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Second opinion

hanhan

Rough_Rock
Joined
Mar 8, 2016
Messages
6
I would like to have a second opinion from you readers as I am looking for the best diamond for my lady. My first priority would be an excellent cut with maximum fire and scintillations. I have narrowed it down to 3 diamonds, listed below:

1. Diamond A
Carat: 0.77
Colour grade: F
Clarity grade: VVS1
Cut / Polish / Symmetry: Excellent
GIA report: 5161655515
Price: USD 8,645
Note: The diamond is Lazare diamond, the store salesman highly recommends the diamond
2. Diamond B
Carat: 0.92
Colour grade: E
Clarity grade: IF
Cut / Polish / Symmetry: Excellent
GIA report: 7216702163
Price: USD 9,510
Note: The diamond is selected as it has excellent cut and IF clarity with excellent colour as well
3. Diamond C
Carat: 0.95
Colour grade: E
Clarity grade: VS1
Cut / Polish / Symmetry: Excellent
GIA report: 6202387203
Price: USD 9,366
Note: The diamond is selected as it has the highest HCA number and my lady would like a bigger stone if possible

Can you kindly help me with evaluating my choices and their prices? If they are indeed worth the price tags, if not please provide me with your estimated best prices. Any pros and cons for each diamond would be helpful as well.

Thank you so much.
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
40,198
Well, for someone who claims their priority is cut you have posted precious little that verifies that. Actually from what you've posted you have no idea what constitutes excellent cut. And are focusing instead on color and clarity.

Please read below. You need some basic information.

Round Diamonds 101:

The entire purpose of faceting a diamond is to reflect light.
How well or how poorly a diamond does this determines how beautiful it is.
How well a diamond performs is determined by the angles and cutting. This is why we say cut is king.
No other factor: not color, not clarity has as much of an impact on the appearance of a diamond as its cut. An ideal H will out white a poorly cut F. With round diamonds even a GIA triple Excellent is not enough. And you must stick to GIA and AGS only (HPD in Europe is good as well). EGL is a bad option: [URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/egl-certification-are-any-of-them-ok.142863/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/egl-certification-are-any-of-them-ok.142863/[/URL]
So how to we ensure that we have the right angles and cutting to get the light performance we want?
https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/diamond-cut
Well one method is to start with a GIA Ex, and then apply the HCA to it. YOU DO NOT USE HCA for AGS0 stones generally, though you can. In general, AGS0 trumps HCA though as one examines the actual stone and the other does not.
https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/holloway-cut-advisor
The HCA is a rejection tool. Not a selection tool. It uses 4 data points to make a rudimentary call on how the diamond may perform.
If the diamond passes then you know that you are in the right zone in terms of angles for light performance. Under 2 is a pass. Under 2.5-2.1 is a maybe. 2.6 and over is a no. No score 2 and under is better than any other.
Is that enough? Not really.


So what you need is a way to check actual light performance of your actual stone.
That's what an idealscope image does. https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/firescope-idealscope
It shows you how and wear your diamond is reflecting light, how well it is going at it, and where you are losing light return. That is why you won't see us recommending Blue Nile, as they do not provide idealscope images for their diamonds. BGD,BE, James Allen, GOG, HPD, ERD and WF do.

The Idealscope is the 'selection tool'. Not the HCA.
So yes, with a GIA stone you need the idealscope images. Or you can buy an idealscope yourself and take it in to the jeweler you are working with to check the stones yourself. Or if you have a good return policy (full refund minimum 7 days) then you can buy the idealscope, buy the stone, and do it at home.

Now if you want to skip all that... stick to AGS0 stones and then all you have to do is pick color and clarity and you know you have a great performing diamond. Because AGS has already done the checking for you. That's why they trade at a premium. Some AGS0's are better than others though, so pay attention to any ASET or IS provided.

In general with rounds, you will want a table 60% or less. A depth between 59 and 62.4. Crown angle 33.5-35. Pavilion Angle: 40.6-40.8 (there is a little give on this). And the crown and pavilion angles must be complimentary which is what the HCA checks for you.

ON COLOR:

It is important to remember is that color is graded FACE DOWN. Where there is NO light return. Not face up where there is light return and refraction. You wear diamonds set. FACE UP.

Within one color grade, even the labs can't agree on the color grades of stones and something could be a "high" H or a "low" E. So... Can you tell two diamonds of equal cut apart once set if they are within one color grade. Not really. That's why when you get a three stone you can easily do G sides for an F stone or vice versa. Within 2 color grades it is hard to tell them apart. Not impossible. But very hard. And it gets harder once set. If you are talking ideal rounds, or any stone with ideal light return and no sharp corners it gets harder still because the ideal light return masks body color. Keep in mind you wear diamonds alone on your hand once set, face up. And even if there are sidestones you stay within 2 color grades.

Generally we say to be conservative stay above H in a round. But MANY people have happily bought white I or even J diamonds when trying to eek out a little more size.

This is how I think of it.

Ever gotten one of those HUGE paint fan decks? Where there are literally 100s of colors of whites? And when they are RIGHT next to each other you can TOTALLY tell that one is bluer/colder and one is a bit warmer and which one is one is TOTALLY warmer. One there's one that's slightly greener. One that's slightly pinker? But really. They are all white?

Then you pick one after agonizing over this white or that white and when it's on the walls and people are like: Oh. You painted again. And it's STILL white. Great.

And you're all... BUT it's BLUE white. Or it's a WARM white now. It used to be ____ white. It's TOTALLY different.

It's like that. You are talking about shades of white. D is colder... J is warmer. But it's all white.

YES. If you have an accurately graded F and an H THAT HAVE THE SAME PERFORMANCE you are going to be able to tell them apart when you compare them. Just like you would be able to tell if you painted your walls a warm white, but painted the crown molding a cold/straight white. But both are STILL white.


I want you notice all the qualifiers thought. I'm talking about stones with the SAME performance. An ideal H will out white an F that has compromised light performance from a poor cut.

NOTHING impacts the appearance of a diamond as much as cut. CUT is king.

You want the shinest whitest and brightest diamond out there: Cut is King. No other factor, not color or clarity or anything else impacts how white bright an shiny a stone is.

ON CLARITY:
http://www.goodoldgold.com/4Cs/Clarity/SI/ and http://www.goodoldgold.com/4Cs/Clarity/VS/ Generally we say that eyeclean SI1 and VS2 are as high as you need to go with round brilliants, have your vendor check the diamond for this. VS1 will always be eyeclean, but they do cost more and an eyeclean SI1 and a VS1 will look the same to the unaided eye. A VS1 and an IF will look the same to the naked eye and even with a loupe VS1 inclusions can be hard to find. In most cases, excluding cultural preferences, anything above VS1 is a waste of money.
 

ADN

Shiny_Rock
Trade
Joined
Nov 24, 2015
Messages
311
hanhan|1457497343|4001908 said:
...and my lady would like a bigger stone if possible

Thank you so much.
Hey mate - just something to consider - if carat size is important to your partner, you might want to think about dropping a bit in colour & clarity to maybe the G/H VS2/SI1 range - - with your budget, you should be able to get well over the 1ct mark, and you'll be able to get a really nice eye clean stone that will face up nice and bright without colour affecting the diamond - - and like Gypsy mentioned, cut plays a big role in how much fire & scintillation a diamond will throw out, so make sure you get one with some balanced specs - other PS members here can guide you on what they consider a nice cut (I'm in the trade so I can't really comment).
Hope this helps
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
40,198
Less tired today. More patience so I revisited this post.

You have a GREAT budget and if you settle for one of those stones, frankly you'll be throwing it away. Especially if your lady wants size. Because you can give her that with very little compromise. And get amazing cut too.

Here's what I would recommend in your budget:
www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/1.20-carat-g-color-vs2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku- Ask for an idealscope image as there isn't one posted.

http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/1.35-carat-h-color-si1-clarity-ideal-cut-sku-872697 Should be perfectly eyeclean.
 

hanhan

Rough_Rock
Joined
Mar 8, 2016
Messages
6
Gypsy said:
Less tired today. More patience so I revisited this post.

You have a GREAT budget and if you settle for one of those stones, frankly you'll be throwing it away. Especially if your lady wants size. Because you can give her that with very little compromise. And get amazing cut too.

Here's what I would recommend in your budget:
www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/1.20-carat-g-color-vs2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku- Ask for an idealscope image as there isn't one posted.

http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/1.35-carat-h-color-si1-clarity-ideal-cut-sku-872697 Should be perfectly eyeclean.
Hi Gypsy. Thank you so much for all your insight. It has been merely a few days for me to catch up on what things to notice and all. At least now I know what to look for in a cut.

I will look at those stones you recommended. Thank you :)
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
40,198
:wavey:
 

hanhan

Rough_Rock
Joined
Mar 8, 2016
Messages
6
Gypsy|1457599543|4002464 said:
Hi Gypsy,

My partner and I finally went to a diamond store. I know buying from brick and mortar business would draw higher prices. At least this way, I had the chance to see the physical item. And she insisted to see the item and thus, we decided to do so.

Can you help me evaluate this diamond before I make the payment?

Diamond size: 1.01 carat (6.48 - 6.49 x 3.93mm)
Colour: E
Clarity: VS2 and eye clean
Cut, Polish and Symmetry: Excellent
Fluorescence: None

Depth: 60.7%
Table: 58%
Crown angle: 34.0
Crown height: 14.0%
Pavilion angle: 40.6
Pavilion depth: 43%
Girdle: Medium to slightly thick faceted / 3.5%
Culet: None

Price: 10k USD

The ASET image looks excellent with minimum light leakage. And it has perfect hearts and arrows. Is this price good enough? If this is too high, what would be reasonable price for diamond of this spec (or similar)?

Spec-wise, this is very similar to James Allen diamond. http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/1.02-carat-e-color-vs2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-983051
 
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