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Sending it Back to AGS...

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KeepItSecret

Rough_Rock
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I recently purchased a princess cut diamond that is an AGS Ideal that I still am questioning the color.

When I look at the stone from the top it faces up very white but when I look at it from the side sometimes I feel as though it may have a slight yellow hue. I know the labs base color on the diamond upside down against a white background but do they grade it looking straight down to the table OR do they grade it on views from side angles.

If I feel that it may be given a soft grading for a G and was interested in having it regraded is their a cost to me? If so, approximately how much?

Maybe I am just over analyzing things but I just want to have the perfect ring come together.

Also if the diamond is loose and I don''t want to fingerprint it up what is the best way to handle it?
 
I believe AGS does not take stones from members of the public ("laypersons.")

You'd have to send it back through an AGS appraiser or jeweler, I think.
 
Date: 8/30/2008 10:33:52 PM
Author:KeepItSecret

When I look at the stone from the top it faces up very white but when I look at it from the side sometimes I feel as though it may have a slight yellow hue. I know the labs base color on the diamond upside down against a white background but do they grade it looking straight down to the table OR do they grade it on views from side angles.
Click to expand...

They grade it looking through the pavilion at a 45 degree angle with the diamond face down on a white background under color corrected lighting next to known diamond master comparison stones.


Date: 8/30/2008 10:33:52 PM
Author:KeepItSecret

If I feel that it may be given a soft grading for a G and was interested in having it regraded is their a cost to me? If so, approximately how much?
Click to expand...

Depends on the carat weight. How much does your stone weigh?


Date: 8/30/2008 10:33:52 PM
Author:KeepItSecret

Also if the diamond is loose and I don''t want to fingerprint it up what is the best way to handle it?
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Wiping it off with a lint free paper towel or eyeglass cleaner cloths will work fine.

You might consider having an independent appraiser color grade the diamond. The AGS will only tell you if they think their original color grading was right or wrong, assigning it a single color grade again.

An independent appraiser with the right equipment could give you his opinion as to whether your stone is a "high" grade, "mid" grade or "low" grade color. This will give you a better feel for the diamond.

You''ll need an appraisal for insurance purposes any way, so the case could be made that an independent appraisal would be the most informative and cost effective course of action to take.

The chances are very slim that the AGS will change their original opinion on the diamond.
 
Could be you're just color sensitive. Though a G is very white, it isn't super, super colorless. Have you compared it to other AGS ideal G princess cuts? It'd probably be easier to take to an appraiser or check out similar stones in person to get an idea of whether or not you think it really is a G.

Also I guess you need to decide if seeing a hint of color bothers you... just because you think you might see it from certain angles, doesn't necessarily make it "bad". Though whiter stones are rarer and more expensive, they aren't actually sparklier or more beautiful than stones with a hint of tint, or even a noticeable body color. It's just one of those things you need to decide for yourself what you like, can afford, and actually see day-to-day while wearing.

Oh, and I wouldn't worry about handling it. You can get it all grubby and finger-oily (and probably should, just to see what it looks like, because it WILL get that way sometimes when wearing it) and wipe it off easily. Just tissue is OK to clean or a soft cloth... if it is not enough to degrease it, plug the sink up, shut the toilet lid, and gingerly wash it with shampoo or a degreasing dish detergent.
 
If G was D then there would be no G or no D - or there would be an ''O'' in the middle
 
I would like to ask, how do you plan on setting this stone?
As you mentioned, it does look very white from the top.
Unless you are planning on having a tension set or something else with an open gallery, you won''t really see the side view once its set..
As to judging the colour, I agree taking it to an appraiser will give you more info and will be money better spent.
 
AGSL doesn’t publicly publish their fee structure and only accepts work from jewelers. The fees go up with size but you can expect the range to be from about $100 to $400 for most stones depending on the shipping requirements. If it needs to be taken out of the mounting to be submitted and reset later, the jeweler will be charging for this as well.

As Richard points out, it’s uncommon for the lab to change the grading on a stone that they’ve already seen but everybody makes mistakes from time to time and it’s not completely out of the question. This is really the sort of thing you should deal with BEFORE you buy it and it’s the problem of the dealer who sold it to you. If you feel it’s been inaccurately graded, that’s who you should be talking to. If it needs to go back to the lab for a recheck, they are who should be doing it.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver
 
What a beautiful ring.

One thing I should mention is that diamonds almost always look whiter once they''re mounted. And bigger too.

How it looks face up is what counts. You''ll probably never notice any side color once it''s mounted.

G is a very nice body color. If you like the diamond, don''t stress about it. You''ll be fine. You''re just in the super analytical stage right. Like inspecting a brand new car for any minute scratches, when a year from now you won''t even notice the dozen you''ve picked up.
 
What Rich said. And, I am assuming you are the guy? If so, your girlfriend may very well not even see what it is you think you "may" be seeing.
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Better than getting a lab to regrade it, do what I did and send it to Richard for appraisal and he can run it through his spectrophotometer and give you a true machine grade! :)
 
Richard- I left you a voicemail on your cell phone number listed on your website. If you could please give me a call back when you get my message it would be greatly appreciated.

Ellen- I know she may notice what I may see but I''m just trying to make it the perfect ring without going over budget. Normally when I had seen G''s in B&M stores they didn''t appear with a yellow hue but for some reason when I put this loose stone on a white sheet of paper I feel as though I see color when the diamond is face down and viewed from an angle. It''s bright white from a direct view downwards though. Maybe I''m just going crazy like Richard said though.
 
Yeah, you''re going crazy.

I''d be happy to appraise it for you though. Knowledge and peace of mind is always worth its weight in gold.

I''ll call you back tomorrow.
 
Date: 8/31/2008 1:51:16 PM
Author: KeepItSecret
Richard- I left you a voicemail on your cell phone number listed on your website. If you could please give me a call back when you get my message it would be greatly appreciated.

Ellen- I know she may notice what I may see but I''m just trying to make it the perfect ring without going over budget. Normally when I had seen G''s in B&M stores they didn''t appear with a yellow hue but for some reason when I put this loose stone on a white sheet of paper I feel as though I see color when the diamond is face down and viewed from an angle. It''s bright white from a direct view downwards though. Maybe I''m just going crazy like Richard said though.
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But, is she going to be wearing it that way?
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Just teasing (sorta). I understand that you want to get this right, and no one will fault you for that.
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Let us know how everything turns out.
 
Can you send it to GIA or would sending them a AGS graded stone be a conflict of interest.
 
I couldn''t be convinced that this stone was a G color grading anymore so after countless talks with the vendor and them trying to locate a new stone I took it to a Gem Lab to have it color graded. On the colormeter it came up as an "I" which I know can be off for fancy shapes. But when she pulled out GIA master real diamond stones it was like night and day. My heart dropped as my assumption was proven correct. The diamond had a much yellower hue from when placed upside down.

The search will begin all over again as it will be sent back tomorrow.
 
Are you saying you were sold a diamond with an AGS report as a G that has been appraised as an I?

Just curious was this a Pricescope vendor? If the color difference was as obvious as you say, it''s sort of curious that the seller didn''t notice the discrepancy.

Good luck on the search for another diamond.
21.gif
 
PP, it"s happened before.
There's one stone that comes to mind... think it was Harriets?
AGS said it was an I.
Local apprasier said K.
2nd Appraiser said J.

Vendor thought it was a low I (from what I remember).

But I am curious as to what KeepItSecrets appraiser said.
 
Date: 9/25/2008 12:14:59 PM
Author: elle_chris
PP, it''s happened before.
There''s one stone that comes to mind... think it was Harriets?
AGS said it was an I.
Local apprasier said K.
2nd Appraiser said J.

Vendor thought it was a low I (from what I remember).

But I am curious as to what KeepItSecrets appraiser said.
Click to expand...
It''s surprising to hear that AGS can have such a vast discrepency on the color grading of its stones. I know that EGL Israel always gets slammed on PS for being as many as two color grades off, and people always recommend to avoid EGL and go with GIA or AGS for "mind clean" stones when it comes to color. Now, I would not be any more comfortable trusting AGS with the color grade than I would EGL, if we''re seeing several stones that have gotten graded 2 grades off with the color appraisal.

I guess I don''t feel so bad having saved some $ with EGL now! :)
 
It is most unusual that someone would want a lab to downgrade the color of a diamond. Nothing the lab says will change the way it looks and hopefully people buy diamonds based on their looks and not on letters printed on a sheet of paper. I know it is a combination of these two things, but the eyes rule, not the paperwork when it comes to selecting what one likes and what one decides to buy.

Fancy shape stones are not only graded from the side view as rounds are, but also consideration is given to their face-up view, too. The concentration of color can be different in fancy cuts in so many ways that no one can predict. Obtaining a lower color grade on a report will not change the appearance and will lower the value. What reason would you seek this as a solution?
 
Sorry you went through that. It''s good that you were color sensitive enough to noitce and get your money back.
 
Date: 9/25/2008 2:24:44 PM
Author: oldminer
It is most unusual that someone would want a lab to downgrade the color of a diamond. Nothing the lab says will change the way it looks and hopefully people buy diamonds based on their looks and not on letters printed on a sheet of paper. I know it is a combination of these two things, but the eyes rule, not the paperwork when it comes to selecting what one likes and what one decides to buy.

Fancy shape stones are not only graded from the side view as rounds are, but also consideration is given to their face-up view, too. The concentration of color can be different in fancy cuts in so many ways that no one can predict. Obtaining a lower color grade on a report will not change the appearance and will lower the value. What reason would you seek this as a solution?
Click to expand...
I think you got confused?

They paid for a G, and AGS said it was G.

The appraiser says it''s an I. So if you paid for a G, you wouldn''t want I color (if in fact the appraiser is correct in his comparison with the master set). If I was getting I color, I''d want the I price.
 
KIS, so what do you suspect here - that the stone does not match the cert or that the cert does go with this stone but it was misgraded/generously graded by AGS? Good to know that you were not crazy in the eyes, and may your return transaction/new search be a happy one.

vespergirl, i don''t know that two examples of possible misgrades dug up on pricescope without proper sampling are enough to say AGS = EGL-Israel? Someone on another thread made the point that any lab can misgrade, and that is true enough, but how frequently they misgrade is important as well as what grading standard they use. In other words, lab X might be extremely consistent in what they call an F, but Lab X''s standard for an F is what lab Y would call a G. Thus Lab''s Y''s stones are priced at a premium over Lab X''s, ignoring any issues of "grading errors" or consistency problems within a given lab.
 
I am not understanding your last comment Wink because we as consumers trust the documentation the online vendors post as our first initial eyes when selecting a diamond off a website. Not one vendor posts side shots of a diamond so until it is in our hands we go by numbers and few visuals. G to I or Even G to H is a price difference in the wrong direction.

The girdle was inscribed with the AGS number and it matched up to the report. Because of this incident I am not sure I hold AGS over GIA anymore.

I trust that the vendor will make good on the discrepancy and we will both be happy. I will keep you updated though.

The whole process has been depressing though because it has put a delay on ordering the setting.
 
Date: 9/25/2008 5:01:20 PM
Author: KeepItSecret
I am not understanding your last comment Wink because we as consumers trust the documentation the online vendors post as our first initial eyes when selecting a diamond off a website.
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I''m not sure who you''re referencing, Wink hasn''t posted in this thread?
 
Just caught this thread and thought I''d add my .02c.

As a frequent user of the Gran Colorimeter I am surprised that the person you brought the diamond to pointed to the colorimeter results as an "accurate" measurement device for princess cuts. It plainly isn''t. Not sure if you''ve read our article on it regarding color in diamond but I make note that it doesn''t accurately grade fancies. Much more consistent and accurate with rounds. After reading this I just ran a number of GIA/AGS graded princess cuts I have here and 2 color grades lower on the Colorimeter appears to be the average norm. These ran as follows...

An F to an H
an H to an I
A G to an I
A D to an F
and an I to a J.

It appears in the higher colors it is consistently off by 2 colors lower and the lower colors 1 grade.
 
Date: 9/25/2008 5:43:31 PM
Author: Rhino

As a frequent user of the Gran Colorimeter I am surprised that the person you brought the diamond to pointed to the colorimeter results as an 'accurate' measurement device for princess cuts.
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Ditto.
 
Date: 9/25/2008 12:14:59 PM
Author: elle_chris
PP, it''s happened before.
There''s one stone that comes to mind... think it was Harriets?
AGS said it was an I.
Local apprasier said K.
2nd Appraiser said J.

Vendor thought it was a low I (from what I remember).

But I am curious as to what KeepItSecrets appraiser said.


Vespergirl:
"It''s surprising to hear that AGS can have such a vast discrepency on the color grading of its stones. I know that EGL Israel always gets slammed on PS for being as many as two color grades off, and people always recommend to avoid EGL and go with GIA or AGS for ''mind clean'' stones when it comes to color. Now, I would not be any more comfortable trusting AGS with the color grade than I would EGL, if we''re seeing several stones that have gotten graded 2 grades off with the color appraisal. I guess I don''t feel so bad having saved some $ with EGL now! :)"
Click to expand...

Harriet''s stone is a nice, big, beautiful round and was graded a J by the colorimeter, an I by AGS. This stone is a princess and the colorimeter is not as accurate for fancy shapes.
Harriet has a large stone and color is more apparent in each grade the larger a stone gets. I would rely on a colorimeter for rounds in larger sizes - It is harder to grade color in larger sizes of stones because of the increased color present in each grade (i.e. a F in a 4 carat stone is going to show more body color than a 1 carat F) - this likely explains the K grade opinion by the first appraiser. The colorimeter J is one grade off of the AGS I report and within tolerances for a lab opinion.

I certainly would not discount AGS grading because of this!
 
Date: 9/25/2008 7:31:33 PM
Author: :)

Date: 9/25/2008 12:14:59 PM
Author: elle_chris
PP, it''s happened before.
There''s one stone that comes to mind... think it was Harriets?
AGS said it was an I.
Local apprasier said K.
2nd Appraiser said J.

Vendor thought it was a low I (from what I remember).

But I am curious as to what KeepItSecrets appraiser said.


Vespergirl:
''It''s surprising to hear that AGS can have such a vast discrepency on the color grading of its stones. I know that EGL Israel always gets slammed on PS for being as many as two color grades off, and people always recommend to avoid EGL and go with GIA or AGS for ''mind clean'' stones when it comes to color. Now, I would not be any more comfortable trusting AGS with the color grade than I would EGL, if we''re seeing several stones that have gotten graded 2 grades off with the color appraisal. I guess I don''t feel so bad having saved some $ with EGL now! :)''
Click to expand...


Harriet''s stone is a nice, big, beautiful round and was graded a J by the colorimeter, an I by AGS. This stone is a princess and the colorimeter is not as accurate for fancy shapes.
Harriet has a large stone and color is more apparent in each grade the larger a stone gets. I would rely on a colorimeter for rounds in larger sizes - It is harder to grade color in larger sizes of stones because of the increased color present in each grade (i.e. a F in a 4 carat stone is going to show more body color than a 1 carat F) - this likely explains the K grade opinion by the first appraiser. The colorimeter J is one grade off of the AGS I report and within tolerances for a lab opinion.

I certainly would not discount AGS grading because of this!
Click to expand...
I could be wrong about the K grade, I honestly don''t remember the whole story and too lazy to look for it. I just remember there were a few discrepencies between the cert and the appraisers.
But I agree that it doesn''t make AGS less strict. No lab is perfect, but at least GIA/AGS are consistant
 
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