Secondary hues in colored stones

[T L]

My other topic got way off the subject, and started getting into hues of stones and what people prefer. Therefore, I think the subject is so fascinating that I thought I''d start a discussion on secondary hues. These rules do not apply to colored diamonds for me at least. I love colored diamonds, and they''re so rare that I can live with secondary hues that are not my cup of tea. For example, if someone handed me a blue grey diamond, I wouldn''t give it back.

These are just my tastes and you can of course disagree. It''s fun to agree to disagree. Some people might love these secondary hues in their stones.

As I''ve stated in the other thread if a stone is predominantly green, I don''t want olive hues (or grey which tends to make green stone look olive).

If a stone in predominantly pink, red, orange, or yellow, I don''t want to see brownish secondary hues.

If a stone is blue, I don''t want to see any grey (unless it''s a diamond of course!!)

One stone I can''t seem to get the olive out is tsavorite. I''ve seen some fine examples costing thousands of dollars, and that slight secondary hue of olive really ruins it for me. That''s why I love fine emeralds. They are a very rare example of a pure green stone without the olive secondary hues.

 

[Harriet]

I shy away from brown, grey and yellow. I think I understand what you mean by "olive" in green stones. Is that a function of grey or, rather, yellow? I'm afraid I also have to disagree with you on "olive" in Tsavorites. I have a number of them and they are pure green. One even has a blue tinge. It's my pet.

 

[marcy]

I so agree. Sometimes I don''t mind it like purple / pink, blue / purple, red / orange but when it is grey, yellow or brown I don''t like it.

 

[LtlFirecracker]

I think I would agree with your thoughts on secondary hues. I have am still getting an eye but here are things that make me pass a stone by

Yellow undertones in a green stone

Gray in a blue sapphire

Browns in pink stones

TL...I never thought about olive, but I think I see what your are saying. Olive too me would be green with brown in it....not really a color I am looking for in a gem.

 

[gemnut]

Date: 12/7/2008 10:58:15 PM
Author:tourmaline_lover
My other topic got way off the subject, and started getting into hues of stones and what people prefer. Therefore, I think the subject is so fascinating that I thought I''d start a discussion on secondary hues. These rules do not apply to colored diamonds for me at least. I love colored diamonds, and they''re so rare that I can live with secondary hues that are not my cup of tea. For example, if someone handed me a blue grey diamond, I wouldn''t give it back.

These are just my tastes and you can of course disagree. It''s fun to agree to disagree. Some people might love these secondary hues in their stones.

As I''ve stated in the other thread if a stone is predominantly green, I don''t want olive hues (or grey which tends to make green stone look olive).

If a stone in predominantly pink, red, orange, or yellow, I don''t want to see brownish secondary hues.

If a stone is blue, I don''t want to see any grey (unless it''s a diamond of course!!)

One stone I can''t seem to get the olive out is tsavorite. I''ve seen some fine examples costing thousands of dollars, and that slight secondary hue of olive really ruins it for me. That''s why I love fine emeralds. They are a very rare example of a pure green stone without the olive secondary hues.

I agree with you on all the secndar hues you mentioned. Emeralds, however - especially Columbian emeralds tend to have a secondary yellow hue, as I discovered recently after making a bad, bad purchasing decision - that is quite ugly.

 

[T L]

Date: 12/7/2008 11:21:16 PM
Author: Harriet
I shy away from brown, grey and yellow. I think I understand what you mean by 'olive' in green stones. Is that a function of grey or, rather, yellow? I'm afraid I also have to disagree with you on 'olive' in Tsavorites. I have a number of them and they are pure green. One even has a blue tinge. It's my pet.

You should post pics because I've never seen a tsavorite with a blue tinge. I'd love to see it, so prove me wrong!!

 

[T L]

Date: 12/7/2008 11:29:39 PM
Author: gemnut

Date: 12/7/2008 10:58:15 PM
Author:tourmaline_lover
My other topic got way off the subject, and started getting into hues of stones and what people prefer. Therefore, I think the subject is so fascinating that I thought I''d start a discussion on secondary hues. These rules do not apply to colored diamonds for me at least. I love colored diamonds, and they''re so rare that I can live with secondary hues that are not my cup of tea. For example, if someone handed me a blue grey diamond, I wouldn''t give it back.

These are just my tastes and you can of course disagree. It''s fun to agree to disagree. Some people might love these secondary hues in their stones.

As I''ve stated in the other thread if a stone is predominantly green, I don''t want olive hues (or grey which tends to make green stone look olive).

If a stone in predominantly pink, red, orange, or yellow, I don''t want to see brownish secondary hues.

If a stone is blue, I don''t want to see any grey (unless it''s a diamond of course!!)

One stone I can''t seem to get the olive out is tsavorite. I''ve seen some fine examples costing thousands of dollars, and that slight secondary hue of olive really ruins it for me. That''s why I love fine emeralds. They are a very rare example of a pure green stone without the olive secondary hues.

I agree with you on all the secndar hues you mentioned. Emeralds, however - especially Columbian emeralds tend to have a secondary yellow hue, as I discovered recently after making a bad, bad purchasing decision - that is quite ugly.

Not super fine Columbian emeralds, at least not to my knowledge. I have a couple, and they both have blue secondary hues.

 

[gemnut]

Apparently this was not a "super fine" emerald!

 

[Pandora II]

Date: 12/7/2008 10:58:15 PM
Author:tourmaline_lover
My other topic got way off the subject, and started getting into hues of stones and what people prefer. Therefore, I think the subject is so fascinating that I thought I'd start a discussion on secondary hues. These rules do not apply to colored diamonds for me at least. I love colored diamonds, and they're so rare that I can live with secondary hues that are not my cup of tea. For example, if someone handed me a blue grey diamond, I wouldn't give it back.

These are just my tastes and you can of course disagree. It's fun to agree to disagree. Some people might love these secondary hues in their stones.

As I've stated in the other thread if a stone is predominantly green, I don't want olive hues (or grey which tends to make green stone look olive).

If a stone in predominantly pink, red, orange, or yellow, I don't want to see brownish secondary hues.

If a stone is blue, I don't want to see any grey (unless it's a diamond of course!!)

One stone I can't seem to get the olive out is tsavorite. I've seen some fine examples costing thousands of dollars, and that slight secondary hue of olive really ruins it for me. That's why I love fine emeralds. They are a very rare example of a pure green stone without the olive secondary hues.

The tsavorite in my e-ring (in my avatar) has a bluish tinge and absolutely no olive at all. I HATE olive in tsavorite. It did take a long search to find my stone.

Harriet's tsavs are a very similar colour to mine and one of them also has the bluish secondary.

I've had more trouble finding a great emerald.

With blue stones, I like a violet secondary. Gray is a big no for me.

With yellow stones, I like an orange secondary - I hate greeish secondaries - unless I am looking at mali garnets or chrysoberyls - but in a sapphire or diamond it would be a no from me.

Red stones, I like a warm secondary so I will go for the orange reds over the purple reds.

I don't mind a brown undertone in orange stones.

Pink stones - anything but grey is fine with me.

Really it all comes down to the individual stone. If it tells me I 'need' to own it, that is all it takes, even if it's not textbook perfect.

 

[beaujolais]

Good question.

I sometimes like muted colors. You seem to prefer crisp and pure.

I often like a bit of yellow in a peridot - it makes it a chartreuse color and reminds me of fall leaves when they start to yellow or new spring grass. I have a pink tourmaline with a brown secondary (more visable indoors and at night) that makes it go dusty rose and it's also a pretty subtle shade. Olive stones - sometimes love it - I'm keeping my eyes open for an olivey peridot or green sapphire right now.

But, I've found it hard to find a med. blue sapphire without purple in it and would really love such. I'm not fond of red stones with a purple secondary. Now, I prefer the tones in tsavorites that you don't. While I can appreciate a pure emerald color, it's just not me and would prefer a "quieter" green.

Good, thought provoking question.

 

[Harriet]

Date: 12/7/2008 11:55:43 PM
Author: tourmaline_lover

Date: 12/7/2008 11:21:16 PM
Author: Harriet
I shy away from brown, grey and yellow. I think I understand what you mean by ''olive'' in green stones. Is that a function of grey or, rather, yellow? I''m afraid I also have to disagree with you on ''olive'' in Tsavorites. I have a number of them and they are pure green. One even has a blue tinge. It''s my pet.

You should post pics because I''ve never seen a tsavorite with a blue tinge. I''d love to see it, so prove me wrong!!

You may have to take my word for it, since the blue is extremely hard to capture on camera. Here is Leon Mege''s photograph of my stone: http://www.artofplatinum.com/4images/details.php?image_id=469

 

[T L]

Maybe it's how tsavorites photograph because I still see olive in every single photo I've ever seen of a tsavorite.

 

[Harriet]

You''ll have to see a good specimen in real life, then.

 

[T L]

Yes probably. I still wonder what the finest tsavorite would look like next to the finest emerald though. I''m partial to emerald''s color, that''s why.

 

[Pandora II]

Date: 12/8/2008 10:10:16 PM
Author: tourmaline_lover
Maybe it's how tsavorites photograph because I still see olive in every single photo I've ever seen of a tsavorite.

I think that may be true - I went back and looked at all the ones of mine on here compared with the real thing in my hand and whilst there is not a hint of yellow or olive in the actual stone, I can see some in the pictures.

That said, I haunt a lot of the top jewellers shops here in London and I'm often asked if they can have a closer look at my emerald. Those who know what it really is have told me it's a very fine example.

I have compared it with the emeralds in the Natural History Museum collection and I have to say that they are two different beasts. Emeralds have a softer look to them - tsavorites have a harder look and more sparkle.

Personally I would take a fine tsav over a fine emerald every time. I've had a good close look at the ones in Moussaieff and they just don't do it for me.

 

[Catmom]

Date: 12/9/2008 9:41:44 AM
Author: Pandora II

Date: 12/8/2008 10:10:16 PM
Author: tourmaline_lover
Maybe it''s how tsavorites photograph because I still see olive in every single photo I''ve ever seen of a tsavorite.

I think that may be true - I went back and looked at all the ones of mine on here compared with the real thing in my hand and whilst there is not a hint of yellow or olive in the actual stone, I can see some in the pictures.

That said, I haunt a lot of the top jewellers shops here in London and I''m often asked if they can have a closer look at my emerald. Those who know what it really is have told me it''s a very fine example.

I have compared it with the emeralds in the Natural History Museum collection and I have to say that they are two different beasts. Emeralds have a softer look to them - tsavorites have a harder look and more sparkle.

Personally I would take a fine tsav over a fine emerald every time. I''ve had a good close look at the ones in Moussaieff and they just don''t do it for me.

Ditto, Pandora! My tsav has a hint of blue as well and there is absolutely no yellow or olive in the stone IRL. I went back and looked closely at my pictures and I can see some in the pictures. It''s frustrating because I know it''s not there. I also much prefer a fine tsav over an emerald even though it''s my birthstone.

 

[T L]

To me, and I am not meaning to say emeralds are better than tsavorites or vice versa, but I just love the way light goes through a fine emerald and makes it look like velvet. I think tsavorites have way more sparkle to them, and that''s fine. It just depends on what you like better. Some people prefer the sparkle of a tsavorite to the velvet of an emerald. Most people also do not like emeralds because they are typically highly included stones, but I do think the finest examples in the world have a green glow to them.

When Americans in the last 30 years or so found the lost treasure of 15th century sunken Spanish ships off the coast of Florida, the divers could spot the emeralds right away due to their unique "glow." Those emeralds were untreated and probably highly clean. It''s a much rarer occurrence these days to be mining such high quality out of Columbia, and most emeralds are fracture filled because of the lack of quality, which I think is sad.

Well, I''ll have to go find a top quality tsavorite and see it in person one of these days. I''m glad that people have put my notions to rest, and it''s just a photography issue with these stones. In a world where super fine emerald is extremely difficult to come by (even in museums), it''s good to know that there are many other beautiful green stones.

 

[Pandora II]

Date: 12/9/2008 11:16:33 AM
Author: tourmaline_lover
To me, and I am not meaning to say emeralds are better than tsavorites or vice versa, but I just love the way light goes through a fine emerald and makes it look like velvet. I think tsavorites have way more sparkle to them, and that''s fine. It just depends on what you like better. Some people prefer the sparkle of a tsavorite to the velvet of an emerald. Most people also do not like emeralds because they are typically highly included stones, but I do think the finest examples in the world have a green glow to them.

When Americans in the last 30 years or so found the lost treasure of 15th century sunken Spanish ships off the coast of Florida, the divers could spot the emeralds right away due to their unique ''glow.'' Those emeralds were untreated and probably highly clean. It''s a much rarer occurrence these days to be mining such high quality out of Columbia, and most emeralds are fracture filled because of the lack of quality, which I think is sad.

Well, I''ll have to go find a top quality tsavorite and see it in person one of these days. I''m glad that people have put my notions to rest, and it''s just a photography issue with these stones. In a world where super fine emerald is extremely difficult to come by (even in museums), it''s good to know that there are many other beautiful green stones.

Totally agree with what you say. It really is apples and pears and a personal preference rather than one being ''better'' than another.

I have a problem with stones with a lot of eye visible inclusions. I have been lucky enough to see very clean, top colour emeralds (living near New Bond Street helps

) and even then most have a significant fracture or inclusion group.
I also like sparkle!

For now I''m just happy that my personal preference has a lower price tag!

Really good chrome tourmalines can have the really intense emerald green colour with a bluish cast.

The ones I''ve never managed to find a top green in are Chrome Diopside. I have a few and even the best of them has an olive look (hence why I knew what you were probably seeing in tsavorites).

 

[coatimundi_org]

Color is subjective.

I don't compare emeralds to tsavorites, because, as Pandora pointed out, they are two different beasts entirely--and should be studied independently, as they each have unique properties. I'd rather have a high RI green gem than one in the beryl range. I've seen fine emerald--it's my birthstone--and I've never had a desire to own one.

I'm always wary of gem photographs, and I would not use photos to judge color. I went to a gem show last weekend and saw quite a few tsavorites. No yellow--some had the bluish secondary--stunning!

eta: ditto Pandora on that lower price tag!

 

[Harriet]

Re: Emeralds and Tsavorites
They are incommensurable because of their lustre, for one.

Re: ''Olive'' Tsavorites
I''ve had the privilege of seeing dozens of Tsavorites and solemnly swear that I''ve never detected an olive secondary. The blue-tinged ones are not easy to come by. If you do stumble across one, grab it!