Should custom work be symmetrical?

[ctuccikaufman]

I just got my ring back from the jeweler''s (3 stone, set in platinum) and the setting was custom made via hand carved wax. I am noticing that nothing is really symmetrical. Is this common for a hand carved piece? Should this add to the character or do I need to mention something to the jeweler? I already paid in full and didn''t really check it out in this much detail at the store...


Thanks!
Casey

 

[strmrdr]

imho it should pass a 6-8 inch distance 30 second looks symetrical test.
From 6 to 8 inches away if you notice it in less than 30 seconds it takes away from the appearance of the ring.
Thats my opinion.

 

[ctuccikaufman]

I''d like to show pictures, but I can''t seem to get my digital camera to focus on the darn ring. Any suggestions...

 

[PhillipSchmidt]

I would like to see it too. If we can see where they have gone wrong we can tell you if it can be put right.

I definately don''t think hand made jewellery should be off to cock. It shows a poor adherance to details.

I have heard people argue that their hand made jewellery has added character because it is not perfect and it just sounds like an excuse to me. I made that excuse myself once.

Good jewellery is made by a perfectionist. The jeweller should have much keener eyes then you and strategies in place to make sure his jewels are always on song. Then there is QA. If a jeweller lets something go and it looks wrong to you, then it must have looked very wrong to him, or else he never looked at it. See what I mean.

Thats MO

 

[PhillipSchmidt]

Play with the lighting Casey,

Try different lights and take a few snaps each time as they flicker. Sunlight can be good too.

I can get better focus with more light. Get as close as you can and it won''t blur as much. If you need to set the exposure to say 2 seconds you will need a tripod and probably a trigger. If you can hold it steadily against something then, do.

This works for me anyhow.

Phillip

 

[pqcollectibles]

Try using the macro mode, if you have it on your camera. Look for a little flower. That will be macro mode. If you do have macro mode, using a little table top tripod will help lots as well. You can get one at most electronics supply stores, like Best Buys or Circuit City, and they only cost about $10. That way you can place the camera and ring in a steady position to snap some shots.

 

[JohnQuixote]

Date: 2/22/2005 8

7:32 AM
Author: Feydakin

If you had to fight and search to find the problem, and no one else sees it, it might not really be a problem and more of a phsycological issue.. Sort of like a scratch on a new car

Good metaphor.

I can relate to both sides of this issue. I''m one of those people who scrutinizes everything to microscopic degrees when I am first taking ownership. Jewelry, cars, stereo equipment, digital camera, even my BBQ grill: I designed and had a small outdoor kitchen built last summer and the contractor thought I was crazy because I was out there alongside his bricklayers in the Texas heat selecting which bricks I wanted to go next to each other based on small variations in hue. This was only a link in my chain of obsessive behavior. When the outlet for the rotisserie was not exactly centered over the tile pattern below I made the poor electrician re-drill through brick to move it a whopping 1/4" to the right. I must have spent over an hour every night with a measuring tape checking and re-checking the symmetry of every angle.

I had a very patient contractor.

Now, of course, the bricks are several months weathered and I never even think to look at the rotisserie outlet (it''s behind the grill). Those details would completely escape my notice if I were a new buyer looking at the home. It turned out jim-spanking dandy. There was no need for my going Defcon-1 every day on these poor guys.

Thankfully, since I know myself, I gave the contractor a nice tip.

I won''t elaborate about how I took the grill apart and cleaned it like new each time after the first few cookouts... I''m better now.

 

[ctuccikaufman]

I finally took some decent pictures, but they are too large to upload. Can I change that? I am usually pretty proficient with a computer, but feel like a moron with this...

Casey

 

[ctuccikaufman]

See if this works...

 

[ctuccikaufman]

Here''s another, although not very clear.

 

[ctuccikaufman]

Side view. The sides are really off. One side bar is squared off and the other side slopes somewhat.

 

[snow_happy]

John,
Your story was great! I am totally just like you (and I also tip people generously for dealing with my craziness). When I lived at my old apartment my boyfriend and I were watching a DVD downstairs when the DVD player stopped working. He said he would just take the one from my room upstairs but I begged him not to because I had organized the electrical cords for everything in my room "just how I like them." When I went to the bathroom he went and got the DVD player insisting it wasn''t a big deal. I flipped out and started screaming at him. (Yes we both had a good laugh about this later) I realize that I am just nuts about somethings (like the placement of electrical cords? haha). Oh yeah, I just remembered that when I was in grammar school I used to re-write the entire homework assignment instead of just erasing a mistake. Yeah I know it''s insane. Symmetry is another thing I am crazy about - I''m really particular and like to look at things under the microscope to put my mind at ease. I think it''s from being a math/science person. Which leads me to Casey''s question...

Casey,
I don''t know how particular you are about things but I would say if you are not happy about something that you should mention it to your jeweler. This is a piece I''m *assuming* you paid a good amount of your money for and you should be happy. If it were me and I didn''t get something fixed I would always notice it. (but yes I am not normal)

Good luck

 

[ame]

If it was originally designed to be symetrical I would say YES!

 

[JohnQuixote]

Date: 2/22/2005 12

1:44 PM
Author: Feydakin
Wow! I'm closer to the other end of the spectrum.. Especially with cars.. I took my new Jeep out the day I bought it and put $500 worth of scratches in it running down desert paths that were really meant for motorcycles...

Steve...Aaaaaaah! (must...go...listen...to...Magical...Trevor...)

 

[JohnQuixote]

Date: 2/22/2005 1:33:24 PM
Author: snow_happy
John,
Your story was great! I am totally just like you (and I also tip people generously for dealing with my craziness). When I lived at my old apartment my boyfriend and I were watching a DVD downstairs when the DVD player stopped working. He said he would just take the one from my room upstairs but I begged him not to because I had organized the electrical cords for everything in my room 'just how I like them.' When I went to the bathroom he went and got the DVD player insisting it wasn't a big deal. I flipped out and started screaming at him. (Yes we both had a good laugh about this later) I realize that I am just nuts about somethings (like the placement of electrical cords? haha). Oh yeah, I just remembered that when I was in grammar school I used to re-write the entire homework assignment instead of just erasing a mistake. Yeah I know it's insane. Symmetry is another thing I am crazy about - I'm really particular and like to look at things under the microscope to put my mind at ease. I think it's from being a math/science person. Which leads me to Casey's question...

Casey,
I don't know how particular you are about things but I would say if you are not happy about something that you should mention it to your jeweler. This is a piece I'm *assuming* you paid a good amount of your money for and you should be happy. If it were me and I didn't get something fixed I would always notice it. (but yes I am not normal)

Good luck

Joanne -

- Wow. We could be twins. You could give all my friends fits!

To the original poster, I agree with this sentiment: If you're not happy there should be a line of open communication between you and your jeweler... Since some of "us" in the trade are symmetri-fectionists we're generally accepting (if not empathetic) of concerns like this. Just be honest while remaining realistic.

 

[strmrdr]

Just from what i can see in the pics thats 24 inch 5 seconds yucky.
Id make him redo it or get a refund.
Are the prongs as off the tops of the stones as they look in the picture?
If so thats a major duribility concern.

 

[snow_happy]

John,
Actually my name is Joanne Casey is the name of the original poster.

I have a question for you and the other jewelers that have responded to this post. Feydakin mentioned that it is a bar set...is there any kind of pressure (i.e. tension or compression) involved in this setting? If so, the symmetry needs to be re-done (in my opinion) as round objects set under an applied pressure will have a tendency to experience shear stress if not symmetrical. A possible loss of stone could occur?

How can I make this more coherent... Ok...a round diamond with two bars at say 3 and 9 o''clock with the contact point being the exact bisector of the length of the bar versus the contact point being to one side or the other could cause a twisting effect if an external force is applied (i.e. dropping the ring or running into something) Am I correct or are there other physics involved?

Thanks

 

[Kaleigh]

Everone has given you great advice. You need to go talk to your jeweler. I am very picky and I would say to you, If it bugs you now, it''s certainly going to keep bugging you. Good luck and let us know what your jeweler says!!

 

[snow_happy]

Feydakin,

Thanks for the clarification! Can you tell I''m studying for my exams? Maybe I can use my Materials Science degree for something in jewelry?

That would be a dream


Joanne

 

[ctuccikaufman]

Thanks for all the advice. I am such a perfectionist and never know when I am being too picky. Do you think since I approved the wax, he''ll say it''s my fault? I honestly thought that he would tweak thre ring before he sent it out since I could see the symmetry issues; I figured he''d have to see them since he’s the jeweler. I just noticed the center stone is loose as well! UGH! I paid $1800 for this platinum setting (it''s 12 grams) and I''m wondering if I got ripped off. What issues are the most important to address? I don''t think I can ask him to make a new ring... What can reasonably be fixed in a platinum ring without a redo??

 

[JohnQuixote]

Joanne, got it this time

Steve got the bar/channel/tension set question for you.

As for defining what is tradition, Steve... I'll quote from Willy Shake and Hank the five: "We are the makers of tradition." Call it as you see it.

 

[PhillipSchmidt]

No Casey, you are not a jewellery expert and it is not fair to hold you to your approval of the wax.

I think the wax was probably quite good anyway.

The ring is good too. Nice weight!!

The setting is poor. That is, the setter didn''t do his job right. The rest was ok and all the problems is still fixable. To fix the ring now would be an extension of what should have been done in the manufacture/setting/finishing process. There is little or no extrra work that needs to be done that shouldn''t have been done before they OK''d, it.

Bar settings are not as easy as you would imagine to get right. The techniques are not exactly natural. This is true for custom work or not.

Anyhow there is still pleanty of metal. The centre stone is loose which is good because it means there is lee-way to square things up or perhaps unset and reset after re-cutting the grooves more acurately.

The extra cutting-in/letting-in by the setter is an issue with custom made jewellery (but not in this case, as much). The issue is with the setting process, as the setter has an extra job of squaring up the wax carvers work before he sets the ring. Bought castings are more likely already cut-in with grooves symetrically alligned and he therefore has a good guide to work from. The setter will be getting paid the same either way and custom work takes much longer. This is not an excuse but an answer to your original question Cassey.

Steve, I agree with you about people looking too closely. Casey seemed to nbe taking a reasonable approiach and I guessed the faults were in the unacceptable range. I agree with you and storn, but I''d change the relationship to a few inches. I think that is fair.

People who inspect jewellery with a loupe and who are not happy with the product unless there is no concievable fault are not an indication of what standards to work to. All you can do with them is convince them that your standards are the highest they can get. It doesn''t pay to stand on your lorals though, as you could easily be wrong. It is not all that easy to know when we have left a fault in a ring unless we look at it again after a few days or if somebody with good eyes has a look. It is the same as if you finish an essay - you need to put it down for a few days, and I think most people can understand that. Also, in every case, a jeweller will be attending to the perfect level of x and see a fault nobody can but not notice something obvious in level y, especially if it is easy to get right. As in the case in point.

Casey, I have had bar set rings come back to me for improvement. It is not a problem. I feel happier to know a better ring left the door. I don''t tend to feel badly about the original rings imperfections but glad to have a chance to make improvements. Your jeweller will either send it back to the same setter, or if he is highly-strung send it to another setter to put it right.

It won''t be a big hassle for you and I am sure you will get your ring back as good as it should be, if they are any good and if not, if your stubborn enough...

Don''t worry, it is not always the case in rings, but in this case there is pleanty of metal and the mistakes (except one missaligned stone) are in the finishing.

Hope this helps

 

[ctuccikaufman]

Phillip,

Thanks for all the info. (I never dreamed a custom ring would be this complicated...) I am going to take it back in on Thursday and hopefully the jeweler will be cooperative and not offended. I''m sure he thought he did the best job possible. I live out in the sticks and we don''t have many custom jewelers to choose from here, so he was the best of the worst I guess

Anyway, thanks so much.

That goes for everyone else too. This forum is great!!!

Casey

 

[Kaleigh]

Casey,
Good luck and keep us posted on what your jeweler says. Hopefully when you point out what''s wrong with the ring he/she will fix it to your specifications.

 

[pyramid]

Date: 2/22/2005 3:13

9 PM
Author: Feydakin
That''s bar set, not prong set, but yeah, I''m leaning toward the ''this isn''t a symetry problem'' myself.. I was going to lay it out in photoshop so I could square up some lines, but there are other issues at work here as well.. Thin shank on one side, the head is centered over the finger hole at all, etc.. Close up pictures tend to accentuate the bad in jewelry (sorta like adding 10 pounds) but I think you should go talk to your jeweler about this one..

Thin shank on one side. Platinumsmith is that just a finishing issue and what would cause it?

 

[ctuccikaufman]

Kaleigh,

I will. Thanks!

Casey

 

[PhillipSchmidt]

The band should have been more symetrical when it was wax. The person cleaning up the casting should have seen to it before it was set, so it isn''t clearly a finishing issue. Prepping is finishing also, so in a way it was a finishing issue. Most things can be called a finishing issue, though some people might argue only emerying and polishing is. It definately should have been looked at after the piece was set.

I think that problem wouldn''t have come to notice so much if the diamonds were set straight and the finishing of the bars done properly.

It is something I see a lot in carved pieces or in jewellery that is overfiled (by an apprentice?) or by someone (unlike Steve), without the eyes to pick that sort of thing up.

Phillip