She'll marry me ;-) Finding my pefect ring. Budget $5,500

[smartdriver]

Hi everyone.

I too am on a mission to find the perfect ring for my perfect girl. phssttt.... she'll willing to marry me for a Round .75 ct ^_^ , but I want to give her more. I stumble on this great forum and what else to do, but to ask all the pros here to make the wise decision of picking a diamond and what my choice are? Would you all love to help me out, pretty please? I want to propose by the end of January. -_-


I’ve been to 3 local jewelers and haven’t done any haggling. Wanted to work with a jeweler from Chinatown, but he has to order the diamond for me and wants a deposit before bringing in the diamond and I’m not even sure if I would like it. He genuinely wanted to help me and try to educate me on diamonds, but only showed me 2 GIA rounds. So I came here hoping I’ll find something online and should I try to bring it to the B&M store and try to get them to match the prices?

Anyways, While I was busy searching for prices of a Round .85 EX/EX/EX F/ VS2 Eye Clean, I didn’t realize how much a setting would cost till I went to Robins Brothers and they try to sell me something called Palladium, but I didn’t get it. So now I decided to get a simple Platinum solitaire setting, I’ve read somewhere that the “Tapered Tiffany Style Half Round Setting” is very stunning, but I don’t know which site it was from that have this setting.

My budget is $5000-5500 total for diamond and setting.
At first I was set on GIA Round 0.85 CT F/ VS2 EX/EX/EX. Platinum(950) Tapered Tiffany Style Half Round Setting.
I would sacrifice color and clarity to get something bigger, but not discount cut quality because I want sparkly.
I want to compare GIA colors G H I J / clarity VS2, SI 1 and see if I would be happy with a lower color and clarity so I can get closer to 1.0+ CT, but I don’t know where I would be able to see and compare. I don’t want to waste any jeweler’s time and 3 jewelers don’t have GIA inventory to compare.

Please give me your advice on my dilemma? Where can I view diamonds, I live in Los Angeles and have a huge diamond district. I’m lousy at writing, sorry for the rambling so if anything is unclear, just ask me to clarify. Thank you all for this wonderful community.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Re: She'll marry me Finding my pefect ring. Budget $5,50

You've come to the right place! Many of us found PS when looking for a diamond, and believe me, most of us do better buying the diamond and setting online!

You do need excellent/ideal cut, but you can go to G or H and still be at the upper end of the near colorless range (and I color can save you some money if you find you like it!). Ideal cut diamonds are going to look bright and white face up because of the cut.

Here is a stone that I think is a great value...great cut but has a little discount because polish is excellent instead of ideal...and trust me, that is invisible to your eyes!

http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-2728086.htm ($4164 with pricescope discount and wire payment)

Settings ($1200+ each):

http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-2728086.htm

http://www.whiteflash.com/engagement-rings/solitaire/legato-sleek-line-solitaire-engagement-ring-729.htm

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Re: She'll marry me Finding my pefect ring. Budget $5,50

I need to add that I think going to look at diamond color is pretty fruitless because jewelry store lighting just does not allow you to see color differences accurately if at all. People are told to do that here all the time, but unless the jeweler will take you to an untinted window or literally go outside, you won't really be able to see much. D and I color look the same to me in Tiffany's! Here is a really great visual of diamond color (you'll need to look at 3-4 pages):

http://www.goodoldgold.com/4Cs/Color/Colorless/

 

[slg47]

Re: She'll marry me Finding my pefect ring. Budget $5,50

I think 0.75 ct is a very nice size! here is one combo

http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/Diamonds/diamond-details/0.756-H-VS1-round-Diamond-AGS-104049673005
http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/engagement-rings/solitaire/tapered-tiffany-style-half-round-platinum-5540p

 

[milton333]

Re: She'll marry me Finding my pefect ring. Budget $5,50

Are you set on platinum for the setting? You can save with white gold (I'm going to post some options, it's $400 difference between WG and platinum, which is almost 10% of your budget). Just checking.

Also, when you say a Tiffany setting, there are lots of variations on solitaire settings - does it specifically have to be a reproduction of a Tiffany style, or would other lovely solitaire settings be options?

Here's a couple of diamonds:
http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamonds/diamond-details/0.807-g-si1-round-diamond-ags-104055878079
http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamonds/diamond-details/0.840-h-vs2-round-diamond-gia-2116375898

With setting options:
http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/engagement-rings/solitaire/tapered-tiffany-style-half-round-18k-white-gold-5540w18
http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/engagement-rings/solitaire/classic-truth-solitaire-18k-white-gold-5369w18
http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/engagement-rings/solitaire/tapered-tiffany-style-half-round-platinum-5540p
http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/engagement-rings/solitaire/classic-truth-solitaire-platinum-5369p

(Platinum would put you over budget)

More options:
Diamonds:
http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-2728109.htm
http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-2728086.htm
http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-2677731.htm

Settings:
http://www.whiteflash.com/engagement-rings/solitaire/contemporary-tiffany-style-solitaire-engagement-ring-1416.htm
http://www.whiteflash.com/engagement-rings/solitaire/legato-sleek-line-solitaire-engagement-ring-728.htm (I have this setting and love it)

ETA: Regarding color. Body color in a diamond is more visible the larger the diamond gets. It's also more visible from the side or profile view of the diamond - it is less apparent face up, especially with an ideal cut diamond. Many of the "mall diamonds" are I-J-K color. I got engaged when I was 19, had no certification on the diamond, and never thought that it was tinted. I had it appraised, and it appears to be a J. It was very small, however.

Perception of color or tint in a diamond is very individual, and some people are more sensitive to color than others. That's why the safe advice is to stick to G-H in color for an engagement ring that is a surprise. Unless your girlfriend has seen lower-colored stones in person and has no problem with them, there's some risk in picking a lower colored diamond. This is where I would recommend consulting your girlfriend regarding her preferences.

You said she'd take a smaller diamond, and that you want to prioritize excellent cut. That's great - cut is most important. In my opinion, unless your girlfriend has stated a preference for a specific size and knows she would need to go down in color to get that size, I would stick to the "safe" color zones of G-H, which are budget maximizing but don't risk a tint that might be visible to your GF. If you know that she would be okay with a lower color, we can make some other recommendations.

Also, no, I would not deal with a brick and mortar store, I'd go solely with an online purchase, it's too easy to be scammed and pay too much for low quality diamonds at so many B&M jewelers, in my opinion.

ETA2: I did add an I colored stone from Whiteflash, because it looks like it would be lovely.

 

[Gypsy]

Re: She'll marry me Finding my pefect ring. Budget $5,50

I personally would consider this one.

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/H-SI1-Premium-Cut-Round-Diamond-1408021.asp It is a GIA VG/VG it's an H SI and the size of 90 points is worth calling James Allen to find out if it is eyeclean and if so, then to get an Idealscope image. It scores a 1.7 on the HCA. $4,836 plus setting http://www.jamesallen.com/engagement-rings/solitaire/2mm-Comfort-Fit-White-Gold-Solitaire-Ring.html it's slightly under budget.

 

[smartdriver]

Re: She'll marry me Finding my pefect ring. Budget $5,50

You're all amazing.
Okay gf getting angry, doesn't know what i'm doing , need to sleep on this. Check it in the morning again. Thanks agian.

I really want a Platinum 4 prong setting for her .
I do want to stay with H color to be safe .
I will sacrafice the size of the diamond to get Platinum .

Seems like most of you prefer to get VS1/2 instead of SI1, why is that? Keep the advice coming, if I buy the setting and diamond from different e-tailers, how would I get the stone set? Send the stone to the place I buy the setting from???

DIAMONDS (in order of preference)
0.812 ct H VS2 / $4,163.52 (diamondseeker2006, milton333)
http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-2728086.htm

0.756 H VS1 / $4,415 (slg47)
http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/Diamonds/diamond-details/0.756-H-VS1-round-Diamond-AGS-104049673005

0.807 G SI1 / $4,752 (milton333)
http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamonds/diamond-details/0.807-g-si1-round-diamond-ags-104055878079

0.840 H VS2 / $4,631 (milton333)
http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamonds/diamond-details/0.840-h-vs2-round-diamond-gia-2116375898

0.91 Carat H-SI1 / $4,690 (Gypsy)
http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/H-SI1-Premium-Cut-Round-Diamond-1408021.asp

SETTINGS (in order of preference)
Legato Sleek Line $1,275.00 (diamondseeker2006)
http://www.whiteflash.com/engagement-rings/solitaire/legato-sleek-line-solitaire-engagement-ring-729.htm

Classic Truth Solitaire $1250.00 (milton333)
http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/engagement-rings/solitaire/classic-truth-solitaire-platinum-5369p

Tapered Tiffany Style Half Round $1250.00 (slg47, milton333)
http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/engagement-rings/solitaire/tapered-tiffany-style-half-round-platinum-5540p

 

[Gypsy]

Re: She'll marry me Finding my pefect ring. Budget $5,50

I'd love an eyeclean SI cause I don't believe for something I can't see.

But with diamond inventories being what they are there is normally very little difference in price between SI and VS so ... why not?

 

[farmer gal]

Re: She'll marry me Finding my pefect ring. Budget $5,50

You could call GOG and see what six prongs they would have in your budget, although you probably would have to go with white gold

Diamond:
http://goodoldgold.com/diamond/8853/

 

[bigdiamondtinygal]

Re: She'll marry me Finding my pefect ring. Budget $5,50

This one is just a bit above your budget but it maybe JBEG will come down on the price:

http://jewelsbyericagrace.smugmug.com/Jewelry/Rings-Antique-diamonds/102ct-Transitional-Cut-Diamond/17519973_dQHXKC#1333882505_KcB

Here’s a lovely loose vintage round (you could always ask them if they have a simple setting in your budget as well):

http://jewelsbyericagrace.smugmug.com/Jewelry/Loose-Diamonds/106ct-Old-European-Cut-Diamond/20294765_hSX9Fx#1604765343_hkBJKrN

Here’s a link to some of their other stones:

http://www.jewelsbyericagrace.com/loose_antique_and_estate_diamonds


Also – I think Mark Broumand is in downtown LA. He has a lot of newly cut round diamond rings in your budget:

http://www.markbroumand.com/product/162ct-Round-Brilliant-Cut-Diamond-Engagement-Anniversary-Ring__2252-1D3321610.aspx

 

[slg47]

Re: She'll marry me Finding my pefect ring. Budget $5,50

definitely get the ring and setting at the same place...it will save you mounting/shipping fees.

 

[smartdriver]

Re: She'll marry me Finding my pefect ring. Budget $5,50

So much thinking.

What do you all think is the best choice for me?
Anyone else have a H or I color stone and absolutely cannot tell the color difference?
What should I consider when buying the diamond, any further research I have to do except reading the descriptions?
Do I have to call the dealer and ask if they are eye clean?

Can I get some reply votes on which DIAMOND and SETTING others members like please.

 

[smartdriver]

Re: She'll marry me Finding my pefect ring. Budget $5,50

The price was $5,187.00 for the GOG stone, but I really want Platinum rings for my budget. Thanks for your help farmer gal.

You could call GOG and see what six prongs they would have in your budget, although you probably would have to go with white gold

Diamond:
http://goodoldgold.com/diamond/8853/

 

[Gypsy]

Re: She'll marry me Finding my pefect ring. Budget $5,50

Your post above where you compile all the recommendations in order of preference is where you should start.

It looks like your top two are stones from WF and BGD and platinum settings from both. So call both of them up, ask for eyeleanliness of the stones ask them for a bottom line price for what you want, and ask them if there are any additional pricing breaks they can offer you. Then get the bottom line, decide whose customer service you prefer and go for it. I think either of your top two would be fabulous.

 

[0-0-0]

Re: She'll marry me Finding my pefect ring. Budget $5,50

I personally cannot see the difference between H and I color grades. If you want to minimize the chances of seeing tint in the stone my vote is for the BGD G SI1 from your list of options. http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamonds/diamond-details/0.807-g-si1-round-diamond-ags-104055878079

Definitely ask the vendor whether the stones are eye clean and at what distance/angle. From my experience VS2 is most likely eye clean from any distance/angle as long as the inclusions are clear/white. SI1 and below will be more on a case by case basis.

I agree with slg47 that you should get the stone and setting from the same vendor, especially if you are on a tight schedule.

 

[smartdriver]

Perfect ring Under $5,000

Going to try to stay under $5,000 budget.
I think she is color sensative so I should aim for G color and less clarity like SI1, myself I can also tell there is a color different between G, H from the photos (at least its true on the Brian Gavin site). So to get a better color, I want to discount clairity, but the 2 diamonds on the bottom that I found are from GIA in Virtual Selection.

So you all swear by Hearts and Arrows or is GIA EXCELLENT about the same(really that big of differene in sparkle)?
Will I be better off with the AGS (H color/VS2) or get a GIA EX (G color/SI1), will I be able to tell the color difference?
If I get GIA EX (G color/SI1), I would have to call and ask if they are Eye Clean?
Is it safe the do wire transfer to save money or safer to use credit cards for security and disputing reasons?

Top Pick
0.812 ct H VS2 / $4,337.00 AGS
http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-2728086.htm


These choices are in thier Virtural Selection, what does that mean?

0.80 ct G SI1 / $3,876.00 GIA
http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-2715649.htm

0.80 ct G SI1 / $3,957.00 GIA
http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-2707909.htm

 

[slg47]

Re: She'll marry me Finding my pefect ring. Budget $5,50

virtual selection means that the vendor does not physically own the stones. they can call them in and evaluate for you if you would like, but there may be a fee associated if you do not purchase to cover shipping costs (check with the vendor).

the ones in-house have already been vetted and often come with attractive upgrade policies (make sure to check the fine print if this is important to you).

with rounds since you can go more 'by the numbers' it is possible to find good candidates and call them in. however if you are looking for SIs you risk them not being eye-clean.

I wouldn't pick that one you linked because of the 63% depth. If you are going to weed through the virtual inventory the HCA tool can be useful pricescope.com/tools/hca

 

[0-0-0]

Re: Perfect ring Under $5,000

I think she is color sensative so I should aim for G color and less clarity like SI1, myself I can also tell there is a color different between G, H from the photos (at least its true on the Brian Gavin site).

It's not possible to compare color accurately from individual photos. At minimum, the stones need to be in the same picture side by side with a neutral background. Differences among individual color grades are very small.

G to J colors from left to right. Screen capture from GOG's video: http://vimeo.com/3288695

 

[smartdriver]

Re: She'll marry me Finding my pefect ring. Budget $5,50

Thank you so much everyone. I am trying to work out the details.

Is it safe the do wire transfer to save money or safer to use credit cards for security and disputing reasons?

Anyone will experience seeing a G color vs a H color stone side by side, is there a huge difference or F color with H color?

 

[makhro82]

Re: She'll marry me Finding my pefect ring. Budget $5,50

You could possibly really knock her socks off with this: [URL='https://www.pricescope.com/forum/preloved-ps-jewels/ritani-endless-love-platinum-1-01ct-diamond-t170311.html']https://www.pricescope.com/forum/preloved-ps-jewels/ritani-endless-love-platinum-1-01ct-diamond-t170311.html[/URL]

If she likes this type of setting it will get you over a carat and within budget!

 

[makhro82]

Re: She'll marry me Finding my pefect ring. Budget $5,50

You could possibly really knock her socks off with this: [URL='https://www.pricescope.com/forum/preloved-ps-jewels/ritani-endless-love-platinum-1-01ct-diamond-t170311.html']https://www.pricescope.com/forum/preloved-ps-jewels/ritani-endless-love-platinum-1-01ct-diamond-t170311.html[/URL]

If she likes this type of setting it will get you over a carat and within budget!

Wow I just looked up her original thread and this is gorgeous: [URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/my-e-ring-ritani-endless-love.78432/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/my-e-ring-ritani-endless-love.78432/[/URL]

Would she like something like this? Are you opposed to "used"?

 

[smartdriver]

Re: She'll marry me Finding my pefect ring. Budget $5,50

The ring looks gorgeous on the photos in her original thread, but the information on the ring she is selling are conflicting. Maybe they are different rings, but I message her and hopefully she replies. I don’t mind a used rings, I was actually wanting to buy used, but didn’t know where or how to find one. THANKS makhro82!


Ring for sale is:
ritanti endless love platinum diamond engagement ring, set with a 1.01ct GIA graded H color SI1 (eye clean) diamond.

Original ring thread is:
1.04ct RB
G
SI2 (eye clean)
ExExExVg

You could possibly really knock her socks off with this: [URL='https://www.pricescope.com/forum/preloved-ps-jewels/ritani-endless-love-platinum-1-01ct-diamond-t170311.html']https://www.pricescope.com/forum/preloved-ps-jewels/ritani-endless-love-platinum-1-01ct-diamond-t170311.html[/URL]

If she likes this type of setting it will get you over a carat and within budget!

Wow I just looked up her original thread and this is gorgeous: [URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/my-e-ring-ritani-endless-love.78432/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/my-e-ring-ritani-endless-love.78432/[/URL]

Would she like something like this? Are you opposed to "used"?

 

[makhro82]

Re: She'll marry me Finding my pefect ring. Budget $5,50

The ring looks gorgeous on the photos in her original thread, but the information on the ring she is selling are conflicting. Maybe they are different rings, but I message her and hopefully she replies. I don’t mind a used rings, I was actually wanting to buy used, but didn’t know where or how to find one. THANKS makhro82!


Ring for sale is:
ritanti endless love platinum diamond engagement ring, set with a 1.01ct GIA graded H color SI1 (eye clean) diamond.

Original ring thread is:
1.04ct RB
G
SI2 (eye clean)
ExExExVg

You could possibly really knock her socks off with this: [URL='https://www.pricescope.com/forum/preloved-ps-jewels/ritani-endless-love-platinum-1-01ct-diamond-t170311.html']https://www.pricescope.com/forum/preloved-ps-jewels/ritani-endless-love-platinum-1-01ct-diamond-t170311.html[/URL]

If she likes this type of setting it will get you over a carat and within budget!

Wow I just looked up her original thread and this is gorgeous: [URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/my-e-ring-ritani-endless-love.78432/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/my-e-ring-ritani-endless-love.78432/[/URL]

Would she like something like this? Are you opposed to "used"?

I noticed that after I posted. I wonder if she was confused about the specs initially since she may not have had that the cert or something? I hope she responds. Either way if it is a go send it a mutually agreed upon third party appraiser

 

[Amys Bling]

Re: She'll marry me Finding my pefect ring. Budget $5,50

I'd love an eyeclean SI cause I don't believe for something I can't see.

But with diamond inventories being what they are there is normally very little difference in price between SI and VS so ... why not?

Totally agree- but I tend to favor color, cut and carat over clarity so as long as it's eyeclean, I am all for it!

 

[Amys Bling]

Re: She'll marry me Finding my pefect ring. Budget $5,50

You could possibly really knock her socks off with this: [URL='https://www.pricescope.com/forum/preloved-ps-jewels/ritani-endless-love-platinum-1-01ct-diamond-t170311.html']https://www.pricescope.com/forum/preloved-ps-jewels/ritani-endless-love-platinum-1-01ct-diamond-t170311.html[/URL]

If she likes this type of setting it will get you over a carat and within budget!

Wow I just looked up her original thread and this is gorgeous: [URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/my-e-ring-ritani-endless-love.78432/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/my-e-ring-ritani-endless-love.78432/[/URL]

Would she like something like this? Are you opposed to "used"?

that is a stunning ring! I hope you get the info straightened out.

 

[smartdriver]

Re: She'll marry me Finding my pefect ring. Budget $5,50

Thanks Amys Bling for your input, I totally agree with the way you favor the 4C.
Thanks so much makhro82, this already knock my socks off! But I have some questions.

Is there any other way to contact the person selling that ring, besides just posted on the thread?
[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/forum/post3097593.html']https://www.pricescope.com/forum/post3097593.html[/URL]

-If I do buy the ring should I get it looked at by the 3rd party?
-What is the typical cost to have an expert look at the ring and who would you all reccomend? I live in Los Angeles.
-Any other cost or considerations I should consider when buying used, so I can include it into my purchase price and bargining considerations?
-Will the ring look brand new after its been cleaned, how much does it cost to clean/polish?
-Is this ring resizable?

I'd love an eyeclean SI cause I don't believe for something I can't see.

But with diamond inventories being what they are there is normally very little difference in price between SI and VS so ... why not?

Totally agree- but I tend to favor color, cut and carat over clarity so as long as it's eyeclean, I am all for it!

 

[smartdriver]

Verteran members please help. Why won't the seller reply to

Thank you everyone for your advice and knowledge here on PS, I've taken everyone's advice into consideration. I found out that my girl would prefer a setting with channels/pave and (makhro82) suggested a very good used ring within my budget for me which I don't mind as long as it is in good condition and I believe it would knock her socks off if I were to get it.

I loved all your help, you all see I am defiantly new here and no veteran at all. I really want to know more about the ring a seller is selling here, but they won't respond to me, maybe I am new here. I want to send a personal message to her but seem like this forum doesn't have that feature.

Would any veterans be so kind to help me ask for more information about the ring that is for sale? Here is the ring: [URL='https://www.pricescope.com/forum/preloved-ps-jewels/ritani-endless-love-platinum-1-01ct-diamond-t170311.html']https://www.pricescope.com/forum/preloved-ps-jewels/ritani-endless-love-platinum-1-01ct-diamond-t170311.html[/URL]

Thanks.

 

[Dreamer_D]

Re: She'll marry me Finding my pefect ring. Budget $5,50

Hi SD, I noticed the inconsistencies in her listing and asked her to post the GIA lab report to clear it all up. She is not allowed to comment here in this thread since she is selling the ring, but she can answer your questions in her post or via her listing on DB:

http://diamondbistro.com/category/216/Natural-Diamond-Center/listings/25784/GIA-101ct-RB-in-Ritani-Setting.html

You can message her through her DB listing, just hit the "contact seller button" on the right. You will need to register to do so.

Ask the seller to post or e-mail you a copy of the lab report. You should also, for a purchase of this size, consider asking her to handle the sale via a reputable appraiser or using an escrow service, so that you can make sure it is the diamond for you. If it is an SI2, for example, you will want to make sure it is eye clean to your standards and you will want to make sure that the diamond is the one described in the lab report.

 

[smartdriver]

Re: She'll marry me Finding my pefect ring. Budget $5,50

Thanks Dreamer D.

Looks like the info changed again on the diamond listing on DB. If she has the GIA paper work she won't have any confusion, maybe it's lost, but I read that it was recently appraised also. I am

original post
1.04ct RB, G, SI2, ExExExVg

Preloved PS Jewels
1.01ct GIA graded H color SI1, comes with paper work from GIA

Diamond Bistro
1.01ct round brilliant diamond color H, SI2 , VG/VG

 

[vintagelover229]

Re: She'll marry me Finding my pefect ring. Budget $5,50

Here is her link and it appears she updated it with the GIA info but it's not on DB anymore (probably a typo she didn't notice and didn't know how to edit so she probably removed the listing and will relist it later. I'm speculating here but if I were you I'd have it shipped directly to a trusted appraiser in your area to verify that it is indeed what it's sold as and have the sale pending the approval of that.

It looks like a great buy though-I saw the listing on DB before it was pulled and it has a stunner of a stone and the setting is amazing!

[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/forum/post3098596.html#p3098596']https://www.pricescope.com/forum/post3098596.html#p3098596[/URL]