Shortlisted 3 Diamonds for my Engagement Ring. Please advice

[fantasy99]

Dear all,

I have shortlisted 3 diamonds for my engagement ring and would like to see your opinion on which one is a better choice and why.

1. 0.90 E SI1 Ideal-Cut HCA 0.7Faint-Fluor
2. 0.90 E SI1 Ideal-Cut HCA 1.6 No-Fluor (only GIA cert with inclusion plot)
3. 0.93 G VS2 Ideal-Cut HCA 1.9 No-Fluor

Please see attached screenshots. HCA numbers are obtained using PriceScope HCA tool.

All 3 are within budget but there is a trade-off among Color, Clarity, Fluor and HCA. I am concerned if (1) the faint fluor maybe obvious in E color or if (2) the diamonds are eye-clean.

I am purchasing from an online portal and the portal has shared that they do not share pictures of the diamonds.

Seeking your opinions. Thanks in advance!

 

[fantasy99]

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The full detailed plot for Diamond no. 2.


I have shortlisted one more.

4. 0.90 E SI1 Ideal-Cut HCA 1.1 Faint-Fluor

 

[marcy]

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Of those you have listed I would pick the G VS2. Do they have an inclusions illustration for the VS2 stone?

 

[Amys Bling]

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Can the online company speak to whether or not the stones are eyeclean??? Buying online and being able to confirm eyeclean-ness, I would go for the VS2 stone. G color is still very white- and all the stones you posted have an excellent cut.

 

[fantasy99]

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Thanks macy and Amys for the prompt responses and feedback.

Amys, unfortunately, there is no inclusion illustration for the VS2 diamond.

macy, I have just requested for the online vendor to check if they can let me know if the diamonds are eye-clean.


May I ask:

1. How much will the HCA score affect the brightness/brilliance when all the stones are Ideal-Cut?
2. Diamond 1's GIA cert shows that the inclusion is only cloud. Is cloud formed by many pinpoints and is not a very visible inclusion, though it does affect the transparency? With an ideal cut and good HCA, will they overcome the flaws caused by cloud inclusion?

 

[centralsquare]

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When you talk to the vendor to confirm they are eye clean be sure to understand how they defined that and that you are comfortable with that.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

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When you talk to the vendor to confirm they are eye clean be sure to understand how they defined that and that you are comfortable with that.

With those clouds the SI1's will probably be eye clean.
I would ask dealers if the stones appear cloudy, not if you can see an inclusion.
Cloudy stones can be quite dead at SI1 when the cloud is the main inclusion.
If the dealer says they are OK then I would ask for the stones to be sent to an appraiser for a final judgement.

 

[yssie]

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No red flags in the numbers. However numbers on the GIA report are averaged around 8 sections of diamond, then rounded, so given just that info and no additional scans, pics, etc. we have no idea what ranges of measurements went into those printed numbers. Will your vendor be able to inspect the stones and compare them for you? And/or send additional info, pics, etc.?

Faint fluor - absolutely nothing to worry about. My GIA stones w/ faint fluor don't even glow in black-lit bars. So assuming the "faint" designation is appropriately applied...

HCA score doesn't affect anything at all. It's a blunt weeding tool - it helps you hack through a giant inventory to find stones that are "likely worthy of further investigation" - key words "likely" and "further investigation". Trying to coax further more definitive analyses from it will be useless at best, misleading at worst, as that's not what it's designed to do!

As Garry says - an SI w/ clouds as the sole/primary inclusion is worth a professional appraisal IMO. Cut is what it is, clarity is what it is, no point in comparing the two - good cut can't compensate for transparency-affecting clouds, good clarity can't compensate for poor cut. There's no guarantee that this cloudy SI won't be a lovely stone - it's just something to confirm before buying it and having it set.

Clarity grading is an opaque thing. When GIA/AGS grades clarity they're looking at only placement and 'severity' under a 10x loupe, and giving you a roadmap: the road goes from point A to point B and is three lanes wide, and it's the biggest road in the area. The clarity grade says nothing at all about real-world visibility or effect on light return, and the AGS/GIA cut grade does not in any way consider the effects of inclusions in the stone.

Definitely lots of reasons to have any stone(s) you've finally narrowed it down to shipped out to you to look at and play with in-person, see what *your* eyes think!

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

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Definitely lots of reasons to have any stone(s) you've finally narrowed it down to shipped out to you to look at and play with in-person, see what *your* eyes think!

Hi Yssie,
We very often agree, but I would use an appraiser for clouds as few consumers can pick up the subtle effects of clouds.

 

[yssie]

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Indeed:

As Garry says - an SI w/ clouds as the sole/primary inclusion is worth a professional appraisal IMO

 

[fantasy99]

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Thank you CentralSquare, Gerry and Yssie for the valuable advice.

I have never expected that it is possible to request the e-vendor to screen the stones for me. Though I have requested for an expert to view the stones and revert with descriptions and photos for the diamonds and their flaws, and the e-vendor has agreed. I do not know to what extend they would support me with.

Nevertheless, thank you for the suggestions, else I would have gotten a diamond just based on the GIA and HCA ratings.

I shall update all upon receiving their reply.

 

[fantasy99]

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Dear All,

I have received the diamond visual results requested from the vendor's gemologists. They are as follows:

Diamond no. 2; Round .90-Carat Diamond, E color, SI2 clarity; $6,790.00
- The gemologist has reported that this diamond has 2 dark inclusions edge girdle. 1 feather dark which is slightly in table. eye clean though from all angles

Diamond no. 3; Round .93 carat diamond, G colo, VS2 clarity; $7,069
- The gemologist has reported that the diamond is eye clean from all angles.

Diamond no. 4; Round .9-Carat Diamond, E color, SI1 clarity $6,327
- The gemologist has reported that this diamond does have a small black pin point, but the diamond is 100% eye clean

"Eye-clean" means that the inclusions would not be visible to a lay-person from the top down at 6-8 inches away (as it would be viewed in a setting). Considering the SI2 clarity, it is certainly possible for the diamond to be "eye-clean", while upon very close scrutiny or from alternate angles for the inclusions to be visible.

Please advise on which diamond to select, while I am still awaiting for the report on the last diamond.

I had requested for the diamonds to be inspected on 7 Aug. The vendor replied me today 9 Aug and the prices of the diamonds quoted by the vendor raised by US$400-700. Is this reasonable??

Many thanks

 

[yssie]

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What did they say about brightness, light return, comparatively? The clouds and brilliance? Do you have ISs?

 

[fantasy99]

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Dear Yssie,

Unfortunately, that's all the description given by the vendor.

May I know what is the 'ISs' you were referring to?

May I ask, based on the info provided, (though the last diamond's report has yet to be submitted) which diamond should I consider?

Thanks

 

[slg47]

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Dear Yssie,

Unfortunately, that's all the description given by the vendor.

May I know what is the 'ISs' you were referring to?

May I ask, based on the info provided, (though the last diamond's report has yet to be submitted) which diamond should I consider?

Thanks

IS = idealscope image. I see from your original post that the vendor does not provide images though.

 

[yssie]

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The information they have provided tells you about eyeclean *only*. This is good information to have, and you've got to decide what your level of comfort is, but it still leaves us at square one with regard to other important questions:
1. Do the clouds in the cloudy SI affect the brilliance of the stone?
2. Which stone *looks* the best - which stone would the gemologist recommend on appearance?

I don't see an E SI2 - and there are 3 different 0.9 E SI1s listed - and you have not given us prices to reference with - which description goes with which diamond? Which one are you still waiting on? I am totally lost.

To get that level of detail it seems that the vendor's gemologist must have had the stones in-hand (or had someone inspect them) - given that fact I can't imagine why they couldn't answer #1 - you may have to ask that question specifically. #2 - I can see a vendor refusing to opine on this, as it is subjective, but it still leaves you in the position of guessing based on numbers that have been averaged and then rounded... The G VS2 remains my pick. Safest clarity, safe colour, "safe numbers" (the 35/40.8 E SI and the 33.5/41 E SI also have "safe numbers") - that's about the best we can do w/o more info/pics.

 

[fantasy99]

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Dear slg47, thanks for sharing the term.

Dear Yssie,

Thank you for the advice.

Diamond no. 2; Round .90-Carat Diamond, E color, SI2 clarity; $6,790.00
- The gemologist has reported that this diamond has 2 dark inclusions edge girdle. 1 feather dark which is slightly in table. eye clean though from all angles



Diamond no. 3; Round .93 carat diamond, G colo, VS2 clarity; $7,069
- The gemologist has reported that the diamond is eye clean from all angles.


pls see next post...

 

[fantasy99]

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Diamond no. 4; Round .9-Carat Diamond, E color, SI1 clarity $6,327
- The gemologist has reported that this diamond does have a small black pin point, but the diamond is 100% eye clean



Hi Yssie and all,

I have attached the diamonds accordingly for your review.

Looks like the vendor will not be sending me photos or ISs.

Feel free to share your views.

Thanks

PS: I am waiting for the report for one more diamond

Diamond no. 1: Round 0.90 E SI1 Ideal-Cut: the price should be between $6327 and $6790

 

[yssie]

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Ah, okay. If you're not going to be able to get more info don't even bother w/ the one you're still waiting on the report for, you have three other more promising candidates!

 

[fantasy99]

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Dear Yssie and all,

I have one final question before I conclude on buying one of the diamonds.

The report of the last diamond states that there is a white inclusion caused by the cloud, but the diamond is eye-clean.

May I know how bad/obvious is a white inclusion caused by clouds? What are the considerations to decide how bad it is?

If it is not, then I would take the diamond (since it should be better than having a black pin point). Else I would take the G color VS2 diamond.

Many thanks

 

[fantasy99]

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A Big thank you to Yssie, Gary and all for your valuable comments and suggestions. Appreciate your openness to share your opinions.

I have purchased the ER and will share with all upon receiving.

PS : I like to correct my previous post on the increase in price. It was due to changes in exchange rate. My mistake.

 

[yssie]

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Congrats fantasy!

Which did you choose? Looking forward to seeing the ring

 

[fantasy99]

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Dear Yssie,

I was debating between #4 and #1, but decided to go for #1.

The report on Diamond #1 states:
There is a white inclusion on the crown girdle side, and the brilliance is not effected by the inclusion.

I intend to request for one of the prongs to be placed to conceal the inclusion if possible.

 

[yssie]

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Dear Yssie,

I was debating between #4 and #1, but decided to go for #1.

The report on Diamond #1 states:
There is a white inclusion on the crown girdle side, and the brilliance is not effected by the inclusion.

I intend to request for one of the prongs to be placed to conceal the inclusion if possible.

Perfect. Even if the prong doesn't totally cover it, if it's nearby the eye will go straight to the bigger, more interesting prong so it's still an effective deterrent!