Simon Cowell - Speechless [well, almost]

[Maisie]

Its called Britains Got Talent, not Britains Got Perfection.

Its a bit of fun for the general public to have their 15 minutes of fame. If they wanted professionals they wouldn''t be asking Joe Public to come forward and step onto the stage.

 

[decodelighted]

How''s this for communicating: Stop Sucking The Fun Out Of My Entertainment! You got your snark in my Poetics. No, YOU got your Poetics in *my* snark. Infernal circle. Blerg.

 

[LAJennifer]

Date: 4/14/2009 3:48:57 PM
Author: TravelingGal

Date: 4/14/2009 3:43:00 PM
Author: LAJennifer

Musey - I understand what you are getting at - as I, too, enter the discussion with years of training, experience and a resume. Just about every performance I''ve seen on TV - I can always shrug my shoulders and say I''ve seen/heard better. but that kind of sucks the fun out of entertainment. Clearly, Miss Boyle ''moved'' people (who cares about us technical pros) - as evidenced in this here thread and all over the web for that matter. And isn''t that the point of ''art''? Aristotle''s Poetics - why we go to the theatre. Need I say more?

Good point LAJennifer. Ms. Boyle did move many people...I think many enjoy the ugly duckling story and want to see a swan. People will cheer for her and think she is magnificent not because of the technical qualities of her voice, but because within the first few notes of that song captured the human imagination.

Yes, it''s pathos in it''s basic form - what "we", as an audience, "feel" when "triumph" happens to "someone like ourselves" (Miss Boyle). Hence, the "tears" in this thread. Aristitle was no dummy.

 

[musey]

Date: 4/14/2009 3:54:23 PM
Author: decodelighted
How''s this for communicating: Stop Sucking The Fun Out Of My Entertainment! You got your snark in my Poetics. No, YOU got your Poetics in *my* snark. Infernal circle. Blerg.

Sorry

discussing this kind of stuff is ''fun'' (mostly INTERESTING) for my circle, so I forget that it''s just a buzzkill for others.

Bye now...

 

[LAJennifer]

Deco needs a drink . . . and a kiss from Tay-Tay.

 

[decodelighted]

Date: 4/14/2009 3:58:02 PM
Author: musey

Date: 4/14/2009 3:54:23 PM
Author: decodelighted
How''s this for communicating: Stop Sucking The Fun Out Of My Entertainment! You got your snark in my Poetics. No, YOU got your Poetics in *my* snark. Infernal circle. Blerg.

Sorry

discussing this kind of stuff is ''fun'' (mostly INTERESTING) for my circle, so I forget that it''s just a buzzkill for others.
Bye now...

Musey, you know I love you ... I''m mostly kidding! But LAJennifer really hit it ... it IS a buzzkill to hear the detailed analysis of why what was so moving isn''t so amazing afterall. Its like spoiling a magic trick. Or dissecting a joke. Its what I said before: Inside Baseball. Not saying you don''t have the right to post whatever you like ... just saying why that kinda talk irks *me*.

 

[TravelingGal]

Date: 4/14/2009 3:57:34 PM
Author: LAJennifer

Date: 4/14/2009 3:48:57 PM
Author: TravelingGal

Date: 4/14/2009 3:43:00 PM
Author: LAJennifer

Musey - I understand what you are getting at - as I, too, enter the discussion with years of training, experience and a resume. Just about every performance I''ve seen on TV - I can always shrug my shoulders and say I''ve seen/heard better. but that kind of sucks the fun out of entertainment. Clearly, Miss Boyle ''moved'' people (who cares about us technical pros) - as evidenced in this here thread and all over the web for that matter. And isn''t that the point of ''art''? Aristotle''s Poetics - why we go to the theatre. Need I say more?

Good point LAJennifer. Ms. Boyle did move many people...I think many enjoy the ugly duckling story and want to see a swan. People will cheer for her and think she is magnificent not because of the technical qualities of her voice, but because within the first few notes of that song captured the human imagination.

Yes, it''s pathos in it''s basic form - what ''we'', as an audience, ''feel'' when ''triumph'' happens to ''someone like ourselves'' (Miss Boyle). Hence, the ''tears'' in this thread. Aristitle was no dummy.

Nope. Been awhile since I had to read ethos/pathos blah blah blah.

Deco, we can''t have two cranky snarks on this thread, woman!

 

[bee*]

Date: 4/14/2009 2:14:04 PM
Author: TravelingGal

Date: 4/14/2009 2:10:36 PM

Author: decodelighted

At the risk of seeming pedantic....it frustrates me that professionally trained singers seem to think the single definition of ''great singer'' is technical proficiency. All that talk is ''inside baseball'' ... and a little besides the point when it comes to talent competitions. Maybe those with training wish for a world where technical proficiency is king (looks, story, personality, charisma, facial expressions, soul, resonance, etc --be damned). But its simply NOT that important ... when it comes to performance as a business & sales & *real life*.


You can learn to sing. But you can''t learn to *be remarkable*. It must be maddening.

Can people really ''learn'' to sing if they are hopeless? I''ve always wondered. I can''t imagine myself ever getting anything more than one octave range...which is fine for nursery songs anyway.

I could never learn to sing. They used to sit me in the corner in primary school with my colouring books while everyone else sang away as I used to put everyone else off tune

Then I went to a secondary school where we had choir practice three times a week (mandatory) and even that didn''t help me.

 

[TravelingGal]

Date: 4/14/2009 4:07:04 PM
Author: bee*

Date: 4/14/2009 2:14:04 PM
Author: TravelingGal

Date: 4/14/2009 2:10:36 PM

Author: decodelighted

At the risk of seeming pedantic....it frustrates me that professionally trained singers seem to think the single definition of ''great singer'' is technical proficiency. All that talk is ''inside baseball'' ... and a little besides the point when it comes to talent competitions. Maybe those with training wish for a world where technical proficiency is king (looks, story, personality, charisma, facial expressions, soul, resonance, etc --be damned). But its simply NOT that important ... when it comes to performance as a business & sales & *real life*.


You can learn to sing. But you can''t learn to *be remarkable*. It must be maddening.

Can people really ''learn'' to sing if they are hopeless? I''ve always wondered. I can''t imagine myself ever getting anything more than one octave range...which is fine for nursery songs anyway.

I could never learn to sing. They used to sit me in the corner in primary school with my colouring books while everyone else sang away as I used to put everyone else off tune

Then I went to a secondary school where we had choir practice three times a week (mandatory) and even that didn''t help me.

Aw bee.

I wonder if these people knew they quashed any chance we had to sing. I LOVED to sing as a child. I was in choir and sang my heart out. A girl (who could sing quite well) turned to me when the song was over and snidely (at least in my poor little mind) said, "You were off key!"

I''ve lip synched ever since, except when hanging out with the mold in my shower or trying to torture my own child.

So with that I say, GO MS. BOYLE! Sing to the heavens on behalf of us who could only dream of it!

 

[decodelighted]

And like magic Gawker weighs in on the 5 types of people who watch American Idol. (A show arguably similar to the one we''re discussing in this thread).

 

[TravelingGal]

Date: 4/14/2009 4:15:14 PM
Author: decodelighted
And like magic Gawker weighs in on the 5 types of people who watch American Idol. (A show arguably similar to the one we''re discussing in this thread).

Interesting. I only watched one season of idol (I watched because we had in idol product at work and I couldn''t pitch it without understanding the show). Haven''t seen it since. However I think I probably could watch Britain''s Got Talent...I like that they don''t seem to have an age max?

 

[VRBeauty]

Date: 4/14/2009 4:07:04 PM
Author: bee*


I could never learn to sing. They used to sit me in the corner in primary school with my colouring books while everyone else sang away as I used to put everyone else off tune

Then I went to a secondary school where we had choir practice three times a week (mandatory) and even that didn't help me.

Bee* and T-Gal: I'm so sorry your singing was rejected!

You've reminded me of one of my all-time favorite NPR stories, one I heard (and remember!) from probably 10-20 years ago. It was about a young woman who loved to sing, but literally could not carry a tune. She was utterly tone-deaf. So.. she found other people in the same predicament, and they got together once a month and sang their hearts out! The story included a sound clip, of course, and the group singing did nothing to improve anybody's tunefulness

.

As one who shares the need to sing, this story will always remain close to my heart.

BTW... not to stray into forbidden areas, but the injunction is to "make a joyful noise," not to make a "perfect" noise!

 

[AGBF]

Date: 4/14/2009 4:02:06 PM
Author: decodelighted

Musey, you know I love you ... I'm mostly kidding! But LAJennifer really hit it ... it IS a buzzkill to hear the detailed analysis of why what was so moving isn't so amazing afterall. Its like spoiling a magic trick.

There is so much food for thought in this thread! It is wonderful! (I don't know what a "buzzkil" is, by the way.) I agree with what deco said above, yet I had just read and related to many other postings, some probably at odds with decos's, before I read hers. I will go on and respond to those, too. There is so much to think about! Keep up the good thinking, everybody! Great conversations are being held everywhere...it is so enjoyable!

AGBF

 

[bee*]

Date: 4/14/2009 4:12:23 PM
Author: TravelingGal

Date: 4/14/2009 4:07:04 PM

Author: bee*

Date: 4/14/2009 2:14:04 PM

Author: TravelingGal

Date: 4/14/2009 2:10:36 PM


Author: decodelighted


At the risk of seeming pedantic....it frustrates me that professionally trained singers seem to think the single definition of ''great singer'' is technical proficiency. All that talk is ''inside baseball'' ... and a little besides the point when it comes to talent competitions. Maybe those with training wish for a world where technical proficiency is king (looks, story, personality, charisma, facial expressions, soul, resonance, etc --be damned). But its simply NOT that important ... when it comes to performance as a business & sales & *real life*.



You can learn to sing. But you can''t learn to *be remarkable*. It must be maddening.

Can people really ''learn'' to sing if they are hopeless? I''ve always wondered. I can''t imagine myself ever getting anything more than one octave range...which is fine for nursery songs anyway.

I could never learn to sing. They used to sit me in the corner in primary school with my colouring books while everyone else sang away as I used to put everyone else off tune

Then I went to a secondary school where we had choir practice three times a week (mandatory) and even that didn''t help me.

Aw bee.

I wonder if these people knew they quashed any chance we had to sing. I LOVED to sing as a child. I was in choir and sang my heart out. A girl (who could sing quite well) turned to me when the song was over and snidely (at least in my poor little mind) said, ''You were off key!''


I''ve lip synched ever since, except when hanging out with the mold in my shower or trying to torture my own child.

So with that I say, GO MS. BOYLE! Sing to the heavens on behalf of us who could only dream of it!

aww that was so mean of her! I always lip synched as well in secondary school. One of my best friends and I couldn''t sing to save our lives and the only time we actually did sing was at Christmas when we''d do the carols. Our choir teacher used to always say-Oh, there''s someone out of tune and as soon as my friend and I would stop singing, the choir teacher would be like-that''s perfect now girls

It hasn''t put me off though-you should hear me in the shower! Amber and Manolo normally come and lie on the floor in the bathroom when I''m in the shower and I give them a private concert

Is it bad though that I actually think that I sound alright singing? I must be tone deaf as well!

 

[bee*]

Date: 4/14/2009 4:23:18 PM
Author: VRBeauty

Date: 4/14/2009 4:07:04 PM

Author: bee*



I could never learn to sing. They used to sit me in the corner in primary school with my colouring books while everyone else sang away as I used to put everyone else off tune

Then I went to a secondary school where we had choir practice three times a week (mandatory) and even that didn''t help me.

Bee* and T-Gal: I''m so sorry your singing was rejected!

You''ve reminded me of one of my all-time favorite NPR stories, one I heard (and remember!) from probably 10-20 years ago. It was about a young woman who loved to sing, but literally could not carry a tune. She was utterly tone-deaf. So.. she found other people in the same predicament, and they got together once a month and sang their hearts out! The story included a sound clip, of course, and the group singing did nothing to improve anybody''s tunefulness

.


As one who shares the need to sing, this story will always remain close to my heart.


BTW... not to stray into forbidden areas, but the injunction is to ''make a joyful noise,'' not to make a ''perfect'' noise!

I need to find that group

 

[AGBF]

Date: 4/14/2009 2:45:54 PM
Author: Gypsy

I was in chior for years, formal voice coach, and I got solo parts for our performances.

...

One of the other girls in my choir was an alto when she first joined. And she had a nice voice but didn''t get solos and so forth. I don''t recall how it came about, but I gave her the name for my vocal coach and ... after a few lessons. OMFG. Our coach ''uncovered'' her true voice. And it was the voice of an angel. Literally. So pure, so strong, and so humbling and her range... crimney. I have chills just remembering her performances-- not just her first one... but everyone thereafter as well.

...

She had something god given, a talent that was so amazing and wonderful. And no, she didn''t have the training I did, or the years invested but she had ''it'' and everyone who heard her sing knew it.

...
Some people have ''it'' some people ''don''t'' ....

It is what Gypsy wrote above that had me thinking before I read deco''s posting. Deco says that when people go over a perfomance like Miss Boyle''s as they have here on Pricescope that it detracts from her enjoyment of it. I agree with her. Yet I think that our discussion of singing brought up a topic that would be a great topic for another thread, that of musical gifts. The movie, "Amadeus" was made about this concept, the concept that artistic gifts, genius, were unfairly given...given not to the hardworking, but to those upon whom God had chosen to bestow them. That is what Gypsy is describing when she describes the girl with the wonderful and unique vocal gift whom she met when she was in the choir.

I think that this would make a fascinating thread!

AGBF

 

[partgypsy]

Thanks for the link. I enjoyed it. I don''t know if it was the most technically proficient but I guess I wasn''t judging it on that. I was impressed with the timber of her voice, the way it filled the room, and her humility.

Disclaimer: I can''t sing myself out of a paper bag.