Shakeout in LGD Industry - Natural Price Increases Next?

[oncrutchesrightnow]

Re the meta-discussion — Everybody makes good points. I don’t run the place but FWIW and IMHO, PS’s major strengths are (1) friendly people (and sometimes bots but that’s life); (2) a giant, regularly user-updated stash of bling photos; and (3) a means for consumers to ask for advice with some safeguards against excessive bias. So maybe have, in visual order, (1) an anything-goes SMTB forum with photo previews (tags are a good compromise, if they are easy to add by a checkmark); (2) an anything-goes General Advice forum; and (3) all the little specialty forums. A visitor might think “Anything-Goes Show Me the Bling” means “post your pretty jewelry here;” “General Advice” means “ask whatever question you had that probably drove you to PS;” and all those other forums mean “post more about the topic listed in the forum title.” People who love SMTB but want to avoid certain images can sort by tag. So can people who are specifically looking for certain images.

 

[oncrutchesrightnow]

Re the title topic —

I doubt it, in fact, it may result in a likely increase of custom design threads because there is now access to material. Lab is gaining in prominence and popularity.

Agree — custom setting designs and made-to-order diamond cuts and colors would be fun posts to read and write. Jewelry pieces and stones that require high levels of craftsmanship might become the new luxury items in jewelry.

Demand for LGD jewelry will sky rocket as the cost per carat and the crazy retail margins plummet.
People in India are saying there is oversupply as there are now many thousands of CVD reactors there - but when we see $200-$300 per carat for any size diamond - just watch the people in the street decked out like Christmas trees!

Hope you are right. There could be a luxury market for “impossibly well-cut diamonds made-to-order out of premium LGD material in a factory run by well-treated workers with pure renewable unicorn energy.” And there could be a costume jewelry market for wedding tiaras and diamond socks.

It will be glorious for those who want to shine! I know the LGD thread here is hopping and I don't see it slowing down anytime soon. I also know that they wouldn't consider it costume as it's the new hot commodity for engagement rings, how could it be? It's a diamond.

Maybe the term “costume” will come to be associated with skill-level instead of material. Thereby ending the Silver Wars.

 

[Rockdiamond]

Not everyone would agree with that. As a collector of crystals and minerals, I do see a clear distinction between earth-mined natural stones and those that are man-made.

Of course- we'll never all agree on ....anything
But I think part of the issue is that the vast majority of buyers- as opposed to readers of this forum will choose based on personal ideas/thoughts, etc.
As Rappaport keeps reminding us, "only a natural diamond signifies love."
Except we all choose what to love and how to love it.
It seems to me that the sort of thinking Rap's exhibiting will only hurt natural diamond demand.

Demand for LGD jewelry will sky rocket as the cost per carat and the crazy retail margins plummet.

THat horse left the barn a long time ago.
Prices of LG melee aren't going to drop past where they are now......The demand of tennis bracelets set with I-J SI2 naturals are never going to regain their desirability when compared with LG D-F VS at a fraction the price.

 

[Texas Leaguer]

I doubt it, in fact, it may result in a likely increase of custom design threads because there is now access to material. Lab is gaining in prominence and popularity.

We are seeing a trend like this in our business. Shoppers are saving so much on their feature stone by going lab that they can afford high-end designer styles to set them in.

Lab diamonds, because of their affordability, may be ushering in a new era for artistic design and moving us away from the simple solitaire.

 

[MissGotRocks]

Of course- we'll never all agree on ....anything
But I think part of the issue is that the vast majority of buyers- as opposed to readers of this forum will choose based on personal ideas/thoughts, etc.
As Rappaport keeps reminding us, "only a natural diamond signifies love."
Except we all choose what to love and how to love it.
It seems to me that the sort of thinking Rap's exhibiting will only hurt natural diamond demand.



THat horse left the barn a long time ago.
Prices of LG melee aren't going to drop past where they are now......The demand of tennis bracelets set with I-J SI2 naturals are never going to regain their desirability when compared with LG D-F VS at a fraction the price.

Value is not only found in dollars. I think those of us in the natural camp will always be there. Not because we romanticize diamonds, but because we find other characteristics of them preferable. On a dollar cost basis that doesn’t make sense, so obviously there are other considerations than lead us to naturals. The market will be what it will be, and I doubt our preferences will have much impact on it. While I would not be happy with an I-J, SI2 tennis bracelet, that doesn’t mean that I don’t have any other option other than a LGD bracelet. You have to pay for your pleasures and if a natural is the only thing that scratches the itch, so be it.
Much of the attitude toward both choices depend on the age and life stage of the buyer as well. I think the natural market has cancelled itself out of pieces that some here would choose if they were more reasonable or plentiful and that seems consistently overlooked. However, I am not on the front line of business decisions so my opinions are just that - opinions.
I think buyers of both can co-exist here in harmony as we have been since labs became popular. I still think for information purposes it is only fair to distinguish between the two. I sense that part of the driver of merging is to keep this forum alive and thriving. While I certainly want that as well, I think that remaining transparent, relative and honest will mean something to the folks that come here looking for information and assistance. I once was that person too so I speak from experience.

 

[ItsMainelyYou]

According to the FTC they can't be called Diamonds or Stones - you need use a modifier.... Imitation, Simulated or the more marketable sounding Lab Grown...

They already do, they call them lab grown diamond or LGD. Which is what they are. They can certainly be called diamonds with the laboratory distinction.

They have ruled that LGD are real diamonds.

https://www.familyjewelers.com/blog/2022/Jan/09/ftc-rules-lab-diamonds-are-real-diamonds/#:~:text=The%20FTC%20still%20holds%20that,natural%20diamond%2C”%20Yood%20said.

3. The word “natural” has been removed from the FTC’s official definition of a diamond.

The FTC originally defined a diamond as “a natural mineral consisting essentially of pure carbon crystallized in the isometric system.”

The Diamond Foundry advocated for the removal of the word “natural” and the FTC agreed, writing: “When the commission first used this definition in 1956, there was only one type of diamond product on the market—natural stones mined from the earth. Since then, technological advances have made it possible to create diamonds in a laboratory. These stones have essentially the same optical, physical, and chemical properties as mined diamonds. Thus, they are diamonds.”

Yood, however, said this is not as consequential as it may seem. The FTC is essentially saying that because the definition precedes the diamond section of the guides, and since diamonds are no longer just mined, it is removing “natural” so that the guidelines that follow apply to all diamonds, whether natural or man-made.

The FTC still holds that the terms real, genuine, natural and precious cannot be used for lab-grown stones.

“So if you are using the word ‘diamond’ unqualified, you are still talking about a natural diamond,” Yood said.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Folks there is no thought or discussion that Rocky Talky and LGD forums will be merged!
I am interested to hear if we should change the name RockyTalky to Natural Diamonds though?
Show Me The Bling - very open to allowing other jewelry products that were previously banned to be shown and shared!

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

oncrutchesrightnow how do you see the reddit photo method working?​

 

[MissGotRocks]

Folks there is no thought or discussion that Rocky Talky and LGD forums will be merged!
I am interested to hear if we should change the name RockyTalky to Natural Diamonds though?
Show Me The Bling - very open to allowing other jewelry products that were previously banned to be shown and shared!

I was never under the impression that Rocky Talk was limited to diamonds only. There were other types of jewelry discussed there as well.
If SMTB is open to both naturals and LGD, still think they should be identified as what they are for informational purposes.
My bigger question is what the purpose of the changes would be? What would happen to the LGD forum? It would remain LGD and RT would be for natural diamonds? Where would other jewelry items be discussed?
I hope others will chime in with their thoughts. I think before changes are made, a clear vision of what is trying to be accomplished is established.

 

[Heathcat24]

I was never under the impression that Rocky Talk was limited to diamonds only. There were other types of jewelry discussed there as well.
If SMTB is open to both naturals and LGD, still think they should be identified as what they are for informational purposes.
My bigger question is what the purpose of the changes would be? What would happen to the LGD forum? It would remain LGD and RT would be for natural diamonds? Where would other jewelry items be discussed?
I hope others will chime in with their thoughts. I think before changes are made, a clear vision of what is trying to be accomplished is established.

I do not like the idea of a "merged" SMTB at all. I don't want to search through pages of all sorts of other things to see the natural stones and pieces that people have made with them. I really don't want them all mixed together.

Maybe, though, the market and the vendors here AND this forum, in general, are ready to move on altogether from people like me, who prefer natural diamonds and stones. It certainly feels that way. You can't please everybody, and I know that. But I really was hoping that there would still be a "space" for us here. Maybe not.

We've lost a lot of traffic and a lot of long time posters in RockyTalky in the last few years. I don't believe it is because they love jewelry any less. I also don't believe they're not buying things. I believe it is because they don't feel as comfortable or welcome posting here. And I believe we would lose many more with these proposed changes.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

For the record here are the current rules.
We are doing a Forum upgrade in a few days.
I am going to start a new thread - but here are the current rules.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

I do not like the idea of a "merged" SMTB at all. I don't want to search through pages of all sorts of other things to see the natural stones and pieces that people have made with them. I really don't want them all mixed together.

Maybe, though, the market and the vendors here AND this forum, in general, are ready to move on altogether from people like me, who prefer natural diamonds and stones. It certainly feels that way. You can't please everybody, and I know that. But I really was hoping that there would still be a "space" for us here. Maybe not.

We've lost a lot of traffic and a lot of long time posters in RockyTalky in the last few years. I don't believe it is because they love jewelry any less. I also don't believe they're not buying things. I believe it is because they don't feel as comfortable or welcome posting here. And I believe we would lose many more with these proposed changes.

I made a new thread in RockyTalky Heathcat. Please post you point of view there.
We have been asleep and lost traffic, but we getting engaged again and we have pretty good search results, so we are good to grow again.

 

[MissGotRocks]

I do not like the idea of a "merged" SMTB at all. I don't want to search through pages of all sorts of other things to see the natural stones and pieces that people have made with them. I really don't want them all mixed together.

Maybe, though, the market and the vendors here AND this forum, in general, are ready to move on altogether from people like me, who prefer natural diamonds and stones. It certainly feels that way. You can't please everybody, and I know that. But I really was hoping that there would still be a "space" for us here. Maybe not.

We've lost a lot of traffic and a lot of long time posters in RockyTalky in the last few years. I don't believe it is because they love jewelry any less. I also don't believe they're not buying things. I believe it is because they don't feel as comfortable or welcome posting here. And I believe we would lose many more with these proposed changes.

Posters and vendors on PS built this forum on natural diamonds. While I realize the market has changed and labs are on the upswing, it would be a mistake to marginalize natural diamond lovers here. The trends of today may not always be the trends of tomorrow. Cleary, there have been many posters here of yesteryear that just simply forego posting here any longer. Would be interesting to know why that has happened so that history doesn't repeat itself. Natural diamond buyers brought the vendors and the forum to where they are today and their unwillingness to stay the course should be of concern - particularly if the focus is to keep PS up and vibrant. Just something to keep in mind as opinions are asked for even though it sounds as if decisions of change are already made. I wish PS all the best moving forward!

 

[tyty333]

Going to be honest here...looking at a 5 carat LCD in a simple solitaire doesn't give me the same "feels" as a natural 3 carat Earth
mined diamond in a simple solitaire. While they may look similar (except size) they're just not the same in my mind...something
that the Earth took millions of years (in an uncontrolled environment) to create versus something created in a controlled lab (over
months?) I guess I appreciate diamonds for more than just their beauty. I am older so maybe this is just a "me" thing.

BTW...Am I happy for the LGD owner who loves their new ring...yes! Yes, I am!

 

[purplesilk]

Please forgive me in advance for I'm not English mother tongue and my thoughts could be a bit contorted due to translation.

IMO the slowing down traffic on PS is due to both generation change and generational gap:
- young people prefer to spend their money on travelling, I Phones, tattoos, nailart and beauty treatments, plastic surgery, brand clothes and bags, cars;
- regarding jewellery young people buy either fast fashion jewellery such Pandora/Swarovsky or trendy signed pieces (for example Cartier Just en clou ring or Love ring, as suggested by influencers on IG, Tik Tok);
- young people celebrate special events with tattoos instead of buying precious jewellery;
- diamonds, no brand jewels, engagement rings are a matter of interest for "diversely young" people (above 50/60 yo);
- "diversely young" people buy only two/three staples pieces (typically an upgraded engagement ring, studs and necklace or bracelet) and then they stop because the budget is over;
- it takes a lot of time and effort to be active/useful on PS: some "extraordinary gentle" old members accept to post links on planned times to give help-seeking-members the chance to get the recommended diamonds (lurkers are always around and they're very fast when it comes to buy suggested stones);
- most of the new PSers are not interested in knowledge and they don't take their time to read old posts: they want "experts" to tell them what's the best pick for their budget...they don't even take the time to come back with post-purchase pictures and to thank people who help them;
- some old members got fed up by aswering the same questions over and over again: many new members don't take the time to read old posts and get themselves educated as they want fast and brief answers because they're not interested in real knowledge;
- PS was created 20 (maybe more) years ago to fulfill the need of information/knowledge/community between diamond lovers and vendors; nowdays the net is overloaded by articles/pictures/news about diamonds and both consumers and vendors prefer IG and Tik Tok to traditional forum.

 

[purplesilk]

I like PS as it is now: putting together earth mined diamonds and lab grown diamonds is a no-no for me because it will surely generate confusion on members.
I think lab grown diamonds will follow the synthetic colored stones history: big interest and sudden success when the tecnology improves & the prices are cheap, but on the long road (5 to 10 years I guess) lab grown will be mounted only on cheap fast fashion jewellery and earth mined diamonds will regain their desirability and their market.

 

[Dreamer_D]

The way people use social media has changed over the years, too. I’m not sure there is a way to “go back”.

 

[maryjane04]

I agree with others that there needs to be a distinction between natural vs lab grown.

I would propose the following threads:

• smtb - natural/earth mined
• smtb - lab created
• coloured stones
• lab coloured stones
• pearls
• fashion jewellery
• antique and vintage jewellery
• jewellery pieces (define fine and semi fine - could be two separate categories)
• watches

For me as a PS member I'm interested in smtb and rocktalky which not only is it about selecting diamonds but it's a place to discuss settings/mounts and design ideas. I understand that this could be too many different forums but at least the audience is clear.

I actually agree with @purplesilk that a lot of new members come to search for the perfect lgd and then leave. I don't have an answer to how to make it more engaging than what it already is at the moment. Some people just don't want to hang around I guess.

 

[MissGotRocks]

Social media had a great impact on thinning the members as well. Splinter groups split off for discussions and sharing on their own. Just another cog in the wheel for decrease in traffic but one that can’t be controlled either.

 

[MissGotRocks]

Going to be honest here...looking at a 5 carat LCD in a simple solitaire doesn't give me the same "feels" as a natural 3 carat Earth
mined diamond in a simple solitaire. While they may look similar (except size) they're just not the same in my mind...something
that the Earth took millions of years (in an uncontrolled environment) to create versus something created in a controlled lab (over
months?) I guess I appreciate diamonds for more than just their beauty. I am older so maybe this is just a "me" thing.

BTW...Am I happy for the LGD owner who loves their new ring...yes! Yes, I am!

I so agree with this. Loving natural diamonds does not mean that we hate on those that love LGD. If they are happy with their choice, that’s all that matters and I am happy for them as well. Jewelry is and has always been about personal choices - what some love, others do not and vice versa. Thinking that they should be differentiated does not mean that they should be overlooked or discounted by a diamond forum or its members. As I have said many times before, we should all be able to co-exist in harmony here and I think we have done that in large part.

 

[nala]

We are seeing a trend like this in our business. Shoppers are saving so much on their feature stone by going lab that they can afford high-end designer styles to set them in.

Lab diamonds, because of their affordability, may be ushering in a new era for artistic design and moving us away from the simple solitaire.

Weren’t people already doing this with cubic zirconias or moissanites? Syntethic gemstones a century ago?

 

[MissGotRocks]

Weren’t people already doing this with cubic zirconias or moissanites? Syntethic gemstones a century ago?

This topic reminds me of Dancing Fire. He always said put your money into the diamond and not the setting. Now some folks are putting a less expensive diamond into an expensive setting. Wonder what he would have to say about that! lol!

 

[purplesilk]

Please forgive me in advance for I'm not English mother tongue and my thoughts could be a bit contorted due to translation.

IMO the slowing down traffic on PS is due to both generation change and generational gap:
- young people prefer to spend their money on travelling, I Phones, tattoos, nailart and beauty treatments, plastic surgery, brand clothes and bags, cars;
- regarding jewellery young people buy either fast fashion jewellery such Pandora/Swarovsky or trendy signed pieces (for example Cartier Just en clou ring or Love ring, as suggested by influencers on IG, Tik Tok);
- young people celebrate special events with tattoos instead of buying precious jewellery;
- diamonds, no brand jewels, engagement rings are a matter of interest for "diversely young" people (above 50/60 yo);
- "diversely young" people buy only two/three staples pieces (typically an upgraded engagement ring, studs and necklace or bracelet) and then they stop because the budget is over;
- it takes a lot of time and effort to be active/useful on PS: some "extraordinary gentle" old members accept to post links on planned times to give help-seeking-members the chance to get the recommended diamonds (lurkers are always around and they're very fast when it comes to buy suggested stones);
- most of the new PSers are not interested in knowledge and they don't take their time to read old posts: they want "experts" to tell them what's the best pick for their budget...they don't even take the time to come back with post-purchase pictures and to thank people who help them;
- some old members got fed up by aswering the same questions over and over again: many new members don't take the time to read old posts and get themselves educated as they want fast and brief answers because they're not interested in real knowledge;
- PS was created 20 (maybe more) years ago to fulfill the need of information/knowledge/community between diamond lovers and vendors; nowdays the net is overloaded by articles/pictures/news about diamonds and both consumers and vendors prefer IG and Tik Tok to traditional forum.

Errata : "diversely"
Corrige: "differently"
I meant to say: " differently young" people (instead of old people)

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Hey folks, for the record - Natural diamonds will always be separated from LGD.
On the other thread linked below - it is clear that a separation between Natural and LGD jewelry would be popular.
We will need to come up with clear names. Please discuss on the other thread linked below.
People on the new post have mentioned tags. Not sure how that can work? Especially because Ella is going to have a load of extra work sorting out untagged and miss tagged.
OnCrutches and others have asked about a Reddit type image to indicate what the post is about. I have asked the Dev if it is possible - we are bound to this platform, however with an upgrade about to happen - maybe its there?

Should we change some Forum names and rules?

This has been carried over from the thread on LGD https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/shakeout-in-lgd-industry-natural-price-increases-next.284326/page-3#post-5359420 Questions include 1. Should RockyTalky be changed to: Natural Diamonds Natural Diamonds & Jewelry 2. The rules for SMTB...

www.pricescope.com

 

[AllAboardTheBlingTrain]

Hey folks, for the record - Natural diamonds will always be separated from LGD.
On the other thread linked below - it is clear that a separation between Natural and LGD jewelry would be popular.
We will need to come up with clear names. Please discuss on the other thread linked below.
People on the new post have mentioned tags. Not sure how that can work? Especially because Ella is going to have a load of extra work sorting out untagged and miss tagged.
OnCrutches and others have asked about a Reddit type image to indicate what the post is about. I have asked the Dev if it is possible - we are bound to this platform, however with an upgrade about to happen - maybe its there?

Should we change some Forum names and rules?

This has been carried over from the thread on LGD https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/shakeout-in-lgd-industry-natural-price-increases-next.284326/page-3#post-5359420 Questions include 1. Should RockyTalky be changed to: Natural Diamonds Natural Diamonds & Jewelry 2. The rules for SMTB...

www.pricescope.com

One of the simplest ways to ensure that posts don’t remain untagged is to not allow people to proceed to post without adding a tag first.

Mistagging however is something that would have to be sorted out with moderator approval though, so it will increase Ella’s workload unfortunately.

 

[Texas Leaguer]

Errata : "diversely"
Corrige: "differently"
I meant to say: " differently young" people (instead of old people)

@purplesilk ,
There is a great deal of insight in your analysis. While there are other factors at play in the competition between different forums and platforms, online consumer behavior has clearly evolved over time.

What pricescope has that others don't is an appreciation of the value of prosumers willing to devote time and effort to help others. Perhaps that attracts the visitors who are sincerely interested in acquiring knowlege and a deeper understanding. And some of those folks do stick around to help others, or at least to express gratitude for the help they recieved! I hope that will never change.

While pricescope too has always been a vehicle for people to pop in, get recommendations for their purchase, and go away never to be heard from again, more have stuck around to help others than on other forums. That is meaningful and valuable.

I have also noticed your observation that folks on other forums do not search for older threads that might answer their questions. They are much more inclined to just post to get a quick answer or recommendation. Acquiring deeper knowlege does not seem to be the goal of folks using other forums.

I think it is important for pricescope admins to understand this unique distinction and to build on it as a core value. There will always be people attracted to a site that offers something important that they cannot get elsewhere.