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Should I go with 60/60 stones for earrings?

baby monster

Ideal_Rock
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Jul 2, 2007
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3,631
So I'm thinking of upgrading my studs. My first ones were 60/60 J/SI2s that were very bright. I then upgraded to Tolk ideals H/SI2s that seem to get dirty and lose sparkle quicker that first studs. I'm tired of constantly cleaning the studs. I remember there was a thread where Gary recommended 60/60 stones for earrings because they tend to retain their performance better as gunk has a lesser effect on shallower stones plus there's no head obstruction for earrings. Should I switch to shallow stones again? Thoughts? Suggestions?
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
40,198
I'm going to say yes. But you can also try some hearts and arrows this time.
 

diamondseeker2006

Super_Ideal_Rock
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55,633
Well, we just had another thread on this, and Wink said he always recommends H&A. So I guess the pros have a difference of opinion! I will tell you that my ACAs never look dirty to me (not that I let them get really dirty). I can see more grime on my AVR due to the larger facets.
 

Queenie60

Ideal_Rock
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4,298
My studs are H&A and sparkle - even through the dirt and muck! I'm certainly not an expert however, I would take the H&A stones for studs. I feel that well cut stones will give you very sparkly earrings. Good luck!
 

Wink

Ideal_Rock
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7,475
diamondseeker2006|1469417415|4058992 said:
Well, we just had another thread on this, and Wink said he always recommends H&A. So I guess the pros have a difference of opinion! I will tell you that my ACAs never look dirty to me (not that I let them get really dirty). I can see more grime on my AVR due to the larger facets.
60/60 can be very bright and beautiful, but rarely have much dispersion. BUT! Please notice that I said, can be. As with other combinations, it is the total package that must be analyzed. While some 60/60s can be very attractive, there are some that will be not be much to write home about.

Part of the obligation of the wearer of any diamond that wants maximum sparkle for that diamond to be seen is to keep it clean. Period.

(Long comment about the speed of light in air, versus the speed of light in optically dense media and the effect on the size of the critical angle (the angle at which light reflects within the diamond or refracts out of the diamond) being determined by the difference between the speed of light in a diamond and the speed of light in finger gookie instead of air has been deleted in the interest of simply saying that a clean diamond sparkles more than a dirty diamond. Crunch even the comment to say that the long comment has been deleted is too long.)

I have been selling rocks since 1970. I got my GG and started selling diamonds in 1975. Even then I paid more for my diamonds from the three K's, Kiger, Kaplan and if memory serves me correctly, Keppie, as they were the three firms dealing in what were then understood to be ideal cut diamonds.

For more than forty years I have been studying diamonds and their beauty, and what I have learned can be summed up in three words.

CUT

IS

KING

It out rules color. Properly cut diamonds often look much whiter than their laboratory grades. Even in lower colors, the beauty of the cut makes the color seem like a rich buttery flavored warmth than a dingy yellow.

It out rules clarity. In my office I have had I1 diamonds chosen over eye clean diamonds because of the beauty of the cut.

It out rules size. For example, a properly cut 0.80 carat looks larger than many improperly cut 1 carat diamonds, even though the 1 carat measures larger than the 0.80 carat. Oh, and the 1 carat costs more than the properly cut 0.80 carat, which is why the 1 carat was cut so poorly to maintain the 1 carat weight.

The main advantage to the 60/60 is not to the client, but to the cutter. It allows the cutter to maintain more weight than cutting for pure beauty and to sell the larger diamond for more money at less per carat, giving the illusion to the client that they are getting a better deal, when in fact they would have gotten a better VALUE for a smaller but better cut and more beautiful diamond.

I believe so strongly that Cut is King that I no longer sell any round cut diamonds that are not of the brand I believe are the best cut diamonds on the planet. To do less, leaves me feeling that I have not truly served my client properly.

As Diamond Seeker has so kindly noted, I do always recommend them for earrings and pendants. I recommend them for earrings and pendents because I believe them to be the most beautiful diamonds for the job. The comments I get from my clients about how much they love wearing them and the compliments they receive when wearing them, lead me to believe that I have made the correct decision.

Wink
 

Rockdiamond

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Jan 7, 2009
Messages
8,189
Wink|1469454091|4059065 said:
diamondseeker2006|1469417415|4058992 said:
Well, we just had another thread on this, and Wink said he always recommends H&A. So I guess the pros have a difference of opinion! I will tell you that my ACAs never look dirty to me (not that I let them get really dirty). I can see more grime on my AVR due to the larger facets.
60/60 can be very bright and beautiful, but rarely have much dispersion. BUT! Please notice that I said, can be. As with other combinations, it is the total package that must be analyzed. While some 60/60s can be very attractive, there are some that will be not be much to write home about.

Part of the obligation of the wearer of any diamond that wants maximum sparkle for that diamond to be seen is to keep it clean. Period.

(Long comment about the speed of light in air, versus the speed of light in optically dense media and the effect on the size of the critical angle (the angle at which light reflects within the diamond or refracts out of the diamond) being determined by the difference between the speed of light in a diamond and the speed of light in finger gookie instead of air has been deleted in the interest of simply saying that a clean diamond sparkles more than a dirty diamond. Crunch even the comment to say that the long comment has been deleted is too long.)

I have been selling rocks since 1970. I got my GG and started selling diamonds in 1975. Even then I paid more for my diamonds from the three K's, Kiger, Kaplan and if memory serves me correctly, Keppie, as they were the three firms dealing in what were then understood to be ideal cut diamonds.

For more than forty years I have been studying diamonds and their beauty, and what I have learned can be summed up in three words.

CUT

IS

KING

It out rules color. Properly cut diamonds often look much whiter than their laboratory grades. Even in lower colors, the beauty of the cut makes the color seem like a rich buttery flavored warmth than a dingy yellow.

It out rules clarity. In my office I have had I1 diamonds chosen over eye clean diamonds because of the beauty of the cut.

It out rules size. For example, a properly cut 0.80 carat looks larger than many improperly cut 1 carat diamonds, even though the 1 carat measures larger than the 0.80 carat. Oh, and the 1 carat costs more than the properly cut 0.80 carat, which is why the 1 carat was cut so poorly to maintain the 1 carat weight.

The main advantage to the 60/60 is not to the client, but to the cutter. It allows the cutter to maintain more weight than cutting for pure beauty and to sell the larger diamond for more money at less per carat, giving the illusion to the client that they are getting a better deal, when in fact they would have gotten a better VALUE for a smaller but better cut and more beautiful diamond.

I believe so strongly that Cut is King that I no longer sell any round cut diamonds that are not of the brand I believe are the best cut diamonds on the planet. To do less, leaves me feeling that I have not truly served my client properly.

As Diamond Seeker has so kindly noted, I do always recommend them for earrings and pendants. I recommend them for earrings and pendents because I believe them to be the most beautiful diamonds for the job. The comments I get from my clients about how much they love wearing them and the compliments they receive when wearing them, lead me to believe that I have made the correct decision.

Wink
Wink!! You know I love you man- we disagree on a few points.
Well cut 60/60's offer a different balance of brilliance, contrast and scintillation than an Ideal Cut - using an oversimplified term to represent the "Keppie" sort of diamond. We agree that they differ.....but different is NOT worse, it is different.
That aspect of the discussion is an interesting study in taste.

But that bold part is an issue for a number of reasons- and it's oft repeated here on PS. Here's why I think it's not a correct selling point for Ideal cut stones.
1) some clients prefer the look of a well cut 60/60 to an Ideal cut- and it's not an insignificant number- probably between 40-60%. TO those who prefer the balance a 60/60 offers the consumer does get the benefit.
2) Cutters of Ideal cut stones share certain business principles with cutters of 60/60's and everyone else in a business selling to a competitive market. They cut Ideal cuts for reasons of aesthetics, for sure. But they too must make a profit- and given that cutters of super ideals need to be more skilled, the margin should actually be greater.
Super Ideals are a super special product- the strength of the cut - and how many people do love them are strong selling points.
No need to imply that cutters who take a different direction are somehow "greedy"

Baby Monster- IMO well cut 60/60's are just as good, if not better for earrings than Ideal Cuts. Nowadays the bigger problem is finding them:)
 

baby monster

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jul 2, 2007
Messages
3,631
Thank you for your feedback, Gypsy, DS, Queenie, Wink and Rockdiamond. Appreciate the thoughts.

I would like to add that both sets of studs are GIA XXX with HCA<2 and H&A pattern so 60/60 stones were not cut for weight retention. I can't find idealscope pics to post though. I agree that 60/60 stones didn't have as much fire as Tolk ones so if I were to put them side by side, I would definitely pick the ideal cut Tolk stones. However, during wear 60/60 stones retained their brightness for a few days. Current studs look amazing on the day I clean them but not as bright the following day. So I'm trying to decide whether I want to have studs that look bright for a few days at the expense of the fire.
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
40,198
I'd personally be okay with giving up fire for that. But only you know what is best for you.
 
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