Should race preferences guide who gets the Covid 19 vaccination first?

[Missy]

A few sources linked below.

Is It Lawful and Ethical to Prioritize Racial Minorities for COVID-19 Vaccines?

This Viewpoint considers how COVID-19 vaccines can be distributed strategically, ethically, and legally given conflicts between consensus public health recommendations to prioritize allocation to disadvantaged racial and ethnic minorities and laws discouraging explicit consideration of race in...

jamanetwork.com

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/12/18/covid-vaccine-racial-equity/

Should race be the deciding factor or should it come down to whoever is the most vulnerable among us including the front line workers, the elderly, health history and other risk factors.

Thoughts?

Please keep politics out of this discussion as we are not allowed to talk about politics on PS, thanks.

 

[Ally T]

I voted for option 3. Most vulnerable, always. And if your ethnicity makes you vulnerable, then get to the front of the line.

 

[Missy]

I voted for option 3. Most vulnerable, always.

I agree.
I am interested to hear other points of view.

 

[Missy]

Another point of view.

Some Black and Latino Americans are still hesitant to take the vaccine. Here's what is fueling that distrust | CNN

When a Covid-19 vaccine becomes widely available to Americans, Joe Cunningham says he won't be taking it.

www.cnn.com

Addressing Racial Equity in Vaccine Distribution | KFF

This brief provides an overview of barriers to vaccination that disproportionately affect people of color and discusses how current national recommendations and state vaccine allocation plans address racial equity.

www.kff.org

"Some states expect to explicitly prioritize people of color, while others report using broader measures"

 

[Daisys and Diamonds]

Opening a can of worms...

Lucky here with a smaller population its boarders workers first
Then the rest of us

It just seems bad luck which partcular demographic/ community a cluster breaks out in
Our first lock down there was practically none in the Pacific community but the 2nd (Auckland only) lock down involved a Pacific church and a funeral

I must say i have been impressed here with the churches all advocating govt guide lines on covid 19

So no to racs
Yes to risk factors
but i think for the most part we'll all be lining up together

 

[MaisOuiMadame]

If ethnicity IS a risk factor, then yes.
If no, no.

 

[SallyBrown]

If race/ethnicity is a GENETIC risk factor, then yes.
Otherwise no.

 

[SallyBrown]

I come from a broken home and lived at or near the poverty line growing up. Schizophrenic alcoholic mother. No bio father in the picture. We moved a lot and I lived, on and off, in minority neighborhoods and went to some minority schools.

Study after study shows that ALL kids from my type of background are at much higher risk for low socioeconomic status and poor health as adults.

Sure enough, I’ve struggled with preventable health issues and lived, at least as a younger adult, in high density housing in higher crime areas, relying on public transit. Racial minorities haven’t cornered the market on disadvantage and subsequent health issues.

But should I go to the front of the vaccine line for these reasons?

HECK NO!

OK, getting off my soap box now.

 

[LilAlex]

This is a tough one -- like the lifeboat question. Do you help the ones who are most likely to die (the very old and infirm) or the ones who are at risk of losing the most years of productivity (the "young and employed" old).

Luckily, there is no way to allocate it that way from a public health standpoint.

You may know that there is a huge and misguided and unscientific push to banish "race" considerations from medicine. So this would fly in the face of those new mandates. @SallyBrown makes a good point about genetic risk factors. Self-reported race in the US is a good proxy for genetic ancestry. There are a handful of genetic variants that associate with COVID-19 or with severe COVID-19 but I do not know how that breaks out vis-a-vis race. Suspect the effect of race will be subtle whereas the effect of age is enormous (like 75% of deaths have been in the over-65 age group whereas only 15 - 20% of cases have been in that age group and there are virtually no deaths in the youngest population strata despite a reasonable burden of infection (I forget the bins and percents).

For vaccinations in the US so far, it is front-line health-care workers (makes sense) and vulnerable populations in group living situations who are really not able to socially distance effectively (skilled nursing facility residents and the incarcerated -- makes sense, too, imo).

 

[nala]

After it goes to first responders, It should go to essentials who are making sure we have groceries and toilet paper—the rest who have the luxury of working from home can wait

 

[mellowyellowgirl]

After it goes to first responders, It should go to essentials who are making sure we have groceries and toilet paper—the rest who have the luxury of working from home can wait

This x 1000000

Can't isolate in middle class comfort without the essential workers who are providing us with power, water, processing our food and packing our groceries.

 

[SallyBrown]

From a practical standpoint, the U.S. can ill afford to delay vaccinating the general population while the courts handle the lawsuits that will surely arise from distributing the vaccine first to underprivileged minority neighborhoods. We also can’t afford more reasons for race riots this Spring,

I feel big trouble may be brewing on the distribution front. Hope I’m wrong.

 

[Bron357]

I would hope people who deal with Covid patients get a vaccine first and ASAP.
next should be those who are at most risk for whatever reason.
next should be elderly / those whose race make them more likely for complications.

 

[SallyBrown]

Should people with blood types A and AB go to the front of the vaccination line?

See, we could parse risk out in all sorts of ways:

Possible Link Between Blood Type and COVID-19 - Hematology.org

Possible Link Between Blood Type and COVID-19

www.hematology.org

 

[Matata]

Should people with blood types A and AB go to the front of the vaccination line?

You're on a slippery slope. If we want to get really tribal about it, why should the elderly get it at all? They're going to die soon anyway, right? And what about handicapped and mentally ill who aren't able to live independently? They don't contribute much to society so shove them to the back of the line. Infertile men and women who can't contribute to the continuity of the human race -- no vaccine at all for them. Surely those who refused to follow covid protocols don't deserve the vaccine.

Maybe we need to exercise a bit of genocide or implement eugenics to ensure only the right people get the vaccine and those nasty poor "Racial minorities (who) haven’t cornered the market on disadvantage and subsequent health issues" don't get the vaccine first.

Study after study shows that ALL kids from my type of background are at much higher risk for low socioeconomic status and poor health as adults.

The poorest white person in this country has more opportunity and advantage than the poorest black person by virtue of skin color.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/08/12/black-poverty-differs-from-white-poverty/

New Insights Into the Poverty and Affluence Gap Among Major Racial and Ethnic Groups

Racial and ethnic inequality remains one of the country’s most vexing social problems. It has always been true that whites are much less likely to be poor and more likely to be rich than blacks, Hispanics, and American Indians (Asians are a different story)–and it remains true today. For blacks...

ifstudies.org

Systematic Inequality

The already large racial wealth gap between white and black American households grew even wider after the Great Recession. Targeted policies are necessary to reverse this deepening divide.

www.americanprogress.org

Adding insult to injury, the wealthy who try to buy their place at the head of the line.

In California, wealthy patients are offering top dollar to cut the line for a Covid-19 vaccine | CNN

While the nation continues to see record levels of new Covid-19 cases, hospitalizations and deaths, wealthy patients in Southern California -- the epicenter of the state's Covid-19 crisis -- are offering to pay top dollar to cut the line and be among the first to receive a vaccine.

www.cnn.com

 

[Kasey Bug]

I come from a broken home and lived at or near the poverty line growing up. Schizophrenic alcoholic mother. No bio father in the picture. We moved a lot and I lived, on and off, in minority neighborhoods and went to some minority schools.

Study after study shows that ALL kids from my type of background are at much higher risk for low socioeconomic status and poor health as adults.

Sure enough, I’ve struggled with preventable health issues and lived, at least as a younger adult, in high density housing in higher crime areas, relying on public transit. Racial minorities haven’t cornered the market on disadvantage and subsequent health issues.

But should I go to the front of the vaccine line for these reasons?

HECK NO!

OK, getting off my soap box now.

Very well said!

 

[Daisys and Diamonds]

From a practical standpoint, the U.S. can ill afford to delay vaccinating the general population while the courts handle the lawsuits that will surely arise from distributing the vaccine first to underprivileged minority neighborhoods. We also can’t afford more reasons for race riots this Spring,

I feel big trouble may be brewing on the distribution front. Hope I’m wrong.

Good lord ...
No wonder there is this hugs push to get it out there

why is the govt going into a shutdown thing again, its something to do with the covid response ?- it got too hard for me to follow

 

[kenny]

Tough question for me, but I voted yes.
America had slavery.
We F-ed over a group of people ... BIG time!

Slavery may have legally ended in 1863 but much oppression, discrimination and suffering of these Americans continues to this day.

To me all the civil rights equality laws are like words, in the sense that actions speak louder than words.

The act of America giving AAs higher vaccine priority won't reverse what America did in the past, but IMO it's one meaningful and kind act to benefit a group that America has wronged in the most barbaric way.

Same with Native Americans.
Front of the line, I say.

 

[MrsBlue]

Highest risk. I fear that considering too many alternatives would just slow down the process of getting vaccines out. Simple and fast is best right now.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Tough question for me, but I voted yes.
America had slavery.
We F-ed over a group of people ... BIG time!

Slavery may have legally ended in 1863 but much oppression, discrimination and suffering of these Americans continues to this day.

To me all the civil rights equality laws are like words, in the sense that actions speak louder than words.

The act of America giving AAs higher vaccine priority won't reverse what America did in the past, but IMO it's one meaningful and kind act to benefit a group that America has wronged in the most barbaric way.

Same with Native Americans.
Front of the line, I say.

Ok no vaccine for all white peoples. Asians go first.

 

[Arcadian]

First Coronavirus Vaccine Doses Administered In Hard Hit Indigenous Communities

Native Americans have been disproportionately impacted by the coronavirus pandemic and are four times as likely to be hospitalized with COVID-19.

www.npr.org

I'm glad its going there because its been hard going to sew 16000 masks.

But this right here

Stanford Apologizes After Vaccine Allocation Leaves Out Nearly All Medical Residents

Residents waged a protest on Friday, demanding to know why senior faculty were getting the vaccine before front-line workers who see COVID-19 patients. Stanford has agreed the plan was flawed.

www.npr.org

that was just disgusting. yeah it went to a hospital but not to front line workers as it should have.

 

[Karl_K]

That anything but the most vulnerable first is even being considered is a sure telling sign of how sick the USA has become.

 

[SallyBrown]

You're on a slippery slope. If we want to get really tribal about it, why should the elderly get it at all? They're going to die soon anyway, right? And what about handicapped and mentally ill who aren't able to live independently? They don't contribute much to society so shove them to the back of the line. Infertile men and women who can't contribute to the continuity of the human race -- no vaccine at all for them. Surely those who refused to follow covid protocols don't deserve the vaccine.

Maybe we need to exercise a bit of genocide or implement eugenics to ensure only the right people get the vaccine and those nasty poor "Racial minorities (who) haven’t cornered the market on disadvantage and subsequent health issues" don't get the vaccine first.


The poorest white person in this country has more opportunity and advantage than the poorest black person by virtue of skin color.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/08/12/black-poverty-differs-from-white-poverty/

New Insights Into the Poverty and Affluence Gap Among Major Racial and Ethnic Groups

Racial and ethnic inequality remains one of the country’s most vexing social problems. It has always been true that whites are much less likely to be poor and more likely to be rich than blacks, Hispanics, and American Indians (Asians are a different story)–and it remains true today. For blacks...

ifstudies.org

Systematic Inequality

The already large racial wealth gap between white and black American households grew even wider after the Great Recession. Targeted policies are necessary to reverse this deepening divide.

www.americanprogress.org

Adding insult to injury, the wealthy who try to buy their place at the head of the line.

In California, wealthy patients are offering top dollar to cut the line for a Covid-19 vaccine | CNN

While the nation continues to see record levels of new Covid-19 cases, hospitalizations and deaths, wealthy patients in Southern California -- the epicenter of the state's Covid-19 crisis -- are offering to pay top dollar to cut the line and be among the first to receive a vaccine.

www.cnn.com

I’m not following your logic at all, @Matata. And after reading your post again, I’m actually pretty offended.

 

[icy_jade]

That anything but the most vulnerable first is even being considered is a sure telling sign of how sick the USA has become.

Exactly. I’m surprised it’s up for debate. The front line workers, then the essential workers, elderly, those with health risks should be prioritized first. The rest can wait.

 

[SallyBrown]

That anything but the most vulnerable first is even being considered is a sure telling sign of how sick the USA has become.

The trouble is, determining “most vulnerable“ is not an exact science. Especially when it comes to emerging diseases like COVID-19.

 

[SallyBrown]

People who socialize with non-household members or flaunt other safety protocols SHOULD ideally be at the very end of the vaccination line. Or, rather, everyone who followed the rules should be ahead of them.

 

[SallyBrown]

Tough question for me, but I voted yes.
America had slavery.
We F-ed over a group of people ... BIG time!

Slavery may have legally ended in 1863 but much oppression, discrimination and suffering of these Americans continues to this day.

To me all the civil rights equality laws are like words, in the sense that actions speak louder than words.

The act of America giving AAs higher vaccine priority won't reverse what America did in the past, but IMO it's one meaningful and kind act to benefit a group that America has wronged in the most barbaric way.

Same with Native Americans.
Front of the line, I say.

Yes, the U.S. government and many white men who were alive hundreds of years ago F-ed over AA’s and Native Americans in the WORST possible ways. But this isn’t the rationale for prioritizing minorities in the vaccine line according to the government reports. This has nothing to do with reparations, nor should it.

 

[Matata]

I’m actually pretty offended.

Did I misinterpret your "soapbox" which I thought was racist? If so I apologize. I interpreted your opinion to be that those who have suffered systemic racism don't deserve to be vaccinated before those, like you, who have not been subjected to systemic racism even though you grew up in a financially disadvantaged family.

I found this highly offensive in context with your opinions on the subject:

Racial minorities haven’t cornered the market on disadvantage and subsequent health issues.

It came across to me as cruel and racist that you compared your circumstances as equal to racial minorities and a reason why you and they should not go to the front of the vaccine line. Again, if i misinterpreted that, I apologize.

One thing upon which we agree is that there will be distribution problems; however, I don't think law suits about minority neighborhoods getting the vaccine will not be dominant. I think laws suits about the rich and famous getting them first will likely predominate.

 

[SallyBrown]

Did I misinterpret your "soapbox" which I thought was racist? If so I apologize. I interpreted your opinion to be that those who have suffered systemic racism don't deserve to be vaccinated before those, like you, who have not been subjected to systemic racism even though you grew up in a financially disadvantaged family.

I found this highly offensive in context with your opinions on the subject:


It came across to me as cruel and racist that you compared your circumstances as equal to racial minorities and a reason why you and they should not go to the front of the vaccine line. Again, if i misinterpreted that, I apologize.

One thing upon which we agree is that there will be distribution problems; however, I don't think law suits about minority neighborhoods getting the vaccine will not be dominant. I think laws suits about the rich and famous getting them first will likely predominate.

 

[yssie]

People who socialize with non-household members or flaunt other safety protocols SHOULD ideally be at the very end of the vaccination line. Or, rather, everyone who followed the rules should be ahead of them.

Idealogically I wholeheartedly agree.
Unfortunately though - those who are not following the rules are the ones who are getting and spreading this thing en masse.
Vaccinating them first mitigates the effects of their selfishness, keeping the rest of us safe at much larger scale than if the rest of us individually got vaccinated.