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She won''t have it appraised. She won''t inpect it under a loop. What''s "Quality" mean then??

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did you check out the links to those ovals?
 
Honestly, I really think your best bet is to get a nice stone and place it in a cheap temporary setting. She might want purple sidestones, but it''s really hard to tell. My sister loves blue. She would surround herself with blue if possible. She swoons over a good sapphire. Now, though, as she''s thinking about her e-ring, she''s decided she just wants diamonds because they will match with anything.
 
Date: 10/28/2004 12
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2:43 PM
Author: reena
did you check out the links to those ovals?
Click to expand...

Just did...Finially!
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But tell me...What is it about them that caught your eye? I can see they''re an upgrade (VS2) from what I was looking for, in bigger stones, but anything else?


(I understand the 4-Cs except for Cut. But to be honest, not much more...ie: Depth, table and whatnot. I''ve read about all of it, but don''t really have a handle on it all. Was it one of those factors that made you link them?)
 
CEP, cut means that a stone is cut so that it maximizes brilliance, fire, and scintillation (to varying degrees). It''s really an optics thing. If a diamond is cut badly it means it won''t reflect light properly and you''ll have a dull, lifeless stone. Have you read the Pricescope tutorial yet? It should help answer some of your questions.
 
well, i picked them mostly because (1) they are in the carat weight, color and clarity range you were looking for, (2) they''re within your budget and (3) their specs look pretty good to me on paper based on the cut grading chart for ovals on www.gemappraisers.com. i am not an oval expert by any means, but there aren''t a lot of those around here so i figured i''d take a stab to see if i could help you out a bit.

i didn''t search for SI1 or SI2 stones simply because there''s no way to tell on paper if they''re eyeclean and i was only trying to give you a general idea of what''s out there, but if you can find one that IS eyeclean i think they''re a great value. if the stone is one that the e-vendor has in stock, the vendor can probably eyeball it for you to describe the nature and location of the inclusion.
 
Date: 10/28/2004 1:13:48 PM
Author: Hest88
CEP, cut means that a stone is cut so that it maximizes brilliance, fire, and scintillation (to varying degrees). It''s really an optics thing. If a diamond is cut badly it means it won''t reflect light properly and you''ll have a dull, lifeless stone. Have you read the Pricescope tutorial yet? It should help answer some of your questions.
Click to expand...

Thanks Hest!!

I know what cut mean, but what I''m saying is that I probably wouldn''t recognize a good one if I saw it. Nor do I know how they''re rated. They don''t seem to be rated as easily as Color and Clarity...By using progressive numbers or letters. If I''m not mistaken, it''s usually just "Excellent" or "Good" or whatnot?

In other words...More subjective??

And I also understand the Cut can control the fire, or brilliance or whatever. But if I''m not mistaken, unlike Color and Clarity, I can''t enter Cut criteria on the stone search engine here when looking for specific stones in my price/quality range?
 
see my post above.

you're right--judging cut is not a simple matter of looking at a preset grade like "good" or "excellent". you need to do some research so that you can make an educated judgment based on the specs of the stone--especially if you're planning to buy online. i stand by my recommendation to do the tutorial here and at goodoldgold.com, and to check out the cut grading charts, to start.
 
Date: 10/28/2004 1:36:32 PM
Author: reena
well, i picked them mostly because (1) they are in the carat weight, color and clarity range you were looking for, (2) they''re within your budget and (3) their specs look pretty good to me on paper based on the cut grading chart for ovals on www.gemappraisers.com. i am not an oval expert by any means, but there aren''t a lot of those around here so i figured i''d take a stab to see if i could help you out a bit.

i didn''t search for SI1 or SI2 stones simply because there''s no way to tell on paper if they''re eyeclean and i was only trying to give you a general idea of what''s out there, but if you can find one that IS eyeclean i think they''re a great value. if the stone is one that the e-vendor has in stock, the vendor can probably eyeball it for you to describe the nature and location of the inclusion.
Click to expand...
Now I understand!!

You were helping me on the "Cut" part? If so...COOL!!! As you can see in my post above this one, that''s the one part I''m having a real hard time with! I''ll definately put those stones at the top of my list!!

(I''m pretty much talked into a 1.5 carat instead of something larger...But now I need to decide if I want to look at a round stone instead. But then, my clarity and color quality will go down a bit. I liked the fact that the stone you gave me were of VERY high quality!! Thank you so much!!)
 
Date: 10/28/2004 1:39:28 PM
Author: reena
see my post above.

you''re right--judging cut is not a simple matter of looking at a preset grade like ''good'' or ''excellent''. you need to do some research so that you can make an educated judgment based on the specs of the stone--especially if you''re planning to buy online. i stand by my recommendation to do the tutorial here and at goodoldgold.com, and to check out the cut grading charts, to start.
Click to expand...

Will do!!

I''ll also...More than likely...Simply list my choices here, after I''ve got them down to a half dozen or there-abouts. Just to make sure I''m on the right track and not making some kind of big mistake. Then before ordering, show the final one.

You guys have been SO helpful!!

By the way...Will a vendor from here send me 2 or 3 stones to inspect and choose from? Or just the one I buy (Which I''ll then have the customary 10 days to return)??
 
sure, i mean, that''s what i was trying to do, anyway. but please understand that i am not an expert--i was just making an educated guess based on the cut charts and what i know about diamonds generally. but if i were looking, those stones would catch my eye as being worthy of further examination. i think a 1.5-1.7 carat stone is a good range based on your budget. i think $8k for a 2 carat stone might be pushing it. (plus you need to save $$ for the setting and sapphires!)

round brilliants are gorgeous diamonds too, and so classic for an e-ring. really, it''s just a matter of personal taste. do you really have no idea whatsoever what kind of ring she would like? shape stone? platinum/white gold/yellow gold? style of setting? have you guys ever gone casually browsing for rings? or has she ever pointed anything out to you?
 
Date: 10/28/2004 1:47:41 PM
Author: reena
sure, i mean, that's what i was trying to do, anyway. but please understand that i am not an expert--i was just making an educated guess based on the cut charts and what i know about diamonds generally. but if i were looking, those stones would catch my eye as being worthy of further examination. i think a 1.5-1.7 carat stone is a good range based on your budget. i think $8k for a 2 carat stone might be pushing it. (plus you need to save $$ for the setting and sapphires!)

round brilliants are gorgeous diamonds too, and so classic for an e-ring. really, it's just a matter of personal taste. do you really have no idea whatsoever what kind of ring she would like? shape stone? platinum/white gold/yellow gold? style of setting? have you guys ever gone casually browsing for rings? or has she ever pointed anything out to you?
Click to expand...

I'm pretty sold on the lower carat (1.5 versus approaching 2.0) due to two factors...I don't want something guady and I do want something "Stunning" in appearance.

As for what kind of stone?

Clueless. Absolutely, positively clueless.

She's not much into jewelry. Just small stuff. She wears one ring with her kid's birtstones. Very small. And she wears a favorite necklace a lot...Kind of like that heart necklace I showed here, but it's a martini glass. Not that she's a big drinker...Not even close...But she loves life and is in it for the fun. She doen't even wear a watch. She wears earrings, but nothing that stands out...Just simple standard loops. And to tell you the truth, I only know that because I find them around my house when she leaves them.

So again...CLUELESS!

But...I am absolutely confident that she'll LOVE whatever I give her because of that. (Which is cool and makes things a lot easier). I originally picked the oval and pear because I saw some woman's ring once, and she had a oval...And I thought it was very cool! Then I started looking for this ring and found that ovals and pears tend to be cheaper than round ones. So I thought "Why not?". But, now that I've decided to step back down to a 1.5, it looks like a round one can fit into my budget...So now I'm considering them.

Make any sense?
 
it makes complete sense. i personally ADORE ovals, but a round brilliant is probably "safer". that being said, if she''s easygoing and you know she''ll like whatever you pick, then go for it! i''m sure she will appreciate all of the thought you put into selecting something beautiful and unique just for her. :)
 
Date: 10/28/2004 2
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5:14 PM
Author: reena
it makes complete sense. i personally ADORE ovals, but a round brilliant is probably ''safer''. that being said, if she''s easygoing and you know she''ll like whatever you pick, then go for it! i''m sure she will appreciate all of the thought you put into selecting something beautiful and unique just for her. :)
Click to expand...

This is what''s cool. She''ll like whatever I get her. I''ve thought about dialing down on the expense and then spending the extra on a honeymoon, and she would be GREAT with that. But then I decided I''ll just work a little hard, sell some of my toys, save a little on other crap I blow money on and do both!!

And knowing her is why I''m looking at the sapphires. They''re cool and pretty and something different and unique for her. She''ll dig that! And now that I''ve talked about it here, if I can do the purple sapphire thing, that will be a BIG winner with her!! She''ll cry for DAYS!!
 
CEP,
You are so funny. You really come off as such a sweet considerate guy, yet fun to hang around with. Your girl is one lucky gal.
 
Date: 10/28/2004 2:19:38 PM
Author: Chrono
CEP,
You are so funny. You really come off as such a sweet considerate guy, yet fun to hang around with. Your girl is one lucky gal.
Click to expand...

Thanks, but I''m the lucky one! You have no idea!!!
 
It''s great to see your transformation occur just within this thread!

I was much like you not too long ago and was concerned with carat first. For me clarity came next and then color. Cut was really nowhere on my radar. It was through this site that I learned that cut really is the most important thing (to me and many others) when it comes to diamonds.

Check out my post of the diamond I bought as a result of LEARNING about diamonds here and through Good Old Gold.

https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/all-i-have-are-these-pics.19943/

As you can see it''s a 1.38 and it was within your price range. I went with a designer platinum setting that put it just out side of your range, but had I chosen white gold it would have been right in your wheelhouse.

My ring happened to be Internally Flawless... but that was just a bonus. I was more than willing to go down to a VS1 to go up in size. But when I saw well the diamond rated on cut, saw the fact that J-color really is Near Colorless, and COMPARED the diamond to other diamonds, I knew that I wasn''t going to do any better.

Note: You can see a little yellow in the side view picture of my ring. **It does not look like that in real life** The ring looks absolutely colorless like the face-up pictures. The yellow color really came from the nature of the pic, (on it''s site with a pure white background and there is exterior color that is being picked up) as you can see, the platinum setting itself took on some color as well in that picture. As was stated earlier in this thread, the brilliance of the diamond really has a effect on how noticible color may be (well cut diamonds also look bigger because they have more "presence").

My advise... read everything in the Knowledge section of this site and read all of the information on Good Old Gold http://www.goodoldgold.com/4csmain.htm.
 
Reena...

Check this out: http://www.abazias.com/database/rapinfo.asp?stock=8225245&flag=ps

1.51

E

VS-1

For $7576.00


Now...I didn''t look at the cut, because quite frankly, I still don''t understand all that. But, compared to the great stones you listed, this one has higher Clarity and Color at a similar price!!

Now...I''m quite sure there is a reason for this (Maybe because the depth and table are about the same or something?)

Anyway...I found it odd that these were in the middle of lesser rated stones when I filtered my search via price.
 
20.jpg


Isn't this lovely? SuperbCert recently started carrying ovals in addition to their rounds and princesses. This is a 1.36, D color, VS2 clarity for $8600.

They also have an I, VVS2 1.36 for $5975. They are listed under "Diamond Specials" on their website.
 
Date: 10/28/2004 3:16:10 PM
Author: kfds
It''s great to see your transformation occur just within this thread!

I was much like you not too long ago and was concerned with carat first. For me clarity came next and then color. Cut was really nowhere on my radar. It was through this site that I learned that cut really is the most important thing (to me and many others) when it comes to diamonds.

Check out my post of the diamond I bought as a result of LEARNING about diamonds here and through Good Old Gold.

https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/all-i-have-are-these-pics.19943/

As you can see it''s a 1.38 and it was within your price range. I went with a designer platinum setting that put it just out side of your range, but had I chosen white gold it would have been right in your wheelhouse.

My ring happened to be Internally Flawless... but that was just a bonus. I was more than willing to go down to a VS1 to go up in size. But when I saw well the diamond rated on cut, saw the fact that J-color really is Near Colorless, and COMPARED the diamond to other diamonds, I knew that I wasn''t going to do any better.

Note: You can see a little yellow in the side view picture of my ring. **It does not look like that in real life** The ring looks absolutely colorless like the face-up pictures. The yellow color really came from the nature of the pic, (on it''s site with a pure white background and there is exterior color that is being picked up) as you can see, the platinum setting itself took on some color as well in that picture. As was stated earlier in this thread, the brilliance of the diamond really has a effect on how noticible color may be (well cut diamonds also look bigger because they have more ''presence'').

My advise... read everything in the Knowledge section of this site and read all of the information on Good Old Gold http://www.goodoldgold.com/4csmain.htm.
Click to expand...

Well this is just amazing!!! I would have never guessed that I could step down to a J. Not even close. Now you''ve got me considering THAT!!

Thanks for the info!!
 
Date: 10/28/2004 3:22:35 PM
Author: Patty
20.jpg


Isn''t this lovely?
Click to expand...

If you''re so inclined, please tell me what makes this "Lovely"? Not that I can''t tell it''s very pretty, it''s just that I don''t know if I wouldn''t think ANY stone I see is very pretty.

Thanks you.
 
the one you listed doesn''t look bad at all, although it doesn''t give girdle info and i can''t tell whether the diamond has a GIA (or any) cert. E color is great, obviously, and you''re not going to have any problems with the VS1. people generally say that you should look for a table a few % points smaller than the depth, but that''s just a general guideline and not a hard and fast rule. also, polish and symm on that stone are only "good", as opposed to "VG" or "EX", but again--not necessarily a dealbreaker with a fancy. might be worth a further look! also you''ll probably want to get crown height info from the vendor if you can.

something else to consider is that not all ovals are shaped the same way--some are shorter and fatter, while others are longer and skinnier. (the one you posted is more on the long and skinny side.) the oval cut grading chart has an "ideal" L to W ratio range, but it''s pretty broad and really just a guide. if you go to the gemappraisers site and click on the fancy shape selector (and then click on the oval) you can play around with different lenth to width ratios and get an idea of what you like. (also, to figure out the L to W ratio of a particular diamond you''re considering, you simply divide the length measurement by the width measurement.)

hope this helps.
 
CEP, if you read the tutorial, you''ll get a better sense that you can go down to a J, but ONLY if you get a great cut and with a round stone. I can''t vouch for ovals, but even the best oval doesn''t have the light return of the best RB, so it might not mask color as well.
 
Date: 10/28/2004 3:31:46 PM
Author: Christmas Eve Proposer


Date: 10/28/2004 3:22:35 PM
Author: Patty
20.jpg


Isn't this lovely?
Click to expand...

If you're so inclined, please tell me what makes this 'Lovely'? Not that I can't tell it's very pretty, it's just that I don't know if I wouldn't think ANY stone I see is very pretty.

Thanks you.
Click to expand...
Well, for one thing is as white as you're ever gonna get, since it's a D color. And being a VS2, it should be totally eye clean. But what makes me really get excited about it is the CUT. I don't know a lot about ovals, but look at the light this baby is putting out...wow!
 
Date: 10/28/2004 3:33:12 PM
Author: reena
the one you listed doesn''t look bad at all, although it doesn''t give girdle info and i can''t tell whether the diamond has a GIA (or any) cert. E color is great, obviously, and you''re not going to have any problems with the VS1. people generally say that you should look for a table a few % points smaller than the depth, but that''s just a general guideline and not a hard and fast rule. also, polish and symm on that stone are only ''good'', as opposed to ''VG'' or ''EX'', but again--not necessarily a dealbreaker with a fancy. might be worth a further look! also you''ll probably want to get crown height info from the vendor if you can.

something else to consider is that not all ovals are shaped the same way--some are shorter and fatter, while others are longer and skinnier. (the one you posted is more on the long and skinny side.) the oval cut grading chart has an ''ideal'' L to W ratio range, but it''s pretty broad and really just a guide. if you go to the gemappraisers site and click on the fancy shape selector (and then click on the oval) you can play around with different lenth to width ratios and get an idea of what you like. (also, to figure out the L to W ratio of a particular diamond you''re considering, you simply divide the length measurement by the width measurement.)

hope this helps.
Click to expand...

It certainly does!

Now tell me...Are the ones you listed "Better" than that one?

(I won''t hold you to anything, of course, I''ll just use yours as a way to look for others, rather than the one I found).

35.gif
 
hm, not necessarily. it''s really so tough to tell with fanices without seeing them in person. the only thing that i really prefer about the ones that i posted is that the table and depth numbers seem more promising in relationship to one another, but in reality this may not turn out to actually have any bearing on the beauty of the stone. i do question why the stone you posted is cheaper than the others, given the much higher color and the higher clarity. there is probably a reason, and cut could be it.
1.gif
but hey, maybe not!
 
Date: 10/28/2004 3:48:59 PM
Author: reena
hm, not necessarily. it''s really so tough to tell with fanices without seeing them in person. the only thing that i really prefer about the ones that i posted is that the table and depth numbers seem more promising in relationship to one another, but in reality this may not turn out to actually have any bearing on the beauty of the stone. i do question why the stone you posted is cheaper than the others, given the much higher color and the higher clarity. there is probably a reason, and cut could be it.
1.gif
but hey, maybe not!
Click to expand...

OK...Now the big question...

How do I find-out the answer to the Cut question? I assume either take the vendor''s word for it, and/or inspect it myself (Via an appraiser)??
 
CEP, i hate to sound like a giant broken record but if you go to the gemappraisers site, there is a chart that will tell you what the ideal cut parameters (table, depth, girdle, crown height, length to width ratio, etc.) are for an oval. that''s what i used to find the stones i posted; it''s a really good guide. then you can search for stones on the search engine here that meet those specs. that''s about the best you''re going to be able to do with the numbers; beyond that you can ask the vendor for pictures, a sarin report, a light return analysis, his own opinion, etc. then it''s a matter of seeing the best candidate in person to see if you like the way it looks.

remind me where you are located again?
 
Date: 10/28/2004 4:21
6.gif
2 PM
Author: reena
CEP, i hate to sound like a giant broken record but if you go to the gemappraisers site, there is a chart that will tell you what the ideal cut parameters (table, depth, girdle, crown height, length to width ratio, etc.) are for an oval. that's what i used to find the stones i posted; it's a really good guide. then you can search for stones on the search engine here that meet those specs. that's about the best you're going to be able to do with the numbers; beyond that you can ask the vendor for pictures, a sarin report, a light return analysis, his own opinion, etc. then it's a matter of seeing the best candidate in person to see if you like the way it looks.

remind me where you are located again?
Click to expand...

OK...This is going to be kind of hard to explain...

Now that you put it this way, I realize that I kind of already know what you're talking about. I've checked-into the "Table, Depth, Girdle, Crown, etc" thing already. And believe it or not, understand it (I need to use a cheatsheet to keep everything straight, but still). I just didn't realize all that constituted "Cut".

Duh!

I assumed "Cut" refered to only the different ways stones are "Shaped" (for lack of a better term). Meaning the angles on the top and side of the stone that are "Cut" into it.

I think this was another "I did't know Setting refered to the ring" thing...

19.gif
35.gif



I'm in Northern Indiana. Not far from Fort Wayne (That's where "She" lives and where it woudl be easiest for me to do business).
 
Date: 10/28/2004 4:31:48 PM
Author: Christmas Eve Proposer

Date: 10/28/2004 4:21
6.gif
2 PM
Author: reena
CEP, i hate to sound like a giant broken record but if you go to the gemappraisers site, there is a chart that will tell you what the ideal cut parameters (table, depth, girdle, crown height, length to width ratio, etc.) are for an oval. that''s what i used to find the stones i posted; it''s a really good guide. then you can search for stones on the search engine here that meet those specs. that''s about the best you''re going to be able to do with the numbers; beyond that you can ask the vendor for pictures, a sarin report, a light return analysis, his own opinion, etc. then it''s a matter of seeing the best candidate in person to see if you like the way it looks.

remind me where you are located again?
Click to expand...

OK...This is going to be kind of hard to explain...

Now that you put it this way, I realize that I kind of already know what you''re talking about. I''ve checked-into the ''Table, Depth, Girdle, Crown, etc'' thing already. And believe it or not, understand it (I need to use a cheatsheet to keep everything straight, but still). I just didn''t realize all that constituted ''Cut''.

Duh!

I assumed ''Cut'' refered to only the different ways stones are ''Shaped'' (for lack of a better term). Meaning the angles on the top and side of the stone that are ''Cut'' into it.

I think this was another ''I did''t know Setting refered to the ring'' thing...

19.gif
35.gif
Click to expand...

ah, i see. well, it''s understandable--this is a lot to absorb all at once. just take your time and hang out here a little bit and you''ll get the hang of it. (if it makes you feel any better, when i first started looking at diamonds--only in june!--i didn''t know what a table was and i didn''t even realize that two stones of the same carat weight could actually look different from one another in terms of size.) but anyway, "cut" refers to all of those things--table, depth, culet, symmetry, length to width ratio, crown and pavillion angles, etc.
emsmiled.gif
 
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