Should marijuana be legalized?

[Dancing Fire]

I am going to be an addiction counselor so I have mixed views on this. Do I think pot is more harmful than alcohol? No. Do I think people downplay the negative effects of pot? Yes. A person with the disease of addiction will use and abuse [fill in the blank] if it is legal or not but I am not one to glorify any mood altering substances. I would worry if pot was legal there would be many more car accidents. IMHO people tend to do it at home or in a safe place since it is illegal.

but think of all those lives it would save w/o gang drug wars. our streets would be much safer by legalizing drugs.

Oh they would still be VERY busy selling amphetamine, barbiturates, benzodiazepines, cocaine, ecstasy, methadone, methamphetamine, MDA, opiates, oxycodone, and phencyclidine (PCP). The drug trade is not driven by pot. Those are small potatoes DF. Do you think EVERYTHING should be legalized?

yes,no difference now.the drug addicts are buying them illegally everyday.if i'm not using drugs now i'm not gonna use it just b/c it's legal.

 

[Tacori E-ring]

I am going to be an addiction counselor so I have mixed views on this. Do I think pot is more harmful than alcohol? No. Do I think people downplay the negative effects of pot? Yes. A person with the disease of addiction will use and abuse [fill in the blank] if it is legal or not but I am not one to glorify any mood altering substances. I would worry if pot was legal there would be many more car accidents. IMHO people tend to do it at home or in a safe place since it is illegal.

but think of all those lives it would save w/o gang drug wars. our streets would be much safer by legalizing drugs.

Oh they would still be VERY busy selling amphetamine, barbiturates, benzodiazepines, cocaine, ecstasy, methadone, methamphetamine, MDA, opiates, oxycodone, and phencyclidine (PCP). The drug trade is not driven by pot. Those are small potatoes DF. Do you think EVERYTHING should be legalized?

yes,no difference now.the drug addicts are buying them illegally everyday.if i'm not using drugs now i'm not gonna use it just b/c it's legal.

Well, I disagree. I think many more people would use drugs if they were legal. Being illegal can create a negative consequence which detours many curious people. I do think pot should be legal to those who medically need it just as prescription pain/anxiety medication. Like I said, not sure where I stand on the legalization for the masses. But the argument that it will save lives b/c it will prevent illegal drug deals is just insane. I guess I have a different view on addiction than the average person but you are talking about a very slippery slop.

 

[Amethyste]

Hmmmmm... I wonder if I'd be loads of fun to be around if I took my Adderall and then smoked some weed?

Seriously though - I m with EricaD. When I busted my knee last year, i wish I didn't have to take all these pain meds - they made me so sick to my stomach... If it would have helped me with the pain, I would have gone down that road!

 

[Gypsy]

I think it should be legalized, highly regulated and taxed. I think it should be regulated like the blue laws regulate alcohol in certian counties in Maryland. Only sold though the county, during the day, at specific locations, and only way to get a co-pay on it is with a prescription. Otherwise you are limited to a certain amount every month for recreational use, you get a DUI you don't get any, and you have to have a license to use it recreationally. Plus you have to be at least 21. And fines and tickets for unregulated use should be THROUGH THE ROOF.

But that's me. I'm in a bankrupt state and think it would be a good source of income for the state economy. If they regulate it properly.

 

[ForteKitty]

Cali would benefit tons if they were to regulate, grow, sell, and tax. We have perfect pot growing weather here.

Btw, if anyone is ever hiking thru the LA mountains and see patches of weed bushes, turn around and RUN. Do not touch it. There are weapon carrying gunmen manning those stock, and they will not hesitate to shoot to kill. Warnings were sent out internally by Sheriff's Dept a few years back when some hikers were found dead, think one was a child. Not sure if the info ever made it out to public. My aunt forwarded the memo to everyone she knew.

The mountains are too massive to patrol by foot, and they have these tents that repel the technology used from helicopters to detect weed growth. (dont ask me how, i dunno)

It'd be nice to put those bastards out of business.

 

[Gypsy]

I agree, Forte. For what it's worth... right now it's like Prohibition in the 20s. When only the gangs were making money. People still drank, there were still alcoholics, but there was a lot of violence and the gangs made all the money. Frankly, I'd rather have the state make the money, help taxpayers with their burden, and have the money to put cops on the street (instead of being bankrupt and laying off cops now) to be able to regulate all drugs as well as rapists and what not. I live 20 miles from where a girl was kidapped and kept hostage for over a decade all because the CA justice system failed to regulate a known felon and conduct proper searches of their home (they kept the girl in their backyard!). Personally, we need more cops and better trained and equipped cops. If that means the state gets into growing and selling and regulating pot, I'm for it.

 

[Diamond*Dana]

Yes, sale and purchase for limited (tbd) consumption should be legalized and taxed at substantial rates, IMO.

I agree

 

[Dancing Fire]

[quote="Dancing Fire

Oh they would still be VERY busy selling amphetamine, barbiturates, benzodiazepines, cocaine, ecstasy, methadone, methamphetamine, MDA, opiates, oxycodone, and phencyclidine (PCP). The drug trade is not driven by pot. Those are small potatoes DF. Do you think EVERYTHING should be legalized?

yes,no difference now.the drug addicts are buying them illegally everyday.if i'm not using drugs now i'm not gonna use it just b/c it's legal.

Well, I disagree. I think many more people would use drugs if they were legal. Being illegal can create a negative consequence which detours many curious people. I do think pot should be legal to those who medically need it just as prescription pain/anxiety medication. Like I said, not sure where I stand on the legalization for the masses. But the argument that it will save lives b/c it will prevent illegal drug deals is just insane. I guess I have a different view on addiction than the average person but you are talking about a very slippery slop.

nowadays,there're probably more people addicted to so call "prescription pain killer" than illegal drugs.

 

[Tacori E-ring]

[quote="Dancing Fire

Oh they would still be VERY busy selling amphetamine, barbiturates, benzodiazepines, cocaine, ecstasy, methadone, methamphetamine, MDA, opiates, oxycodone, and phencyclidine (PCP). The drug trade is not driven by pot. Those are small potatoes DF. Do you think EVERYTHING should be legalized?

yes,no difference now.the drug addicts are buying them illegally everyday.if i'm not using drugs now i'm not gonna use it just b/c it's legal.

Well, I disagree. I think many more people would use drugs if they were legal. Being illegal can create a negative consequence which detours many curious people. I do think pot should be legal to those who medically need it just as prescription pain/anxiety medication. Like I said, not sure where I stand on the legalization for the masses. But the argument that it will save lives b/c it will prevent illegal drug deals is just insane. I guess I have a different view on addiction than the average person but you are talking about a very slippery slop.

nowadays,there're probably more people addicted to so call "prescription pain killer" than illegal drugs.

Trust me, I am NOT disputing that. People can get high 200 different ways from over the counter stuff in the super market. Pam anyone? Where there is a will, there is a way. What I AM disputing is your reasoning to legalize it. I understand financial motives like many mentioned but legalizing pot will not eliminate drug deals, gangs, or violence.

 

[packrat]

Medicinal I can see, MS, cancer etc. For Joe Blow who had a hard day at work..not so much. I guess I figure there would be a lot of "ohh I hurt myself I need some pot" calls to the Dr. I'm just not a free wheelin fancy pants hipster. I'd wonder about people in professions who are pretty much on call 24/7. I'd wonder if the President was passing a roach clip in the Oval Office. If it's legal, there's no problem right? There's a lot of strung out people here (my town here, not here here)..they all seem to work at the pack and don't have the incentive God gave a peach tree..I'd really hate to see those numbers increase. Meth is a worse problem than pot here, and from what I can tell, most started out on pot and decided they didn't like the laid back "duuuuude" ness of it, and prefer the amped "heywhat'supwhatchadoingwannagooutletspartyit'llbeawesome"-ness of meth. Lots of money to be made if they legalize that then too, I'm sure. The pack loves the meth heads tho..more work gets done than w/the pot smokers.

On one of JD's forums they had a discussion about legalizing drugs, and one of the members was a former ATF agent. He advocated legalizing all drugs (for everyone, not just for medicinal) (b/c if you do it for one, at some point you'll have to do them all) and then cutting off gov't assistance to people that screw themselves up on drugs (alcohol included)-they're going into it w/their eyes wide open, they know the dangers and risks, and cutting off emergency services to them as well. Those that can't handle it will drop like flies and then you'll be left w/those that can control themselves and partake socially and responsibly. And not allow lawsuits b/c someone ended up w/cancer b/c they smoked cigs or got fat on pot. Tho I suppose they'd have to put a warning on the pot since we also need to have warning labels not to operate a toaster in the bathtub or to insert the curling iron into our ears.

There are a lot of alcoholics in my family. I used to drink a lot. I didn't want to end up like them. I rarely drink now. JD grew up watching an alcoholic and seeing what results from it. He used to drink a lot. He rarely drinks now. I get it being a disease. But I wonder, is it a disease that just happens for whatever reasons, like MS or Cancer? Or is it a disease that some bring to themselves? I don't think you go to the Dr and get your test results back and they say "I'm sorry Joe, you're an alcoholic" and you say "How can this be? I eat healthy, I exercise, I don't smoke or drink" We know that a lot of people who drink become alcoholics and we know that a lot of people who do drugs become addicted and some end up burn outs and worse. Some have a more addictive personality than others (says she who smoked 2 packs a day for 12 years) so why open it up and make it easier for people who don't have an honest to goodness need/reason to do it? Nobody forced me to start smoking, and I smoked less when I was under 18 b/c it was harder for me to have someone sell it to me. There's no early warning system like w/storms that a siren goes off if someone who is predisposed to addiction and/or can't do it responsibly walks up to the counter for a couple joints.

I hesitate to post this b/c I can feel the tomatoes coming and know I'm going to tick people off. For medicinal, cancer/MS things like that, I don't see why it should be a big deal-they're in pain for heavens sakes and I can't stand to see people in that much pain, and I think it should absolutely be allowed to help them. For a sprained wrist-no. Suck it up and deal with it. For everyone else just to relax and unwind..I don't get it. I've smoked it, often, when I was younger. And I still don't get it.

Just seems like a big hamster wheel to me. We need people to smoke it so we can raise money for the Gov't. If everybody on the face of the Earth quit smoking cigarettes, what would happen? Thousands of people out of a job, and no money coming in from it for the Gov't. People would quit getting smoking related cancers and emphysema so there would be medical field job losses. (Insurance rates will never go down of course, they'll always find a reason to increase.) It's self perpetuating to me. God forbid we tell people they can't have something b/c they can't act right when they have it. But hey, I mean, there's money to be made off the people who do it, so that's the important thing right?

Round and round the mulberry bush the monkey chased the weasel..

 

[Gypsy]

Packrat, I like your post-- I may not agree with it, but I respect it. No tomatoes here.

 

[Haven]

Sorry if this has already been posted, but here's a Gore Vidal essay which focuses on this issue:
http://www.nytimes.com/books/98/03/01/home/vidal-drugs.html

 

[Autumnovember]

Packrat---no tomatoes here (I'd rather eat them then throw them at anyone ). While I do not agree with you, you're free to voice your opinion the same way we all have. It's also ok if you "dont get it"....its a different experience for everyone.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Packrat---no tomatoes here (I'd rather eat them then throw them at anyone ). While I do not agree with you, you're free to voice your opinion the same way we all have. It's also ok if you "dont get it"....its a different experience for everyone.

just don't drop "sinfully pink"...

 

[vip0802]

nowadays,there're probably more people addicted to so call "prescription pain killer" than illegal drugs.

yup, and Big Pharma along with the FDA are laughing all the way to bank.

 

[Cehrabehra]

I think as long as alcohol is legal so should pot. I don't see one as worse than the other, if anything I see pot as better.

I would rather smoke pot than drink ANY day. But I do it very rarely as it is just not a part of my circle for the most part. I had an opportunity in amsterdam and I didn't I regret that! lol

ETA - plus I think if it were legal we could access it in the quantities needed for baking so that we didn't need to smoke it!

 

[Tacori E-ring]

nowadays,there're probably more people addicted to so call "prescription pain killer" than illegal drugs.

yup, and Big Pharma along with the FDA are laughing all the way to bank.

They aren't seeing as much of the profit as the drug dealers.

 

[Nashville]

Packrat, I like your post-- I may not agree with it, but I respect it. No tomatoes here.

Agreed. I can respect your point, I just think if pot is against the law, 99% of the legal substances should be outlawed as well. I think adults should be able to make these choices for themselves without fear of arrest or fine. People can choose not to partake. It's about taking personal responsibility. No one who wants access to alcohol, prescription meds or weed has a hard time getting it. With pot, take away the stigma and fear, encourage responsible use.

As an example, I always think it's fascinating to view European teen's attitudes about drinking to those of American teens. When you grow up with something being an acceptable part of your culture (a glass of wine with dinner, a pint at the pub) it becomes part of your overall sense of responsibility. Not "let's go on a bender, I broke into my dad's liquor cabinet, woooooo! Hurry and get the car before we get busted!" In Europe the driving laws are zero tolerance for driving under the influence too, so the incentive to not screw up is much greater than what we have here in the states.

I think if we can start getting this attitude about liquor and marijuana in the states, we'd be better off.

 

[Nashville]

I feel the need to add, I probably sound like a stoner, but the truth is I don't smoke. Not because I wouldn't, but because I have a child and I won't risk getting into trouble. I think it's absurd that I could be arrested for smoking on my own property, and I think the laws should change. But I also don't want to encourage the idea that because you think a law is dumb means you should ignore it. So I'm biding my time... something will change, it's just a question of when.

 

[Lynnie]

Oh, man... am I torn on this issue.
For the record, I smoked pot occasionally in high school and college, and basically quit once graduating into the real 'adult' world of working, paying bills, etc. It just didn't mesh with my lifestyle anymore. A lot of my friends still do occasionally smoke it, and it really doesn't bother me in the least - their choice, yanno?

Anyway, there are so many pros, as stated:
LOTS of tax revenue. Maybe we could put a tiny dent into the national debt for once.
Saving lots of $$ and all that wasted time on putting petty drug users/dealers through the justice system.
Many (including myself) feel marijuana use is *better* than alcohol consumption... I don't think pot has that physical addiction that alcohol can have. Also, prescription (read: LEGAL) drugs are now the #1 cause of accidental OD's. I don't think you can OD from pot
It helps maladies. I'm a nurse, and have seen PROOF of this. Marinol (the pill) can help a sick or dying person keep their food down. I've heard so many cancer patients tell me what a god-send it's been for them.

BUT, I have to worry that IF it becomes legal:
It won't stop the drug dealers. Hey, now that it's legal, they can 'under-cut' the gov't's high (no pun intended) prices. A pack of joints may cost $75 from the gov't. The drug dealers will just charge $50. And there will be NO way of telling if it's the gov't's weed or the dealers'.
I work in the medical field. Pot stays in your system for a loooong time. Like, 4 weeks. Cocaine, in comparison, is out of your system in 24-48 hours. So there's really no way of testing if a person is truly 'high' on pot, or got high yesterday... So, say a surgery goes wrong, and a lawsuit ensues. The Dr. tests positive for pot. Maybe he was high??? Who knows? A whole other can of worms, if you ask me....
I'm pregnant. I'm not sure I want my future child to be able to go to the drug store for a pack of joints. Just something about that seems wrong. BUT I'd rather him smoke pot occasionally than binge drink occasionally.

So... I dunno. I guess I lean more towards making it legal, but I think doing so will create just as many problems as it would solve.

 

[lknvrb4]

No, I don't think it should be legalized. On Christmas Eve many years ago my grandmother left our house to go home. My family left in our own car to attend a holiday party. On our way into town we stumbled upon a car accident as we got closer we realize it was my grandma. She was hit head on by a lady who was under the influence of pot. She lived but never full recovered. I don't think its safe to make it legal.

 

[Nashville]

Great points Lynnie! Just a point about what you said about people in high responsibility fields, such as medicine being high/malpractice suits, etc. It's my understanding that employers reserve the right to refuse to hire or can fire anyone who doesn't meet their standards for the work place, hence random testing.

I remember a few years ago a guy was fired from his job because he tested positive for Nicotine. The company said that because he was a smoker, he was too high risk for the health insurance they were providing him with so they let him go. He sued the company and lost, because the company was within it's legal rights to decide in advance what their workplace standards are. My point is, cigarettes are legal, but they can get your fired if your company won't hire smokers. It would be the same thing for marijuana in the work place, even if it were to become legal.

You can assume, but not be 100% sure that a doctor won't stroll into surgery after a line of cocaine, or popping a few OC's. Even if pot became legal, he would still be accountable for malpractice if he tested positive for marijuana regardless of when he smoked it, because of the hospitals policies. So chances are, they wouldn't want to risk their employment or a lawsuit just to smoke.

 

[Lynnie]

I totally see what you mean, Nashville. Making pot legal will force companies to choose to hire/fire based on a legal substance... there would be soooo many occupations affected by this. ANY occupation that involves driving or using machinery. ANY occupation in the medical field. Teachers. Child care providers. Pilots. Policemen.... the list goes on. Hey, your health/life/auto insurance premiums would probably go up, too, right?

So, the hamster wheel keeps on rolling....

ETA: Ikn - I'm sorry about your grandmom.

 

[Imdanny]

OMG, I can't believe you said no, Kenny. I see you as a kind of live and let live type of guy.

Yes, it's natural like alcohol and it should be legal like alcohol. It's a natural plant, it's been used for centuries, and it is never going to go away. Prohibition has certainly done nothing to legitimate responsible use and has promoted a prison industry scam. Prohibition is counterproductive and just plain wrong IMO.

 

[Nashville]

I totally see what you mean, Nashville. Making pot legal will force companies to choose to hire/fire based on a legal substance... there would be soooo many occupations affected by this. ANY occupation that involves driving or using machinery. ANY occupation in the medical field. Teachers. Child care providers. Pilots. Policemen.... the list goes on. Hey, your health/life/auto insurance premiums would probably go up, too, right?

So, the hamster wheel keeps on rolling....

ETA: Ikn - I'm sorry about your grandmom.

Most of the jobs listed here already require testing for employment. Well, not sure about teachers... I know I had teachers I was sure were stoners!

Not sure about the insurance thing though... how that would work out. It's really interesting all the different elements that go into changing a law.

 

[TravelingGal]

I haven't read all the responses but will do so. I've read some and it's been an interesting topic.

Just speaking for myself, I do know that I never tried drugs mostly because they are illegal. Everyone says if you want it, you can get it. But you know what? I didn't. I was a "good" kid and hung out with good kids and although I'm sure we could have gotten it if we wanted to, I wouldn't have known where to start. The effort involved for me just made it a non-issue. So count me in personally as one person who does think that having a substance illegal makes a difference in accessibility...and prevention in starting to use.

TGuy was once very into pot. He actually left the continent to get away from it and his pot smoking friends. It dominated his life in a way that alcohol never did. I saw him smoke it in Australia once...he took a hit (and was sober as we just got to the party) and just was so spacey. Different from what booze did to him and it made him extremely apathetic, even to me. I obviously have very limited experience with the stuff, but pot seems pretty different to me than just taking a drink.

I'd have to research more about the pros of legalization, but for now, I'm in the keep it illegal camp.

 

[Autumnovember]

Packrat---no tomatoes here (I'd rather eat them then throw them at anyone ). While I do not agree with you, you're free to voice your opinion the same way we all have. It's also ok if you "dont get it"....its a different experience for everyone.

just don't drop "sinfully pink"...

I treat her with a lot of care, no worries DF

 

[danners84]

I agree that substance abuse is destructive. One person's addiction can lead to the destruction of so many lives. I would venture to say that nearly everyone on the forum has suffered some sort of loss related to substance abuse.

That being said, I'm on the fence about general legalization - haven't done enough research on recreational use and social implications. Medical use, on the other hand, I am definitely for. Witnessing the suffering it can alleviate, I believe that the benefits outweigh the risks. Many of the drugs we hand out on a regular basis in the hospital are opioids, just legalized versions rather than their street counterparts such as heroin.

 

[summerlove6]

I think everyone has brought up great points for both sides of this matter. I don't use marijuana myself, but I personally believe that it should be legalized for so many of the already stated reasons.

I wanted to elaborate on the topic at the beginning of Packrat's post about how people start on pot and move on to meth. Marijuana is often called “the gateway drug” by those who use propaganda to make it seem like a puff on a joint is equivalent to flushing one’s life down the toilet. I would like to point out that our neighborhood full-time drug dealers are not supporting themselves on marijuana profits alone. Marijuana is not nearly as physically addictive as other “harder” drugs (including alcohol), physical dependency on it is limited, and the minor withdrawal symptoms are relatively harmless and never life-threatening. Many people, including our youth, are forced to seek out drug dealers to obtain marijuana for personal consumption. These dealers are not making a fortune selling the occasional dime bag to a few teenagers. They will not hesitate to prey upon their customers (especially young, easily influenced ones) by advertising their other merchandise and giving them a “good deal” on their first few purchases of some more addictive substances such as cocaine, crack, heroin, meth, etc. It is much more lucrative to deal these types of drugs to people who become physically dependent on them and cannot go without them ($200 a day heroin habit, anyone?). So it is not far fetched to say that marijuana can work as a “gateway” to harder drugs because it is illegal, and due to its illegality people must subject themselves to interactions with those who have much incentive to lure them into a dangerous addiction to a harder drug. Just another good reason to legalize it, I say.

I know that people who wish to abuse other drugs will go out and seek them regardless of what else their pot supplier is dealing as may be the case in your town, Packrat, but your post gave me an opportunity to mention this!

 

[Arkteia]

I often see (and treat) alcoholic and drug addicts. I never smoked pot in my life. And yet I believe that it should be legalized.
- as someone has mentioned, Prohibition (and later events in other countries) have shown that alcohol consumption was at its highest when it was illegal.
- it seems that everyone who has interest in smoking pot is already smoking it. In our state it is pretty easy to obtain the "Green Card" (medicinal marijuana). I do not expect that legalization of marijuana will generate more users.
- if pot was sold at 7-11 by the state and the state would collect taxes, the state would win.
- and this is most important - if we really want to deal with the weed problem, we have to "weed out" the middlemen. One out of 5 kids at school sells drugs, mostly MJ. Less market - fewer dealers. (How many people have you seen "pushing" booze to alcoholics?)
- the forbidden fruit... Tobacco smoking among teenagers is a problem, but is is a much smaller problem than pot. Why? Because if a kid is caught smoking tobacco at the school premises, the consequences will be minimal.
- as a psychiatrist, I know that many of my patients smoke MJ to help with insomnia and racing thoughts. If I start telling them that smoking MJ is bad and taking, for example, Seroquel is very good, I will not be totally honest, because, frankly, Seroquel causes the same side effects (fogginess, sluggishness, drowsiness, sedation, weight gain). And then some. Honestly, what is the difference between someone telling you, "I take Seroquel for my mood disorder" and someone saying, "oh, and I smoke marijuana for my mood disorder"? Same for operating heavy machinery - has anyone realized how many perfectly legal (prescribed) drugs people take after a certain age? And how they may affect one's brain?
- Most of my former opiate addicts are now on medicinal MJ. And knowing what is the biggest problem in addictology (opiates), I'd rather doctors start patients with back pain on marijuana than prescribe Vicodin.
- I think it is time to shift priorities. Opiates, not MJ, are the biggest problem. I know, Packrat, that the whole Midwest is infested with meth, and meth is a horrible drug. It can probably be comparable with heroin and oxycontin in its addictive potential. The only difference is, meth. is cheap. I have seen people sell everything, including themselves, for a pill of "oxy". When I asked one of addicts if he thought opiates should be legalized, he seriously said, "no. Otherwise, I would be dead by now".

As to "gateway drug", it actually used to be tobacco. Tobacco - MJ - alcohol - pills (usually benzos) or X-tasy or hallucinogens - cocaine - heroin. Now it is straight from MJ or alcohol to oxy. Bypassing all stages. The same dealers who start with selling pot in a couple of years are selling oxy. When oxy becomes too expensive, comes heroin.