Seattle Elementary teachers to wear BLM t-shirts in class

[Dancing Fire]

Re: Seattle Elementary teachers to wear BLM t-shirts in clas

Despite what Fox News might tell you, the fact that it's 2016 and black citizens are still being gunned down by police officers in broad daylight does not jive with the notion that we are really striving for equality as a people. You believe that a group of people shouldn't have the audacity to say "BLACK lives matter." That is a problem. The fact that you'd sue over it because it bruises your white privilege? Meh. Laughable at best.

Guess I have yellow privilege b/c a white cop haven't gun me down yet. White COPs must love my yellow skin. Get serious!...

 

[OreoRosies86]

Re: Seattle Elementary teachers to wear BLM t-shirts in clas

Despite what Fox News might tell you, the fact that it's 2016 and black citizens are still being gunned down by police officers in broad daylight does not jive with the notion that we are really striving for equality as a people. You believe that a group of people shouldn't have the audacity to say "BLACK lives matter." That is a problem. The fact that you'd sue over it because it bruises your white privilege? Meh. Laughable at best.

Guess I have yellow privilege b/c a white cop haven't gun me down yet. White COPs must love my yellow skin. Get serious!...

I'm very serious, DF. Maybe it's time for you to get serious as well?

 

[Tekate]

Re: Seattle Elementary teachers to wear BLM t-shirts in clas

http://insider.foxnews.com/2016/09/14/elementary-school-teachers-wear-black-lives-matter-shirts-class

"Whitney said she wanted to start a discussion about race, particularly why people of color have higher incarceration rates and lower college graduation rates."

Really?

At an age when kids should be learning ABCs, addition/subtraction, and how to get along with others on the playground regardless of color ... instead, we're going to let young non-black children READ that their life doesn't matter because their teacher's shirt excludes them. Way to teach kids NOT to see color by highlighting that very thing.


And the school is supporting it! UFB!

I would pull my kid, and file a discrimination suit faster than they can write "BLM" on the whiteboard.

Are you kidding? white kids will feel bad because there isn't a shirt with white lives matter? really? just by being white they are judged better, smarter, because they are the majority they rule.. I had no idea black kids were killed by cops the way I see now, the videos, stories, all blacks mistrust cops, maybe if they put on their shirts Black Lives Matter TOO! If my kids went to this school I'd go in and work with the teachers to try and help my little white boys that this isn't what we want for our future, black kids shot in the back. I commend this school.

 

[Tekate]

Re: Seattle Elementary teachers to wear BLM t-shirts in clas

I have a "Asian lives matter" T shirt...

Not all Asians feel the way you do. http://everydayfeminism.com/2016/06/racism-against-asian-americans/

If this were 1942 you might feel a little differently about what lives matter.

 

[Tekate]

Re: Seattle Elementary teachers to wear BLM t-shirts in clas

http://www.christianpost.com/news/ri-school-to-remove-prayer-banner-after-atheist-teen-wins-lawsuit-67067/


And what about this? A plaque that stood for 50 years taken down because one student did not feel included?

Why did her parents feel the need to sue? And yes it came out they were behind it not their daughter.

And by the way I am not Catholic.

This happened because: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_Exercise_Clause

The government is the school, had a plaque up and the family felt as though the school was supporting a religion, not allowed with public money. Quite simple really.

 

[Arcadian]

Re: Seattle Elementary teachers to wear BLM t-shirts in clas

As a black woman, I'm seeing a lot of offensive sh*t in this thread.

Please take it down a notch folks.

 

[Niel]

Re: Seattle Elementary teachers to wear BLM t-shirts in clas

Black lives do matter. Clearly not enough people know that.

Wish they'd wear shirts like that St my daughter's school.

Good for them.

 

[Tekate]

Re: Seattle Elementary teachers to wear BLM t-shirts in clas

As a black woman, I'm seeing a lot of offensive sh*t in this thread.

Please take it down a notch folks.

Arcadian, I apologize if I offended you, I have strong held beliefs, I recognize I am passionate. Peace.

 

[momhappy]

Re: Seattle Elementary teachers to wear BLM t-shirts in clas

I think that if the specific school has a policy that no on is allowed to wear shirts or tees with a slogan on them everyone should follow that. If they are allowed to wear shirts or tees with slogans without profanity on them (which is the case in some schools) then I don't see why those shirts cannot be the basis as a starting point for a civilised discussion. No-one should feel the need to sue anyone, you should instead know as I pointed out above it is not teaching anything that children's books, children's novels and in fact units of work that deal with issues of race and discrimination don't already cover. Just like some schools teach religion as part of their day, and some do not. It depends on school policy.

I've never understood why white people find BLM tees offensive they were NEVER meant to be, their message black peoples lives matter as much as everyone else not more than. Children can't celebrate or learn about Christmas because that offends some people. If that is all you have to feel offended by or worry about in your life, maybe it's time to get over it.....

I agree with this.
For me, this is about dress code policy. If a school is going to have a dress code policy that limits clothing, then BLM t-shirts would likely fall into that category. If a school had a policy that clothing should not interfere with learning (and I'm not saying that particular elementary school does), then teachers/staff should be included. Obviously, they are making a statement and that's the where distraction comes into play. Just because it might be considered a good distraction (sparking a much-needed dialogue about race, etc.), doesn't make it ok if it violates a dress code policy. And just because some of us might feel this isn't appropriate in a school with a dress code policy, it doesn't mean that we don't acknowledge racial issues (I acknowledge issues and understand the need for improvement). This is about a shirt that is intended to send a message and I would consider that a disruption to learning. I read one news story that said that the school was expecting (and was currently dealing with) a fair amount of backlash. And again, I am not offended by a BLM shirt and I don't think this has anything to do with white kids feeling like they their lives don't matter (I understand the concept of BLM).
This would also be a safety concern for me (as a parent). I question whether or not it's wise to potentially jeopardize children's safety because you can't predict how everyone will respond/react. What if someone decides to send their own "message" in response to the shirts? Depending on the backlash, I might be hesitant to send my kids to school that day. Schools have enough problems trying to keep kids safe. They couldn't possibly expect that the response would be all positive, so why in the world would you put a young child potentially at risk for some sort of negative response/reaction? I'm not saying that anything bad is going to happen, but part of keeping kids safe in school is eliminating certain risks and hazards. These BLM shirts actually add a certain amount of risk and that's what's really concerning to me.

 

[the_mother_thing]

Re: Seattle Elementary teachers to wear BLM t-shirts in clas

I've never understood why white people find BLM tees offensive they were NEVER meant to be, their message black peoples lives matter as much as everyone else not more than. Children can't celebrate or learn about Christmas because that offends some people. If that is all you have to feel offended by or worry about in your life, maybe it's time to get over it.....

Personally, I really do not care what someone chooses to wear or what movement they choose to support; that's their business, until you attempt to influence someone else's opinion on the matter (in this case, children, in PUBLIC school), in which case, parents' feelings DO come into play. After all, everyone likes to point the finger at parents when their little ones do wrong, so they deserve a say in this.

I feel teachers wearing this shirt creates unfairness because if a child or teacher wore a "white lives matter" shirt or wanted to discuss what they may feel are the merits of the KKK (mind you, I don't), that child or teacher would face punishment, be forced to change their clothes, be labeled a racist, etc.

The statement on the shirt is "Black Lives Matter"; not "Black Lives Matter, TOO". And like it or not, especially around THIS topic, WORDS matter! Had this 'movement' instead chose a more inclusive slogan for their concerns, such as "All Lives Matter", I'd be far more supportive and totally okay with this in school because then it includes everyone vs promoting divisiveness by singling out only one group based on race. THAT would bring everyone together, make everyone feel included and part of the discussion that is needed to promote understanding and respect from ALL sides. We are NOT - as a society - going to advance in any racial division until we stop segregating ourselves when it suits our individual causes. If you REALLY want to be united, then UNITE. If you REALLY want to be included, then include ALL.

And again, I go back to the fact that this is a public school; not a private school or after-school program or a gathering on the mall. The slogan creates divisiveness based on race, which is not permitted, whereas "All Lives Matter" does NOT discriminate.

So the policies to my knowledge are shirts and tees with no slogans at all or they allow them to wear ones without profanity. A BLM shirt doesn't count as profanity.

If I was banned from wearing a BLM shirt I'd probably get one that said Cats lives matter and then tell the kids why I got banned from wearing the other shirt. So you see banning them probably doesn't stop the basis for a discussion.

"BLM" isn't profanity; it's divisive based on race. But I'd love a "cat lives matter" shirt.

Despite what Fox News might tell you, the fact that it's 2016 and black citizens are still being gunned down by police officers in broad daylight does not jive with the notion that we are really striving for equality as a people. You believe that a group of people shouldn't have the audacity to say "BLACK lives matter." That is a problem. The fact that you'd sue over it because it bruises your white privilege? Meh. Laughable at best.

Your generalization about blacks being gunned down by police with NO regard to the reasons WHY they were gunned down is ... "laughable at best", to use your words, and a poor argument without evaluating the facts of EACH case. Perhaps these teachers should also consider educating kids about the need to follow laws and respect police officers when they finish their history lesson on race.

But more importantly to me personally - your insinuation that I have "white privilege" ... without knowing squat about me except that I happen to be white is extremely offensive, judgemental, and utterly ignorant on your part. You should be ashamed of yourself! It demonstrates that you can't be respectful without hurling racial slurs yourself. Hypocrite much?

Funny you post that after your own racial slurs AT ME falsely alleging my "white privilege" in this thread. Talk about offensive, not to mention pretty hypocritical from someone who claims to want an end to that behavior.

The pledge? You mean the one that ends in "... WITH LIBERTY & JUSTICE FOR ALL"? Yea, that sure is some oppressive language right there.

 

[the_mother_thing]

Re: Seattle Elementary teachers to wear BLM t-shirts in clas

Black lives do matter. Clearly not enough people know that.

NO ONE is saying Black lives DON'T matter (that I've read). I'm saying EVERYONE'S life matters, and we need to treat EVERYONE fairly, as should this school. And I feel they are crossing a legal line with this plan.

As a black woman, I'm seeing a lot of offensive sh*t in this thread.

Please take it down a notch folks.

I'm sorry, Arcadian. That certainly is not MY intent, and I've been directly targeted in this thread with racially offensive comments as well; it's absolutely unnecessary and inappropriate.


My goal with sharing this story was to highlight the appearance of divisiveness from another side of this 'debate', and discuss solutions that truly include EVERYONE equally. There has to be a better way of teaching kids that doesn't inadvertently make others feel excluded and/or potentially cross legal lines with regard to discrimination.

 

[arkieb1]

Re: Seattle Elementary teachers to wear BLM t-shirts in clas

I think what the people in this thread are trying to point out to you is that saying it's not fair for people to go around wearing shirts that say black lives matter in schools, because white people's lives matter just as much is erroneous, the BLM movement came about because lots of black lives are being needlessly lost, black people experience discrimination every single day of their lives in a way most white people and their children do not and never will fully comprehend.

I think it would be great when you reach a day where people don't need to wear shirts that say black lives matter, because black people are not being discriminated against, needlessly shot, pulled over or incorrectly targeted by anyone because of the colour of their skin. Until that day comes, if a few teachers wear the shirts and get kids thinking how we can all stop discrimination and reach that point, I too applaud that.

And I don't buy this stuff that it's so distracting for the kids, seriously it's the media and the parents that are no doubt mainly responsible for the publicity surrounding it. And I also don't buy this bulls@#* that is reverse discrimination either which is what you seem to be arguing. YES all lives matter, but the truth is some minority groups bring up children in environments of fear and discrimination, so until everyone can live without worrying about their young men being gunned down or arrested simply because they were in the wrong place at the wrong time, (which would lead to less police being needlessly shot or harmed as well) then we should all be in favour of more tolerance.

Teachers do that, they teach us, they lead us with ideas, I'd argue that some of the best ones teach us life lessons, not just about reading, writing, maths and so on, so in this case rather than attacking them for leaving out white kids, for reverse discrimination, for creating what some of you see as non valuable distractions, if just one teacher makes one kid think about the way they treat the person next to them irrespective of race or religion and to be tolerate and respectful to them, then we should all wear the shirts.

 

[the_mother_thing]

Re: Seattle Elementary teachers to wear BLM t-shirts in clas

Arkie - I respect your opinion and perspective, and I think our 'end goal' is the same even if we have differing ideas about how and what we feel is appropriate to 'get there'. I agree that it's a passionate topic from all perspectives for a lot of reasons.


My only remaining thought (collectively) is this: Just because we don't agree on something, doesn't make one person/side 'right' and the other 'wrong'. My perception about these topics in Hangout (and why I come and go from them) is that if you don't agree with the majority, you're "wrong", or labeled a racist, uneducated, privileged, deplorable, etc., and that's a shame because it's disrespectful & doesn't foster the open discussion & dialogue that is needed to create understanding and mutual respect. We're all entitled to feel how we feel about something. Discussing it respectfully will open people's eyes on both sides of the discussion a lot better than hurling judgemental insults.

The "white privilege" accusation tossed at me by Elliot is truly offensive to me, considering he/she has zero idea just how UNprivileged a life I was raised in and the things I experienced and faced growing up. Those types of assumptions and accusations are hurtful - and when race is attached to it, there's no "reverse"; it's just flat out discriminatory.

 

[Niel]

Re: Seattle Elementary teachers to wear BLM t-shirts in clas

You go out to dinner with 6 of your friends
You order and wait.
The waitress comes and serves your 6 friends food but not you.
You say "I deserve food"
One od your friends replies "everyone deserves food"


That's black lives matter.

 

[Rhea]

Re: Seattle Elementary teachers to wear BLM t-shirts in clas

My elementary school was a mixed education level one with some students who were on a level that as pre-teens (older than us by some years) they were being taught basic life skills such as counting change, cooking basic meals, polite interaction with others, and traffic safety. As students (I was at that school from age 6-9) we were required to learn how to interact with this group, ask if and how they needed help rather than assume, and to treat them as individuals who were valued and valuable members of society. The take away lesson was that their, these handicapped kids, lives mattered. Not that ours didn't. Every other day of the week our little self-absorbed, able-bodied and able-minded classes went on as normal, but stopping to learn how to interact with them during these lessons didn't hurt us one bit. Over 25 years later and I still hold those lessons dear and flash back to them when necessary, they shaped me for the better for ever. Never once did I think their lives mattered more than mine from these lessons. I think that's a helicopter parent thought.

This is the same type of thing. A minority is being discriminated against and it's never too early to teach kids and ask them to stop and think about the human on the other end of their actions, words, and even worse sometimes, inaction.

 

[momhappy]

Re: Seattle Elementary teachers to wear BLM t-shirts in clas

And I don't believe that it would be soooooooo distracting for kids either, but, if a school has a dress code policy that restricts potentially distracting clothing items, then if a BLM t-shirt could be a potential distraction, then it shouldn't be allowed. But again, that's not as big of a concern as the potential safety concerns I mentioned earlier.

 

[the_mother_thing]

Re: Seattle Elementary teachers to wear BLM t-shirts in clas

You go out to dinner with 6 of your friends
You order and wait.
The waitress comes and serves your 6 friends food but not you.
You say "I deserve food"
One od your friends replies "everyone deserves food"


That's black lives matter.

You'd both be right, IMO.

Why were you not served food? Is it because she could only fit 6 plates on her tray and needed to go back for the last one; because she or the kitchen made a mistake and forgot one of the meals; perhaps yours needed another minute or two on the grill to cook properly?

Assuming everyone has poor intentions, is out to get you, and that everything is about 'race' is also part of the problem. Sometimes, crap just happens, people make mistakes, and there's really no ill will attached. That's called "life", and it doesn't discriminate.

 

[the_mother_thing]

Re: Seattle Elementary teachers to wear BLM t-shirts in clas

My elementary school was a mixed education level one with some students who were on a level that as pre-teens (older than us by some years) they were being taught basic life skills such as counting change, cooking basic meals, polite interaction with others, and traffic safety. As students (I was at that school from age 6-9) we were required to learn how to interact with this group, ask if and how they needed help rather than assume, and to treat them as individuals who were valued and valuable members of society. The take away lesson was that their, these handicapped kids, lives mattered. Not that ours didn't. Every other day of the week our little self-absorbed, able-bodied and able-minded classes went on as normal, but stopping to learn how to interact with them during these lessons didn't hurt us one bit. Over 25 years later and I still hold those lessons dear and flash back to them when necessary, they shaped me for the better for ever. Never once did I think their lives mattered more than mine from these lessons. I think that's a helicopter parent thought.

This is the same type of thing. A minority is being discriminated against and it's never too early to teach kids and ask them to stop and think about the human on the other end of their actions, words, and even worse sometimes, inaction.

That is an absolutely beautiful way to go about teaching the lesson! And your example drives home the exact point I was trying to make - there are ways to teach lessons about inclusion without appearing to exclude anyone in the process.

I can't convey enough that I don't ask this question with sarcasm (disclaimer b/c on the internet, it'd be easy enough to assume it is): did anyone wear a t-shirt that said "Handicapped Lives Matter" to convey that lesson?

My guess is 'no'.

 

[Niel]

Re: Seattle Elementary teachers to wear BLM t-shirts in clas

You go out to dinner with 6 of your friends
You order and wait.
The waitress comes and serves your 6 friends food but not you.
You say "I deserve food"
One od your friends replies "everyone deserves food"


That's black lives matter.

You'd both be right, IMO.

Why were you not served food? Is it because she could only fit 6 plates on her tray and needed to go back for the last one; because she or the kitchen made a mistake and forgot one of the meals; perhaps yours needed another minute or two on the grill to cook properly?

Assuming everyone has poor intentions, is out to get you, and that everything is about 'race' is also part of the problem. Sometimes, crap just happens, people make mistakes, and there's really no ill will attached. That's called "life", and it doesn't discriminate.

If you don't get it you don't get it.

 

[chrono]

Re: Seattle Elementary teachers to wear BLM t-shirts in clas

I've had something similar happen to our family at a very popular local eatery. We were waiting for our table but the hostess kept seating everyone except us, made more obvious when customers who just came in were seated first, time after time. It was so obvious to the point that other customers had to tell her we were there first. Guess that's "life" too. We are non-whites in an almost 100% white town. She never made eye contact with us, walking past us to greet the other customers. Must have been so busy that she never saw us standing there.

 

[the_mother_thing]

Re: Seattle Elementary teachers to wear BLM t-shirts in clas

If you don't get it you don't get it.

I get your example just fine.

Your scenario equates and 'justifies' BLM with 'assumptions'. I like to understand the facts & underlying causes of each situation before making a determination, and get to the root of those problems to effect change.

"People Vary" as Kenny says.

 

[the_mother_thing]

Re: Seattle Elementary teachers to wear BLM t-shirts in clas

I've had something similar happen to our family at a very popular local eatery. We were waiting for our table but the hostess kept seating everyone except us, made more obvious when customers who just came in were seated first, time after time. It was so obvious to the point that other customers had to tell her we were there first. Guess that's "life" too. We are non-whites in an almost 100% white town. She never made eye contact with us, walking past us to greet the other customers. Must have been so busy that she never saw us standing there.

That is unfortunate, and I'm sorry that happened to your family. I hope you addressed it with the manager.

But to clarify, that's not what I meant by "that's life". I meant "crap happens" ... accidents, oversights, mistakes. They are not always racially motivated or intentional.

 

[Niel]

Re: Seattle Elementary teachers to wear BLM t-shirts in clas

If you don't get it you don't get it.

I get your example just fine.

Your scenario equates and 'justifies' BLM with 'assumptions'. I like to understand the facts & underlying causes of each situation before making a determination, and get to the root of those problems to effect change.

"People Vary" as Kenny says.

No my example was to illustrate the difference between BLM and all lives matter.

The all lives matter movement is the person who gets food. They are the people who have the food and saying they deserve food isn't necessary. They already have it.

BLM are the people without food. They deserve food as equally as everyone else. But they don't currently have it.

Replace food with respect for their life and governmental injustice

 

[Rhea]

Re: Seattle Elementary teachers to wear BLM t-shirts in clas

My elementary school was a mixed education level one with some students who were on a level that as pre-teens (older than us by some years) they were being taught basic life skills such as counting change, cooking basic meals, polite interaction with others, and traffic safety. As students (I was at that school from age 6-9) we were required to learn how to interact with this group, ask if and how they needed help rather than assume, and to treat them as individuals who were valued and valuable members of society. The take away lesson was that their, these handicapped kids, lives mattered. Not that ours didn't. Every other day of the week our little self-absorbed, able-bodied and able-minded classes went on as normal, but stopping to learn how to interact with them during these lessons didn't hurt us one bit. Over 25 years later and I still hold those lessons dear and flash back to them when necessary, they shaped me for the better for ever. Never once did I think their lives mattered more than mine from these lessons. I think that's a helicopter parent thought.

This is the same type of thing. A minority is being discriminated against and it's never too early to teach kids and ask them to stop and think about the human on the other end of their actions, words, and even worse sometimes, inaction.

That is an absolutely beautiful way to go about teaching the lesson! And your example drives home the exact point I was trying to make - there are ways to teach lessons about inclusion without appearing to exclude anyone in the process.

I can't convey enough that I don't ask this question with sarcasm (disclaimer b/c on the internet, it'd be easy enough to assume it is): did anyone wear a t-shirt that said "Handicapped Lives Matter" to convey that lesson?

My guess is 'no'.

No, t-shirts weren't cheap then. The point is the same, we were taught about an excluded minority, by teachers, using methods and instruments to get our attention. While no t-shirts were worn, one of us went around in a wheelchair all day, another on crutches or in leg braces, etc. As times, and the lessons, were slightly different those instruments were the ones that got our attention. I'm certain going black face to make a point wouldn't be looked kindly upon. If we're taking your example of my example that's exactly what the teachers would be doing.

 

[the_mother_thing]

Re: Seattle Elementary teachers to wear BLM t-shirts in clas

No my example was to illustrate the difference between BLM and all lives matter.

The all lives matter movement is the person who gets food. They are the people who have the food and saying they deserve food isn't necessary. They already have it.

BLM are the people without food. They deserve food as equally as everyone else. But they don't currently have it.

Replace food with respect for their life and governmental injustice

Thank you for clarifying; I do understand your point. But how do you work toward fixing a problem when you don't know what exactly is the cause/s? You have to explore causes to arrive at solutions that will solve the problem. Sometimes those causes are EXACTLY what they appear; and, sometimes they're not.

 

[smitcompton]

Re: Seattle Elementary teachers to wear BLM t-shirts in clas

Hi,

The public school is exactly where this shirt belongs. My hat is off to those teachers who care. Sitting down while the National Anthem plays is a non-violent way of taking a stand. This movement is not about white Lives. nor does it have to be.

My son still remembers when we integrated our local school in New York. He was in first grade and only a handful of white children attended school that day. I admit, I was proud of myself and he remembers. He is also a supporter of Black Lives Matter. I don't know how you can't be.

Annette

 

[the_mother_thing]

Re: Seattle Elementary teachers to wear BLM t-shirts in clas

No, t-shirts weren't cheap then. The point is the same, we were taught about an excluded minority, by teachers, using methods and instruments to get our attention. While no t-shirts were worn, one of us went around in a wheelchair all day, another on crutches or in leg braces, etc. As times, and the lessons, were slightly different those instruments were the ones that got our attention. I'm certain going black face to make a point wouldn't be looked kindly upon. If we're taking your example of my example that's exactly what the teachers would be doing.

That is absolutely NOT what I was suggesting, and I'm absolutely puzzled that you somehow inferred that from my complimenting your story.

We are talking about elementary aged children here (in this Seattle school). There are ways of teaching acceptance, equality, respect, etc. to elementary aged kids. It happens in the classroom with stories about diversity, team-building exercises, on the playground, etc., and there needs to be oversight to applaud and reward proper behavior as well as punishment when kids do not demonstrate the proper behavior.

I have about a half dozen teachers in my family (mostly K-6), and they successfully incorporate these things in their classrooms all the time, without wearing clothing or hanging signs that exclude some of the kids in the class.

 

[telephone89]

Re: Seattle Elementary teachers to wear BLM t-shirts in clas

I didn't know everyone shouting "save the rainforest!" was actually shouting "chop down every other forest!"

Saying "black lives matter means non black lives DONT matter" Um, not true. Saying you like chicken isn't saying you hate beef. Just because one thing gets more attention during this time doesn't mean that other things don't matter.

also - how fu*king selfish/white privilege is it to turn something about black people into something about whites haha. Seriously, do people not see the irony?!

 

[telephone89]

Re: Seattle Elementary teachers to wear BLM t-shirts in clas

I like this comic to explain blm to people who think its exclusionary.

 

[kenny]

Re: Seattle Elementary teachers to wear BLM t-shirts in clas

Good comic Telephone.
The problem is reason itself has been flushed out of many people today.

It is futile to reason with them.