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Seeking a little help on engagement ring....thanks!

Oneslowa4

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 1, 2016
Messages
4
Hello forum members. I'm looking to pop the question soon. I've done a lot of research and finally narrowed it down to something I think she'll love. Just looking for a little input spec wise. The company seems very reputable, has upgrade options for future and ended up having an appointment only show room local. Made my appointment for thursday. Budget 5 to 6500

Any input or things to look out for I'd appreciate it in advance!

Thanks

screenshot_2016-01-30-20-44-53.png
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
40,198
What are the specs on that stone? What is the table, depth, pavilon angle, crown angle, and dimensions.
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
40,198
Round Diamonds 101:

The entire purpose of faceting a diamond is to reflect light.
How well or how poorly a diamond does this determines how beautiful it is.
How well a diamond performs is determined by the angles and cutting. This is why we say cut is king.
No other factor: not color, not clarity has as much of an impact on the appearance of a diamond as its cut. An ideal H will out white a poorly cut F. With round diamonds even a GIA triple Excellent is not enough. And you must stick to GIA and AGS only (HPD in Europe is good as well). EGL is a bad option: [URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/egl-certification-are-any-of-them-ok.142863/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/egl-certification-are-any-of-them-ok.142863/[/URL]
So how to we ensure that we have the right angles and cutting to get the light performance we want?
https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/diamond-cut
Well one method is to start with a GIA Ex, and then apply the HCA to it. YOU DO NOT USE HCA for AGS0 stones generally, though you can. In general, AGS0 trumps HCA though as one examines the actual stone and the other does not.
https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/holloway-cut-advisor
The HCA is a rejection tool. Not a selection tool. It uses 4 data points to make a rudimentary call on how the diamond may perform.
If the diamond passes then you know that you are in the right zone in terms of angles for light performance. Under 2 is a pass. Under 2.5-2.1 is a maybe. 2.6 and over is a no. No score 2 and under is better than any other.
Is that enough? Not really.

So what you need is a way to check actual light performance of your actual stone.
That's what an idealscope image does. https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/firescope-idealscope
It shows you how and wear your diamond is reflecting light, how well it is going at it, and where you are losing light return. That is why you won't see us recommending Blue Nile, as they do not provide idealscope images for their diamonds. BGD,BE, James Allen, GOG, HPD, ERD and WF do.

The Idealscope is the 'selection tool'. Not the HCA.
So yes, with a GIA stone you need the idealscope images. Or you can buy an idealscope yourself and take it in to the jeweler you are working with to check the stones yourself. Or if you have a good return policy (full refund minimum 7 days) then you can buy the idealscope, buy the stone, and do it at home.

Now if you want to skip all that... stick to AGS0 stones and then all you have to do is pick color and clarity and you know you have a great performing diamond. Because AGS has already done the checking for you. That's why they trade at a premium. Some AGS0's are better than others though, so pay attention to any ASET or IS provided.

In general with rounds, you will want a table 60% or less. A depth between 59 and 62.4. Crown angle 33.5-36. Pavilion Angle: 40.6-41 (there is a little give on this). And the crown and pavilion angles must be complimentary which is what the HCA checks for you.

ON COLOR:

It is important to remember is that color is graded FACE DOWN. Where there is NO light return. Not face up where there is light return and refraction. You wear diamonds set. FACE UP.

Within one color grade, even the labs can't agree on the color grades of stones and something could be a "high" H or a "low" E. So... no. Not really. Within 2 color grades it is hard. Not impossible. But very hard. And it gets harder once set. If you are talking ideal rounds, or any stone with ideal light return and no sharp corners it gets harder still because the ideal light return masks body color.

Generally we say to be conservative stay above H in a round. But MANY people have happily bought white I or even J diamonds when trying to eek out a little more size.

This is how I think of it.

Ever gotten one of those HUGE paint fan decks? Where there are literally 100s of colors of whites? And when they are RIGHT next to each other you can TOTALLY tell that one is bluer/colder and one is a bit warmer and which one is one is TOTALLY warmer. One there's one that's slightly greener. One that's slightly pinker? But really. They are all white?

Then you pick one after agonizing over this white or that white and when it's on the walls and people are like: Oh. You painted again. And it's STILL white. Great.

And you're all... BUT it's BLUE white. Or it's a WARM white now. It used to be ____ white. It's TOTALLY different.

It's like that. You are talking about shades of white. D is colder... J is warmer. But it's all white.

YES. If you have an accurately graded F and an H THAT HAVE THE SAME PERFORMANCE you are going to be able to tell them apart when you compare them. Just like you would be able to tell if you painted your walls a warm white, but painted the crown molding a cold/straight white. But both are STILL white.


I want you notice all the qualifiers thought. I'm talking about stones with the SAME performance. An ideal H will out white an F that has compromised light performance from a poor cut.

NOTHING impacts the appearance of a diamond as much as cut. CUT is king.

You want the shinest whitest and brightest diamond out there: Cut is King. No other factor, not color or clarity or anything else impacts how white bright an shiny a stone is.

ON CLARITY:
http://www.goodoldgold.com/4Cs/Clarity/SI/ and http://www.goodoldgold.com/4Cs/Clarity/VS/ Generally we say that eyeclean SI1 and VS2 are as high as you need to go with round brilliants, have your vendor check the diamond for this. VS1 will always be eyeclean, but they do cost more and an eyeclean SI1 and a VS1 will look the same to the unaided eye.
 

Oneslowa4

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 1, 2016
Messages
4
Oh man, looks like I have a lot to read before I go in tomorrow.

I just didn't want to get "taken"at the jeweler lol.

Time to really up.

Any other input on that specific stone and ring would be nice.

Thanks again.
 

E B

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 31, 2005
Messages
9,488
The diamond you've picked has an IGI certificate, which doesn't grade as strictly as GIA/AGS and therefore you may not get what you expect, color and clarity-wise. I didn't see any around what you wanted to spend (on diamond only) at Brilliant Earth with the specs we usually recommend (in Gypsy's guide), but here's one at just under a carat that looks great from another vendor.

http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3597934.htm

Do you see any settings she would like here?

http://www.whiteflash.com/engagement-rings/
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
40,198
Oneslowa4|1454445480|3985771 said:
No angles listed. Read what I posted for you. You need the angles. And we do not recommend IGI. AGS or GIA only in the US.
 

Oneslowa4

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 1, 2016
Messages
4
Gypsy|1454450767|3985817 said:
Oneslowa4|1454445480|3985771 said:
No angles listed. Read what I posted for you. You need the angles. And we do not recommend IGI. AGS or GIA only in the US.
Yeah I read through it all and it made me think I may need to keep researching lol. Yeah, I'll go in there and see what angles are and also what they keep on stock in my price range.

But very informative post.
 

diamondseeker2006

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jan 11, 2006
Messages
55,607
My personal feeling from looking at BE in the past is that their prices are higher than some other places. My advice is to go in with the resolve NOT to buy tomorrow. I would not buy anything other than GIA (or AGS which is not as common) graded diamond. Stick with GIA Excellent cut only.

These are measurements to help you stay in ideal cut territory with a GIA excellent cut stone.

table: 54-58

depth: 60-62.3

crown angle: 34-35.0

pavilion angle: 40.6-40.9 (sometimes 41.0)
 

ADN

Shiny_Rock
Trade
Joined
Nov 24, 2015
Messages
311
E B|1454447032|3985778 said:
The diamond you've picked has an IGI certificate, which doesn't grade as strictly as GIA/AGS and therefore you may not get what you expect, color and clarity-wise.
Hi E B - :wavey: - just out of interest (not argument :) )...and not to start another thread, but how did you come to this finding? Is this based on opinion, personal experience or do you have something to back this up?
There was actually a small study done in 2013 where 10 stones were all sent to a number of labs for comparison (google 'Grade the Grader if interested in the results).
Based on colour / clarity / cut / symmetry / polish / fluorescence - - the difference between the GIA & IGI grading was virtually non-existent (although some could argue that there weren't any SI2s in the test, and that this may have resulted in more differences?)
But going on what was graded, IGI & GIA were pretty much spot on with each other.
(EGL fared as you'd expect :doh: )
I'm certainly not endorsing IGI over GIA at all, I’d just be interested to know how people on PS have come to form their views/opinions about IGI as this seems to be a reoccurring comment?
Thanks
 

flyingpig

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Nov 7, 2015
Messages
2,171
ADN|1454502090|3986102 said:
E B|1454447032|3985778 said:
The diamond you've picked has an IGI certificate, which doesn't grade as strictly as GIA/AGS and therefore you may not get what you expect, color and clarity-wise.
Hi E B - :wavey: - just out of interest (not argument :) )...and not to start another thread, but how did you come to this finding? Is this based on opinion, personal experience or do you have something to back this up?
There was actually a small study done in 2013 where 10 stones were all sent to a number of labs for comparison (google 'Grade the Grader if interested in the results).
Based on colour / clarity / cut / symmetry / polish / fluorescence - - the difference between the GIA & IGI grading was virtually non-existent (although some could argue that there weren't any SI2s in the test, and that this may have resulted in more differences?)
But going on what was graded, IGI & GIA were pretty much spot on with each other.
(EGL fared as you'd expect :doh: )
I'm certainly not endorsing IGI over GIA at all, I’d just be interested to know how people on PS have come to form their views/opinions about IGI as this seems to be a reoccurring comment?
Thanks
This could be due to due multiple reasons: other members' comments, personal experience, vendors' inputs, etc..
In my cases,
1. Personal experience based on what I see on James Allen, in regards to clarity (especially at SI1/SI2). Thus, I cannot trust their color grading.
2. This is from WF's website regarding IGI Antwerp
" We will be better able to assess the system's strictness once those diamonds begin hitting the market and reach the hands of independent appraisers and other experts in a position to give unbiased feedback"
So.. my conclusion is that there has not been enough unbiased feedback and confirmation among premier vendors.
 
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