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Should I ever sacrifice Cut for larger Carat?

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arabon66

Rough_Rock
Joined
Nov 12, 2013
Messages
13
Hi all,

First, thank you very much for the wealth of knowledge you guys provide.
I posted once before when I really had no clue about diamonds at all.


From lurking a little bit longer, I am a bit more comfortable with the diamond search, and THOUGHT that I had narrowed down what I wanted to buy my girlfriend.


I wanted to get her a Round diamond, Ideal Cut, G-I Color , At least SI1 Clarity (eye clean), and 1.0+ carat for around $7,000 (which there are many excellent diamonds in this price range that fit my criteria) I live in Houston, TX so I was primarily browsing through the Whiteflash site.

However, my girlfriend has recently told me that she would probably prefer a bigger sized stone (1.4-1.6... apparently her cousin got a 1.5 carat $8,000 ring at some mall jeweler) even if it is not as well cut. I emphasized that the cut is the most important of the 4C's but I guess she doesn't really care much for it..

I also asked about warmer colors (around L-M) but she's pretty opposed to that idea as well.


By the way, the setting I want to get her is the Tacori Ribbon Style #2573MDRD75.
http://www.tacori.com/engagement/2573mdrd75.html


Grr, what should I do?
 
Is switching to another shape an option? Pears ovals an marquise face up larger and are also less $ per ctw. Also they hide inclusions easier so you could go down to si2
 
Honestly I would love to have had a 1.5 RB when I first got engaged. I knew nothing about diamonds and my fiance inherited a 1 carat pear from his mother.

Today I would rather if I had the choice a 1 carat sparkly idea cut stone. Keeping up with the jone's is one thing but when she puts her ideal cut 1 carat in that gorgous ritani next to her friends not ideal cut 1.5 hers will out shine literally. Also WF has a great upgrade program and since your in TX it is that much easier. I know you want to make her happy sparkly is so much better than just size and she is getting a 1 carat.........
 
Is the Tacori ribbon setting your GF's ideal setting, or is it one you picked out? If your GF didn't choose it, I'd suggest going with a solitaire setting and putting the extra $2,000 into the diamond. Your GF may not know to care about cut, but believe me, if she is going to compare her rock to her cousin's, side by side, your GF's ideal-cut diamond will likely outperform the other diamond.

For example, BGD has a 1.313ct I-SI1 H&A stone with a PS price of $9656: http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/d...ls/1.313-i-si1-round-diamond-ags-104068964017... if you pair it with one of their gorgeous solitaire settings, http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/engagement-rings/solitaires/, you'll be pretty close to your original budget.

Or check out some of Good Old Gold's diamonds, like this 1.53ct I-SI2 Superior H&A (certified by GOG as eyeclean), with a bank wire price of $9906... looks like a real beauty - it meets your GF's requested carat weight and your preference for ideal-cut - and I am sure GOG can work with you to find a classic, affordable solitaire setting. (And with GOG located in NY, no sales tax on this purchase) http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/11293/
 
If you live in or near Houston, take her to Whiteflash to compare some stones. It's easy to say I'd rather have bigger than better cut but seeing is believing. If she finds a stone she loves in a larger size that is affordable, so be it. I would not make that decision on my own if I were you given all the circumstances. She could also get a more expensive stone if she agrees to set it in a plain setting for now. Settings can be upgraded later! An ideal cut stone is something to crow about too - it's not all about size. The difference in the sparkle factor will probably more than make up for additional size.

Quality over quantity is important to me but it might not be for everyone. At least if you buy a stone from WF that is eligible for upgrade, she could either get larger size or better quality later too. Life is all about options - maximize yours and good luck!!
 
AHH my replies keep on deleting!


Niel, unfortunately she is only really interested in Round or Princess cuts. ;(

Heidi, I agree! I think she just needs to learn more about diamonds in general. I did tell her to browse this site...although I don't want her to see my posts. I'm trying to keep it as much of a secret as I can, without being completely blind as to what her wants are.

Mary, I actually know that this is the setting she wants because I stumbled upon it on her Pinterest account. I didn't know what Pinterest was, but this setting was 'pinned' on there with the caption "I LOOOOOVE THIS SETTING". (It was for the princess cut style, but Whiteflash reps did tell me that there is a round cut style as well) The GOG option seems very promising! I'll definitely check it out.

MissGotRocks, I would like to take her, but I do also want the engagement to be a surprise. I've been asking her random questions about rings/diamonds at random times to keep her from suspecting anything. (hopefully) The upgrade path is always great, a big consideration in my purchases. I am the same way too, quality over quantity. My girlfriend is the same way about most things...but I guess she doesn't want to "Lose" to her cousin. :roll:
 
HI:

Start with a smaller ideal cut stone but buy from a vendor with a trade up policy. Then for your first anniversary, or when budget allows, upgrade to a larger size. Someone already mentioned Whiteflash as a vendor, and I second this.

cheers--Sharon
 
a 1.5 for 7000 will necessitate a cheaper cut and a lower clarity, J color, and a bump in the budget.
 
This is a hard one. Most PSers know better than to sacrifice cut for size and that is what you will likely hear. I say this as a person who is very aware of the average population's tastes, and I say this because in my social circle, from professionals to non-professionals, I can't find one person who appreciates cut as much as PSers. What they do appreciate are the size and the intricate setting. So, at the risk of incurring everyone's wrath, may I suggest that you do compromise cut BUT THAT YOU BUY THE STONE WITH A LENIENT RETURN POLICY AND OR UPGRADE POLICY. I wouldn't suggest that you buy a poor or fair cut. So, your fiance will be ecstatic bc she gets her size but if after wearing it a while, she is not happy because she starts to notice that her stone doesn't shine all the time, etc, she can then return the stone or upgrade. Most of my friends and family never found any defects with their engagement rings and were ecstatic at the surprise proposal and immediately became attached to their ring.
 
One thing I'll say about Pinterest is sometimes you pin something and don't add a caption, it just has the caption from the previous pinner.

Like I've seen a ring pinned 30 times that says "my ring".... Clearly it's not all 30 peoples ring. They just never changed the caption. So it could be someone else who said that.

I agree cut down on the setting price is the easiest way to get the size. Also do a lot of digging an time you can find a si2 I-J stone.
 
You could search for a balance, like a 1.2ct, unless 1.5 is the magic number. I personally went with the highest quality 1ct I could find, and from everything I've read and the videos I've watched on youtube, I would rather have a 1ct diamond with the fireworks than a dud 1.5. But not to say you can't find a good 1.5 in the pricerange! Watch videos on youtube of goodoldgold to see comparisons, he actually has videos like the scenerio I described.
 
Honestly bigger is not always better. The halo effect or a really beautiful designer band could still make her feel special and loved. Monique Lullier has some gorgeous settings.

As you mentioned before, the cut is the most important as it is what makes the diamond sparkle. She is definitely going to care when she looks down and sees her ring looking large and dull.
 
You could search for a balance, like a 1.2ct, unless 1.5 is the magic number. I personally went with the highest quality 1ct I could find, and from everything I've read and the videos I've watched on youtube, I would rather have a 1ct diamond with the fireworks than a dud 1.5. But not to say you can't find a good 1.5 in the pricerange! Watch videos on youtube of goodoldgold to see comparisons, he actually has videos like the scenerio I described.

Here is a link to one of the videos kind of describing what I am talking about.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYb0egO4jFg
 
Talking RBs now, you'd have to run the numbers using current prices. But back in 2006-2007 or so, a 1.25ct was selling for about 10% more than a 1ct. So it might be possible to split the difference and get something with a diameter of 7mm - 7.2mm, maybe as much as 1.3ct and it will still look "big." Cut is one of those things that I personally won't compromise much on. If you wear a "good" or "fair" cut diamond a while. what you' (or she) will probably notice about it is that it has to be kept very clean or the performance disappears. Or, that it looks great in some lighting but maybe not so great in the office, or precisely whatever lighting she wears it in the most. The superideals look good all the time, unless they are so encrusted that they can't reflect anything. hehe

If she can settle for less than 100% eyeclean under all circumstances, there might be some decent SI2 or even I1 diamonds that you could consider. Clarity is the place to make tradeoffs, imo. Cut, color, size are instantly observed by bystanders, but clarity has to be scrutinized. How does she feel about inclusions? Personally, I will take a diamond with one visible but discrete inclusion that hides very well. Sometimes you can prong them, sometimes not. Pay attention to where the arrows are, vs. where the prongs are, so that you can cover a prongable inclusion but still have the arrows oriented the way you want.

The 1.5ct mark is what a lot of people go after when they want an anniversary upgrade. So, there is tremendous competition for any value priced diamond in that size range. You might find you have to go over or under the 1.5 ct mark to find a stone by your deadline.
I.D. Jewelry and b2cjewels have both found some decent diamonds for people with tight budgets. Maybe try them?
 
Well, in my opinion, she's already 'lost' her cousin. She has a soon to be fiancé who is shopping and educating himself on the best product he can get - which sadly can't be found at a mall store. You will also find in some undercut stones that while they may weigh 1.5 carats, they don't face up that large. They can be deeper stones and therefore face up smaller.

I think you could take her to look at stones and still surprise her with what you choose. The proposal can come in many different ways with a ring she has never seen. The ring is a gift from you and while I know you want most to please her, her cousin's ring just could not be my top criteria. There are too many other important factors in choosing her diamond!
 
I totally understand her wanting a big huge rock! Before I found Pricescope I would have bought the biggest stone possible for my budget and not cared if it was a super performer. As long as it was a diamond, and a big one at that, I would have rocked that thing :bigsmile:

The difference now is that I have learned a lot about how special and beautiful diamonds can be. Not the kind of diamonds that are on show in your local jewellers, but really pretty and well cut diamonds. There is more to a diamond than just size alone. Of course I would love a massive sparkly ideal cut diamond, but if I can't have that I would rather go smaller and have the best cut possible. Size vs quality for me is a no brainer. I would go for quality every time.

We have to remember that most people aren't well educated about diamonds and size is still a major factor in buying an engagement ring. If arabon's future fiancee is more about size then maybe thats what he needs to look for. Perhaps drop down to very good cut and polish and give her an acceptable performer while maintaining the size she wants?
 
Maisie|1388522528|3583986 said:
I totally understand her wanting a big huge rock! Before I found Pricescope I would have bought the biggest stone possible for my budget and not cared if it was a super performer. As long as it was a diamond, and a big one at that, I would have rocked that thing :bigsmile:

The difference now is that I have learned a lot about how special and beautiful diamonds can be. Not the kind of diamonds that are on show in your local jewellers, but really pretty and well cut diamonds. There is more to a diamond than just size alone. Of course I would love a massive sparkly ideal cut diamond, but if I can't have that I would rather go smaller and have the best cut possible. Size vs quality for me is a no brainer. I would go for quality every time.

We have to remember that most people aren't well educated about diamonds and size is still a major factor in buying an engagement ring. If arabon's future fiancee is more about size then maybe thats what he needs to look for. Perhaps drop down to very good cut and polish and give her an acceptable performer while maintaining the size she wants?
Click to expand...



This is what I was getting at.
 
Sharon, Thank you. I will either take your suggested route, or simply to extend the 'deadline' of getting the ring. I don't quite have a firm deadline set yet. =)


Braga123, thank you for your honest opinion. I think that my gf will be happy with whatever I give her, and I'm afraid that if I do get her a bigger diamond that does not sparkle, and if she IS unhappy with it, she won't tell me because she will feel too bad. For example, I received a christmas gift from a coworker (cheese and sausage) that came with an Ice Pack. I told my gf that the ice pack was her xmas gift and she tried her best to assure me that she liked it (even though she obviously didn't).


Niel, thank you for that tip. I actually went to her pinterest again, and checked the caption. There was no previous pinner, and it went straight to the tacori website...so I think she is the one who captioned it.

Cymone, I definitely hope so! I'll try to have her learn more about diamonds without outing myself/exposing that I have plans of getting her a ring in the near future. ;)


Bfleming, thank you for the tip. I will definitely start watching more videos of comparisons. It seems like GOG has an extremely informative site and has a plethora of good videos to learn from!


TC1987, I think that she will be okay with a 1.25-1.3 to be honest. I'm not entirely too sure that she knows what a Carat is, she probably just automatically equates it with how big the diamond is. She's told me that it doesn't have to be eye clean, so SI2 or I1 is definitely an option, but I guess it is a little bit outside my personal comfort zone. Hmm, if I get a 1.5 now then do I not have to get an anniversary upgrade?? :lol: And, I'll definitely check out those sites as well, thank you.


MissGotRocks, I've told her that her cousin's 1.5 carat can't be of good quality, but she still wanted that size haha. I guess you are right, we might go check out whiteflash and view some of their diamonds, at least to get a feel of what she is comfortable with. Now I just need to find a time where both of us can go there (darn their office hours)


Rocky, I actually contacted BGD about a different diamond (colored M haha) but haven't seen your linked diamond yet. I'm definitely interested in giving their store a try too, however I wish they carried Tacori.


Maisie, thank you. I think that I'll see if I can try to have her learn more about diamonds, and hopefully that will change some of her views. If she still wants a bigger diamond by sacrificing other parameters after that, then I will probably have to drop down to a lower cut.
 
She needs to go into this with her eyes wide open.

It can still be a surprise. She wont know when you'll do it or how. And I'm sure she probably already knows you want to propose eventually, so you aren't spoiling much.

Cut quality is a big one. Seeing the color in real life is a big one. Knowing your budget. Maybe she might want to throw in? If she hasn't seen all shapes on her hand is do that too. Also I'd tell her her setting will compromise her ctw. Strait out ask her if she's ok with that.
 
I would go with a simple solitaire, drop the color to H and go with a bigger size.
 
Maybe someone already pointed this out but keep in mind a poorly cut 1.5 ct stone can face up like a 1 ct (if it is cut very deep). So when looking at diamonds be aware of the dimensions not just the ct weight.

Also is your girlfriend matching up her color preference to her friend's mall stone that probably isn't GIA or AGS. Best to look at some GIA stones to get a realistic preference. Most G's and H's and even some I's look pretty darn white.
 
I really wanted to hit a magic 1ct marker when I got engaged. I really pushed size to my bf (now husband) however he went for best color, clarity, cut and then size. The diamond was upgraded after 2 years. Honestly I just never loved it due to size. I remember he proposed and I was slightly disappointed. So while I know on PS that cut is king, if size is important to her then prioritize that.

Have you contacted IDJ? A recent PSer got a very good price on a H/I SI2 diamond that was eye clean. The SI2 was due to twining wisps which are a white inclusion that most can't see with the naked eye. They are also very good at working with a budget. I would tell them your budget and have them source something. Then get the setting she wants if your budget allows. If not then just buy the stone and place in a solitare. Perhaps you both can plan a romantic date down the line to pick our it's "forever home."
 
I was going to say the same thing..the cousins diamond probably faces up like a smaller diamond.

I would never recommend sacrificing cut under any circumstances. These diamonds are just going to be more brilliant than a poorly cut stone and could have the appearance of being as big or larger.

http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/11143/

http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3012596.htm ($9448 with PS discount and wire payment)

http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-2982241.htm ($7148 " )

http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3016689.htm ($7544 " )

I understand that you want to make her happy, but really, she needs to understand that you have a budget, and you aren't going to give her a crappy diamond because you think she deserves better!
 
FWIW my 2.04ct that is I1 due to twinning wisps (shown in difference settings....it has had a bit of a journey in that area). Completely eye clean. So you can definitely get SI2/ even I1's that are eyeclean.

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Sb makes good points. But again I think this why you get her actively involved in this selection
 
I know my opinion is going to be an unpopular one, but I have on occasion sacrifice cut for size. It really depends on the project; I was working on an anniversary ring for my mom, and she really wanted size above all. So I found a very spready, and therefore shallow marquise diamond, and had it set in a halo (again, my mom's preference). She gets compliments all the time, and she loves it as it is. She really wouldn't want a smaller, more well cut diamond. She has a size 8 finger, and wanted the most finger coverage for the $$. Her circle of friends have a total range of diamonds from the poorly cut to the well cut, but only one or two of her many friends actually have a very good cut, so hers isnt really overshadowed. For myself, for an e-ring, I'd prefer a more well cut stone, but I'm also very willing to go down in color, esp. for an old cut diamond, so that gives me a little leeway.
 
Go see some diamonds in person. Compare ideal cuts to VG cuts and see if you and she can tell a differnce. Make an informed choice. It's still a surprise. You are just comparison shopping!
 
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