shallow crown?

[Kessar]

Hi,
I''m looking at the following GIA stone:
1.27 EVS1 GIA
Depth 58.6%
Table 57.6%
Crown 31.1
Pavillion 41.1
Culet 0.4%
Girdle Thin to Medium
Polish and Symmetry both VG
The price is about 9700, which seems a bit high?
Looking at it, the Crown seems a bit shallow with a pretty small angle and the serin report classifies it as an AGS 5.
Yet, when I plug the numbers into the HCA, I end up with a 0.9 and E/E/VG/E. Is this right? That seems like a bizarre outcome for what I''ve seen referred to as a bad crown angle.
The jeweler does not seem at all enthused about this stone. What do people think of this situation in general and this stone in particular?
Any advice would be appreciated.
Thanks and take care,
Kessar

 

[Mara]

That is a somewhat shallow crown angle, but the HCA results are telling you that it will score best with brilliance and fire...but not as great on scintillation. Shallower crown angle may mean more white light return, more brilliance in the stone, less dark spots creating the scintillation. Spread is also excellent, so your stone may look larger than it really is..slightly. View Rhino's GOG tutorial on the CUT and check out his area on scintillation and fire using the IdealScope and BrillianceScopr reports. It's pretty cool, shows you what to look for if you want the scintillation that is so hard to define.

HCA results are excellent, the pavilion is inline with where it should be...and the crown angle is not THAT shallow...you don't want to go under 30.

The price does seem a little high, I would estimate more around $8.5k or so for this stone? Did you price check on Pricescope?

If you like the stone in person and it really looks beautiful, the HCA score confirms what you feel...try to drive the price down..or if you don't feel comfortable with the AGS 5 or the high pricing, continue to look. In the end it is your final decision on your gut feel.

Good luck!

 

[Kessar]

Thanks for the reply Mara.
The AGS 5 doesn't really bother me. I guess my concern is more for the future that if we ever decide to trade up or something along those lines, whoever looks at the stone will devalue it because of its shallowness.
Just out of curiousity, where do you get your 8500 estimate?
I checked out pricescope prices, but wasn't sure what to compare them to. A 1A cut EVS1 between 1.0 and 1.49 has a average price per carat of 7200, thus giving a price for this stone of 9000, but if you look at available stones in this size range, the average seems a bit higher. So I am not really sure about pricing.
Any other thoughts?
Thanks and take care,
Kessar

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

k mara's advice is on the ball.
Combined shallow crown and slightly deep pavilion works well.
You might want to be a little careful with the girdle thickness if the stone is beign set in an exposed prong setting as shallower crown stones can be a risk for girdle chipping.

 

[Mara]

I just ran the search on Pricescope using your exact specs (E, VS1, around 1.20-1.30c, 57% table, 58% depth) and found this stone. Very similar. Note the pricing.

1.24 E VS1
Table: 57%
Depth: 58.1%
GIA
No Fluor
No Culet
VG Polish and Symm
7.09x7.12x4.13
Price: $8450

On the tradeup...if you tradeup with the same person you purchased from, many times you will get the value of what you PAID at the time. See if your jeweler offers this policy. Then keep your receipt for the future.

Hope this helps. Good luck!

 

[trichrome]

Here's my point of view. Gary H will disagree of course. HCA results are not
internationally recognized at the present time as a tool that precise to evaluate the
aesthetic of a diamond. However, it's fun to play with it a little bit. NOTHING (even certs)
will ever replace your own eyes. If you find the diamond brillant with your eyes, than
buy it. Remember also that all that Sarin stuff was not available a couple of years
ago. But guess what, everybody was able to recognize a diamond that was beautiful.
How come? well, just buy looking at it WITHOUT and WITH a loope... Remember also,
that for example, we can determine quite precisely the pavilion height just by
looking inside the table.. won't describe the method here.. it's not my point.


Trichrome.

 

[justme]

Kessar -
Please excuse the interuption of your post.

Trichrome,
Would you describe how you can determine quite precisely the pavilion height just by looking inside the table either here or in a new post. I think it would be useful information that most here don't know.

Thanks,
Justme

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Sorry you can not get the pavilion angle accurately.

The Liddicoat system does not work that well. It fails as table size, girdle and crown angle vary.