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Lyon

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 17, 2003
Messages
1
Hi,

I''m a Chinese. I want to buy a diamond ring to my girl friend for engagement ring. But the price is very expensive for the diamond ring. Could you pls show me the price in your country.
My proposal for the diamond:
It is around 0.40-0.5 carat.
Color preferred would be between D - F.
Clarity would be between VS1 - VVS1.
 

Giangi

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jan 23, 2003
Messages
2,530
Hey Lyon... Just did a little research for ya!


These are H&A superideals from superbcert.com
This 0.47-Carat, G Color VVS1 clarity SuperbCertTM Round diamond comes accompanied by a GIA grading report.
Carat Weight: 0.47
Price: $2,143.20
1684
This 0.48-Carat, F Color IF clarity SuperbCertTM Round diamond comes accompanied by a GIA grading report.
Carat Weight: 0.48
Price: $2,362.56
1699
This 0.48-Carat, F Color VVS2 clarity SuperbCertTM Round diamond comes accompanied by a GIA grading report.
Carat Weight: 0.48
Price: $2,131.20
1662
This 0.50-Carat, F Color VS2 clarity SuperbCertTM Round diamond comes accompanied by a GIA grading report.
Carat Weight: 0.50
Price: $1,852.50
1719
This 0.50-Carat, G Color VS1 clarity SuperbCertTM Round diamond comes accompanied by a GIA grading report.
Carat Weight: 0.50
Price: $1,852.50
1743
This 0.50-Carat, F Color VVS1 clarity SuperbCertTM Round diamond comes accompanied by a GIA grading report.
Carat Weight: 0.50
Price: $2,425.00
1720
This 0.51-Carat, G Color VS2 clarity SuperbCertTM Round diamond comes accompanied by a GIA grading report.
Carat Weight: 0.51
Price: $1,647.30
1709
This 0.52-Carat, F Color VVS2 clarity SuperbCertTM Round diamond comes accompanied by a GIA grading report.
Carat Weight: 0.52
Price: $2,297.36

These are A Cut Above H&A superideals from whiteflash.com
0.390 E VS2 60.7 55 AGS $1,146.00 View
0.404 E VS2 61.3 55 AGS $1,165.00 View
0.434 F VS2 60.9 56 AGS $1,174.00 View
0.425 G VS1 60.7 56 AGS $1,190.00 View
0.440 G VS1 60.9 56 AGS $1,247.00 View
0.413 G VVS2 61.9 55 AGS $1,292.00 View
0.462 G VS2 60.8 57 AGS $1,304.00 View
0.470 G VS2 60.9 56 AGS $1,332.00 View
0.431 E VS1 61.2 56 AGS $1,445.00 View
0.464 E VS2 61.3 55 AGS $1,499.00 View
0.488 G VS1 61.8 55 AGS $1,563.00 View
0.480 G VS1 61.3 55 AGS $1,563.00 View
0.485 G VVS2 61.8 55 AGS $1,715.00 View
0.491 F VS1 60.3 57 AGS $1,750.00 View
0.516 G VS2 61.7 56 AGS $1,820.00 View
0.514 G VS2 61 55 AGS $1,820.00 View
0.544 G VS2 61 56 AGS $1,928.00 View
0.491 E VS1 60 57 AGS $1,955.00 View
0.495 E VVS2 61.9 56 AGS $2,109.00 View
0.522 F VS2 61.4 57 AGS $2,130.00 View
0.530 G VS1 61.7 57 AGS $2,170.00 View
0.548 G VS1 60.8 54 AGS $2,211.00 View
0.517 F VS1 61 56 AGS $2,299.00 View
0.514 F VS1 61.4 57 AGS $2,299.00 View
0.580 G VVS1 61.3 54 AGS $2,700.00 View
0.530 F VVS1 61.7 55 AGS $2,780.00 View

BTW, if you go to G/H SI 1 or something like that, you'll get a much larger diamond...
 

jlim

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Apr 29, 2003
Messages
250
----------------
On 6/18/2003 7
1:19 AM Giangi wrote:

BTW, if you go to G/H SI 1 or something like that, you'll get a much larger diamond...

----------------
Isn't it obvious by now most Asian (namely Chinese), again I emphasis most, prefer higher quality smaller sized diamond? Color and clarity are always the preference over carat.
 

mdx

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Mar 1, 2002
Messages
570
Hi Lyon
You don’t say where you stay in China
Try one of these two companies, they will point you in the right direction for a good local price.

LUSTIG BROTHERS DIAMOND SHANGHAI LTD
972-37511191
972-37528220
Or
Beijing Ploy Pailin Jewelry
010-64638202
010-64638203

Lyon China has a large and growing diamond industry with 70 diamond cutting factories, and 20,000 Jewellery retailers shop carefully and you will be surprised what you find in terms of both quality and price. Always best to buy from members of the newly constituted Shanghai Diamond Exchange.

Wayne
Melbourne Diamond Exchange ltd.
 

mdx

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Mar 1, 2002
Messages
570
Furthermore in some cultures it not the looks, its more to do with starting out in a relationship in a pure and unblemished state. Hence the high color and clarity, E VVS1 is very popular.

As a trader absolutly love the concept

Wayne
Melbourne Diamond Exchange ltd.
 

jlim

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Apr 29, 2003
Messages
250
furthermore - another tip for you. Chinese believe the number '4' is bad. Anytime you have '8' is good. But I believe Muslim like the number '4'. Sometimes it is not what it looks like after mounting. Sure, it might hide the SI or even the G/H/I color, ultimately you know the specs. If a diamond is important only to the wearer, I would prefer a flawless diamond even if it is a smaller size (~ 0.5ct). To me, that beats wearing a 1.5ct lower grade (on paper) diamond. But that's me.

Besides, using the same 2 month rule that they want you to use in US, you'll be looking at about $1000 to spend (for someone who has been working for a couple of years) in my home country. And they do not discount diamond based on the exchange rate unfortunately. So, most people would end up buying a smaller diamond <0.5ct and the only thing they have to show for is a good quality D/E/F VVS1 diamond.

mdx - it is interesting you say E/VVS1 is a popular choice. That's what I ended up buying. Of course if I can get a D/IF it would have been better. But a E/VVS1 in my mind is just as good. I considered a G/VVS1 and I'm glad I didn't go through with it.
 

baloo

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 3, 2003
Messages
39
Furthermore. I'm in Singapore with a Japanese girlfriend. Yes, in Asian cultures it is often the true unseen quality that matters as opposed to simple looks. It also explains why the counterfeit designer goods out here are so popular. People who can't afford the real stuff still want to be seen with the Designer Labels. Doesn't make too much sense to me, being Australian, but to each their own.

But I disagree that it's only Asians. If that were true then Tiffany would need to shut up shop in the US and other western countries. In actual fact, buying a 1ct D, VS1 would cost about the same as a 1Ct G, SI1 from Tiffany. Surely it makes more sense to buy the better quality stone.

hmmmm, I wonder if I get imitation Tiffany baby blue boxes and certificates....
 

Giangi

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jan 23, 2003
Messages
2,530
You can find those on ebay!
 

jlim

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Apr 29, 2003
Messages
250
baloo - I think it also has a lot to do with wearing a big honking diamond in Asia. As you probably realize by now, in S'pore there's the "kiasu" mentality. Not too many people can afford big diamonds. So, naturally when you see someone with a big diamond, it is going to be obvious. Most people in S'pore work for a living and the living expenses is very very expensive. So, if you got a big diamond, you either have a very very rich husband or you are wearing a low quality diamond.

Brand worshipping is more common in Asia than in US, IMO. I've seen more women sporting LV bags and men wearing Rolexs in my home country than in US. Whether they are real or not, I don't know coz' like you said, fake imitation goods are very popular and IMO can be very good quality. In some case, buying a $5 imitation LV bag is a better quality than say a $50 DKNY bag that you find all over the malls here. Buying a $500 LV bag is more than a month's salary of a lot of people in Asia.
 

Yupi

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 8, 2003
Messages
74
Hi Baloo, I read that your gf is Japanese. Have you or your gf heard of a Japanese lab called Central Gem Lab ?? I wonder what's their reputation and credibility in Japan ??
 

phoenixgirl

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Mar 20, 2003
Messages
3,369
Here are some examples:

H&A cuts first:

http://www.goodoldgold.com/0_41ct_f_vvs1_h&a.htm

http://www.superbcert.com/products/index.cfm?Product_ID=492&Product_Subcategory_ID=1&Product_Category_ID=3&Product_Group_ID=1

http://www.superbcert.com/products/index.cfm?Product_ID=451&Product_Subcategory_ID=2&Product_Category_ID=3&Product_Group_ID=1

http://www.niceice.com/certcopies/gia12457799/index.htm

http://www.niceice.com/certcopies/gia12457769/index.htm

http://www.niceice.com/certcopies/ags0002630706/index.htm

Not H&A cut (as far as I know):

http://search.virtcert.com/cgi/u/1041/v.cgi?stock=1492920&_s=1041&_p=98fg98f7g&_c=&_fs=1&prestock=

http://search.virtcert.com/cgi/u/1041/v.cgi?stock=1387426&_s=1041&_p=98fg98f7g&_c=&_fs=1&prestock=

http://www.mondera.com/diamonds/product.asp?partno=452406&sourceID=BPVd0yuZ5sA&sourceid=00328749382287295310

http://www.dirtcheapdiamonds.com/diamond_detail.cfm?did=1633630

http://www.dirtcheapdiamonds.com/diamond_detail.cfm?did=1641475

http://www.dirtcheapdiamonds.com/diamond_detail.cfm?did=1218636

To answer your question, if you stick between 0.40 and 0.49ct, the price will probably be between $1000 and $2500, depending on the color/clarity combination you go with and the quality of the cut. The price jumps dramatically between a 0.49ct and a 0.50ct, so you could be spending over $3000 if you insist on exactly half a carat. Make cut a priority and stick to the lower end of your color & clarity combo, and you should be able to get a good diamond for between $1300 and $1500:

http://www.bluenile.com/details.asp?pid=LD00524724&query=2&filter_id=0

http://www.dirtcheapdiamonds.com/diamond_detail.cfm?did=1691384

http://www.whiteflash.com/acut/diamond_details.asp?ItemCode=471882
 

baloo

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 3, 2003
Messages
39
Hi Yupi,

No idea sorry. We only started getting interested in the finer details of diamond buying recently in Singapore.
 

Hest88

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jan 22, 2003
Messages
4,357
----------------
On 6/18/2003 9:16:17 AM jlim wrote:

Brand worshipping is more common in Asia than in US, IMO.
----------------
True. But see, in my mind, that actually negates the idea that Asians prefer unseen quality. The emphasis on designer labels--even fake ones--seems more like the equivalent of wanting a larger stone. It's the *external* appearance that's important here, and the external appearance of how wealthy and status conscious you are, that spurs the designer label craze.

That said, the longer I've been obsessing over diamonds, the more I've concluded that the D, IF thing is as much a matter of ignorance as the carat size thing. Most jewelers tell people that carat, color, and clarity are the most important things because it's the easiest concepts to explain. Thus, when you ask any mall consumer, they will spout that a D, IF diamond is an ideal stone. However, an educated and quality-conscious consumer wouldn't accept anything less than ideal *cut.* The truly discriminating consumer who truly prizes a perfect diamond then would be the one who perhaps wants a D, IF, ideal-cut diamond.
 

Dukegirl

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 13, 2003
Messages
21
That's interesting about the idea that Asians would prefer the smaller, more perfect stone. Does that only apply to Asians in Asian countries or exclusively Asian communities in the US, or is that a more general tendency? The reason I ask is because my boyfriend (well, he has technically proposed although we don't have the ring and haven't really told anyone, so I find it difficult to call hime my fiance) is Taiwanese-American but grew up in the most white-bread land community in which his family was the only Asian family and he balked when I suggested getting a smaller stone! We are going with a 1-ct but I was previosuly looking at stones just under. However, my friend recently got engaged and received a 1.5-ct ring and so Eric started out by insisting he needed to buy me a 1.6-ct so that I could have a bigger stone!!! (Of course, there is no way we can afford such a ring right now.)



Also, the 2-month salary rule doesn't exactly make sense if, like us, you are students who only work during the summer. Sure, he's making about $10,000/month this summer, but what about the other 9 months of the year?! Instead, we're going with the 1-week salary rule (not anybody's rule, just one we made up ourselves and laugh about).
 

Hest88

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jan 22, 2003
Messages
4,357
----------------
On 6/18/2003 10:51:16 AM Dukegirl wrote:

That's interesting about the idea that Asians would prefer the smaller, more perfect stone. Does that only apply to Asians in Asian countries or exclusively Asian communities in the US, or is that a more general tendency?
----------------
Personally, I think it's more of a Japanese thing and less of an indiscriminate all-Asian thing.

Not only do we not all look alike, we also don't all think alike.
 

Dukegirl

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 13, 2003
Messages
21
Hey, *definitely* not implying all Asians look alike!

But someone mentioned the desire for a smaller, but higher quality stone was a Chinese thing and I was wondering how culturally ingrained that was.
 

jlim

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Apr 29, 2003
Messages
250
Again it is all generalizing. For every Asian (Chinese) you ask, I'm sure you can find someone who wants size over quality. I'm of course speaking in terms of 1) I'm Asian and 2) My Asian friends that I've known growing up in Asia.

I think it is less likely to find an ABC (American Born Chinese) to follow the values of Asian borned and raised in their own country. Being in a foreign country is difficult enough and for youngters to grow up in communities where you are different from your peers, will often time make the individual give up his or her cultural background and blend in with their American peers. Most ABC children will often time not speak their mother tongue language and often time prefer pizza and burgers over say good chinese food.

Hess88
******
True. But see, in my mind, that actually negates the idea that Asians prefer unseen quality. The emphasis on designer labels--even fake ones--seems more like the equivalent of wanting a larger stone. It's the *external* appearance that's important here, and the external appearance of how wealthy and status conscious you are, that spurs the designer label craze.
******

To answer your question, wearing or sporting fake imitation good does seem to contradict the emphasis on quality that is being portrayed. Rest assure, when it comes to buying important items, they'll always buy high quality if they can afford it. The reason for buying the fake goods is, 1) sometimes they (imitation goods) are made very very well and they look much better than average no brand goods 2) to show off to their friends coz' at a quick glance you can't see the difference

And also, engagement ring is a new trend in Asia. Most of my friends who are married just decided to get married and buy wedding bands. Not too many people are willing to spend a few months salary to buy a <0.5ct diamond.
 

jlim

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Apr 29, 2003
Messages
250
----------------
On 6/18/2003 10:38
0 AM Hest88 wrote:

spout that a D, IF diamond is an ideal stone. However, an educated and quality-conscious consumer wouldn't accept anything less than ideal *cut.* The truly discriminating consumer who truly prizes a perfect diamond then would be the one who perhaps wants a D, IF, ideal-cut diamond.
----------------
What about an IDEAL CUT diamond then with priority on D color and IF clarity before size?

I think the trend that I see on this board is, CUT, CARAT, COLOR, CLARITY.

Personally, my order would be CUT, COLOR/CLARITY, CARAT.
 

jlim

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Apr 29, 2003
Messages
250
----------------
On 6/18/2003 10:51:16 AM Dukegirl wrote:

That's interesting about the idea that Asians would prefer the smaller, more perfect stone.
----------------
I think if money is no object, everyone would want a big diamond D/FL.

Unfortunately diamonds are expensive and the average joe does not make nearly as much as the average joe in US. Imagine you work in Asia and your salary is the same or less in local currency (no conversion) and price of good is 5 times as much.
 

Hest88

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jan 22, 2003
Messages
4,357
----------------
On 6/18/2003 11:28:15 AM jlim wrote:

The reason for buying the fake goods is, 1) sometimes they (imitation goods) are made very very well and they look much better than average no brand goods 2) to show off to their friends coz' at a quick glance you can't see the difference
----------------
Come on, Jlim, #1 is patently ridiculous. You know it's really #2.
None of my friends, Asian-born, ABC (or ABK, etc.), or Caucasian, would ever try to pretend it's #1. It's just too transparent!

And also, engagement ring is a new trend in Asia.
Yep, other than the Japanese. Which is also why I think the whole diamond "quality" thing is a little moot when you're not talking about the Japanese. Other Asians are going through the same learning curve Americans are, and getting the same spin from their jewelers. The Japanese are the ones, after all, who created the Eightstar prototype.
 

jlim

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Apr 29, 2003
Messages
250
No, seriously I kid you not! I was back home last year and went shopping with my sister. She actually bought a few imitation bags for her own use coz' they really look much better than the average no-brand bags. You'll be amazed at how much improvements are in imitation goods. Compared to 7 years ago, I agree with you. They were poorly made and the zipper is usually the first thing to go. They have come along way. If you get a chance, check them out though I do not know where you shop. So, it could be still bad where you are.

Well, I'm not China born Chinese but still Chinese. Definitely not Japanese. I still take CUT, COLOR/CLARITY, CARAT in that order.

I've asked my friends and we share the same view. Interestingly enough I haven't ask any American friends or colleagues what their preferences are.
 

Nate

Shiny_Rock
Joined
May 17, 2003
Messages
211
Ahhh c'mon... I see people mentioning in this thread "low quality" stones, referring to stones with stats such as VS2-SI1 and G-J. This is ridiculous to me, as my own purchase can attest. For the less fortunate with $1000 to spend, paying for something that cannot be seen seems a foolish waste to me. Not only that, but in a 0.5ct diamond inclusions are already hard to see, even in an SI2! Don't let yourself be brainwashed, spend your money on what can be seen in your diamond or on other things in life that are more important.
 

fire&ice

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jul 22, 2002
Messages
7,828
Engagement rings *are* are relatively new phenom in Japan. Am I the only one who sees this as a "marketing ploy". One person markets the idea that one should buy a perfect diamond - no blemishes to a perfect union. It's brilliant marketing & less cultural.
 

Caratz

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jun 4, 2002
Messages
222
----------------
On 6/18/2003 4:19:25 PM fire&ice wrote:

Engagement rings *are* are relatively new phenom in Japan. Am I the only one who sees this as a "marketing ploy". One person markets the idea that one should buy a perfect diamond - no blemishes to a perfect union. It's brilliant marketing & less cultural.


----------------

What gets me is that "flawless" is a marketing falsehood. In reality there is no such thing as a "perfect" pure unblemished diamond. Crank up the magnification high enough (past 10x, past 30x), and you will see inclusions in a D IF. Even a "D" color will have trace amounts of nitrogen, and therefore some light absorbtion -- even if it does not appear to have any yellow tint. Look closely enough, and even a "flawless" diamond has flaws -- just like people. Ha ha.
 

phoenixgirl

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Mar 20, 2003
Messages
3,369
All he did was ask for a price range on the size, color, and clarity he decided upon. He didn't ask for a critique of his culture or his tastes.

I know we all flock to this forum because we like talking about diamonds more than the average person, but I suspect that this post will only confuse Lyon.
 

Nate

Shiny_Rock
Joined
May 17, 2003
Messages
211
----------------
On 6/18/2003 7:27:19 PM phoenixgirl wrote:

All he did was ask for a price range on the size, color, and clarity he decided upon. He didn't ask for a critique of his culture or his tastes.

I know we all flock to this forum because we like talking about diamonds more than the average person, but I suspect that this post will only confuse Lyon.
----------------
Possibly, but if he tries, he may be able to get a whole lot more out of this thread by us straying from the original question.


You've portrayed my thoughts exactly, Furthermore.
 

bluegrass

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 3, 2004
Messages
3
Jim, I am also Chinese, and I spent half of my life in China. I agree with you that most of the diamonds in China are below or around 0.5 karat, I guess that is generally accepted as an average, and that is what most young people go for when they look for diamonds. It is also interesting that when I went to the jewelers, they didn't mention anything about the 4Cs...hmm, I guess they figured that I couldn't afford the diamonds and was just there to take a look...Anyways, none of my friends who got married got a diamond, not yet that is; considering that diamonds are getting very popular in China with all the commercials saying that a diamond is forever and most people spent alot of money on their weddings, too much in comparison to their salaries, I think the trend is that people will buy diamond rings. Actually, one of my friends just told me that alot of people in China now are spending 10,000 yan or $1200 on their wedding rings, sort of shocked me because that maybe the ring I get when I get married...in the future...
 
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