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should I buy this diamond? - part II

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vablackwell

Rough_Rock
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Jan 1, 2009
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Hi -

I''ve located another stone, this time on Blue Nile, to match to my existing stone. The only info I have on my existing stone is 48 grams and 5.0-5.04 diameter, color G.

Here''s the stone I''m looking at. Using the Holloway meter it scores a 1.1:) Much better score than the previous stone I was considering.
Do you have any concerns about this one? It has a twinning wisp. I do not have the plot. Should I ask for that before buying?

http://www.bluenile.com/round-diamond-1-carat-or-less-very-good-cut-g-color-si1-clarity_LD01351375?filter_id=0


Stock number: LD01351375

Price: $1,032

Bank wire price: $1,017

Carat weight: 0.50

Cut: Very Good

Color: G

Clarity: SI1

Price per carat: $2,064

Depth %: 62.9%

Table %: 58%

Symmetry: Excellent

Polish: Very good

Girdle: Very thin to thick

Culet: Very small

Fluorescence: None

Measurements: 5.00 x 5.02 x 3.15 mm

ANGLES : 36.5 and 40.6

Thanks,
 
I think the one that Lorelei posted looks like a nicer stone - and cheaper with the PS discount
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Date: 1/3/2009 2:10:39 PM
Author: AmberGretchen
I think the one that Lorelei posted looks like a nicer stone - and cheaper with the PS discount
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Click to expand...
Thanks Amber!

Virginia, actually I would nix the last diamond I posted, on rereading I didn''t see previously that this diamond has short lower girdle facets, it might not be the best match for your existing diamond, so we can look for some others for you if you like.
 
Hi Everyone -

I would really appreciate your help. There are so many variables. I will start to look at the James Allen website...so far I''ve only looked at Blue Nile and B2C jewels.

Did not know they have a pricescope discount:)

Thanks,
 
Hi -

So, I''m realizing that it might be helpful to have all my info in one post...regarding the 3-stone ring I''m trying to build.

This is the center stone I''m trying to match my two side stones with. I don''t know if it''s ideal or not. Can you tell me what ideal means?
Report Type: 14131384 GIA Diamond Grading Report
Date of Issue: December 15, 2004
Round Brilliant
Measurements: 6.18 - 6.27 x 4.05 mm
Carat Weight: 1.01
Color Grade: H
Clarity Grade: VS1
Proportions:
Depth: 65.1 %
Table: 60 %
Girdle: Medium to Extremely Thick, Faceted
Culet: None
Finish:
Polish: Good
Symmetry: Good
Fluorescence: None

The side stone has been measured at 5.04 -5.10 by different jewelers with different gauges. It weighs 47 - 48 grams. Most jewelers have tried to match it to a G, VS1 or VS2. It is not certified.

I''m looking for a third stone to go with these other 2.

Should I have the stone appraised to see what it''s actual color/dimensions are? Or, just continue to look for a stone online that is close in measurement?

It was suggested I match on: mm spread and table size...but what does that mean exactly? Can I get that info without getting an appraisal? Would a jeweler provide it?

Thanks for the help,

 
Date: 1/3/2009 7:58:31 PM
Author: vablackwell

Hi -

So, I''m realizing that it might be helpful to have all my info in one post...regarding the 3-stone ring I''m trying to build.

This is the center stone I''m trying to match my two side stones with. I don''t know if it''s ideal or not. Can you tell me what ideal means?

Report Type: 14131384 GIA Diamond Grading Report
Date of Issue: December 15, 2004
Round Brilliant
Measurements: 6.18 - 6.27 x 4.05 mm
Carat Weight: 1.01
Color Grade: H
Clarity Grade: VS1
Proportions:
Depth: 65.1 %
Table: 60 %
Girdle: Medium to Extremely Thick, Faceted
Culet: None
Finish:
Polish: Good
Symmetry: Good
Fluorescence: None

The side stone has been measured at 5.04 -5.10 by different jewelers with different gauges. It weighs 47 - 48 grams. Most jewelers have tried to match it to a G, VS1 or VS2. It is not certified.

I''m looking for a third stone to go with these other 2.

Should I have the stone appraised to see what it''s actual color/dimensions are? Or, just continue to look for a stone online that is close in measurement?

It was suggested I match on: mm spread and table size...but what does that mean exactly? Can I get that info without getting an appraisal? Would a jeweler provide it?

Thanks for the help,



Click to expand...
The only meaningful use of the term ideal relates to AGS labs AGS0 Ideal cut grade, vendor applied labels such as Ideal don''t always mean much and are no guarantee of a well cut diamond.

I am only a consumer and I would think the table size and MM measurement would be the way to match, but I would defer to the experts as to which would be the best way of doing so, then we can have a look for some suitable diamonds for you.
 
Hey Virginia,

I risk first rankling you and then shocking my friends with this advice, so brace yourselves.

First, your center stone’s cut quality is not the best (this is the part where I hope not to upset you). It weighs 1 carat but the cutter achieved it by making the stone “taller” than it should be, which hid extra weight in the middle. As a result your center stone has the face-up size appearance of an 0.88 carat round with more efficient proportions. This is not a big deal – your diamond is a symbol of something far more important than its measurements! – but it has implications in discussions of size and sidestones.

Second, I’m going to urge you not to focus too strongly on finding the most super-duper “picture perfect” numbers top to bottom for the replacement sidestone (this is the part where I shock my friends, since I’m the eternal cut nerd). Decent angles will be compulsory around here. We need to focus on the simple task of matching mm, table size and keeping lower half lengths close.

If you can post a photo of your existing stone - shoot straight down on it, keeping the table facet as parallel with the camera lens as possible - we can tell you table and appx lower halves. Then the friendly people here can make appropriate suggestions.
 
Date: 1/3/2009 7:58:31 PM
Author: vablackwell


It was suggested I match on: mm spread and table size...but what does that mean exactly? Can I get that info without getting an appraisal? Would a jeweler provide it?
Click to expand...
Spread in mm is 5.00-5.10 from what you have said. The table is the largest facet on the top of the diamond. Its size is stated as a percentage of the average girdle diameter. Different table sizes give diamonds different overall 'looks.'

Here are 55, 60 and 65% tables. Obviously in real-life the differences are nowhere near as notable as these blown-up examples, but even in small diamonds differences of a few percent can be determined with the naked eye.

55-60-65-table-examples.jpg
 
The lower halves are 16 facets on the diamond's pavilion. Different lower half lengths impact the character of light return. In general terms shorter lower halves create fewer, larger scintillation events. Longer lower halves create faster and smaller scintillation events. All of this presumes good light return to begin with, of course.

lowerhalves-65-90-simulations.jpg
 
Thank you, everyone, for your help with my search. John, the graphics are really helpful, for newbies like me:)

I appreciate your candor and your insight. I''m not in the slightest offended by good, honest info.

Regarding my center stone...I understand, now, that it''s less than perfect. My husband did his best, but he didn''t know about pricescope or things might have been different:) Oh well:) I still love it:)

Today I continued my search for a side stone and went to a jeweler who did a sarin test on my stone.

Here is the info:
Between a J and K
Brilliance: vg-excellent
dispersion: excellent
scintillation: very good
wt. 0.475 ct, cut: Good
diam: 5.12mm (5.04-5.20)
depth:3.05mm 59.6%
crown 31.3
girdle 1.4%

Selected: 59.6% depth, 67.8% table, 10.2% crown, 46.3% pavilion, 0% culet
The result is for a symmetrical diamond with a medium girdle and very good polish
HCA SCORE:
Factor Grade
Light Return Fair
Fire Poor
Scintillation Poor
Spread
or diameter for weight Excellent
Total Visual Performance 8.1 - Poor

When they shone a black light on it, it was totally flourescent. I mean glo-stick, nightclub, blue!

Does this mean high flouresence? How is that graded?

So, I''m VERY GLAD I got the sarin report. I find it amazing that of the 3 jewelers I''ve asked to match it, they''ve matched this "unknown" stone to an E, F, G, H all VS1 or better. This is MIND BOGGLING to me, but I digress...

An appraisal is now not necessary...I get it:):) You guys were way ahead of me on that...thank you for your feedback, swingirl:)

I have found a manufactured trellis setting from a company called Mars Jewelry that I like. It''s http://www.marsjewelry.com/cart/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=2650

What should I do next:

1) Send everything to Whiteflash, have them match side to a graded stone, ask them if they could set it in the Mars setting.
2) Go to Peter Escobar in Campbell (close to San Fran) and ask him to match it with a certified stone, and set it.
3) Go with the jeweler I went to today who wants to sell me a $900 matching flourescent ungraded stone she pulled out of an earring setting and refuses to give me the specs on and a $650 platinum setting.

Please note: An appraiser I spoke with today, Nancy Stacy, really likes the setters at wf and blue nile. She did not recommend anyone in the bay area to me, even though she lives here!...she thought I would get the stones set the best by sending it all to WF. Is there consensus on that?

Thoughts?

Thanks,
 
Virginia,

I would either send the whole thing to WF and let them match it, or I don''t know much about Pete Escobar but he could be a possibility. That the third jeweller refuses to give any info is a deal breaker to me.
 
Sounds like a plan. I have called WF to inquire.

The problem is the "gift" stone may not be up to par with my center. It''s possible that it would be better not to join it with the H stone.

It''s not milky, according to the jeweler who did the sarin test...but it just may not be the right stone.

I guess I''ll see what WF comes up with.
 
Date: 1/6/2009 12:25:08 AM
Author: vablackwell
Thank you, everyone, for your help with my search. John, the graphics are really helpful, for newbies like me:)

I appreciate your candor and your insight. I'm not in the slightest offended by good, honest info.

Regarding my center stone...I understand, now, that it's less than perfect. My husband did his best, but he didn't know about pricescope or things might have been different:) Oh well:) I still love it:)
Click to expand...
Virginia,

You're welcome. Wow you really went the distance. I admire you becoming so engaged in the details of what, to many people, could easily be 'blown off' as a bit too OCD (we wear that mantle with pride around here).

I take issue with only one thing you said: Your center stone is no less perfect now than it was before - you have simply become more worldly. As a comparison I own a 14 yo Black Persian cat. In the years I've had him I've learned much about the breed & what the CFA Persian Breed Council considers their 'breed standard.' Armed with that knowledge I might be more worldy were I to seek an "ideal" Black Persian kitten today (I might even go for a Himalayan). But what I've learned will never change the value of my perfect 'ordinary' grumpy persian-with-an-attitude and what he means to me...

I consider any wedding diamond the same way. Sure, now that you know more shop more selectively - but nothing can take away from the symbolism & love contained in that which bound you to your soulmate.
 
Ok a few thoughts...


Date: 1/6/2009 12:25:08 AM

Today I continued my search for a side stone and went to a jeweler who did a sarin test on my stone.

Here is the info:
Between a J and K
Brilliance: vg-excellent
dispersion: excellent
scintillation: very good
wt. 0.475 ct, cut: Good
diam: 5.12mm (5.04-5.20)
depth:3.05mm 59.6%
crown 31.3
girdle 1.4%

Selected: 59.6% depth, 67.8% table, 10.2% crown, 46.3% pavilion, 0% culet
The result is for a symmetrical diamond with a medium girdle and very good polish
HCA SCORE:
Factor Grade
Light Return Fair
Fire Poor
Scintillation Poor
Spread
or diameter for weight Excellent
Total Visual Performance 8.1 - Poor
Click to expand...
The measurements you gave indicate a crown angle of 31.3 and pavilion angle of 42.7. Doing the math, I think the Sarin may have gone a bit large on the table (that happens) but it''s still going to be around 66%. Either way I agree with the HCA assessment.


When they shone a black light on it, it was totally flourescent. I mean glo-stick, nightclub, blue!
Does this mean high flouresence? How is that graded?
Click to expand...
It depends on the intensity and distance from the light source. The procedure varies between labs and varies widely between appraisers. If the UV source was some distance away it sounds like strong or very strong.

My suggestion is to go rogue & send the whole thing to a trusted & reputable jeweler for a quote on replacing BOTH sidestones. They don''t have to be superest-duperest quality in the world...but I do NOT suggest you throw any money at matching something with a 66%-plus table. A pair of rounds just under 0.50ct with nice cut quality would be pretty ducky IMO.
 
Just have to chime in here and 1) wish you the best of luck with the outcome of this project, Virginia, and 2), say how awesome it is all the detailed info you are getting here - I''m sure you are in really good hands with WF and they will make the best match possible. What a great example of all that is wonderful about pricescope
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