Sapphires - Attempts 2, 3, and 4 - Pic Overload!!!

[endless_summer]

Hey guys!!!

I'm about to overload you with pics because I've just received 3 different sapphire rings and am trying to decide which to keep, if any. I'd love to hear your thoughts and opinions - I'm not afraid of making returns, and you guys helped me avoid one potential not-the-best choice, so I would greatly appreciate your honesty again here.

Here are the choices - from independent appraisals, left to right in the three ring shots:

3.4 carat square light violetish blue sapphire (95 blue, 5 violet) with very slightly grey saturation, eye clean, very good cut, symmetry, polish, very low heat

3.3 carat pear medium-dark violetish blue sapphire (90 blue, 10 violet) with moderately strong saturation, moderately included, good cut, symmetry polish, heat

3.9 carat pear medium-dark yellow sapphire (100 yellow - if you see greenish or orange modifiers, please tell me) with strong saturation, slightly included, good cut, symmetry polish, heat

Each windows slightly (5-10 percent) - most obviously in the step cut - pics to follow of me trying to see what it would look like closing the backing on the setting. I'm thinking the yellow pear, I could close the backing of the ring behind the stone in yellow gold and no harm, no foul - re-cut would be great, but the depth is already slightly shallow at 60-ish percent on each of the pears. I can't see the windowing in the blue pear unless I hold the ring up to the light.

The step cut seems to throw the most light, the yellow one is pretty gosh darn sparkly and lively, and the blue one is the least sparkly, but for some reason, I like it anyway (it doesn't seem to 'go dark,' and by that, I mean that it still looks either blue or violet blue)

What do you think of the color in each - is the very slightly grey too grey (the last one I asked you guys about had strong saturation, more violet in its hue, and I can see the difference in brightness thinking back to it versus this one)? Which would you wear the most often? Is the blue pear almost to formal/dressy to wear often? Is it hard to find similar items of similar quality (for lets say...2k/carat on the high end)? Do you reach out to a cutter if you want a step-cut that doesn't window with a nice color, as opposed to pulling the ones that you find as you find them?

Any and all thoughts are welcome!

 

[endless_summer]

And, more pics...worst lighting & my trying to mess with the step cut window

Natural light pics are in order tomorrow

 

[innerkitten]

I like the yellow ring a lot just based on the ring as a whole. The yellow prongs are very cool. But I actually like all of them. Depends what you're after.
ETA: What colors do you wear most often?

 

[endless_summer]

I like the yellow ring a lot just based on the ring as a whole. The yellow prongs are very cool. But I actually like all of them. Depends what you're after.
ETA: What colors do you wear most often?

Hey! I'm liking the yellow too - the color is really nice & bright, even if most of the light play is around the edges of the stone, and I love the ring style…go figure the other blue pear. I actually wear quite a lot of colors (orange, blue, yellow, shades of pink) in the summer (think beach kid grown up - lots of sun dresses, white shorts with a bright top - it's so hot where I live at that time, a semi-polished version of beach is key), and then in the winter - I try for color, but end up with a lot of neutrals and more muted colors. I can think of plenty of times that I would want to wear either ring - the blue mores in the winter, and the yellow in the summer or when I just miss the sun - I think both are very striking, just in different ways

I'm not opposed to keeping both pears if I can't decide and...putting myself on an austerity plan for a while, probably a slightly long while…
but, down the road, I wonder if I'd be able to get anywhere close to finding that blue color, let alone already set in a nice ring, at a reasonable price, as opposed to who knows what - prices vary so much, that I haven't a clue what would be considered a fair price, even after looking at every cutter or vendors website that I can find. That said, apparently it's hard to find yellow without wonky modifiers…a lot look orange to me, others have said they often see greenish.

In theory, I would love to own a square step cut light violetish blue sapphire one day because I appreciate the softer color and seeing the faceting, but I'm not sure if today is the day, given both cut issues, and lesser saturation than I would pick on paper. Yet, I like it for some reason anyway because of the faceting pattern and the broader flashes of light a great deal - I just wonder if closing the backing on that one to close the window will overly play up the grey in the stone - as opposed to doing the same for the yellow pear with yellow gold, which I'm thinking/hoping would likely both fix the extent to which it windows face up/at the very slightest tilt and enhance its color even more.

 

[FrekeChild]

Lighter step cut and yellow if I had to choose. Step cut because I like the color and step cuts are rare for sapphires. Yellow because it looks nice and bright and sunny.

The blue looks nice too...but I prefer the lighter blue because they really aren't all that common. Plus it looks like it closes up pretty well with metal behind it.

 

[sonyachancs]

Lighter step cut and yellow if I had to choose. Step cut because I like the color and step cuts are rare for sapphires. Yellow because it looks nice and bright and sunny.

The blue looks nice too...but I prefer the lighter blue because they really aren't all that common. Plus it looks like it closes up pretty well with metal behind it.

I second this! I love the light blue of the sapphire (even if that's not conventionally the deep blue that people go for), but the yellow has great size and is so sunny!

I think it *does* matter what colours you wear most often though - I suspect the blue might be more matchable in general..

 

[dk168]

I would keep the blue pear, as I am not keen on light colour blues, and yellow does nothing for me.

DK

 

[chrono]

I am only going by what I see on my monitor so it may not jive with what you see in person.

3.4 ct square step cut
Nice colour but it is more than very slightly gray to me. Cut is decent.

3.3 ct pear
Nice strong blue which looks to darken up sometimes when lighting is low, but otherwise stands out colour-wise compared to the other two stones. I noticed it said moderately included. Does this bother you in person?

3.9 ct pear
No orange but I see some green and I don't consider it strongly saturated (less so). Still, a rather nice sapphire. It looks to have more than a 10% window though and I don't see this closing up in a setting due to the light tone. This pear has the largest window of the three stones.

 

[endless_summer]

I think that the yellow one is probably a keeper, especially after getting the back of it closed with yellow gold - the color is ridiculously pretty - I feel like it's the equivalent of wearing a little piece of sunshine, and the setting, as is, appears vey well-executed.

Between the blues is the very hard toss-up. I am very drawn to the step cut. I like the lighter color though greyed (my biggest hitch here), and it is more on the casual day-to-day side - if it's a keeper, I'd re-do the setting one day in a way to show case it a bit better, as I feel it's pretty blah right now, likely with sidetones to provide more contrast in color. On the other hand, the darker is very striking, and the price on those babies just keeps going up, so I wonder if I'd be able to replicate it down the road - with unlimited funds, sure anything is possible, but with limited funds, I'm not so sure. Whereas, the lighter blues tend to cost less, and I could get in touch with Gary Braun or Jeff White, who make gorgeous step cuts and likely would be able to source rough with less grey. It would probably cost more than this one, but not so much more that I wouldn't highly consider it. Without throwing out numbers - versus the dark blue pear, the yellow costs about half, and the light blue is about 2/3rds. If I had a better sense of fair prices per carat, it would be helpful, but the pricing and grading of the sapphires seems pretty mushy - in that higher saturation will cost more that lower saturation, the darker will cost more than the lighter, but within grade class, for lack of better words (the GIA system makes most sense to me), its hard for me discern what gets valued most.

 

[minousbijoux]

I think that the yellow one is probably a keeper, especially after getting the back of it closed with yellow gold - the color is ridiculously pretty - I feel like it's the equivalent of wearing a little piece of sunshine, and the setting, as is, appears vey well-executed.

Between the blues is the very hard toss-up. I am very drawn to the step cut. I like the lighter color though greyed (my biggest hitch here), and it is more on the casual day-to-day side - if it's a keeper, I'd re-do the setting one day in a way to show case it a bit better, as I feel it's pretty blah right now, likely with sidetones to provide more contrast in color. On the other hand, the darker is very striking, and the price on those babies just keeps going up, so I wonder if I'd be able to replicate it down the road - with unlimited funds, sure anything is possible, but with limited funds, I'm not so sure. Whereas, the lighter blues tend to cost less, and I could get in touch with Gary Braun or Jeff White, who make gorgeous step cuts and likely would be able to source rough with less grey. It would probably cost more than this one, but not so much more that I wouldn't highly consider it. Without throwing out numbers - versus the dark blue pear, the yellow costs about half, and the light blue is about 2/3rds. If I had a better sense of fair prices per carat, it would be helpful, but the pricing and grading of the sapphires seems pretty mushy - in that higher saturation will cost more that lower saturation, the darker will cost more than the lighter, but within grade class, for lack of better words (the GIA system makes most sense to me), its hard for me discern what gets valued most.

Is there a reason you must get two? I would immediately knock out the light blue - while I see the violetish, I also see a stone lacking in saturation which results in a strong grey cast. The dark blue looks pretty dark to me and while it may be a beauty, I cannot determine that from the photos, so I would likely pass (plus I am biased about pears due to the common extinction/bowtie/differential in tip color. The yellow, which sounds like it makes your heart pitter patter, seems to be the ticket for you. I love how you talk about it. Just as an fyi, though, I do see green in the photos you've provided. It may be that it doesn't exist in hand or that it doesn't bother you - either way, you win and you should get it!

 

[endless_summer]

Here are some daylight shots - maybe it'll provide a bit of a better sense of color, windowing, etc…

And, I took a close up of the blue - maybe those stripy bits you can see are the inclusions? close up in strong sun, you can see where the stone windows, and I think those are what covers it up a bit more than the yellow? Notwithstanding that, I do like the color.

More thoughts? Would backing the yellow one really not help the window at all? I feel like its so apparent because of the color of my finger...

 

[chrono]

I love the yellow pear the most but that window is quite large. Have you tried cupping it (covering up the entire pavilion) to see if the window is less obvious?

 

[endless_summer]

I think that the yellow one is probably a keeper, especially after getting the back of it closed with yellow gold - the color is ridiculously pretty - I feel like it's the equivalent of wearing a little piece of sunshine, and the setting, as is, appears vey well-executed.

Between the blues is the very hard toss-up. I am very drawn to the step cut. I like the lighter color though greyed (my biggest hitch here), and it is more on the casual day-to-day side - if it's a keeper, I'd re-do the setting one day in a way to show case it a bit better, as I feel it's pretty blah right now, likely with sidetones to provide more contrast in color. On the other hand, the darker is very striking, and the price on those babies just keeps going up, so I wonder if I'd be able to replicate it down the road - with unlimited funds, sure anything is possible, but with limited funds, I'm not so sure. Whereas, the lighter blues tend to cost less, and I could get in touch with Gary Braun or Jeff White, who make gorgeous step cuts and likely would be able to source rough with less grey. It would probably cost more than this one, but not so much more that I wouldn't highly consider it. Without throwing out numbers - versus the dark blue pear, the yellow costs about half, and the light blue is about 2/3rds. If I had a better sense of fair prices per carat, it would be helpful, but the pricing and grading of the sapphires seems pretty mushy - in that higher saturation will cost more that lower saturation, the darker will cost more than the lighter, but within grade class, for lack of better words (the GIA system makes most sense to me), its hard for me discern what gets valued most.

Is there a reason you must get two? I would immediately knock out the light blue - while I see the violetish, I also see a stone lacking in saturation which results in a strong grey cast. The dark blue looks pretty dark to me and while it may be a beauty, I cannot determine that from the photos, so I would likely pass (plus I am biased about pears due to the common extinction/bowtie/differential in tip color. The yellow, which sounds like it makes your heart pitter patter, seems to be the ticket for you. I love how you talk about it. Just as an fyi, though, I do see green in the photos you've provided. It may be that it doesn't exist in hand or that it doesn't bother you - either way, you win and you should get it!

There is absolutely no reason I have to get two. Your thoughts on the step cut are what make me pause on that one - I wish I could not see the grey, but…I can. Even though I like the softness of the color and the cut is a dramatic improvement over the last one, I'm inclined to think that I might be better off being patient. Between the two pears is the more difficult decision for me - the yellow one does window, but I like the sunny color. If backing it would make up for a lesser cut, then I'm game - done deal - I win, and my wallet wins. Thought about re-cut, but there's a good chance I'd lose a lot of face up and it's not the best candidate due to a slightly shallow depth (61, as opposed to more of a belly for a cutter to work with on the pavilion). The blue one's color blows it away in terms of where my eye goes in most lights. But it is more expensive, even if far more affordable than other things that I've seen that appear to have a similar color and size. I think closing the back on the blue one would fix any windowing that it may have face-up without a doubt.

 

[endless_summer]

I love the yellow pear the most but that window is quite large. Have you tried cupping it (covering up the entire pavilion) to see if the window is less obvious?

I agree with you - I'd like to see what it looks like cupped - I just don't know what to cup it with, since I don't have a sheet of yellow metal - any suggestions for something I could try with to see what the effect would be? I can try later on and post the result.

As far as darker blues go, do you think its a poor choice?

 

[distracts]

Blue pear! Blue pear!

 

[chrono]

Just cup your hand around it or use foil to wrap the entire bottom half. Yellow paper? The inclusions in the blue pear is too distracting for me.

 

[FrekeChild]

Yeah, the blue pear would be out for me as well. It doesn't look sparkly at all to me. And that kind of looks like zoning a little bit too.

As for the gold cupping, I'd hit the candy aisle at your local store - something with a gold wrapper should work well. Rolos?

I still like the step cut, but that's because it hits all of my personal sweet spots.

I have a question - why aren't you trying to find a stone and then set it how you want later? I'm not understanding why you're going with these already set rings, especially when it sounds like you want to reset them more to your liking later on.

 

[endless_summer]

Re: the inclusions - they weren't distracting, and I couldn't even see them last night, but in super sun they are quite apparent on an angle.

Where is the zoning that you see? My eye is just not trained enough to recognize it.

Yellow sapphire - Yellow paper or candy it is - good call! (will post a pic after I accomplish making a pretend cup for it )

I am completely open to picking a stone and then having it set, and I have been looking - these just popped on the radar, and the settings for the pears are exactly how I would set them myself, except for maybe backing the stone. As compared to selecting a stone that may or may not be as nice and then setting it (assuming 1,500-2,000 - stock setting like those, I've seen at 2k), this way is substantially more cost effective, in these particular cases.

If I pass on the step cut, I would be asking a cutter to source rough and make it for me at some point in the future, recognizing that it would come at more of a premium. Frekechild - do you like the color? I like it too for some reason, even though I do see grey at the same time - do you see the grey? I go back and forth on this one - sometimes I see blah, and others I see pretty violet blue.

 

[FrekeChild]

Yes I do. I quite like it. Stones that are lighter in tone can look grayer at times, at least, from what I can tell. In your first pictures it looks quite gray indeed, but in the pictures in natural light, it looks lovely.

I'm attaching pictures of my favorite ring - a periwinkle oval spinel. It can look gray sometimes. And sometimes the blues and violets and purples are so vibrant and glorious that they take my breath away. So I'm fascinated by the color shifts and the surprises it gives me.

 

[FrekeChild]

While I'm posting pics of stones that go all wonky with colors, my lavender asscher. Does the same thing as the spinel above...with an additional mood.

So I'd say that if something tugs at you and says "KEEP ME! YOU LOVE ME!" then listen. We can give you the ins and outs of technical stuff behind each stone, but we cannot tell you if you love it, even if it does go gray.

***DISCLAIMER: I also love pure solid gray stones. But color shifters...they are the most fun to play with.

 

[endless_summer]

Frekechild - those are very pretty! the way the top one shifts in color reminds me of the color shift that the super-windowed step cut stone I had and asked you guys about, though it was a bit lighter. I wish I could take the color from the former stone and have it be cut into the newer one

Just thinking out loud...I almost debate asking to purchase just that previous stone, less the setting, for less than what we would have agreed on for the ring (so I'm not taking so much of a monetary risk) and have it re-cut , maybe asking Gemart Services (their before and after pics are really nice, and they appear to keep much of the face up size) and whether they think it would be feasible first, of course - best of both worlds - better cut, less grey, pretty light violet-blue color, and square step cut moves off the wish-list

 

[FrekeChild]

I like that idea.

 

[chrono]

Definitely inquire with a lapidary before purchasing the stone for a recut to find out:
1. Is the stone a good candidate for a recut (depth, inclusions, zoning)?
2. What is the estimated weight loss (dramatic or minimal face up size difference)
3. Other risks / benefits (could improve colour or lessen saturation)

 

[endless_summer]

FrekeChild - yes, it's a much better idea too (either that or start from scratch sourcing the stone and having it cut)! I really want to love that step cut, and in some lights, I do - but more often than not, and it's not captured in the pictures, if I have it on and look down, it goes quite gray, and I think backing it to fix the window would just result in more grey - as much as I would love to be impatient and just have it to have it

Chrono - absolutely - I had planned on asking about all of those things. There is absolutely no reason to purchase a 3-4 carat stone to end up with 2, in which case, patience is a much better idea.

You guys have been really very helpful. I'm sure my search has been somewhat frustrating to watch unfold, and likely if I didn't know any better any one of the ones that I've presented would surely have been keepers (except for maybe the first)...ahhhh, the greatness of PS. That said, I'm not looking for investor quality, or even necessarily the best - just something pretty that's not fatally flawed and that I would be proud to wear for years, as opposed to being impatient and then having things about the particular stones drive me nuts after wearing it for a few weeks or months.

Haven't had a chance to find a yellow foil candy yet, but its in the works - I put a yellow shirt underneath the stone and it seemed to help a bit, but I do want to see it with something more akin to what it would look like with metal behind it.

BTW - anyone have a sense of what a medium-light to light violet blue with at least moderately strong saturation would cost per carat, around the 3ish carat mark? I'm just looking for a ballpark for budgeting purposes and trying to weigh options. It's hard for me to find decent comps, even though I have looked and looked.

 

[chrono]

Two very different pricing structures for different reasons where you can look under blue sapphires to find comps:
www.gemfix.com ($2k total for just under 3 ct for an unheated very light blue sapphire).
www.multicolour.com ($1k total for just over 3 ct which I presume is heated very light blue sapphire)

 

[endless_summer]

Two very different pricing structures for different reasons where you can look under blue sapphires to find comps:
www.gemfix.com ($2k total for just under 3 ct for an unheated very light blue sapphire).
www.multicolour.com ($1k total for just over 3 ct which I presume is heated very light blue sapphire)

Wow - yeah, I would be far better off to source rough and then cut the stone - and, I would expect to pay a bit of a premium, but it would probably come out in the same ball park of the current ring in hand. yay!

 

[endless_summer]

Here's the best I can do to try to simulate closing the back of the yellow stone's ring with yellow gold - I think the gummy-bear wrapper dramatically improved the ring - what do you guy's eye see?

 

[endless_summer]

And, here's saving the best for last - in the sun

I did check making the gummy wrapper into a tiny square to make sure the effect didn't rely on my whole finger being yellow, and it still appeared to hold. I'm hoping yellow gold behind it would be even prettier.

 

[chrono]

If you thinking buying cut stones is difficult, buying rough is 10x more difficult. I only know the very basics in that the yield is around 30%, give or take. You have to be able to orientate the rough correctly to get the best colour and account for zoning, inclusions, etc. so who knows what the yield will be. Then there's the shape of the rough which dictates the shape of the stone, etc. It's a whole different ballpark where I am definitely not ready to play in yet. So yes, I'd rather pay the premium to purchase a ready-cut stone.

The wrapper test brought 2 things to mind. Instead of seeing skin, you now see the wrapper. At a glance, the eyes skip over the window but if you know what to look for, it is still clearly there. Is this fix sufficient to ease your mind or will it still not be "mind-clean" for you? Secondly, you are presuming that the entire back is enclosed when using this method. Are you prepared to completely or almost completely cover up the underside of the ring? This is likely to make it more difficult to clean the underside of the stone.

 

[endless_summer]

If you thinking buying cut stones is difficult, buying rough is 10x more difficult. I only know the very basics in that the yield is around 30%, give or take. You have to be able to orientate the rough correctly to get the best colour and account for zoning, inclusions, etc. so who knows what the yield will be. Then there's the shape of the rough which dictates the shape of the stone, etc. It's a whole different ballpark where I am definitely not ready to play in yet. So yes, I'd rather pay the premium to purchase a ready-cut stone.

The wrapper test brought 2 things to mind. Instead of seeing skin, you now see the wrapper. At a glance, the eyes skip over the window but if you know what to look for, it is still clearly there. Is this fix sufficient to ease your mind or will it still not be "mind-clean" for you? Secondly, you are presuming that the entire back is enclosed when using this method. Are you prepared to completely or almost completely cover up the underside of the ring? This is likely to make it more difficult to clean the underside of the stone.

Ohhh - I definitely didn't mean source the rough myself - I meant go through the process that others have working with a Jeff White or a Gary Braun type person - noooooo way I could pick rough myself. That would be a disaster!

With the yellow stone, I wouldn't completely cup the stone, just close the whole behind it on the underside of the ring, like how the wrapper was sitting underneath the ring on my finger. I don't need perfection, just something that I wouldn't notice in an apparent way and would still be pretty.