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Seeking advice on BGD vs non BGD Hearts & Arr

Naslund

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 30, 2012
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5
Hello there. Like many posters I have read on this amazing forum, I am a newbie member and have little experience and knowledge of the diamond industry. I consider myself more knowledgeable on the subject now thanks in large part to this forum and some local jewelers in Toronto.

I have found the one and I want to find the perfect ring for her. I am currently looking at a BGD Hearts and Arrow diamond with Ideal cut, symmetry, polish, color G or H and clarity SI1. Size is 1 karat. I understand that the high standard of cut of this diamond will really bring out the flash and brilliance and light etc. However, a local jeweler has me convinced that his unbranded Hearts and Arrows diamond is just as good as BGD because it carries the GIA rating and matches the ratings category by category. In his words, if any diamond matches the criteria of a H+A diamond then it is just as good. So for instance, he has a diamond that is H color, SI1 clarity, Excellent cut, Excellent symmetry, polish...everything matching the BGD cut except it's graded by GIA rather than AGS. He's asking 1000 dollars less for the ring than BGD. So...is it true that if the specifications are more or less the same between two diamonds (color, cut, symmetry, polish, facets, crown and table percentage) then the diamonds will more or less be of the same quality irrespective of branding? This jeweler also mentions that most diamonds are coming from India today where they are then sent out for cutting. I mention this last note because it struck me as odd that that would be true. The BGD salesperson was explaining to me that they're diamonds are cut in Belgium. I'm lost here. I want to get the right ring that will last a long time on my fiancee. I know that BGD has outstanding cuts and I can see their diamonds 'pop' off the screen in videos though I haven't seen one in person. At the same time I don't want to pay an extra chunk of money simply for branding. Yes, I know that BGD is a much more affordable yet similar cut to more expensive cuts such as HOF - but does the same rule apply between unbranded stones and his own brand? On the contrary I do not want to save a thousand or so dollars if I'm going to be getting an unbranded H+A diamond that matches up to a BGD stone on paper but not in person. Someone drop some education on me please! I find this entire foray into diamonds incredibly interesting yet nerve wracking. I am in a time crunch as I have a proposal planned in the next 10 days. Like I said, nerve-wracking.
 
Why don't you get the specs of the diamond and see if BGD can match it? Best of both worlds. I'll let others in here explain why for cut, AGS is better.

As far as I understand it, GIA is stricter on colour than AGS, but It rounds the numbers of the pavilion and star facets. This is part of the hearts and arrows equation, along with the crown angle, and pavilion angle.

So find a BGD signature stone or whiteflash ACA or similar, print out the certificate and be sure ALL the measurements are the same or very similar. Then get those measurements and post them on here and experts might be able to find where that 1000 is going.

If I were you though I'd be using that other diamond as a bargaining chip to get the BGD diamond at a lesser price.
 
So... have you seen the hearts and arrows and can verify that the other stone is needed a heart and arrows stone. A diamond can have some hearts and some arrows but that doesn't make it a hearts and arrows stone. I want to make sure you are comparing gala apples to gala apples so to speak.



This thread will be helpful for you: [URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/likelihood-of-finding-a-signature-super-ideal-diamond.174235/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/likelihood-of-finding-a-signature-super-ideal-diamond.174235/[/URL]
 
It's definitely possible to get an unbranded H&A and save a considerable amount of money in the process. My "e-bay diamond" came in thousands under a branded H&A. You have to do the legwork, but with a 14-day return policy, there was zero risk. I would do it again in a heartbeat.



dscf6135.jpg
 
I believe we're talking gala apples to gala apples like you say (even though I don't have a specific H+A link for the non branded diamond right now).

The BGD diamond in question is here:
http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamonds/diamond-details/1.007-h-si1-round-diamond-ags-1040376130004

I do not have a link to the non branded diamond but I do have a quote in email form read as:

F color $8290 G color $7863 H color $7252 all hearts and arrows 1.01ct SI1 triple EX GIA certified. Crowns 33-35, depth 59-61, tables 53-57.

Here is a GIA certificate of a round diamond very similar but without the Hearts and Arrows cut. He says he can get the H+A cut by Wednesday.
http://www.diamondselections.com/GetCertificate.aspx?DiamondID=38222643
And his web page: http://www.randor.com/DiamondSeachPage.html

The other thread you linked is excellent. Only problem is there are no blue diamonds available at BGD for less than the H+A in question.

Hope this helps. Appreciate the insight. Anyone have more light they want to shed?
 
gypsy, the non branded jeweler understands I'm looking for a super ideal H+A. At least I believe he does. He keeps referring me to Tolkowsky who I have a basic understanding of but not his cuts direct relation to super ideal H+A's.
 
https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/tolkowsky-ideal-cut-diamond This might help.

Keep in mind that Hearts and Arrows is patterning. It's about symmetry. Not about light return. So make sure you have an idealscope to verify the light return is as good as the BGD stones.

Okay, good. I just want to make sure you are looking at comparables. If the stones are GIA/AGS graded okay.

If they are comparable, I certainly wouldn't need the branding. But the upgrade and buy back policies (which add to the price, but are worth it for some people) on BGD stones are something many people like. So again, make sure you are certain you are getting what you need.

http://www.ideal-scope.com/cart_order.asp Beginner scope is only 25 bucks.
 
Naslund|1341119957|3226808 said:
gypsy, the non branded jeweler understands I'm looking for a super ideal H+A. At least I believe he does. He keeps referring me to Tolkowsky who I have a basic understanding of but not his cuts direct relation to super ideal H+A's.
might be worth giving BGD a chance to match the price?? i would...
 
sleeprequired|1341121003|3226812 said:
Naslund|1341119957|3226808 said:
gypsy, the non branded jeweler understands I'm looking for a super ideal H+A. At least I believe he does. He keeps referring me to Tolkowsky who I have a basic understanding of but not his cuts direct relation to super ideal H+A's.
might be worth giving BGD a chance to match the price?? i would...


You have to understand that BGD offers upgrade and buy back policies that this local store probably doesn't. If you did want to try to negotiate pricing (and it's worth it to try), you will probably want to mention that you are willing to give these up for a better price, but I don't know if they do that.

But I guess, I don't see the point in not awarding this local shop the business. It sounds like they have given you good service, good pricing and good knowledge. I think that if the stones are really equal, they should be rewarded for their investment of time and energy. Not that BGD isn't a great company as well. But this sounds like a good local shop and you have the stone in person and have seen it yourself.

You might want to give them our information and see if they want to join and post. I always refer good local vendors to PS.
 
Gypsy|1341123165|3226820 said:
sleeprequired|1341121003|3226812 said:
Naslund|1341119957|3226808 said:
gypsy, the non branded jeweler understands I'm looking for a super ideal H+A. At least I believe he does. He keeps referring me to Tolkowsky who I have a basic understanding of but not his cuts direct relation to super ideal H+A's.
might be worth giving BGD a chance to match the price?? i would...


You have to understand that BGD offers upgrade and buy back policies that this local store probably doesn't. If you did want to try to negotiate pricing (and it's worth it to try), you will probably want to mention that you are willing to give these up for a better price, but I don't know if they do that.

But I guess, I don't see the point in not awarding this local shop the business. It sounds like they have given you good service, good pricing and good knowledge. I think that if the stones are really equal, they should be rewarded for their investment of time and energy. Not that BGD isn't a great company as well. But this sounds like a good local shop and you have the stone in person and have seen it yourself.

You might want to give them our information and see if they want to join and post. I always refer good local vendors to PS.
true, why not try everywhere - BGD , whiteflash, James Allen etc and your local store... Always worth a shot to get best price or perhaps you could get your local store to offer a buyback as well if that's what you're after instead of a discount...

You guys are lucky compared to Australia... there is just no way a local jeweler will match here...

**edit** - a local shop certainly does make it cheaper to inspect stones i suppose... i know that's something i'd like to be able to do...
 
It comes down to whether you can trust your local jeweler to give you an H&A stone cut to the highest standards. If you want to get into the real nitty gritty of H&A cuts, check out this video by Good Old Gold:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MocNn5LgGCc&feature=plcp

If you want the very best, and you have a scintilla of doubt about your local jeweler, go with the Brian Gavin Diamond and forget about the worry.

If you can be flexible about the very best, and the cost is a factor, consider the local jeweler.

As others have pointed out, see what else (like return policy, upgrades, service) you may be giving up with the local jeweler and then make a fully informed purchase.
 
Like others have said, you need more information on the other "non-branded" H&A diamond in order to make a fair comparison. But yes, you can definitely get a great looking stone with a H&A pattern that isn't branded.
 
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