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Shallow crown, good IS image, should I go for it?

mdessouki

Rough_Rock
Joined
Aug 1, 2011
Messages
8
This stone is few thousand less that what a similar specked signature would be, but I'm not sure its worth the risk... Can anyone give me some insight? Thanks in advance.

1.5 carat, H, VS2, GIA EX, EX and EX
58% table
60.2% depth
32.5% crown
41.2% pav
HCA score<2.0

Picture 7.png

Picture 8.png
 

yssie

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Aug 14, 2009
Messages
21,109
mdessouki|1312257474|2982067 said:
This stone is few thousand less that what a similar specked signature would be, but I'm not sure its worth the risk... Can anyone give me some insight? Thanks in advance.

1.5 carat, H, VS2, GIA EX, EX and EX
58% table
60.2% depth
32.5% crown
41.2% pav
HCA score<2.0

Having had one with very similar proportions, I imagine it'll be much like mine - a really bright, white stone - tons of white light return, not much in the way of coloured light return in anything under direct spotlights.

How a diamond returns light depends hugely on what light there *is* to return - so in the spotlights under a jewellery store counter all diamonds will be disco balls of every colour, in diffuse white office lights all diamonds will show only white and the main course will be watching the facets in the stone go from light to dark and back again as the stone is moved. It's in the in-between types of lights that how the diamond is proportioned comes into play - some stones, those with shallower crowns and larger tables and longer lower girdle facets will err toward white light return, those with higher crowns, smaller tables, shorter lgf toward colour. Both types can certainly be considered "well cut", like this one here - which is "better" depends entirely on what you personally prefer to see.

The IS is a useful tool - in that it shows what light will be returned back up to your eyes, and what will escape out the back through the pavilion. It doesn't, however, break down what proportion of that light is white and what is coloured - it's just telling you about total overall brightness. The rest we can judge from the proportions and the pictures.
 

Karl_K

Super_Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Aug 4, 2008
Messages
10,451
John Pollard|1312304734|2982396 said:
Yssie provided a very nice overview.
I agree.
OT: Nice to see you posting again Sir John.
 

dreamer_dachsie

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Dec 16, 2007
Messages
24,364
I suspect that some of the nuances Yssie mentioned will not be apparent to most consumers, who are not familiar with the wide range os subtle variations in diamond cut. From the information you have given, I think most people would be happy with the stone!
 

John P

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
May 1, 2008
Messages
3,563
Dreamer_D|1312319865|2982562 said:
I suspect that some of the nuances Yssie mentioned will not be apparent to most consumers, who are not familiar with the wide range os subtle variations in diamond cut...
Maybe during a conventional sales presentation DD. But I've been pleasantly surprised at what average consumers detect when presented with a reasonable opportunity to make distinctions. Cut-perception varies in the same way color and clarity perceptions vary. Age and presbyopia also play a part, but I am referring to differences in consumer "cut palates" (for lack of a better term).

Using myself and wines as an example: One of my favorite Cab-Sauvs has been described with "aromas of ripe black cherries, red plums and spice with flavors of raspberry, red currant, orange peel, cocoa, ginger and hints of cherry-vanilla..." Now I can tease out most of those things from sip to finish, but I have to admit that my palate is not sensitive enough to discern every listed nuance. Nevertheless, they exist and others may indeed detect them. So for sake of thoroughness I'm a fan of seeing the complete list when I am shopping, even if the bar is a bit above my perception-grasp.

In that spirit I applaud Yssie for including the red currant and orange peel in the post above. ;-)
 

John P

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
May 1, 2008
Messages
3,563
Karl_K|1312318608|2982550 said:
John Pollard|1312304734|2982396 said:
Yssie provided a very nice overview.
I agree.
OT: Nice to see you posting again Sir John.
Thanks Karl. An insane travel schedule has kept me busy.
 

yssie

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Aug 14, 2009
Messages
21,109
John Pollard|1312332480|2982708 said:
Dreamer_D|1312319865|2982562 said:
I suspect that some of the nuances Yssie mentioned will not be apparent to most consumers, who are not familiar with the wide range os subtle variations in diamond cut...
Maybe during a conventional sales presentation DD. But I've been pleasantly surprised at what average consumers detect when presented with a reasonable opportunity to make distinctions. Cut-perception varies in the same way color and clarity perceptions vary. Age and presbyopia also play a part, but I am referring to differences in consumer "cut palates" (for lack of a better term).

Using myself and wines as an example: One of my favorite Cab-Sauvs has been described with "aromas of ripe black cherries, red plums and spice with flavors of raspberry, red currant, orange peel, cocoa, ginger and hints of cherry-vanilla..." Now I can tease out most of those things from sip to finish, but I have to admit that my palate is not sensitive enough to discern every listed nuance. Nevertheless, they exist and others may indeed detect them. So for sake of thoroughness I'm a fan of seeing the complete list when I am shopping, even if the bar is a bit above my perception-grasp.

In that spirit I applaud Yssie for including the red currant and orange peel in the post above. ;-)


John, your post made me laugh.

My husband and I went wine tasting a couple of weeks ago. We tasted blindly at eight wineries, and I blindly picked out the most expensive red as my favourite of the lineup - at all eight.

He was bemused and appalled. All were at least $100 over budget... and I had to bite my tongue not to giggle at some of the descriptions of these extravaganzas. White peach and watermelon? Cherries, toast, dark chocolate? Chewy? I don't think I've ever seen a white peach, let alone tasted one!
I have a more practical metric: A) could I fumigate a room with it, B) is it nicely mellow or astringent enough to burn, C) will I smell like an alcoholic after a glass or two?

Fortunately my eyes have more - finesse, and I confess to having rather more patience with them ::)
 

Karl_K

Super_Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Aug 4, 2008
Messages
10,451
Dreamer_D|1312319865|2982562 said:
I suspect that some of the nuances Yssie mentioned will not be apparent to most consumers,
Maybe not at a glance or with limited viewing under bright lighting.
However send them home with them for a day or 2 and have them view them under a lot of lighting and the majority in my opinion would see a difference and have a preference.
 

Cehrabehra

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jun 29, 2006
Messages
11,071
Karl_K|1312318608|2982550 said:
John Pollard|1312304734|2982396 said:
Yssie provided a very nice overview.
I agree.
OT: Nice to see you posting again Sir John.
I agree too - I agree with John that Yssie did an awesome job and I agree with Karl - nice to see you John :)
 

Cehrabehra

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jun 29, 2006
Messages
11,071
John Pollard|1312332480|2982708 said:
Dreamer_D|1312319865|2982562 said:
I suspect that some of the nuances Yssie mentioned will not be apparent to most consumers, who are not familiar with the wide range os subtle variations in diamond cut...
Maybe during a conventional sales presentation DD. But I've been pleasantly surprised at what average consumers detect when presented with a reasonable opportunity to make distinctions. Cut-perception varies in the same way color and clarity perceptions vary. Age and presbyopia also play a part, but I am referring to differences in consumer "cut palates" (for lack of a better term).

Using myself and wines as an example: One of my favorite Cab-Sauvs has been described with "aromas of ripe black cherries, red plums and spice with flavors of raspberry, red currant, orange peel, cocoa, ginger and hints of cherry-vanilla..." Now I can tease out most of those things from sip to finish, but I have to admit that my palate is not sensitive enough to discern every listed nuance. Nevertheless, they exist and others may indeed detect them. So for sake of thoroughness I'm a fan of seeing the complete list when I am shopping, even if the bar is a bit above my perception-grasp.

In that spirit I applaud Yssie for including the red currant and orange peel in the post above. ;-)
I agree John - I mean, this is all a part of the learning process in becoming well educated on the types of diamond performance. This diamond may be as yssie described and be at one end of the "spectrum" and that leaves an entirely opposite end that the op should be aware of. Not that one is better than another, but before you buy is the opportunity you have to figure out what you want before you commit to it. Some people really favor white light. I've met a few, and it was THE popular choice back in the day... my diamond is the opposite, it's not very brilliant but is extremely colorful. Most choose something in between but there really isn't a wrong answer if you're in love with the stone.

And on the wine thing, a funny from sara story - my aunt and her children are all very involved in Napa wines... cousin is a master chemist, his sister married to one, aunt's boyfriend makes wines in his spare time - they always bring thousands of dollars worth of wine to family events and force me to try stuff. I don't like wine. I like the idea of wine. I like the glasses and the thought of analyzing it (but prefer chocolate tasting lol) I did find I like reisling better than others so there is that but that's not my funny... my funny is that after insisting I do not like wine, they had me at the table surrounded and forced me to try my aunt's boyfriend's wine. As I am bringing the glass to my lips they stop me and tell me to really let the flavor explode in my mouth. I take a sip and they immediately say, "Okay, don't think - just describe it" and I blurt out, "Sour dirt". Hehe... okay so I was embarrassed but seriously - they deserved that lol who can find a white peach or current in all of that sour dirt flavor! Don't get me started on "oaky" :knockout:
 
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