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"Snatching Healthcare Away From Millions"

AGBF

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This column by Paul Krugman really made me despair. As if I needed anything more to make me despair. I thought of ksinger posting that she would soon be among the uninsured and uninsurable. We currently have a health care program where people cannot be denied care due to pre-existing conditions. It really didn't have to be this way. Excerpted below.

"Snatching Health Care Away From Millions
Paul Krugman DEC. 30, 2016


"If James Comey, the F.B.I. director, hadn’t tipped the scales in the campaign’s final days with that grotesquely misleading letter, right now an incoming Clinton administration would be celebrating some very good news. Because health reform, President Obama’s signature achievement, is stabilizing after a bumpy year.

This means that the huge gains achieved so far — tens of millions of newly insured Americans and dramatic reductions in the number of people skipping treatment or facing financial hardship because of cost — look as if they’re here to stay.

Or they would be here to stay if the man who squeaked into power thanks to Mr. Comey and Vladimir Putin wasn’t determined to betray his supporters, and snatch away the health care they need.

To appreciate the good news about Obamacare you need to understand where the earlier bad news came from. Premiums on the exchanges, the insurance marketplaces created by the Affordable Care Act, did indeed rise sharply this year, because insurers were losing money. But this wasn’t because of a surge in overall medical costs, which have risen much more slowly since the act was passed than they did before. It reflected, instead, the mix of people signing up — fewer healthy, low-cost people than expected, more people with chronic health issues.

The question was whether this was a one-time adjustment or the start of a “death spiral,” in which higher premiums would drive healthy Americans out of the market, further worsening the mix, leading to even higher premiums, and so on.

And the answer is that it looks like a one-shot affair. Despite higher premiums, enrollments in the exchanges are running ahead of their levels a year ago; no death spiral here. Meanwhile, analysts are reporting substantial financial improvement for insurers: The premium hikes are doing the job, ending their losses.

In other words, Obamacare hit a bump in the road, but appears to be back on track.

But will it be killed anyway?...."


Link...http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/30/opinion/snatching-health-care-away-from-millions.html?action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=opinion-c-col-left-region&region=opinion-c-col-left-region&WT.nav=opinion-c-col-left-region&_r=0

AGBF
 

ruby59

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Messages
3,553
AGBF|1483138785|4110886 said:
This column by Paul Krugman really made me despair. As if I needed anything more to make me despair. I thought of ksinger posting that she would soon be among the uninsured and uninsurable. We currently have a health care program where people cannot be denied care due to pre-existing conditions. It really didn't have to be this way. Excerpted below.

"Snatching Health Care Away From Millions
Paul Krugman DEC. 30, 2016


"If James Comey, the F.B.I. director, hadn’t tipped the scales in the campaign’s final days with that grotesquely misleading letter, right now an incoming Clinton administration would be celebrating some very good news. Because health reform, President Obama’s signature achievement, is stabilizing after a bumpy year.

This means that the huge gains achieved so far — tens of millions of newly insured Americans and dramatic reductions in the number of people skipping treatment or facing financial hardship because of cost — look as if they’re here to stay.

Or they would be here to stay if the man who squeaked into power thanks to Mr. Comey and Vladimir Putin wasn’t determined to betray his supporters, and snatch away the health care they need.

To appreciate the good news about Obamacare you need to understand where the earlier bad news came from. Premiums on the exchanges, the insurance marketplaces created by the Affordable Care Act, did indeed rise sharply this year, because insurers were losing money. But this wasn’t because of a surge in overall medical costs, which have risen much more slowly since the act was passed than they did before. It reflected, instead, the mix of people signing up — fewer healthy, low-cost people than expected, more people with chronic health issues.

The question was whether this was a one-time adjustment or the start of a “death spiral,” in which higher premiums would drive healthy Americans out of the market, further worsening the mix, leading to even higher premiums, and so on.

And the answer is that it looks like a one-shot affair. Despite higher premiums, enrollments in the exchanges are running ahead of their levels a year ago; no death spiral here. Meanwhile, analysts are reporting substantial financial improvement for insurers: The premium hikes are doing the job, ending their losses.

In other words, Obamacare hit a bump in the road, but appears to be back on track.

But will it be killed anyway?...."


Link...http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/30/opinion/snatching-health-care-away-from-millions.html?action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=opinion-c-col-left-region&region=opinion-c-col-left-region&WT.nav=opinion-c-col-left-region&_r=0

AGBF
There are 2 sides to that. Hard working people who did not qualify for any subsidiaries forced into crappy policies with high deductibles at ever increasing prices.
 

maccers

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It's a human right that everyone have access to free/affordable healthcare. The US system of health care continues to be broken but I absolutely applaud Obama for taking the initial steps to making the healthcare system available to everyone. One cannot create a new system for healthcare without some massive growing pains. Obama looked towards the future and understood that a new system was required to keep future generations of Americans in health. I expect that Trump will undo much of this. My heart breaks for America. So many of the systems that are meant to help people grow and prosper are outdated and broken (eg health, education, justice etc).
 

OreoRosies86

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.
 

OreoRosies86

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People have a right not to die or go bankrupt because they can't afford the bill. That "Me me me mine mine mine" mentality drove this country and an entire generation into a future of crippling debt with no way out. Society has a total breakdown when people only think of themselves.
 

missy

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I agree completely Elliott with you and the other posters. Good Healthcare should be a right and not a privilege. No question about it. And I don't mind paying more for everyone to have the right to good Healthcare. I just don't know how to make it work for all. Wish the politicians could figure it out. We all deserve it. Right not a privilege.


As it stands a critical med for me is no longer covered as of tomorrow. I am grateful I can afford it but it will hurt. And this med should be covered but again how to make it work for all. I just don't know. ::)
 

ruby59

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Elliot86|1483194488|4111037 said:
People have a right not to die or go bankrupt because they can't afford the bill. That "Me me me mine mine mine" mentality drove this country and an entire generation into a future of crippling debt with no way out. Society has a total breakdown when people only think of themselves.

Yes, the me me generation of hard working Americans who do not qualify for subsidiaries who are paying exorbitant prices they can barely afford.

My husband and I are at an age where we should be thinking about retirement, not subsidizing the able bodied. But with a $5,000 deductible, we can't.

So with my preexisting conditions, we either work or die, because in our families we were not raised to demand that others take care of us.

Society should care for the old, infirm, mentally challenged. Not lazy people.
 

OreoRosies86

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ruby59|1483195679|4111044 said:
Elliot86|1483194488|4111037 said:
People have a right not to die or go bankrupt because they can't afford the bill. That "Me me me mine mine mine" mentality drove this country and an entire generation into a future of crippling debt with no way out. Society has a total breakdown when people only think of themselves.

Yes, the me me generation of hard working Americans who do not qualify for subsidiaries who are paying exorbitant prices they can barely afford.

My husband and I are at an age where we should be thinking about retirement, not subsidizing the able bodied. But with a $5,000 deductible, we can't.

So with my preexisting conditions, we either work or die, because in our families we were not raised to demand that others take care of us.

Society should care for the old, infirm, mentally challenged. Not lazy people.
Ruby all I can tell you is that you've lived a perfect life and raised perfect children and have a preternatural understanding of every single person in the world, their ability or inability to work, and everything in general. You truly should have run for president yourself.
 

Calliecake

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Elliot86|1483194488|4111037 said:
People have a right not to die or go bankrupt because they can't afford the bill. That "Me me me mine mine mine" mentality drove this country and an entire generation into a future of crippling debt with no way out. Society has a total breakdown when people only think of themselves.

So true Elliott.
 

redwood66

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People should have access to healthcare that is affordable. The ACA is not that. There is too much corruption in government (both parties), insurance companies, lobbyists, etc. to truly make that happen. That is what we all should be upset about. Not coming here being nasty to someone you don't even know because they do not agree with you. You'd think that the posters on PS could fix all of the world's problems the way some of them talk.

And Elliott since you are so intelligent and know everything about everything maybe you should have run for president. :wavey:
 

Dancing Fire

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redwood66|1483201540|4111062 said:
People should have access to healthcare that is affordable. The ACA is not that. There is too much corruption in government (both parties), insurance companies, lobbyists, etc. to truly make that happen. That is what we all should be upset about. Not coming here being nasty to someone you don't even know because they do not agree with you. You'd think that the posters on PS could fix all of the world's problems the way some of them talk.

And Elliott since you are so intelligent and know everything about everything maybe you should have run for president. :wavey:
:shhh: liberals can do no wrong!.. :wink2:
 

Efe

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The ACA has given affordable, if not free, healthcare to a segment of the population, which is a good thing. It has also provided a health insurance card, which is not the same as healthcare, to another segment of the population by providing them with subsidies for premium payments but no help with ridiculous deductibles ($7,000 in 2017). Lastly, it has taken insurance away from a segment of the population, including myself, who are not insured though an employer, not old enough for Medicare, and who make too much to qualify for subsidies (where I live a family of 2 making over $65,000 a year).

I am 58 years old and as of tomorrow I will not have health insurance for the first time in my life. We simply cannot afford healthcare premiums that are more than our mortgage payment. This is with my husband now on Medicare. We have cut back in every area, tried to sell our house, and couldn't and have no other options available. How is this remotely fair?

I have spent over $19,000 in premiums since the ACA became law. I have used roughly $200 in services. I don't have regular doctor visits and don't take any maintenance drugs. The one prescription I did take was $75 through insurance and $29.32 though GoodRX. Guess which one I used.

Lastly, since the ACA uses Modified Adjusted Gross Income (MAGI) for subsidy eligibility, it has enabled early retirees who choose to live very simple lives (some in their early 30s), to convert retirement accounts to ROTH accounts (deductions from ROTHs do not count toward MAGI, keep their other income below cut off levels for subsidies and special cost sharing options that allow them to have dirt cheap rates. Some of them are millionaires and have their children on state support (Medicaid). They intend to do this as long as they can legally get away with it. It is just completely ridiculous.
 

Matata

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You want affordable health care then vote for a single-payer system; prepare to take on the most profitable industries in the US (pharma, medical producst/equipment companies, insurance companies, private medical research firms) and don't forget to convince US doctors that they should make a lot less money in their professions. That's part of what it will take for everyone to enjoy the "right" of affordable health care -- oh, and maybe we'll all have to pay huge amounts of tax into a system similar to those that work so well in some European countries and Canada. I would gladly do that but it will take a monumental change in the fundamentals that we hold so dear -- such as changing our outlook on exercise and the amounts of junk food and processed crap we put in our food. Making hard decisions about end of life care, whether we should spend millions keeping preemies and old people alive when so many in the middle of that spectrum lack quality care. Nothing good is going to happen unless there is a fundamental change in our overall economic outlook -- that being, no one should get rich from sick people.

An aside .... 2 years ago while in Scotland, I woke up on a Saturday morning desperately in need of a chiropractor. Found one who worked on Saturdays. When I phoned and told him I was from the States and in dire straights, he squeezed me in. Spent 2 hrs working on me -- stretching and adjusting. Cost: $90 US. I asked him how much time he typically spends per patient and he said nothing less than 30 minutes depending on patient needs. When I told him how much my chiro in the US charged, I thought he was going to faint.

My chiro here has never spent more than 15 minutes with me and that included the initial intake during my first appointment. I'm usually there 10 minutes. She gets $220 for 15 minutes work; sees 4 to 5 patients an hour 8 days a week. She works 10 hrs per day. My insurance covers all but $20 per visit. She always looks harried and I always feel rushed although I know she would spend more time if I asked.

I told her about the differences between the care I got in Scotland and what she provides and she acknowledged that she has been thinking of making the visits longer. But hey, she's got 2 kids to pay for and 3 clinics to manage. The doc in Scotland has subsidized housing and free health care.
 

redwood66

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Our system is definitely screwed up. I have health care through my employer. In 2006 I had to have back surgery and the total cost was $26K for hospital fees for an outpatient surgery. My surgeon billed the insurance $5500 and per the EOB he was paid the contracted amount of $1500. His assistant billed $1600 and was paid around $450. What kind of system is that? No wonder the doctors have to see 30-40 patients a day to meet their overhead and pay themselves. The insurance companies have too much power over everything.
 

smitcompton

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Hi,

I would like to clarify for Effe some information on Roth IRA's . It seems to me to be misleading to those that are reading. Financial advisors are recommending Roth IRAs more now than regular IRAs. The income tax has already been paid on the Roth, whereas, the income tax on an ordinary IRA is postponed until the owner takes it out after age 59. So, the Roth has no income that is taxable and will not be counted toward the income requirements for ACA. There is nothing deceitful, tricky or otherwise shady about it. The tax has already been paid on income earned in prior years.

The ACA may be done away with, but the plan as I understand it, is to keep it going until such a time as a new one is written. No one will lose their insurance until a new plan is voted on.

Me, me , me , mine, mine, goes two ways. I see the budget deficit coming from the very things you all say you want. Liberals, I want, I want, its my right, is tiring. Conservatives, it cost too much is equally tiring. We can't afford everything that everyone desires. If you're poor and on Medicaid you do get everything free (almost).(and even taxi service. Its the middleclass that s hurting. Lets not forget that.

Annette
 

OreoRosies86

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redwood66|1483201540|4111062 said:
People should have access to healthcare that is affordable. The ACA is not that. There is too much corruption in government (both parties), insurance companies, lobbyists, etc. to truly make that happen. That is what we all should be upset about. Not coming here being nasty to someone you don't even know because they do not agree with you. You'd think that the posters on PS could fix all of the world's problems the way some of them talk.

And Elliott since you are so intelligent and know everything about everything maybe you should have run for president. :wavey:
Do me a favor Redwood. Glance ever so slightly to the right of your screen. See the colorful array of emojis? There are dozens there to choose from. Does your computer or device only show the passive aggressive wavey guy? It would seem so. You should look into it.

Happy new year!
 

Efe

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Messages
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smitcompton|1483206897|4111086 said:
Hi,

I would like to clarify for Effe some information on Roth IRA's . It seems to me to be misleading to those that are reading. Financial advisors are recommending Roth IRAs more now than regular IRAs. The income tax has already been paid on the Roth, whereas, the income tax on an ordinary IRA is postponed until the owner takes it out after age 59. So, the Roth has no income that is taxable and will not be counted toward the income requirements for ACA. There is nothing deceitful, tricky or otherwise shady about it. The tax has already been paid on income earned in prior years.

The ACA may be done away with, but the plan as I understand it, is to keep it going until such a time as a new one is written. No one will lose their insurance until a new plan is voted on.

Me, me , me , mine, mine, goes two ways. I see the budget deficit coming from the very things you all say you want. Liberals, I want, I want, its my right, is tiring. Conservatives, it cost too much is equally tiring. We can't afford everything that everyone desires. If you're poor and on Medicaid you do get everything free (almost).(and even taxi service. Its the middleclass that s hurting. Lets not forget that.

Annette
Thank you for clarifying. I did know that and when I reread what I wrote, it did appear that I was talking about people under 59 using Roth conversion as a tool for their subsidies. People 59 and older, who are retired, are using it as a means to keep their income low enough to qualify for subsidies and cost sharing and then using Roth money for living expenses that exceed what their MAGI provides for.
 

redwood66

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Elliot86|1483207638|4111094 said:
redwood66|1483201540|4111062 said:
People should have access to healthcare that is affordable. The ACA is not that. There is too much corruption in government (both parties), insurance companies, lobbyists, etc. to truly make that happen. That is what we all should be upset about. Not coming here being nasty to someone you don't even know because they do not agree with you. You'd think that the posters on PS could fix all of the world's problems the way some of them talk.

And Elliott since you are so intelligent and know everything about everything maybe you should have run for president. :wavey:
Do me a favor Redwood. Glance ever so slightly to the right of your screen. See the colorful array of emojis? There are dozens there to choose from. Does your computer or device only show the passive aggressive wavey guy? It would seem so. You should look into it.

Happy new year!
As the Pot calls Kettle black.

You have a happy new year also.
 

diamondseeker2006

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Matata|1483204818|4111077 said:
You want affordable health care then vote for a single-payer system; prepare to take on the most profitable industries in the US (pharma, medical producst/equipment companies, insurance companies, private medical research firms) and don't forget to convince US doctors that they should make a lot less money in their professions. That's part of what it will take for everyone to enjoy the "right" of affordable health care -- oh, and maybe we'll all have to pay huge amounts of tax into a system similar to those that work so well in some European countries and Canada. I would gladly do that but it will take a monumental change in the fundamentals that we hold so dear -- such as changing our outlook on exercise and the amounts of junk food and processed crap we put in our food. Making hard decisions about end of life care, whether we should spend millions keeping preemies and old people alive when so many in the middle of that spectrum lack quality care. Nothing good is going to happen unless there is a fundamental change in our overall economic outlook -- that being, no one should get rich from sick people.

An aside .... 2 years ago while in Scotland, I woke up on a Saturday morning desperately in need of a chiropractor. Found one who worked on Saturdays. When I phoned and told him I was from the States and in dire straights, he squeezed me in. Spent 2 hrs working on me -- stretching and adjusting. Cost: $90 US. I asked him how much time he typically spends per patient and he said nothing less than 30 minutes depending on patient needs. When I told him how much my chiro in the US charged, I thought he was going to faint.

My chiro here has never spent more than 15 minutes with me and that included the initial intake during my first appointment. I'm usually there 10 minutes. She gets $220 for 15 minutes work; sees 4 to 5 patients an hour 8 days a week. She works 10 hrs per day. My insurance covers all but $20 per visit. She always looks harried and I always feel rushed although I know she would spend more time if I asked.

I told her about the differences between the care I got in Scotland and what she provides and she acknowledged that she has been thinking of making the visits longer. But hey, she's got 2 kids to pay for and 3 clinics to manage. The doc in Scotland has subsidized housing and free health care.
Whew, I can't remember exactly where you live, but my son-in-law is a chiropractor in the US and he makes a small fraction of $220 per 15 minute visit. Since he is self-employed, he is one that has to buy private health insurance and can only afford the most basic, very high deductible policy, which is far worse than what he had before ACA and costs far more. If I didn't want my grandchildren nearby, I might suggest he move to where you live! :lol: (Although, it is likely your cost of living there is much higher than here, as well.)

I agree that every citizen of the US should be able to access essential healthcare, but there are problems such as insane pharmaceutical prices and excessive hospital charges that apparently need some regulation. I do not believe doctor pay is the problem. Good doctors earn their pay.
 

ksinger

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diamondseeker2006|1483213041|4111129 said:
Matata|1483204818|4111077 said:
You want affordable health care then vote for a single-payer system; prepare to take on the most profitable industries in the US (pharma, medical producst/equipment companies, insurance companies, private medical research firms) and don't forget to convince US doctors that they should make a lot less money in their professions. That's part of what it will take for everyone to enjoy the "right" of affordable health care -- oh, and maybe we'll all have to pay huge amounts of tax into a system similar to those that work so well in some European countries and Canada. I would gladly do that but it will take a monumental change in the fundamentals that we hold so dear -- such as changing our outlook on exercise and the amounts of junk food and processed crap we put in our food. Making hard decisions about end of life care, whether we should spend millions keeping preemies and old people alive when so many in the middle of that spectrum lack quality care. Nothing good is going to happen unless there is a fundamental change in our overall economic outlook -- that being, no one should get rich from sick people.

An aside .... 2 years ago while in Scotland, I woke up on a Saturday morning desperately in need of a chiropractor. Found one who worked on Saturdays. When I phoned and told him I was from the States and in dire straights, he squeezed me in. Spent 2 hrs working on me -- stretching and adjusting. Cost: $90 US. I asked him how much time he typically spends per patient and he said nothing less than 30 minutes depending on patient needs. When I told him how much my chiro in the US charged, I thought he was going to faint.

My chiro here has never spent more than 15 minutes with me and that included the initial intake during my first appointment. I'm usually there 10 minutes. She gets $220 for 15 minutes work; sees 4 to 5 patients an hour 8 days a week. She works 10 hrs per day. My insurance covers all but $20 per visit. She always looks harried and I always feel rushed although I know she would spend more time if I asked.

I told her about the differences between the care I got in Scotland and what she provides and she acknowledged that she has been thinking of making the visits longer. But hey, she's got 2 kids to pay for and 3 clinics to manage. The doc in Scotland has subsidized housing and free health care.
Whew, I can't remember exactly where you live, but my son-in-law is a chiropractor in the US and he makes a small fraction of $220 per 15 minute visit. Since he is self-employed, he is one that has to buy private health insurance and can only afford the most basic, very high deductible policy, which is far worse than what he had before ACA and costs far more. If I didn't want my grandchildren nearby, I might suggest he move to where you live! :lol: (Although, it is likely your cost of living there is much higher than here, as well.)

I agree that every citizen of the US should be able to access essential healthcare, but there are problems such as insane pharmaceutical prices and excessive hospital charges that apparently need some regulation. I do not believe doctor pay is the problem. Good doctors earn their pay.
And sometimes those good doctors, get a truckload of payments from the pharmaceutical companies, who throw tons of money around and market directly to the patients. Under the guise of "education" of course. :rolleyes: (I have stories, believe me.) MS docs are some of the worst, I promise.

Yes, there needs to be regulation. Alas, in these "everything will be better when privatized" times, that is not going to happen. De-reg is still the flavor, because the right people make money then. Just let the Great and Glorious Hand of The Market take care of it....it'll be fine.

Enjoy checking out your docs, you guys!
https://openpaymentsdata.cms.gov
 

Matata

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losers.png
 

partgypsy

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I am biased because I work for the VA. Written in 2012, but still true today. In face the VA has had made huge strides in clearing the backlog, ending homelessness for veterans, and in suicide reach-out programs, all while serving more veterans than ever before.

http://www.rand.org/blog/2012/08/socialized-or-not-we-can-learn-from-the-va.html

People who receive socialized medicine get better care, at lower cost than privatized health care. The ACA is the right step, but it could have been a lot better. What happened? Lobbyists lobbied to have a bunch of stuff put into it (for example that the Government could not negotiate as a group for lower medicine costs, etc) that many many other countries with socialized medicine do. So if you are not happy with the ACA, blame the lawmakers who larded the ACA with things that primarily the health insurance and drug companies lobbied for, for their profit margin and against the best interest of Americans and their health.

Other people may note, well, what does it matter if other people do not have health insurance as long as I am insured? The reason is that the overall health of a country is affected by the disparity in health outcomes of all its population. That is why it's called "public health". The fact that a certain percentage of children and people do not get immunized, that the city bus driver, highway truck driver does not have his/her blood sugar under control, that there are many children whom your children go to school who did not get the benefit of prenatal care, affects ALL of us. And study after study has shown that socialized medicine provides more coverage, more cost-effectively, with more continuity and preventative care, than privatized or HMO, care does.
 

ruby59

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part gypsy|1483724143|4112984 said:
I am biased because I work for the VA. Written in 2012, but still true today. In face the VA has had made huge strides in clearing the backlog, ending homelessness for veterans, and in suicide reach-out programs, all while serving more veterans than ever before.

http://www.rand.org/blog/2012/08/socialized-or-not-we-can-learn-from-the-va.html

People who receive socialized medicine get better care, at lower cost than privatized health care. The ACA is the right step, but it could have been a lot better. What happened? Lobbyists lobbied to have a bunch of stuff put into it (for example that the Government could not negotiate as a group for lower medicine costs, etc) that many many other countries with socialized medicine do. So if you are not happy with the ACA, blame the lawmakers who larded the ACA with things that primarily the health insurance and drug companies lobbied for, for their profit margin and against the best interest of Americans and their health.

Other people may note, well, what does it matter if other people do not have health insurance as long as I am insured? The reason is that the overall health of a country is affected by the disparity in health outcomes of all its population. That is why it's called "public health". The fact that a certain percentage of children and people do not get immunized, that the city bus driver, highway truck driver does not have his/her blood sugar under control, that there are many children whom your children go to school who did not get the benefit of prenatal care, affects ALL of us. And study after study has shown that socialized medicine provides more coverage, more cost-effectively, with more continuity and preventative care, than privatized or HMO, care does.
I agree about the VA getting better at reducing backlog. In 2007 when I was attempting to get aid and attendance for my late mom, it took 2 and 1/2 years and my getting Senator Reed involved in order to get my mother help in paying for her nursing home.

My husband recently applied for his mom, and it took just 6 month for her.

And I do understand about everyone having healthcare. I can sympathize with the truck driver scenario because I am diabetic who tends to be hypoglycemic in the afternoon and have experienced that while driving. Thankfully I have my meds (all generic) and my dextrose tablets.

But you have to also understand that ObamaCare was also preventing people like me from affording healthcare. My husband and I still work, even though it is becoming increasingly more difficult for us. I even took an additional seasonal job to help out with the Holidays. We would never qualify for subsidiaries, but I can tell you that the $5,000 deductible we have meant having to sacrifice other things along the way, which is why I took the second job. So if premiums rose again for us this year, I do not know what else we could have sacrificed to be able to fit it into our budget.

Families like mine are being priced out as well. As much as I would like to help others, my husband and I are doing everything we can just to sustain our own family.
 

ksinger

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Messages
5,078
ruby59|1483727270|4112999 said:
part gypsy|1483724143|4112984 said:
I am biased because I work for the VA. Written in 2012, but still true today. In face the VA has had made huge strides in clearing the backlog, ending homelessness for veterans, and in suicide reach-out programs, all while serving more veterans than ever before.

http://www.rand.org/blog/2012/08/socialized-or-not-we-can-learn-from-the-va.html

People who receive socialized medicine get better care, at lower cost than privatized health care. The ACA is the right step, but it could have been a lot better. What happened? Lobbyists lobbied to have a bunch of stuff put into it (for example that the Government could not negotiate as a group for lower medicine costs, etc) that many many other countries with socialized medicine do. So if you are not happy with the ACA, blame the lawmakers who larded the ACA with things that primarily the health insurance and drug companies lobbied for, for their profit margin and against the best interest of Americans and their health.

Other people may note, well, what does it matter if other people do not have health insurance as long as I am insured? The reason is that the overall health of a country is affected by the disparity in health outcomes of all its population. That is why it's called "public health". The fact that a certain percentage of children and people do not get immunized, that the city bus driver, highway truck driver does not have his/her blood sugar under control, that there are many children whom your children go to school who did not get the benefit of prenatal care, affects ALL of us. And study after study has shown that socialized medicine provides more coverage, more cost-effectively, with more continuity and preventative care, than privatized or HMO, care does.
I agree about the VA getting better at reducing backlog. In 2007 when I was attempting to get aid and attendance for my late mom, it took 2 and 1/2 years and my getting Senator Reed involved in order to get my mother help in paying for her nursing home.

My husband recently applied for his mom, and it took just 6 month for her.

And I do understand about everyone having healthcare. I can sympathize with the truck driver scenario because I am diabetic who tends to be hypoglycemic in the afternoon and have experienced that while driving. Thankfully I have my meds (all generic) and my dextrose tablets.

But you have to also understand that ObamaCare was also preventing people like me from affording healthcare. My husband and I still work, even though it is becoming increasingly more difficult for us. I even took an additional seasonal job to help out with the Holidays. We would never qualify for subsidiaries, but I can tell you that the $5,000 deductible we have meant having to sacrifice other things along the way, which is why I took the second job. So if premiums rose again for us this year, I do not know what else we could have sacrificed to be able to fit it into our budget.

Families like mine are being priced out as well. As much as I would like to help others, my husband and I are doing everything we can just to sustain our own family.
I'm truly curious, what did you have before that was better than the plan you're on now. Was it cheaper premiums, less deductible? Better max out of pocket? All three? Did either of you get it through jobs, or was it outside?
 

ruby59

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Feb 5, 2004
Messages
3,553
ksinger|1483729081|4113011 said:
ruby59|1483727270|4112999 said:
part gypsy|1483724143|4112984 said:
I am biased because I work for the VA. Written in 2012, but still true today. In face the VA has had made huge strides in clearing the backlog, ending homelessness for veterans, and in suicide reach-out programs, all while serving more veterans than ever before.

http://www.rand.org/blog/2012/08/socialized-or-not-we-can-learn-from-the-va.html

People who receive socialized medicine get better care, at lower cost than privatized health care. The ACA is the right step, but it could have been a lot better. What happened? Lobbyists lobbied to have a bunch of stuff put into it (for example that the Government could not negotiate as a group for lower medicine costs, etc) that many many other countries with socialized medicine do. So if you are not happy with the ACA, blame the lawmakers who larded the ACA with things that primarily the health insurance and drug companies lobbied for, for their profit margin and against the best interest of Americans and their health.

Other people may note, well, what does it matter if other people do not have health insurance as long as I am insured? The reason is that the overall health of a country is affected by the disparity in health outcomes of all its population. That is why it's called "public health". The fact that a certain percentage of children and people do not get immunized, that the city bus driver, highway truck driver does not have his/her blood sugar under control, that there are many children whom your children go to school who did not get the benefit of prenatal care, affects ALL of us. And study after study has shown that socialized medicine provides more coverage, more cost-effectively, with more continuity and preventative care, than privatized or HMO, care does.
I agree about the VA getting better at reducing backlog. In 2007 when I was attempting to get aid and attendance for my late mom, it took 2 and 1/2 years and my getting Senator Reed involved in order to get my mother help in paying for her nursing home.

My husband recently applied for his mom, and it took just 6 month for her.

And I do understand about everyone having healthcare. I can sympathize with the truck driver scenario because I am diabetic who tends to be hypoglycemic in the afternoon and have experienced that while driving. Thankfully I have my meds (all generic) and my dextrose tablets.

But you have to also understand that ObamaCare was also preventing people like me from affording healthcare. My husband and I still work, even though it is becoming increasingly more difficult for us. I even took an additional seasonal job to help out with the Holidays. We would never qualify for subsidiaries, but I can tell you that the $5,000 deductible we have meant having to sacrifice other things along the way, which is why I took the second job. So if premiums rose again for us this year, I do not know what else we could have sacrificed to be able to fit it into our budget.

Families like mine are being priced out as well. As much as I would like to help others, my husband and I are doing everything we can just to sustain our own family.
I'm truly curious, what did you have before that was better than the plan you're on now. Was it cheaper premiums, less deductible? Better max out of pocket? All three? Did either of you get it through jobs, or was it outside?
I had Blue Cross through my husband and it was great. They covered my name brand prescriptions. My deductible was $1,400. It was $400 a month for a family plan.

Now I am in United HealthCare. Our deductible is $5,000 a month. My doctor had to switch over all my meds to the generic brands. In my doctor's view, while the active ingredients may be the same, the fillers are not. And that can be a problem when you are a diabetic. Cost is $1,200 a month for family plan.

I had a mammogram like every year. Mine are done with 3 D screening because I have very thick breast tissue. No problem under the old plan. The new plan refuses to cover it because 3D is more expensive. I have a choice - go elsewhere for a cheaper version or pay for it myself.

Eyeglass and dental plan are no where near the old plan. These are important when you are diabetic. I have to be screened for diabetic rhetinopothy (sp) and it is no longer covered. So now instead of going every year I go every 3 years.

Foot care is also important as I have diabetic neuropothy. I put it off.

My husband kept that job and is still working there 35 years later because of the healthcare. He could have made more money elsewhere but because I have preexisting conditions it was worth it. ObamaCare took it all away.

And we were warned that our premiums would go up again this year.
 

Bayek

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
May 11, 2013
Messages
7,374
ruby59|1483729998|4113017 said:
ksinger|1483729081|4113011 said:
ruby59|1483727270|4112999 said:
part gypsy|1483724143|4112984 said:
I am biased because I work for the VA. Written in 2012, but still true today. In face the VA has had made huge strides in clearing the backlog, ending homelessness for veterans, and in suicide reach-out programs, all while serving more veterans than ever before.

http://www.rand.org/blog/2012/08/socialized-or-not-we-can-learn-from-the-va.html

People who receive socialized medicine get better care, at lower cost than privatized health care. The ACA is the right step, but it could have been a lot better. What happened? Lobbyists lobbied to have a bunch of stuff put into it (for example that the Government could not negotiate as a group for lower medicine costs, etc) that many many other countries with socialized medicine do. So if you are not happy with the ACA, blame the lawmakers who larded the ACA with things that primarily the health insurance and drug companies lobbied for, for their profit margin and against the best interest of Americans and their health.

Other people may note, well, what does it matter if other people do not have health insurance as long as I am insured? The reason is that the overall health of a country is affected by the disparity in health outcomes of all its population. That is why it's called "public health". The fact that a certain percentage of children and people do not get immunized, that the city bus driver, highway truck driver does not have his/her blood sugar under control, that there are many children whom your children go to school who did not get the benefit of prenatal care, affects ALL of us. And study after study has shown that socialized medicine provides more coverage, more cost-effectively, with more continuity and preventative care, than privatized or HMO, care does.
I agree about the VA getting better at reducing backlog. In 2007 when I was attempting to get aid and attendance for my late mom, it took 2 and 1/2 years and my getting Senator Reed involved in order to get my mother help in paying for her nursing home.

My husband recently applied for his mom, and it took just 6 month for her.

And I do understand about everyone having healthcare. I can sympathize with the truck driver scenario because I am diabetic who tends to be hypoglycemic in the afternoon and have experienced that while driving. Thankfully I have my meds (all generic) and my dextrose tablets.

But you have to also understand that ObamaCare was also preventing people like me from affording healthcare. My husband and I still work, even though it is becoming increasingly more difficult for us. I even took an additional seasonal job to help out with the Holidays. We would never qualify for subsidiaries, but I can tell you that the $5,000 deductible we have meant having to sacrifice other things along the way, which is why I took the second job. So if premiums rose again for us this year, I do not know what else we could have sacrificed to be able to fit it into our budget.

Families like mine are being priced out as well. As much as I would like to help others, my husband and I are doing everything we can just to sustain our own family.
I'm truly curious, what did you have before that was better than the plan you're on now. Was it cheaper premiums, less deductible? Better max out of pocket? All three? Did either of you get it through jobs, or was it outside?
I had Blue Cross through my husband and it was great. They covered my name brand prescriptions. My deductible was $1,400. It was $400 a month for a family plan.

Now I am in United HealthCare. Our deductible is $5,000 a month. My doctor had to switch over all my meds to the generic brands. In my doctor's view, while the active ingredients may be the same, the fillers are not. And that can be a problem when you are a diabetic. Cost is $1,200 a month for family plan.

I had a mammogram like every year. Mine are done with 3 D screening because I have very thick breast tissue. No problem under the old plan. The new plan refuses to cover it because 3D is more expensive. I have a choice - go elsewhere for a cheaper version or pay for it myself.

Eyeglass and dental plan are no where near the old plan. These are important when you are diabetic. I have to be screened for diabetic rhetinopothy (sp) and it is no longer covered. So now instead of going every year I go every 3 years.

Foot care is also important as I have diabetic neuropothy. I put it off.

My husband kept that job and is still working there 35 years later because of the healthcare. He could have made more money elsewhere but because I have preexisting conditions it was worth it. ObamaCare took it all away.

And we were warned that our premiums would go up again this year.
If you did NOT have Obamacare you wouldn't even be able to get health insurance, you would have had to go to your states catastropic healthcare.. that is terrible.

So here's what Price wants, do you think you will be any better under Cheeto? I don't think so.. The republicans are no panacea and may be worse. I think I have written before here, when a person is insured under their EMPLOYER, the employer pays the bulk of monthly health insurance and ask their employee to share the costs today (used to be free back in the 70s and 80s). If one is on Obamacare they usually don't have any company pulling in the lions share so a person is stuck paying the bulk, but it was a better deal for you because you had a preexisting condition.

The pubs plan:

http://www.thefiscaltimes.com/2016/11/30/8-Big-Changes-Under-Tom-Price-s-Obamacare-Replacement-Plan-0

this week who knows wtf they are gonna do. they yelled about it for 8 years but NEVER presented anything to counter it that is better and more helpful. Unless you are a libertarian or tea party person then you think, oh well every man for himself and too bad you have cancer, I only care about me.
 

ruby59

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Feb 5, 2004
Messages
3,553
Tekate|1483730763|4113021 said:
ruby59|1483729998|4113017 said:
ksinger|1483729081|4113011 said:
ruby59|1483727270|4112999 said:
part gypsy|1483724143|4112984 said:
I am biased because I work for the VA. Written in 2012, but still true today. In face the VA has had made huge strides in clearing the backlog, ending homelessness for veterans, and in suicide reach-out programs, all while serving more veterans than ever before.

http://www.rand.org/blog/2012/08/socialized-or-not-we-can-learn-from-the-va.html

People who receive socialized medicine get better care, at lower cost than privatized health care. The ACA is the right step, but it could have been a lot better. What happened? Lobbyists lobbied to have a bunch of stuff put into it (for example that the Government could not negotiate as a group for lower medicine costs, etc) that many many other countries with socialized medicine do. So if you are not happy with the ACA, blame the lawmakers who larded the ACA with things that primarily the health insurance and drug companies lobbied for, for their profit margin and against the best interest of Americans and their health.

Other people may note, well, what does it matter if other people do not have health insurance as long as I am insured? The reason is that the overall health of a country is affected by the disparity in health outcomes of all its population. That is why it's called "public health". The fact that a certain percentage of children and people do not get immunized, that the city bus driver, highway truck driver does not have his/her blood sugar under control, that there are many children whom your children go to school who did not get the benefit of prenatal care, affects ALL of us. And study after study has shown that socialized medicine provides more coverage, more cost-effectively, with more continuity and preventative care, than privatized or HMO, care does.
I agree about the VA getting better at reducing backlog. In 2007 when I was attempting to get aid and attendance for my late mom, it took 2 and 1/2 years and my getting Senator Reed involved in order to get my mother help in paying for her nursing home.

My husband recently applied for his mom, and it took just 6 month for her.

And I do understand about everyone having healthcare. I can sympathize with the truck driver scenario because I am diabetic who tends to be hypoglycemic in the afternoon and have experienced that while driving. Thankfully I have my meds (all generic) and my dextrose tablets.

But you have to also understand that ObamaCare was also preventing people like me from affording healthcare. My husband and I still work, even though it is becoming increasingly more difficult for us. I even took an additional seasonal job to help out with the Holidays. We would never qualify for subsidiaries, but I can tell you that the $5,000 deductible we have meant having to sacrifice other things along the way, which is why I took the second job. So if premiums rose again for us this year, I do not know what else we could have sacrificed to be able to fit it into our budget.

Families like mine are being priced out as well. As much as I would like to help others, my husband and I are doing everything we can just to sustain our own family.
I'm truly curious, what did you have before that was better than the plan you're on now. Was it cheaper premiums, less deductible? Better max out of pocket? All three? Did either of you get it through jobs, or was it outside?
I had Blue Cross through my husband and it was great. They covered my name brand prescriptions. My deductible was $1,400. It was $400 a month for a family plan.

Now I am in United HealthCare. Our deductible is $5,000 a month. My doctor had to switch over all my meds to the generic brands. In my doctor's view, while the active ingredients may be the same, the fillers are not. And that can be a problem when you are a diabetic. Cost is $1,200 a month for family plan.

I had a mammogram like every year. Mine are done with 3 D screening because I have very thick breast tissue. No problem under the old plan. The new plan refuses to cover it because 3D is more expensive. I have a choice - go elsewhere for a cheaper version or pay for it myself.

Eyeglass and dental plan are no where near the old plan. These are important when you are diabetic. I have to be screened for diabetic rhetinopothy (sp) and it is no longer covered. So now instead of going every year I go every 3 years.

Foot care is also important as I have diabetic neuropothy. I put it off.

My husband kept that job and is still working there 35 years later because of the healthcare. He could have made more money elsewhere but because I have preexisting conditions it was worth it. ObamaCare took it all away.

And we were warned that our premiums would go up again this year.
If you did NOT have Obamacare you wouldn't even be able to get health insurance, you would have had to go to your states catastropic healthcare.. that is terrible.

So here's what Price wants, do you think you will be any better under Cheeto? I don't think so.. The republicans are no panacea and may be worse. I think I have written before here, when a person is insured under their EMPLOYER, the employer pays the bulk of monthly health insurance and ask their employee to share the costs today (used to be free back in the 70s and 80s). If one is on Obamacare they usually don't have any company pulling in the lions share so a person is stuck paying the bulk, but it was a better deal for you because you had a preexisting condition.

The pubs plan:

http://www.thefiscaltimes.com/2016/11/30/8-Big-Changes-Under-Tom-Price-s-Obamacare-Replacement-Plan-0

this week who knows wtf they are gonna do. they yelled about it for 8 years but NEVER presented anything to counter it that is better and more helpful. Unless you are a libertarian or tea party person then you think, oh well every man for himself and too bad you have cancer, I only care about me.
To be honest , the name calling demeans you as a poster, imo.

And yes we do not know what Trump will bring, so I cannot comment on it, yet.

But I do know what Obama brought, and it was a hardship for me.
 

Bayek

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
May 11, 2013
Messages
7,374
ruby59|1483731080|4113023 said:
Tekate|1483730763|4113021 said:
ruby59|1483729998|4113017 said:
ksinger|1483729081|4113011 said:
ruby59|1483727270|4112999 said:
part gypsy|1483724143|4112984 said:
I am biased because I work for the VA. Written in 2012, but still true today. In face the VA has had made huge strides in clearing the backlog, ending homelessness for veterans, and in suicide reach-out programs, all while serving more veterans than ever before.

http://www.rand.org/blog/2012/08/socialized-or-not-we-can-learn-from-the-va.html

People who receive socialized medicine get better care, at lower cost than privatized health care. The ACA is the right step, but it could have been a lot better. What happened? Lobbyists lobbied to have a bunch of stuff put into it (for example that the Government could not negotiate as a group for lower medicine costs, etc) that many many other countries with socialized medicine do. So if you are not happy with the ACA, blame the lawmakers who larded the ACA with things that primarily the health insurance and drug companies lobbied for, for their profit margin and against the best interest of Americans and their health.

Other people may note, well, what does it matter if other people do not have health insurance as long as I am insured? The reason is that the overall health of a country is affected by the disparity in health outcomes of all its population. That is why it's called "public health". The fact that a certain percentage of children and people do not get immunized, that the city bus driver, highway truck driver does not have his/her blood sugar under control, that there are many children whom your children go to school who did not get the benefit of prenatal care, affects ALL of us. And study after study has shown that socialized medicine provides more coverage, more cost-effectively, with more continuity and preventative care, than privatized or HMO, care does.
I agree about the VA getting better at reducing backlog. In 2007 when I was attempting to get aid and attendance for my late mom, it took 2 and 1/2 years and my getting Senator Reed involved in order to get my mother help in paying for her nursing home.

My husband recently applied for his mom, and it took just 6 month for her.

And I do understand about everyone having healthcare. I can sympathize with the truck driver scenario because I am diabetic who tends to be hypoglycemic in the afternoon and have experienced that while driving. Thankfully I have my meds (all generic) and my dextrose tablets.

But you have to also understand that ObamaCare was also preventing people like me from affording healthcare. My husband and I still work, even though it is becoming increasingly more difficult for us. I even took an additional seasonal job to help out with the Holidays. We would never qualify for subsidiaries, but I can tell you that the $5,000 deductible we have meant having to sacrifice other things along the way, which is why I took the second job. So if premiums rose again for us this year, I do not know what else we could have sacrificed to be able to fit it into our budget.

Families like mine are being priced out as well. As much as I would like to help others, my husband and I are doing everything we can just to sustain our own family.
I'm truly curious, what did you have before that was better than the plan you're on now. Was it cheaper premiums, less deductible? Better max out of pocket? All three? Did either of you get it through jobs, or was it outside?
I had Blue Cross through my husband and it was great. They covered my name brand prescriptions. My deductible was $1,400. It was $400 a month for a family plan.

Now I am in United HealthCare. Our deductible is $5,000 a month. My doctor had to switch over all my meds to the generic brands. In my doctor's view, while the active ingredients may be the same, the fillers are not. And that can be a problem when you are a diabetic. Cost is $1,200 a month for family plan.

I had a mammogram like every year. Mine are done with 3 D screening because I have very thick breast tissue. No problem under the old plan. The new plan refuses to cover it because 3D is more expensive. I have a choice - go elsewhere for a cheaper version or pay for it myself.

Eyeglass and dental plan are no where near the old plan. These are important when you are diabetic. I have to be screened for diabetic rhetinopothy (sp) and it is no longer covered. So now instead of going every year I go every 3 years.

Foot care is also important as I have diabetic neuropothy. I put it off.

My husband kept that job and is still working there 35 years later because of the healthcare. He could have made more money elsewhere but because I have preexisting conditions it was worth it. ObamaCare took it all away.

And we were warned that our premiums would go up again this year.
If you did NOT have Obamacare you wouldn't even be able to get health insurance, you would have had to go to your states catastropic healthcare.. that is terrible.

So here's what Price wants, do you think you will be any better under Cheeto? I don't think so.. The republicans are no panacea and may be worse. I think I have written before here, when a person is insured under their EMPLOYER, the employer pays the bulk of monthly health insurance and ask their employee to share the costs today (used to be free back in the 70s and 80s). If one is on Obamacare they usually don't have any company pulling in the lions share so a person is stuck paying the bulk, but it was a better deal for you because you had a preexisting condition.

The pubs plan:

http://www.thefiscaltimes.com/2016/11/30/8-Big-Changes-Under-Tom-Price-s-Obamacare-Replacement-Plan-0

this week who knows wtf they are gonna do. they yelled about it for 8 years but NEVER presented anything to counter it that is better and more helpful. Unless you are a libertarian or tea party person then you think, oh well every man for himself and too bad you have cancer, I only care about me.
To be honest , the name calling demeans you as a poster, imo.

And yes we do not know what Trump will bring, so I cannot comment on it, yet.

But I do know what Obama brought, and it was a hardship for me.
Hmm I wasn't calling you names?????? as to Cheeto, he wears it, it's his own fault. Your comment on my post is petty.

I can easily comment on what the republicans will bring because they don't know, after 8 years, but Ryan has put out his ideas (terrible) and the above. So I doubt The Donald will be any different, but I could be wrong, maybe he will offer a single payer system like Canada! Kudos to him and he'd really be changing from the 'free market system' republicans love.

ETA: I AM ON OBAMACARE also.. this is my 3rd year, it is a hardship for me, but I understand why I pay 800.00$ a month for a bronze plan, because good old IBM isn't paying for me anymore. We had cobra for 18 months after we retired, that was great.
 

ruby59

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Feb 5, 2004
Messages
3,553
Hmm I wasn't calling you names?????? as to Cheeto, he wears it, it's his own fault. Your comment on my post is petty.

I can easily comment on what the republicans will bring because they don't know, after 8 years, but Ryan has put out his ideas (terrible) and the above. So I doubt The Donald will be any different, but I could be wrong, maybe he will offer a single payer system like Canada! Kudos to him and he'd really be changing from the 'free market system' republicans love.

ETA: I AM ON OBAMACARE also.. this is my 3rd year, it is a hardship for me, but I understand why I pay 800.00$ a month for a bronze plan, because good old IBM isn't paying for me anymore. We had cobra for 18 months after we retired, that was great.
_____________________________________________________________________

Quoting is making this thread too long by repeating the same posts over and over, so forgive me for going back to my old style with this one.

Still to Tekate.

I never said you were calling me names. As to the Cheeto comment, if you were disturbed by the person calling Mrs. Obama a Gorilla in Heels, then this should be no different in my opinion. My comment was honest. You may not like someone, but they are still owed a minimum of respect.

As far as the one payer system, I commented on this before. Maybe the Canadian posters can chime in. We had one poster who claimed she had to wait a really long time for a test to rule out Cancer as it took forever for her to get into a doctor's office.

With my diabetes, so far so good. But what works now, may not tomorrow. Right now I can get in to see my endocrinologist pretty quickly. Will that now be affected?
 
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