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SEARCHING FOR RAINBOWS AND PERFECTION IN AN IMPERFECT WORLD

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arjunajane

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well said Jeff!
 

Lorelei

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Fantastic article - bravo Jeff!
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Deelight

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That was really nicely put :)
 

neatfreak

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Bravo Jeff. Wonderfully written.
 

strmrdr

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Nice article but my position is hold their feet to the fire and they will try harder to not mess up.
Being fair while doing it which you do address is good and from that angle I agree.
 

purrfectpear

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Clear and succinct. I automatically discount ALL vents and rants that do not state there were at least two phone calls in an attempt to resolve. Customers who say things like "I was too angry" or "I was afraid" are not making much sense when they come on PS and expect us, their fellow consumers to fix the problem. Calm your anger, face your "fear" and speak to the vendor who CAN resolve the problem. When you''ve failed to come to a satisfactory resolution, then is the time to post.
 

Regular Guy

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Thanks, Jeff, nice to hear more from you, and read more about you.

I have mixed feelings, as a bystander. I say as a bystander...because as I had minor vendor problems, I just worked them out, and had the thought that I would report on them after it was worked out...since to do otherwise would be to Heisenberg them.

But enough about me. What do you think of me.

No...really....I guess that...although Pricescope is an environment where business and the public come together...it is also more primarily a consumer vehicle. That said...I'm sort of sympathetic to using it for girlfriends to talk to each other...sort of in their pajamas. After a bad situation happens on Friday...maybe they want to talk about it over the weekend to help them think what they think.

Problem is...yes...some thousands of people do read this as lurkers, etc.

Nevertheless...with the principle that the sun shining on things takes care of problems...with a sort of journalistic attitude of...let truth work itself out...I find Pricescope interesting...I suppose interesting frequently enough as entertainment, watching opinions evolve...even over the weekend.

But you've got to know, you're engaging Heisenberg. That is...by asking your Pricescope friends if so & so really did you wrong...you can't know what would have happened if you just tried to do the work on your own. This latter case is just...at least different. The chances, by engaging your friends, may be greater that you will ultimately get what you want. But you should then be less able to either recommend them or dis them objectively...because you really have brought this under substantive public scrutiny...and it's hard to say how they would treat the next, ordinary guy or girl, who would not have engaged the Pricescope community.

To me...that's the real reason to be patient, and allow the process to work itself out, if possible.
 

lovinsparkles

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Interesting to hear from a non-consumer's point of view. I agree, everyone (vendors, customers, posters) can probably benefit from the reminder to be civil and courteous.

I am sure it is frustrating to hear a customer's version of a story that you disagree with. That is the beauty of the board -- you may come and post your version too, and others will get to determine who to believe based on both sets of facts.

I do think consumers should be free to post negative experiences as often as they deem necessary. Vendors certainly get plenty of supportive posts as well. If that's all that was permitted, this wouldn't be anything more than another advertising channel, rather than an informational forum that provides some value to the consumer, too. Often the vendor holds much of the power after a transaction has occurred (i.e. they have the money well before the consumer has the final product). A public platform to air grievances helps ensure that everyone still tries their best, even after the money changes hands.

I wouldn't worry too much about search engine archiving. The numbers will tell the truth -- if you have tons of satisfied customers posting, a bad egg or two won't spoil that for anyone reviewing the boards. If you have a lot of dissatisfied customers, there may be a real problem there, and others have the right to know that.

Nobody is perfect, but attitude can go a long way in smoothing over problems.
 

Regular Guy

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Date: 11/8/2008 8:28:27 PM
Author: lovinsparkles
Interesting to hear from the vendor''s point of view.
Lovin,

Jeff does have a good seat to sit in, to have written this article. But, he''s not a vendor...he''s an appraiser.
 

lovinsparkles

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Details...
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Thanks RG! I have edited accordingly, but I think the logic is the same.
 

diagem

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Date: 11/8/2008 6:20:21 PM
Author: Regular Guy
Thanks, Jeff, nice to hear more from you, and read more about you.

I have mixed feelings, as a bystander. I say as a bystander...because as I had minor vendor problems, I just worked them out, and had the thought that I would report on them after it was worked out...since to do otherwise would be to Heisenberg them.

But enough about me. What do you think of me.

No...really....I guess that...although Pricescope is an environment where business and the public come together...it is also more primarily a consumer vehicle. That said...I''m sort of sympathetic to using it for girlfriends to talk to each other...sort of in their pajamas. After a bad situation happens on Friday...maybe they want to talk about it over the weekend to help them think what they think.

Problem is...yes...some thousands of people do read this as lurkers, etc.

Nevertheless...with the principle that the sun shining on things takes care of problems...with a sort of journalistic attitude of...let truth work itself out...I find Pricescope interesting...I suppose interesting frequently enough as entertainment, watching opinions evolve...even over the weekend.

But you''ve got to know, you''re engaging Heisenberg. That is...by asking your Pricescope friends if so & so really did you wrong...you can''t know what would have happened if you just tried to do the work on your own. This latter case is just...at least different. The chances, by engaging your friends, may be greater that you will ultimately get what you want. But you should then be less able to either recommend them or dis them objectively...because you really have brought this under substantive public scrutiny...and it''s hard to say how they would treat the next, ordinary guy or girl, who would not have engaged the Pricescope community.

To me...that''s the real reason to be patient, and allow the process to work itself out, if possible.

Nice (and strong meaningful and wise) words Regular Guy...


I always (try) to remember there are two sides to the/a coin....
On this (delicate) subject too!

As much as the vendor/professionals who advertise & participate on PriceScope enjoy the potential fruits...., so can and MUST the consumers...


Vendors have no problem (among other things) trying to lure potential clients towards their business (even on weekends or on odd off-business hours...)
Consumers should not have a problem discussing any related issue''s (negative or positive) on weekends either...

I do see where Jeff Averbook is coming from..., and I tend to agree with his good intentions:)

But..., I think its more an issue of human behaviour and perhaps ethics..., (an issue out of our control)


Both sides (consumers and [vendors] professionals) have a powerful weapon in their hands when participating here on PriceScope..., I just think “thoughts before action” must be practiced much more prior to using these weapons.


Since this is a rather large participant forum..., and we cant foresee all the members behaviors…, I always try to go by the saying:


DON’T DO TO OTHER’S WHAT YOU DON’T WANT DONE TO YOU.


 

WinkHPD

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I agree with much of what has been said here, but one comment disturbs me.

...hold their feet to the fire and they will try harder to not mess up.

If the vendor has not been given the courtesy of notification prior to holding thier feet to the fire you are by definition not living up to the last part of that paragraph.

Being fair while doing it which you do address is good and from that angle I agree.

We have all seen the situation where the vendor is literally attacked on the boards with no thought to anything other than holding that vendor hostage to getting your way. Storm has been kind enough to notify me of two threads about me in which he felt I "needed to take care of this". I appreciated his contact since it allowed me to take care of things just as I would have had I been contacted before the postings were made.

I have also had it happen to me on two other boards, once when I was in error, and once when I was not. In both cased the error was fixed as it would have been had I been contacted privately, ie. once I paid to fix the error and once I did not. Still the emotional toll to the vendor is huge, and in most cases without necessity.

Those of us who are successful vendors on the internet are so because we care and because we own our mistakes without being blackmailed into doing so. I heartily applaud Jeff''s article and if talking with your vendor does not bring immediate response then by all means bring it to the public. Common courtesy in face to face dealings would demand no less, I do not understand why dealing one to one with people on the internet should be any less polite.

Just my opinion of course, and I know it will not convince anyone who believes differntly. It is just my wish that if all would treat each other with respect then their would be less flaming until the flaming is deserved.

Wink
 

strmrdr

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Date: 11/9/2008 12:31:00 PM
Author: Wink
I agree with much of what has been said here, but one comment disturbs me.


...hold their feet to the fire and they will try harder to not mess up.


If the vendor has not been given the courtesy of notification prior to holding thier feet to the fire you are by definition not living up to the last part of that paragraph.


Being fair while doing it which you do address is good and from that angle I agree.


We have all seen the situation where the vendor is literally attacked on the boards with no thought to anything other than holding that vendor hostage to getting your way. Storm has been kind enough to notify me of two threads about me in which he felt I ''needed to take care of this''. I appreciated his contact since it allowed me to take care of things just as I would have had I been contacted before the postings were made.


I have also had it happen to me on two other boards, once when I was in error, and once when I was not. In both cased the error was fixed as it would have been had I been contacted privately, ie. once I paid to fix the error and once I did not. Still the emotional toll to the vendor is huge, and in most cases without necessity.


Those of us who are successful vendors on the internet are so because we care and because we own our mistakes without being blackmailed into doing so. I heartily applaud Jeff''s article and if talking with your vendor does not bring immediate response then by all means bring it to the public. Common courtesy in face to face dealings would demand no less, I do not understand why dealing one to one with people on the internet should be any less polite.


Just my opinion of course, and I know it will not convince anyone who believes differntly. It is just my wish that if all would treat each other with respect then their would be less flaming until the flaming is deserved.


Wink
Wink I hope my meaning is clear that the second sentence does clarify the first.
There have been a lot of cases where consumers have saw thru the blackmail attempts and came down on the vendors side also.
I always try to figure out what exactly the problem is then suggest how to fix it.
9 times out of 10 a that can be fixed calms things down.
Most of the time people are just looking for a little sympathy and a little reassurance.
Dealing with expensive items long distance gets scary in a hurry when something goes wrong.
 

WinkHPD

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Date: 11/9/2008 12:47:01 PM
Author: strmrdr

Wink I hope my meaning is clear that the second sentence does clarify the first.
There have been a lot of cases where consumers have saw thru the blackmail attempts and came down on the vendors side also.
I always try to figure out what exactly the problem is then suggest how to fix it.
9 times out of 10 a that can be fixed calms things down.
Most of the time people are just looking for a little sympathy and a little reassurance.
Dealing with expensive items long distance gets scary in a hurry when something goes wrong.
Agreed.

Of course as a vendor, I am foresquare on the side that says we deserve a chance to fix it first. If we fail, then I expect our feet to be only one of the parts that gets scorched!

Wink
 

Garry H (Cut Nut)

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Date: 11/9/2008 1:31:29 PM
Author: Wink

Agreed.

Of course as a vendor, I am foresquare on the side that says we deserve a chance to fix it first. If we fail, then I expect our feet to be only one of the parts that gets scorched!

Wink
29.gif

OH-HOOO what a picture that painted in my devious mind!!!

Great article Jeff.
 

WinkHPD

Ideal_Rock
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Date: 11/9/2008 6:45:13 PM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)

Date: 11/9/2008 1:31:29 PM
Author: Wink

Agreed.

Of course as a vendor, I am foresquare on the side that says we deserve a chance to fix it first. If we fail, then I expect our feet to be only one of the parts that gets scorched!

Wink
29.gif

OH-HOOO what a picture that painted in my devious mind!!!

Great article Jeff.

LOL! If I know you I am hearing the humming of Bing Crosby or someone of his era singing "Chestnuts roasting on an Open Fire".

Wink
 
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