense of the word, that a "cure" works. There are many reasons for diseases to progress and stop progressing. Drugs DO make people better, and to say otherwise is to ignore years of proven double-blind studies on the matter. And to assume that there are trials but "we won't see them", is ridiculous. I don't understand how we can have a rational discussion if you start from a place of "science is wrong, the evidence is wrong, and it's all a conspiracy". That isn't a rational position to take, and obviously anything we say to the contrary you will refute by claiming we've been fooled into believing said conspiracy. It's just a circular argument. If you want to believe it that's fine, but please don't claim that we are misinformed, or that we need to read more in order to "open our eyes".

EDIT: oh for f's sakes--you think we should read a book by a RANDOM WRITER AND DOCUMENTARY PRODUCER in order to teach us about the secret cure to cancer?!? I don't even have a response to how little sense that makes. The back of the book literally says the following:

This story is not approved by orthodox medicine. The FDA, the AMA, and The American Cancer Society have labeled it fraud and quackery.

I don't need to have any more information to know that this guy is flat out wrong.

Bingo.

 

[lovedogs]

This is how brainwashed people have become. Someone (a MEDICAL doctor no less) can explain , not just say, but explain how they healed themselves and you cry foul. Unreal.

As for the writer of the book, his credentials, or lack there of mean nothing. All he did was detective work. He put all the information in one place to make it clear and coherent. He has a multitude of references, and as I said earlier, from actual senate hearings. (I have actually read this book) but I'm sure governmental hearings mean nothing either, right? The truth on so many things is right in front of your faces. I really hope you see it someday.

I know whatever I say doesn't matter, you're not going to hear it. That's ok though, I'm not posting for the ones who won't, I'm posting for the ones who will.

GAWD... these posts are getting ridiculous. As has been mentioned before, believe what you want... but don't label everyone else "misinformed".

To say that cancer can simply be cured with diet and lifestyle modifications is absurd. Countless people (and animals) suffer tremendously and die each day to cancer. Of those unfortunate souls include the very poor to the obscenely wealthy. Cancer and disease do not discriminate.

If the cure was there and so easily obtainable, do you not think the earth would be virtually cancer-free?? COME ON! SERIOUSLY?!?! Geeeezzzz...

I'm sorry. Someone had to say it. Because, well... SCIENCE.

Thank you!

 

[ruby59]

This is how brainwashed people have become. Someone (a MEDICAL doctor no less) can explain , not just say, but explain how they healed themselves and you cry foul. Unreal.

As for the writer of the book, his credentials, or lack there of mean nothing. All he did was detective work. He put all the information in one place to make it clear and coherent. He has a multitude of references, and as I said earlier, from actual senate hearings. (I have actually read this book) but I'm sure governmental hearings mean nothing either, right? The truth on so many things is right in front of your faces. I really hope you see it someday.

I know whatever I say doesn't matter, you're not going to hear it. That's ok though, I'm not posting for the ones who won't, I'm posting for the ones who will.

GAWD... these posts are getting ridiculous. As has been mentioned before, believe what you want... but don't label everyone else "misinformed".

To say that cancer can simply be cured with diet and lifestyle modifications is absurd. Countless people (and animals) suffer tremendously and die each day to cancer. Of those unfortunate souls include the very poor to the obscenely wealthy. Cancer and disease do not discriminate.

If the cure was there and so easily obtainable, do you not think the earth would be virtually cancer-free?? COME ON! SERIOUSLY?!?! Geeeezzzz...

I'm sorry. Someone had to say it. Because, well... SCIENCE.

My BIL died at the age of 52 from cancer that started in his lungs and spread to his brain. Being around 2nd hand smoke as an asthmatic child did that to him, and no diet could have saved him from the inevitable.

I am a diabetic. I am very careful with what I eat and exercise often. I can stabilize my glucose, but I will always be a diabetic.

 

[Ellen]

Scurvy - vitamin deficiency finally brought under control after killing millions, by VITAMIN C

Pellagra - a vitamin deficiency disease most frequently caused by a lack of NIACIN in the diet

Rickets - caused by an extreme and prolonged VITAMIN D deficiency

Beriberi - disease caused by a VITAMIN B1 (THIAMINE) deficiency

Night blindness - VITAMIN A deficiency

Pernicious anemia - a type of VITAMIN B12 anemia

Biotin deficiency - caused by a lack of VITAMIN B7 (BIOTIN)

Ariboflavinosis - caused by a lack of VITAMIN B2

Hypocobalaminemia - caused by a VITAMIN B12 deficiency

Paraesthesia - caused by a deficiency in VITAMIN B5


All of these diseases (and more) were cured by a simple vitamin. This is a scientific fact. And had someone not figured it out in each case, they would still be killing /maiming millions of people. So yeah, food and vitamins do heal diseases. And yeah, they can heal cancer too.

 

[Matata]

Scurvy - vitamin deficiency finally brought under control after killing millions, by VITAMIN C

Pellagra - a vitamin deficiency disease most frequently caused by a lack of NIACIN in the diet

Rickets - caused by an extreme and prolonged VITAMIN D deficiency

Beriberi - disease caused by a VITAMIN B1 (THIAMINE) deficiency

Night blindness - VITAMIN A deficiency

Pernicious anemia - a type of VITAMIN B12 anemia

Biotin deficiency - caused by a lack of VITAMIN B7 (BIOTIN)

Ariboflavinosis - caused by a lack of VITAMIN B2

Hypocobalaminemia - caused by a VITAMIN B12 deficiency

Paraesthesia - caused by a deficiency in VITAMIN B5


All of these diseases (and more) were cured by a simple vitamin. This is a scientific fact. And had someone not figured it out in each case, they would still be killing /maiming millions of people. So yeah, food and vitamins do heal diseases. And yeah, they can heal cancer too.

They are caused by a vitamin deficiency; obviously the cure is to restore that which is missing/deficient. That is a whole different animal from diseases such as HIV/AIDS, Zika, Ebola, Tuberculosis, the flu and inherited diseases passed on by genes.

I believe that a healthy diet (if that's even possible considering air and water pollution and Monsanto) and exercise contribute to the ability to forestall disease.

 

[OreoRosies86]

Funny how people's definition of "brainwashed" can vary.

 

[missy]

Ellen, I agree with you about food and how eating properly is key to good health. Food can be good medicine that way I agree.

However, not everything can be cured or fixed or healed with a good diet and exercise. If only that could be true. There are too many diseases that cannot be healed just with food alone.

I do agree however that good food/proper diet/proper exercise etc is critical to good health. Necessary but not always sufficient. If only it could be that would be lovely but it just isn't. I am a big believer in both Eastern and Western medicine coming together for a more holistic healthy approach to life in general and it can be a powerful tool. It just doesn't always tell the whole story and nor can it make everyone healthy.

You make some good points though and I always appreciate hearing your thoughts. It is just much more complicated than simply a healthy diet and lifestyle though that can go a long way.

 

[Tekate]

Funny how people's definition of "brainwashed" can vary.

Yeah, we should tell my little brother! oops he died of lung cancer a year ago. All the good food, good medicine, chanting, chemo. he died, he died right after telling a joke!.

I will say: thinking that chemo is a panacea is wrong, at least for my brother's case. I think chemo sped up his death, not only killing the tumor(s) but his liver and kidneys.. My mother lived 4 years with lung cancer without any chemo, my brother 2.. if I get lung cancer (we were all current or ex smokers).. if it's stage 3 or 4 I'm not getting chemo. Nope. I think chemo has its place, especially in the early found cancers.

 

[ksinger]

Funny how people's definition of "brainwashed" can vary.

Yeah, we should tell my little brother! oops he died of lung cancer a year ago. All the good food, good medicine, chanting, chemo. he died, he died right after telling a joke!.

I will say: thinking that chemo is a panacea is wrong, at least for my brother's case. I think chemo sped up his death, not only killing the tumor(s) but his liver and kidneys.. My mother lived 4 years with lung cancer without any chemo, my brother 2.. if I get lung cancer (we were all current or ex smokers).. if it's stage 3 or 4 I'm not getting chemo. Nope. I think chemo has its place, especially in the early found cancers.

People with advanced cancer are making tough choices amongst nothing but crap choices. My SIL has 2 small children and is too young to not want to fight. Anyone who has done chemo knows it is not a panacea, and it's pretty awful. I've sat with my SIL quite a few times as she receives various infusions, the side effects of which, can be quite brutal. But for now she is willing to endure for her family. The day may come when she makes a different choice.

 

[ksinger]

OK...about Terry Wahls....

Terry Wahls is wrong at worst, and makes overblown unproven claims, at best. And proof that simply having an MD behind your name does not necessarily make one proof against generally piss poor reasoning and motivated reasoning. She is also very likely greed driven in her flogging of her “cure” all the time. How much money has she made from her books I wonder? Her seminars? Hey, the 2017 Walhs Protocol Seminar is now marked down to the rock-bottom price of $1097 from $1897!!

But first, why is she so off the rails?

Because the first thing that people with MS learn, is that MS is “the snowflake disease”. While there are certain common symptoms, no one has the same set, and there really is no standard course of how it develops, and no standard med or combination of meds for each case. At first it often looks like you are completely healed of whatever happened to you (in your 20s and 30s, often an attack of optic neuritis for instance) but the process is working quietly in the background. Until it rears its head again dramatically, say 10 years later. Often this is when the diagnosis is finally made, many years from the first fleeting and quickly forgotten symptom. For some it’s dramatic and active from the start. There’s just no predicting how it will unfold, which is a source of frustration for both patient and doctor.

Measuring disease progression is difficult. At this point in time, the only real method they can use to track if the disease is quiet or not, other than some ghastly new symptom, is looking for new lesions in spine or brain with a MRI. This is a limited measure but it is the current gold standard. It loses its power eventually though, since at some point, virtually all with MS move to a point where there are no new lesions yet the decline continues. It’s almost as if there are 2 disease processes going on, although I suspect it’s more that the current technology is only able to easily see the big inflammatory lesions. Meanwhile total brain volume is diminishing. (So my posts will get dumber and dumber as time passes. )

So, back to Wahls. Her claims are, quite simply, overblown. Whether she claims to cure, or reverse, there is no proof of that, which is typical of such dietary cures.

https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT01915433

Here is a link to her ongoing clinical trial. Woo AND hoo. If you peruse it, you will see that it is threefold, purporting to measure 2 different versions of the Wahls diet, along with exercise and neuromuscular electrical stimulation. Well, right there you just blew your study of the diet, since the purported effects of the diet can’t be isolated from the possible effects of the exercise and electrical stimulation. So there’s poor study design from the start.

Then if you look at the primary outcome measure, it is “perceived fatigue”. Seriously? They’ve already shown that exercise can (paradoxically) help with fatigue (not just in MS, but other conditions with chronic fatigue). So again, how to tease apart the two. Plus fatigue, while a large part of MS, is not any sort of measure of actual disease progression. So another hit for the study and Wahl’s claims of reversal from her diet.

There is a long list of secondary outcome measures, almost all of which are self-report and none of which are adequate measures of disease activity, because there is no MRI (see my explanation above about the difficulties of tracking progression). The one semi-reliable measure we have, and it’s NOT THERE. Hmmm. Just to drive home how important a measure MRI can be, (and likely why it was not included) a friend of mine just reported an acquaintance of hers has been following the Wahl’s diet, and yet her last MRI showed 2 new lesions. The acquaintance is not happy, as you might imagine. All lesions, even the silent or “ineloquent” ones - that occur in places that cause no new symptoms, are evidence that the disease is still active and eating your brain. So, Walh’s claims of even slowing the disease, can’t be checked in any meaningful way by her own study! And it’s actually much more complex than that, but I’ve typed too much as is.

Also good to note that the study’s inclusion criteria assumes access to the types of food required the the ability to absorb a 30% increase in grocery bill, which would not be any easier than a big monthly medical bill for a lot of people.

So, if you’re well-heeled and want to try to reduce your fatigue and improve your perceived quality of life, then by all means go for it. I would never tell you otherwise. Quality of life is of great importance, but defining that quality of life is pretty personal. It is not a path I would be willing to take, for several reasons I won't bore you with here, but also because I personally know too many people who have tried too many dietary things that did not work, either for fatigue or for progression (as measured by MRI and big nasty new symptoms).

 

[Matata]

ksinger, I respect, admire, and appreciate you.

 

[ksinger]

ksinger, I respect, admire, and appreciate you.

Aww thanks Matata. Clearly we have a mutual admiration thing going on. And booze...

However, don't love on me too much - I am not ruling out going cyber-postal in here just yet. Promotion of simplistic science-y claptrap and conspiracy theories, does tend to get my dander up.

Hey...wait...my dander is up. I feel energized! Eureka! That's it!! (smacking head) I should just come here and fight a bunch! MS fatigue cured!

Oh...wait...no. Sorry, dander just hit the floor again. Never mind.

 

[missy]

I wish we had women like Matata and Ksinger running for President! Ladies, can we start planning for a 2020 election campaign?


And I didn't mean to leave out any other smart politically savvy PS women. C'mon PSers we need you!!!


Oh and here is the latest. Started a new thread and then realized maybe I should have just added it here.

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/senate-gop-clears-key-hurdle-obamacare-repeal/story?id=44726333

 

[Tekate]

Funny how people's definition of "brainwashed" can vary.

Yeah, we should tell my little brother! oops he died of lung cancer a year ago. All the good food, good medicine, chanting, chemo. he died, he died right after telling a joke!.

I will say: thinking that chemo is a panacea is wrong, at least for my brother's case. I think chemo sped up his death, not only killing the tumor(s) but his liver and kidneys.. My mother lived 4 years with lung cancer without any chemo, my brother 2.. if I get lung cancer (we were all current or ex smokers).. if it's stage 3 or 4 I'm not getting chemo. Nope. I think chemo has its place, especially in the early found cancers.

People with advanced cancer are making tough choices amongst nothing but crap choices. My SIL has 2 small children and is too young to not want to fight. Anyone who has done chemo knows it is not a panacea, and it's pretty awful. I've sat with my SIL quite a few times as she receives various infusions, the side effects of which, can be quite brutal. But for now she is willing to endure for her family. The day may come when she makes a different choice.

Yes I totally agree with what you write you in the beginning chemo slowed down and even destroyed some tumors in my brother. He was diagnosed at stage IV B, it had already spread to his adrenal gland and liver tumors, he had a tumor so large that it had stopped the blood supply to his right arm. and for the rest of his life he had to take a blood thinner. His cancer was so far gone when diagnosed, that I believe chemo did extend his life, what happened was his wife pushed and pushed for more to the point where the treatments were doing more damage to him than the cancer. The pain was so great that he spent the last 5 months of his life totally zoned out, hard to communicate with him due to morphine etc. A total clusterf---k....

I think your SIL is right to fight to live, I would, and I think colon cancer has a higher cure rate than lung. I sincerely hope she beats and she can with good medicine, good food, and especially good, loving people to support her in her fight. I send you a hug, you are a good SIL.. the best kind.

 

[Tekate]

I wish we had women like Matata and Ksinger running for President! Ladies, can we start planning for a 2020 election campaign?


And I didn't mean to leave out any other smart politically savvy PS women. C'mon PSers we need you!!!


Oh and here is the latest. Started a new thread and then realized maybe I should have just added it here.

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/senate-gop-clears-key-hurdle-obamacare-repeal/story?id=44726333

They have mine Missy!!! we need young women, women who believe in the good of our neighbors. Believe a helping hand during a terrible downturn isn't a bad thing.. When I started at IBM at the dawn my time IBM had a saying: "Respect for the Individual".. we need a president like that.

 

[ksinger]

I wish we had women like Matata and Ksinger running for President! Ladies, can we start planning for a 2020 election campaign?


And I didn't mean to leave out any other smart politically savvy PS women. C'mon PSers we need you!!!


Oh and here is the latest. Started a new thread and then realized maybe I should have just added it here.

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/senate-gop-clears-key-hurdle-obamacare-repeal/story?id=44726333

They have mine Missy!!! we need young women, women who believe in the good of our neighbors. Believe a helping hand during a terrible downturn isn't a bad thing.. When I started at IBM at the dawn my time IBM had a saying: "Respect for the Individual".. we need a president like that.

Ha ha! Well, if young is a prerequisite, I'm immediately disqualified. According to the SS Administration, I'm "approaching advanced age"
(d) Person closely approaching advanced age. If you are closely approaching advanced age (age 50-54), we will consider that your age along with a severe impairment(s) and limited work experience may seriously affect your ability to adjust to other work.

Kinda insulting I thought (huffily), but hey, whatever. I'm too tired to argue, and that's a fact.

So, I'm NOT running for any office, so just get that out of your heads!!!!!! NOT!! Silly ladies.

We are however, involved in local politics and support local politicians. More immediate and more bang for your participation. We just attended a fundraiser for a guy who is running for a local school board, in our attempts to put a finger in the overflowing dike of the death of public education going on here in Oklahoma. It is soon to be dying pretty much everywhere I fear.

However, I think my motto would be, "respect for the common good", a concept that has been given short shrift in these times of hyper-individualism.