Seeking Opinions on 1.17 OEC

[summerlove6]

A couple of years ago I received a small .30 carat transitional diamond in a 1920’s setting which was my great grandmothers, and so began my love for old cuts. I know many of you share this love and I have to give a great big THANKS to everyone here that has posted invaluable information in regards to old cuts. I decided to stop into my favorite local jewelry store to cash in on some old jewelry and check out some OECs in person.

I ended up falling head over heels for a 1.17, G, VVS2 OEC. Measurements are 6.65 x 6.60 x 3.95. The stone does not have a cert and specs were provided by the jeweler. I did view the diamond extensively under the grading microscope and it is totally clean with the exception of the rough girdle and a small inclusion on the pavillion. It faces up as white as my F princess cut. I evaluated for nail head and darkness under the table but in person could not identify either. I got the price down to the mid to upper $3k range. There is a 14 day return period and I plan to have the stone evaluated by another gemologist. In the meantime, I would truly appreciate opinions from those much more knowledgeable than I! Unfortunately we are experiencing a winter storm so I only braved the gale force winds momentarily to snap a couple outdoor pics. Any spots on the stone are either rain drops or lint (or dog hair).

 

[summerlove6]

Some more pics:

 

[lin_ny]

Wow! Its so white for an OEC. Maybe the whitest one I've ever seen!!

It looks nice. Beautiful pattern. Faceting is crisp, contrast is really nice. Looks bright. Proportion wise, I think I'd like the table just a WEEEEE bit smaller but that's just personal preference.

Price seems really fair. All in all, I like it!!!

ETA: I really know nothing. The experts will soon weigh in I'm sure!!

 

[summerlove6]

Wow! Its so white for an OEC. Maybe the whitest one I've ever seen!!

It looks nice. Beautiful pattern. Faceting is crisp, contrast is really nice. Looks bright. Proportion wise, I think I'd like the table just a WEEEEE bit smaller but that's just personal preference.

Price seems really fair. All in all, I like it!!!

ETA: I really know nothing. The experts will soon weigh in I'm sure!!

Thanks for weighing in, lin_ny! I was actually hoping to find lower colored OECs because they look so beautiful here on PS but this one just happened to jump out at me. I also thought the table was a bit larger than is typical of this cut. Your stone is absolutely gorgeous by the way!

 

[SB621]

There are some real old cut experts on this board (and the antique board) who are amazing. I can say for my .02 that I completely agree with lin_ny though! It is the whitest OEC I have ever seen! The facet pattern is very crisp and overall I really like the look. I also think the price is pretty good for that size and color. I would have placed it in the 4k range due to how white it is. Perhaps it has flur? Personally I think it is stunning!

 

[summerlove6]

There are some real old cut experts on this board (and the antique board) who are amazing. I can say for my .02 that I completely agree with lin_ny though! It is the whitest OEC I have ever seen! The facet pattern is very crisp and overall I really like the look. I also think the price is pretty good for that size and color. I would have placed it in the 4k range due to how white it is. Perhaps it has flur? Personally I think it is stunning!

Wow, thanks Sarahbear! I wondered about fluorescence too. I'm happy that the price seems reasonable in your opinion. If I decide to keep it, I definitely will have blown the bling budget for quite some time

 

[GemFever]

It looks lovely! I think in the upper $3K range is a great price for it.

Linny already mentioned the table, I would also say that the culet is a bit big, usually they are smaller in OECs. But that is just dry stats and specs. It looks like a beautiful stone, and IRL it's probably a great performer. For such a white stone, with what looks to be a great cut, at a great price -- I'd say go for it!

 

[Dreamer_D]

It is gorgeous and the price very reasonable.

I don't think it will be a VVS clarity and am not a fan of people other than GIA using that label. An it certaintly looks in the near colorless range, though we cannot tell much from photos. But at that price and with such lovely faceting, as long as it is eye clean the color and clarity are irrelevant.

 

[summerlove6]

It looks lovely! I think in the upper $3K range is a great price for it.

Linny already mentioned the table, I would also say that the culet is a bit big, usually they are smaller in OECs. But that is just dry stats and specs. It looks like a beautiful stone, and IRL it's probably a great performer. For such a white stone, with what looks to be a great cut, at a great price -- I'd say go for it!

Thank you, GemFever! I appreciate your input... and I love your words of encouragement! In regards to the performance, I was cupping my hand over the stone in the shop and the jeweler asked me why people do that. I told him I was shielding it from the fancy jewelry store lights. He told me to look up, and the lighting was actually terrible fluorescent office-like lighting. I couldn't believe how lively it was! I have never had any round over a third carat so I'm not sure what is typical but I was very impressed.

 

[summerlove6]

It is gorgeous and the price very reasonable.

I don't think it will be a VVS clarity and am not a fan of people other than GIA using that label. An it certaintly looks in the near colorless range, though we cannot tell much from photos. But at that price and with such lovely faceting, as long as it is eye clean the color and clarity are irrelevant.

Hi Dreamer, I was skeptical of the clarity grading especially after seeing the girdle under the microscope, but I would be happy with much lower clarity as long as I can't see it and it doesn't pose a threat. I am grateful for your opinion and so glad that it is a favorable one. I have spent many hours combing through your old cut threads so I must thank you again for all the knowledge you have contributed which has helped me (and probably many others) tremendously!

 

[Dreamer_D]

You are welcome, glad to be of use!

Regarding the culet and table... I don't see any negative effects of the table size so for me personally, I don't care about table size unless it seems to pose a problem for the optics! But in this case I don't see obvious signs of a too-large table. Culets also seem to me to be all over the place in OECs. There is no set size. Your diamond has very very short lower halves. Along with the larger culet it makes me think its an earlier cut. But it is really round which is unusual. How high is the crown? Do you have a profile shot?

 

[bunnycat]

It looks lovely and so very white! It seems like a great price for it! Congrats on the find!

 

[summerlove6]

Thank you, Bastetcat!

Dreamer, the jeweler also mentioned the rarity of the round shape. Would the short lower halves be the reason for the large-ish spread for its carat weight? I don't think the crown is very high. I attempted to get some pics of the crown this morning but it was a tough shot! Here are my best attempts:

 

[bunnycat]

Thank you, Bastetcat!

Dreamer, the jeweler also mentioned the rarity of the round shape. Would the short lower halves be the reason for the large-ish spread for its carat weight? I don't think the crown is very high. I attempted to get some pics of the crown this morning but it was a tough shot! Here are my best attempts:

I don't think the lower halves affect that (but someone correct me if I'm wrong!). The spread seems more like a function of teh crown and pavilion angles (and girdle thickness). If yours is 1.17ct with 6.6mm or so spread, then a guess is your crown and pavilion angles are a bit steeper than a modern cut would be, which makes sense for a lot of old cuts. It's be cool if you could get some measurements for it, but I guess that's not likely with spending $$ on a report for it.

The stone looks like a great size on your hand!

 

[Deactivated member 42515]

It looks great! And the price is right. Personally, I love a tall crown, small table but I don't think that matters because there doesn't seem to be any leakage. Yay!!

 

[Dreamer_D]

The lower havles are facets cut down the pavilion that bisect the pavilion mains. They create arrows in modern RBs when they are very symmtric. My diamond has long lower halves and has arrows. Your stone has short lower halves so under the table you see only the 8 pavilion mains -- like a pie sliced in 8 pieces! The crown is not super high. And with that roundness I think its not a super early cut. It just has a big culet. I love a large culet you can see with the naked eye.

Spread is a function of depth, which relates to the steepness of the crown and pavilion. Your diamond has a very moderate depth for a OEC which is why it has very good spread for its weight. Many OECs that weight are only 6.4-6.5.

I like its make a lot.

 

[summerlove6]

Bastetcat, thank you for explaining the spread. I thought about getting a cert for it but I don't think I could stand the suspense (anxiety) of sending it through the mail. I hope it looks as good on my hand in a setting, thank you!

YT, thank you! I can see a little leakage around the edges but that's about it.

Ah, I finally understand what the lower halves are, Dreamer! I thought it was just the entire "lower half" of the diamond... oops. I love being able to see the culet, too. You made me hungry with your sliced pie description, I love it.



Well, I did visit two other jewelers today. The carat weight, spread, color were verified. The clarity is another story. One stated that it was very clean and I would have no problems, another stated that they could do their best to hide the "chips and nicks" for me if they were to set it. I have no idea what power my loupe magnifies to, but when I turn the stone table side down under the loupe I can see several small gouges around the bottom of the girdle and two of them in particular seem to extend onto the lower half facets. I did notice this when I viewed it under the microscope but didn't think too much of it because from the side, they appear to just be a part of the rough girdle. (It does not look like the bearding does here, but more like chips: [URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/oec-finally-set-i-have-been-holding-out.147098/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/oec-finally-set-i-have-been-holding-out.147098/[/URL] .)

I'm pretty sure this is typical of a well worn diamond that is a century or so 'old', and probably not from the cutting process. There is also an extra facet that looks as if it was cut to remove or lessen a chip from just under the girdle. The girdle seems very thin compared to my slightly thick princess girdle. I don't mind that the stone is imperfect; I enjoy its character, but will these types of "injuries" put the stone at risk of fracturing? Should I take this damage into consideration when choosing a setting? I feel silly asking considering it is barely visible to the naked eye. I would attempt to take a picture but my eyes hurt from too much louping! Oh, I should mention that I'm not very keen on recutting/polishing because I think the stone is absolutely gorgeous as is and I would not want to take a risk.

 

[missy]

I love this OEC! It has gorgeous faceting!!

I cannot answer your structural integrity questions but I would take it to an expert (someone who isn't selling jewelry) who can examine it and give you an objective answer. We have some trusted appraisers on PS who might be able to help you with regards to this issue.

 

[ariel144]

Beautiful OEC. Great find...can't wait to see it set.