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Should I worry about a 36* crown angle? Any thoughts on this stone?

Johnny Wishbone

Johnny Wishbone

Rough_Rock
Premium
Joined
Mar 5, 2018
Messages
25
I thought I would enlist the help of the very helpful folks here. Your advice was great in the past. I'm looking at a stone in the $2k price range. One that was suggested to me has the following dimensions:

0.75 carat
I-VS1
Depth 61.5%
Table 56%
Crown angle 36%
Crown height 16%
Pavillion angle 40.6%
Pavillion depth 42.5%
Girdle medium 3%

Here is a link to the video, https://segoma.com/v.aspx?type=view&id=WS4339UD6H
Here are photos of the diamond in question:

Screen Shot 2018-06-08 at 6.19.49 PM.png

Screen Shot 2018-06-08 at 6.36.20 PM.png

Thanks for any help you can provide!
 
36 crown is fine with a 40.6 pav. Some folks here prefer the higher crown for the extra fire a high crown exhibits!
 
Looks good to me! :love:
 
CareBear said:
36 crown is fine with a 40.6 pav. Some folks here prefer the higher crown for the extra fire a high crown exhibits!
Click to expand...

^^^ This! I love higher crowns, and smaller tables on round diamonds!! This diamond should give you beautiful performance!! Great find! :mrgreen2:
 
Just above average to me. I rather lower the crown angle to 35 would be best. :mrgreen2:.. Ideal scope shows leakages under the table due to the crown angle 36.
 
YoLaL said:
Just above average to me. I rather lower the crown angle to 35 would be best. :mrgreen2:.. Ideal scope shows leakages under the table due to the crown angle 36.
Click to expand...
I am not commenting on the diamond itself but rather IS and angles in general.
A 36 degree crown with a matching pavilion that is not overly shallow and a reasonable table size in the 55-56 range and under can be a fine combination and many people like a robust crown.
The IS image has an over bright back light in an ASET black or an IS with a less bright back light it would be all red.
The way you can tell this is how light the center of the stone looks.
Basically anything that is the same tone as the center is not meaningful leakage for combinations in this range and the majority of the time.
 
Thank you all for your replies. I am still learning, and honestly I don't know a lot about Ideal Scope images except that green is bad, red is good :-)

Rockysalamander: Those two stones you linked to are beautiful as well, and both score better with the HCA. The stone I showed is one that a jeweler has chosen and is asking if I like it.

Karl_K: When you say a 36 degree crown with a matching pavillion...I really don't know what a matching pavillion would be. Is there a chart somewhere? Also, I don't know what ASET black is. Are you saying that the IdealScope image is being manipulated in some way with a too bright light source?

Thanks to all who replied.
 
Johnny Wishbone said:
Thank you all for your replies. I am still learning, and honestly I don't know a lot about Ideal Scope images except that green is bad, red is good :)

Rockysalamander: Those two stones you linked to are beautiful as well, and both score better with the HCA. The stone I showed is one that a jeweler has chosen and is asking if I like it.

Karl_K: When you say a 36 degree crown with a matching pavillion...I really don't know what a matching pavillion would be. Is there a chart somewhere? Also, I don't know what ASET black is. Are you saying that the IdealScope image is being manipulated in some way with a too bright light source?

Thanks to all who replied.
Click to expand...
I just wanted to clarify that the HCA is used as an elimination tool. You just want to run the diamonds to see if it's a keeper if it scores under 2. Just a yes or no binary test.
 
PintoBean:
Hmm...ok. I thought I could rely on it a bit more than that. I won't be viewing any of these in person since my state (California) charges about double for these stones it seems.

Also, no matter how low I can get the HCA test, the final category seems to always remain at Very Good, and not Excellent (Spread, or diameter for weight.) Is this usually the case with the diamonds that perform the best?

Thanks!
 
Johnny Wishbone said:
PintoBean:
Hmm...ok. I thought I could rely on it a bit more than that. I won't be viewing any of these in person since my state (California) charges about double for these stones it seems.

Also, no matter how low I can get the HCA test, the final category seems to always remain at Very Good, and not Excellent (Spread, or diameter for weight.) Is this usually the case with the diamonds that perform the best?

Thanks!
Click to expand...
No I've seen the HCA categorize a diamond having excellent for spread.

Feedback is positive from the PSers. Ultimately, your eyes are the final test.
 
Ok, but can you achieve excellent for spread and all other categories?
 
I’m no expert, so please take my opinion with a grain of salt, but I have a recently purchased diamond with the exact CA and PA of this stone (all the other specs are nearly identical as well) and I love the way it performs. Granted the diamonds may still perform very differently and the few minor variations in specs can make a huge difference (especially with GIAs rounding), but I agree with the others advising that this stone may be a strong contender. You mention that you are buying sight inseen for cost savings, but does your vendor offer a good return policy? Even with super ideal specs, I don’t think it’s advisable to buy sight unseen and non-returnable. I wracked my brain trying to determine if that CA would be a “fatal flaw”, but in my case at least that wasn’t the case and my stone exceeded my expectations. However, I would not have considered purchasing it (or any diamond) sight unseen of it wasn’t returnable. Good luck to you!
 
Kaycee2018: Good points. I do believe they offer 30-day returns, but I will double-check that before the purchase. By the way, thanks for the info about your stone! Do you have any photos?
 
Johnny Wishbone said:
Karl_K: When you say a 36 degree crown with a matching pavillion...I really don't know what a matching pavillion would be. Is there a chart somewhere? Also, I don't know what ASET black is. Are you saying that the IdealScope image is being manipulated in some way with a too bright light source?

Thanks to all who replied.
Click to expand...
Right around 40.6 not to much over and not to much under with a table size around 56 or under.
From there it comes down to images.
An overly bright back light makes an IS image of the same stone look worse than one with a less bright back light so I would not call it manipulated.

ASET is another scope used by AGS with 4 colors, red,green, blue with either a white or black background.
The IdealScope uses red and black with a white back light.
 
Johnny Wishbone said:
Ok, but can you achieve excellent for spread and all other categories?
Click to expand...
Generally a stone with all EX on the HCA is a shallower stone which may or may not be suitable for use in a ring.
Most of the ideal cut stones fall in the VG range for spread on the HCA.
 
Karl_K: Ok...thanks! I must be thinking of an ASET image with the green then. A commenter above (YoLaL) said the stone looks just above average. To me I've seen much worse, but I guess I was hoping for a "yes, buy it" or a "no, pass on it" type of recommendation.

Thanks for the help.
 
Johnny Wishbone said:
Karl_K: Ok...thanks! I must be thinking of an ASET image with the green then. A commenter above (YoLaL) said the stone looks just above average. To me I've seen much worse, but I guess I was hoping for a "yes, buy it" or a "no, pass on it" type of recommendation.

Thanks for the help.
Click to expand...
Being in the trade I can not say buy it or not, I can just help with technical issues.
Taking into account the back lighting, I do not see anything in the IS image that would indicate an issue.
 
Karl is concurging with others that is is a fine choice. I posted others only to give options that should be strong choices. They shit a bit between the 4cs. But, if your jeweller is offering the stone you posted at $2k...I'd say that is a fair price.
 
Haha...thanks Rocky. I don't think you meant to say shit, but I get what you're saying. The stone is being offered at $2400.
 
Johnny Wishbone said:
Kaycee2018: Good points. I do believe they offer 30-day returns, but I will double-check that before the purchase. By the way, thanks for the info about your stone! Do you have any photos?
Click to expand...

Here you go. Sorry my pics aren’t the best quality (taken with an iPhone). Mine is 1.85 ct. I’ve also attached my specs. With a 30 return period, I’d definitely give it a shot.

F369CB3F-ECB8-4689-AE8A-6A20344AA6BB.jpeg D1A8A7E4-8F38-4DCA-AB53-9465423F46DC.jpeg A5ECB32C-CE26-4BFB-A82E-A6C89974633E.jpeg D125204E-263C-4A84-B361-3017B9043151.jpeg
 
Karl_K said:
Right around 40.6 not to much over and not to much under with a table size around 56 or under.
From there it comes down to images.
An overly bright back light makes an IS image of the same stone look worse than one with a less bright back light so I would not call it manipulated.

ASET is another scope used by AGS with 4 colors, red,green, blue with either a white or black background.
The IdealScope uses red and black with a white back light.
Click to expand...

If you wish to know more, this article contains a fine comparison of ASET vs IS:

https://www.pricescope.com/journal/what-aset-reveals-ideal-scope-does-not

:twirl:
 
What about a 36 CA 40.6 PA BUT on a 58% table. any issues there? HCA 1.8
 
jcizl1986 said:
What about a 36 CA 40.6 PA BUT on a 58% table. any issues there? HCA 1.8
Click to expand...
There can be issues but it all depends on what is in the numbers.
Are they gia numbers?
They are rounded and can not be used to vet a stone in this range.
You really need IS/ASET images to tell for sure.
A 36ca works better paired with a 55-56 table and a 40.6 pavilion.
But if those are gia numbers there is room for a combo that works well in the rounding.
 
Karl_K said:
There can be issues but it all depends on what is in the numbers.
Are they gia numbers?
They are rounded and can not be used to vet a stone in this range.
You really need IS/ASET images to tell for sure.
A 36ca works better paired with a 55-56 table and a 40.6 pavilion.
But if those are gia numbers there is room for a combo that works well in the rounding.
Click to expand...

thanks, yes they are GIA numbers. but is the most it could move if unfavorable rounding hadnt occurred is a table of say 57.5 and a CA of 35.75?
 
jcizl1986 said:
thanks, yes they are GIA numbers. but is the most it could move if unfavorable rounding hadnt occurred is a table of say 57.5 and a CA of 35.75?
Click to expand...
Table rounds to the nearest whole number, the CA to the nearest 5 or 0, and the pavilion to the nearest even number.
 
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