Sending EGL-USA sent to AGA?

[esp102]

Subject should be: Sending EGL-USA to AGA? Not the word sent

http://grading.pricescope.com/conclusion.aspx

I read this post and it states that EGL-USA are 10% to 15% cheaper than GIA or AGS but
could be graded softer (1 grade).

If a person finds an ideal cut EGL-USA diamond D or E color, VS1+ and have David Atlas
run it through the ImaGem system and it comes back with an F or G color VS2 or even
eye clean SI1 - it seems from reading the above post it will still be cheaper
than buying an F or G, SI1 (GIA or AGS).

That seems to be the case after reading the conclusion of the study.

Of course I would like to buy an EGL diamond that's an in house diamond where a reputable online company
has seen for themselves - just to make sure the sarin is correct and it is a great stone.

Any comments?

 

[jasontb]

I guess it depends what you''re looking for and how long you''re willing to look.

I was shopping for a H&A round with cut being tops on my list of factors. So in that situation I ruled out EGL because I asked myself, ''Why would a cutter or knowlegeable merchant send top-shelf H&A to EGL when it would be in his best interests to have it graded by one of the big boys?''

What if you end up sending a couple of stones to Mr. Atlas before you find a good one. Then your savings is out the window.

 

[esp102]

For example, look at this stone:

http://www.whiteflash.com/diamonds/diamond_Details.aspx?itemcode=4550058

 

[Houseparty]

Date: 4/14/2006 2:57:10 PM
Author: esp102
For example, look at this stone:

http://www.whiteflash.com/diamonds/diamond_Details.aspx?itemcode=4550058

Hi,
I understand your premise. I have called Whiteflash about these kind of EGL stones (great specs with massive discounts to Rap). Whiteflash dogs these stones, wishes they could filter them out, and do not wish to sell them. Whiteflash says that the color, clarity and cut are all overrated, and if they sell them, they are always returned.

That''s what they told me...

David

 

[JohnQuixote]

Date: 4/14/2006 3:11:01 PM
Author: Houseparty
Hi,
I understand your premise. I have called Whiteflash about these kind of EGL stones (great specs with massive discounts to Rap). Whiteflash dogs these stones, wishes they could filter them out, and do not wish to sell them. Whiteflash says that the color, clarity and cut are all overrated, and if they sell them, they are always returned.

That's what they told me...

David

I don't disagree with the sentiment David is expressing, but I would expand the explanation to be a bit more global.

It's true that the most beautiful diamond in the world could be sent to EGL - or any other lab for grading. An AGS 'D' Flawless' will probably be a 'D' Flawless' with EGL as well, for instance. But manufacturers and sellers select the laboratory to which they send any given diamond carefully and strategically (more on that here in a great post by Neil Beaty).

Therefore, we encourage clients who want their diamonds held to the highest standards to seek AGS/GIA grading - which are the same standards our onsite experts and analysts conform to.

Now with that said, we occasionally have clients who freely admit they are seeking the most 'bang' for the 'buck.' Why? People are different... They may have identified an EGL diamond that they just plain have their hearts set on. Perhaps they prefer the price point for something they can 'call' X color and X clarity. Maybe they have an uncle who works for EGL.

This is a very small number of people, but some do wish to go forward. That's fine, but we want to be sure they have eyes wide open. In all cases we inform them that, in our experiences, the lab is not as strict as AGS/GIA (and some elite, boutique labs like some of the PS appraisers run). Most importantly, when and if we do agree to source such a diamond, the customer is well-aware of the potential for softness in the standards - and we do not extend our lifetime trade-up policy to include it. We're very clear about all of these things.

So I would add that we're really not 'grader-haters,' but in our process of being clear and up-front I can understand how the perception that we're dogging could be given.

Appreciate the comments, David.

 

[Rod]

John.......Such a nicely said, politically polite and appropriate response

Cheers!

 

[oldminer]

We find inconsistencies in all lab grading, including our own. It is the nature of subjective categorization and human endeavor. However, investigation and years of work experience tell us some labs grade looser than others. Put all that together and once in a while a sleeper is found, a stone of better than expected quality and value with a discounted asking price.

We let the stone do the talking and disregard the grading document. The primary value of the diamond is set by its innate quality. A secondary part of the value is the major lab document it comes with. When the lab document is right on target, consumers generally are very pleased. If a lab grades a little loose, many consumers are a bit disappointed that their "bargain" was not quite as they might have hoped for. If the loose lab happens to grade right on target on their particular diamond, the consumer might get a better than expected deal.

You think of the possible variations and we've seen it happen. I will not advise people against buying a diamond regardless of a lab report. I tell people that all reports are subject to opinion and need some leeway. We see less issues with AGS reports than any others these days, but I make every effort to let the diamond tell the tale and let the report that comes with it add value when such is the case.

 

[Houseparty]

Date: 4/14/2006 3:58:21 PM
Author: JohnQuixote

I don''t disagree with the sentiment David is expressing, but I would expand the explanation to be a bit more global.

Hi

Thank you John for your gracious and carefully crafted comments. Obviously you can reflect your company''s position better than I can.

There is one clarification I need to make. I was referring to "these kind of EGL stones (with great specs and massive discounts to Rap)". I was not intending to comment on Whiteflash''s position on all EGL diamonds.

For example, I sent the following e-mail:
"What''s wrong with this diamond? I know it is EGL, but it is over 40% off Rap. What are the angles?"

The reply from WF:
"Thanks for submitting this inquiry. This particular manufacturer has recently cut a production of "commercial" grade diamonds that we do not recommend. We are unable to filter them out and apologize. This is not a diamond that you would be happy with."

I followed up with a phone call and your representative was kind and helpful.

This thread has an interesting premise, but I must remind myself that markets are mostly efficient.

Sincerely,
David

 

[yellowrose]

Mr. Atlas,

I very rarely post to this forum, but have been a lurker for a long time, and I would just like to thank you for the time you take to educate us diamond consumers, and the tone in which you share your knowledge. You, sir, are a gentleman and I wish to say, "Thank you".

Yellowrose

p.s. - I did not mean in any way to hijack this subject matter.