Sapphire worth keeping? (another sapphire - sorry!)

[EmmaJoy]

I recently purchased this heated (no BE) sapphire from ebay. I really loved the color & cut (clipped corners - yum!) and wanted an into purchase to the world of cs buying on ebay. The stone IRL, however, captures light weirdly. When it's in direct light, only a line in the middle of the stone is shiny (when you tilt the stone, the line moves) - is this something that can be fixed in a setting? The extinction on the ends isn't as pronounced IRL. I paid $450 - is it overpriced?

My photo



Vendor Photo

 

[LD]

Ok, a couple of things ............. it's 1.31ct and the lab report was by SLP laboratory is that the one?

If so, I'm pretty sure that there were some negative things about this lab on here a while ago. Can you do a search and see what pops up? My memory may be playing tricks with me though so you need to check this out. If it's the lab that there was quite a bit of negativity about I wouldn't trust the report.

If you're having doubts, I would return it. The play of light within the gem won't get better when set I'm afraid. If anything, it will probably look a bit darker. However, if you like it and can forgive the way it reflects the light/colour back to your eye then you should keep it. It's a very personal thing!

I have never bought from this vendor but a few things concern me i.e. they use the same photo of one gem for several auctions and FYI, in the Vendor's video and photos your stone looks much better cut than the one you have photographed. I suspect there has been some manipulation of both photo and video (if you look at the stills below you'll see the photos have definitely been altered - look how the background colour replicates the colour of the stone). Based on that I would be weary of the vendor but others may have had a positive experience with them so hopefully somebody will chime in who has bought from them.

EDIT: Here are the threads on SLP. I doubt whether they have the capability to test for Be diffusion. You may want to check.
[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/what-is-slp-laboratory.148956/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/what-is-slp-laboratory.148956/[/URL]
[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/slp-gem-lab.143681/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/slp-gem-lab.143681/[/URL]

 

[T L]

Like LD,
I am very concerned it has an SLP gem lab report, which by what my gemologist friends tell me, is a bogus lab and they have seen be-treated stones with SLP lab reports indicating no heat. Please return it and get your money back asap, and please do not deal with that vendor again.

If you do a google search on "SLP gem lab," you will see some disconcerting things, and the fact they have no website either concerns me. The contact information on the lab report is also not a verifiable street address from what I heard.

 

[EmmaJoy]

Thanks so much for your replies, LD & TL . I think part of my problem is that I really want to like the stone - and the company. Someone else posted (a thread I can't find) where she said she had purchased multiple sapphires from these folks and gotten them tested - so even though I saw the posts about the dubious lab, I was hoping to catch a steal. I loved the color and it fit perfectly in a setting I have...but I think I will have to send it back. I'm finding CS stone buying MUCH more difficult than I expected. I really don't know how ya'll find such good deals!!

 

[Pandora II]

You're very unlikely to find a 'steal' with sapphires anymore except perhaps spotting something very underpriced in an antique piece.

Sapphires are exceptionally popular right now, dealers on the ground in Thailand etc have overseas dealers coming in every day to buy. The Chinese will buy pretty much anything they are offered. No-one is going to put a valuable stone on ebay for less than a fair price - if it's cheap - and £450 is very cheap for a stone of that size, the represented colour and in a sought after shape - then there is a reason.

 

[minousbijoux]

I'm finding CS stone buying MUCH more difficult than I expected. I really don't know how ya'll find such good deals!!

That's just it - we don't always get good deals. How many times have people come on the site to brag about how they overpaid for their mediocre or even good stone? You don't. Instead, people don't necessarily mention the price, but just show the stone. Occasionally people brag about the "steal" they got and apart from beginners luck (which happens), it is typically folks that have a lot of experience and knowledge about gems, have devoted considerable time to learning how to interpret the photos and videos, and who often have an established relationship with the vendor.

LD and TL have given you excellent advice. TL taught me not to buy heated sapphires online unless I trusted the vendor and had a reputable lab report. SLP or SPL is not such a lab and cannot tell you whether it has been diffused. To my knowledge, GIA Bangkok has been the only lab which had that ability, and now AIGS has acquired the equipment and can test as well.

I find that you have to have several different talents if you want to buy stones and set them: 1) enough knowledge of gemstones so you can assure that you are getting what you paid for; 2) an ability to interpret the photos/videos (LD gave you an excellent summary on what to look for) and a seller willing to answer all your questions in a timely manner; and 3) an ability to visualize how a stone will look when set - i.e., what metal color to use, proportion of sidestones, design to compliment rather than compete with the stone, etc. Some of us [ahem, me] have no talent in this department But LD and TL are two of the best at knowing precisely what will complement the stone and what will make it sing in a setting.

Please don't be discouraged after one attempt!

 

[T L]

I'm finding CS stone buying MUCH more difficult than I expected. I really don't know how ya'll find such good deals!!

That's just it - we don't always get good deals. How many times have people come on the site to brag about how they overpaid for their mediocre or even good stone? You don't. Instead, people don't necessarily mention the price, but just show the stone. Occasionally people brag about the "steal" they got and apart from beginners luck (which happens), it is typically folks that have a lot of experience and knowledge about gems, have devoted considerable time to learning how to interpret the photos and videos, and who often have an established relationship with the vendor.

LD and TL have given you excellent advice. TL taught me not to buy heated sapphires online unless I trusted the vendor and had a reputable lab report. SLP or SPL is not such a lab and cannot tell you whether it has been diffused. To my knowledge, GIA Bangkok has been the only lab which had that ability, and now AIGS has acquired the equipment and can test as well.

I find that you have to have several different talents if you want to buy stones and set them: 1) enough knowledge of gemstones so you can assure that you are getting what you paid for; 2) an ability to interpret the photos/videos (LD gave you an excellent summary on what to look for) and a seller willing to answer all your questions in a timely manner; and 3) an ability to visualize how a stone will look when set - i.e., what metal color to use, proportion of sidestones, design to compliment rather than compete with the stone, etc. Some of us [ahem, me] have no talent in this department But LD and TL are two of the best at knowing precisely what will complement the stone and what will make it sing in a setting.

Please don't be discouraged after one attempt!

AIGS did obtain the equipment? When, where did you hear that, and is it LIBS or LA-ICP-MS? Thanks!

As to your second bolded statement, thanks for the confidence, but some people wouldn't agree with you on that, as far as I'm concerned (I'm not speaking for LD). There are actually a lot of different tastes in this forum, but I think everyone gives some wonderful and great ideas for complimenting the various gems shown on this site.

 

[chrono]

Do not feel disheartened; buying a good gem at a competitive price will take time and experience but can be speeded up by asking for assistance on PS. When most of us "started out", we also tended to pay more for subpar material and have slowly improved in our knowledge, eyes and taste.

 

[minousbijoux]

AIGS did obtain the equipment? When, where did you hear that, and is it LIBS or LA-ICP-MS? Thanks!

As to your second bolded statement, thanks for the confidence, but some people wouldn't agree with you on that, as far as I'm concerned (I'm not speaking for LD). There are actually a lot of different tastes in this forum, but I think everyone gives some wonderful and great ideas for complimenting the various gems shown on this site.

LIBS - finally!

TL, just take the compliment that you have earned!

I know there are many different tastes on this board and many people that are really, really good at helping design jewelry, so I didn't mean to imply that you were the only two. Its just that until Chrono joined the thread, you and LD had been the only two that had responded. And TL really now, stop and think about what you have learned in setting stones. Whether conscious or not, your design knowledge is huge - that bezels darken stones, that you can close up some windows with certain settings, that certain metals are better than others for long term durability, that high karat gold compliments certain colors and detracts from others (can't provide examples cause I haven't done it enough to make it work ) - heck, you even know how to match the saturation and intensity of color of different stones (your new blue sapphire and chrysoberyl ring). I'm not commenting on style (e.g., how much bling, to halo or not to halo, whether to mix different colors), as there are many different tastes and we don't necessarily always have the same taste. I'm saying that you are a good resource when it comes to providing input on different design ideas and their respective pros and cons; you have a good depth of experience putting together stones and settings and along the way, you have learned a thing or two! Now take your bow.

**now getting down and sheepishly walking away from soapbox**

 

[chrono]

MB,
Thanks for the update about AIGS having a LIBS machine now. Any news on how much they are charging to test for diffusion?

 

[minousbijoux]

Sorry, that I do not know. But to be competitive, doesn't it have to be close in price to GIA Bangkok?

 

[chrono]

Sorry, that I do not know. But to be competitive, doesn't it have to be close in price to GIA Bangkok?

One would guess so.

EmmaJoy,
Sorry for the threadjack.

 

[T L]

Sorry, that I do not know. But to be competitive, doesn't it have to be close in price to GIA Bangkok?

Well, the LA-ICP-MS machine is supposedly more accurate, but someone can correct me if I'm wrong. An LIBS is better than nothing I suppose. It is $100 to do the LA-ICP-MS test with AGL, in addition to the base report fees and S&H and insurance. I hope its not more than that. Sorry for the thread tangent.

ETA: Thanks for the kind words Minous.

 

[EmmaJoy]

@chrono - no problem!

I realize that when posting this thread, I probably knew I needed to return the stone...I was just really hoping that you all would surprise me and tell me I got an amazing deal - and that I should keep it! I have had some success buying antique diamonds on ebay recently...and one little garnet... but no big successes yet!

I am one of those people with so many ideas about settings, and designs - just lacking the stones and the funds to make them happen!

 

[Treenbean]

It was me who purchased from this vendor. I bought spinels though not sapphire and yes I did get them certified by AGL. I would talk to Marnar, if you want to send it to a better lab for verification. He will probably make good if it turns out not as represented.

 

[EmmaJoy]

Hi Treenbean, Thanks for updating us - apologies for forgetting that it was spinels - not sapphires! Marnar has been very nice and good to work with on this - he's an extraordinarily responsive ebay seller! I think his excellent customer service is one more reason that I really wanted this to work! (I still haven't decided, as the color is delish, but the cut will probably drive me crazy forever)

 

[T L]

Hi Treenbean, Thanks for updating us - apologies for forgetting that it was spinels - not sapphires! Marnar has been very nice and good to work with on this - he's an extraordinarily responsive ebay seller! I think his excellent customer service is one more reason that I really wanted this to work! (I still haven't decided, as the color is delish, but the cut will probably drive me crazy forever)

Good-Earth is also one of those vendors that people enjoy working with, but she still provides SLP lab reports, so I refuse to work with that vendor. Even IF SLP lab were not bogus, I don't think an unverifiable lab report is acceptable. A vendor can be great, nice, spectacular to work with, but I take exception when they use a bogus lab.

I have asked vendors and gemologists on several forums if they can find if SLP exists, and none could. Some even told me the address and the phone number doesn't really exist (and that was a guy who lived in Thailand and tried calling the number). Spinels may be natural, but it's so much trickier buying corundum due to all the myriads of treatments on these stones, and the types of treatments that are uneasily detected, like diffusion. Buyer beware.

My very favorite ebay vendors all use labs that we know of, AIGS, Burapha, GIA, GRS, etc. . . and I think it's important to stick with them. If they can find the ease an time to send the stones to those labs, I feel they are standing behind their product as well. As for sapphires, I think the only labs overseas that can test properly for diffusion are GIA (Thailand), GRS, SSEF and Geublin. Someone mentioned that AIGS just got an LIBS machine, so that can be checked out.

 

[LD]

Emmajoy - think of it like this:

If you had your own business would you sell a stone and tell people to be reassured by giving them a lab report you KNEW to be fake/phoney? What does that say about your credibility? Even nice responsive people can be dishonest.

If you live over there and deal in gemstones there is no way you wouldn't know how dodgy that report is.

 

[Treenbean]

I think we are making a lot of assumptions here. We don't know for sure if every gem dealer in Thailand "knows" that SLP is bogus. If the gem is not as represented he should refund the money. I have purchased from him. The stones went to AGL, yes I know they aren't corundum, but they were as represented.
Valid point on photography with backgrounds tinted the same color as the gem. I have noted his videos are more representative of his gems, as is the truth with some other vendors used by people here.
I have emailed the vendor to see what he has to say regarding SLP. Better to hear it from the horses mouth.

 

[T L]

I think we are making a lot of assumptions here. We don't know for sure if every gem dealer in Thailand "knows" that SLP is bogus. If the gem is not as represented he should refund the money. I have purchased from him. The stones went to AGL, yes I know they aren't corundum, but they were as represented.
Valid point on photography with backgrounds tinted the same color as the gem. I have noted his videos are more representative of his gems, as is the truth with some other vendors used by people here.

I have emailed the vendor to see what he has to say regarding SLP. Better to hear it from the horses mouth.

All the evidence points to it, including the fact that a gemologist told me that he's seen be-heated stones that had SLP lab reports of "no heat" on them. In any case, all lab reports should be verifiable, and SLP isn't because no one can contact them since it appears that the address and phone number do not exist. The vendor can say what he wants about SLP, but why should we believe him when there are others that have not much to gain, that insist that this lab is bogus.

See what "Morecarats" has to say about trying to find this lab in Thailand.

[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/slp-gem-lab.143681/?hilit=SLP']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/slp-gem-lab.143681/?hilit=SLP[/URL]

I'm sorry Treebean, but I'm not going to believe what this vendor says about this lab unless they have verifiable proof that this lab exists like a website and a true address. I have submitted multiple queries on this forum and others trying to find out if this lab exists, and no one can say it does except for vendors that sell stones with SLP gem lab reports.

I have also noticed that a lot of SLP lab reports are for sapphires, which makes sense, as they can be the most difficult to test, and most are heated, and in Thailand, there are a ton of be-heated stones that sellers want to pass off as unheated for a huge profit margin. Spinels don't give me as much worry unless they are very saturated in color and not included at all.

 

[LD]

I think we are making a lot of assumptions here. We don't know for sure if every gem dealer in Thailand "knows" that SLP is bogus. If the gem is not as represented he should refund the money. I have purchased from him. The stones went to AGL, yes I know they aren't corundum, but they were as represented.
Valid point on photography with backgrounds tinted the same color as the gem. I have noted his videos are more representative of his gems, as is the truth with some other vendors used by people here.

I have emailed the vendor to see what he has to say regarding SLP. Better to hear it from the horses mouth.

All the evidence points to it, including the fact that a gemologist told me that he's seen be-heated stones that had SLP lab reports of "no heat" on them. In any case, all lab reports should be verifiable, and SLP isn't because no one can contact them since it appears that the address and phone number do not exist. The vendor can say what he wants about SLP, but why should we believe him when there are others that have not much to gain, that insist that this lab is bogus.

See what "Morecarats" has to say about trying to find this lab in Thailand.

[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/slp-gem-lab.143681/?hilit=SLP']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/slp-gem-lab.143681/?hilit=SLP[/URL]

I'm sorry Treebean, but I'm not going to believe what this vendor says about this lab unless they have verifiable proof that this lab exists like a website and a true address. I have submitted multiple queries on this forum and others trying to find out if this lab exists, and no one can say it does except for vendors that sell stones with SLP gem lab reports.

I have also noticed that a lot of SLP lab reports are for sapphires, which makes sense, as they can be the most difficult to test, and most are heated, and in Thailand, there are a ton of be-heated stones that sellers want to pass off as unheated for a huge profit margin. Spinels don't give me as much worry unless they are very saturated in color and not included at all.

There's no way I will believe this Vendor either. If you live in a country and work in a field that's not exactly extensive, how can you possibly NOT know which labs to go to and which not to trust????? That to me really doesn't stack up. IF he truly doesn't know then I would question his credibility in any case.

 

[Marnar-Colorgemstore]

Hi everybody!
I'm Marnar from Colorgemstore. I can guarantee all of gemstone in my store. For the reason some of my stones was get SLP Lab because of SLP Lab is near my office and take very fast and comfortable for me to get it (but almost my unheated sapphire will send to Emil gem Lab)
However if you are not sure in the SLP Certificate result you can send it back to me to check at the another Lab which you prefer. I can guarantee the same result all of my gemstone which I state even it's come from SLP Lab if it's said "Heat without Beryllium" that's mean you can send the stone it back to me to AIGS or GIT to re-check and get same reslut. I'm not sure that another seller will do like this or not but you can ask to me to do.
I will do it for you because of I want to keep my renown and want to stay in this business for long time not 2 or 3 years by only saying "Unheated stone" but it's heated stone or saying "Heated without BE" but it's heated by BE to get a big margin.
But however if you are still not satisfied in my quality of gemstone you can send it back to me to get FULL refund from me because of "Your Satisfaction Is my Top Priority." and I understand that it's very hardly to buy something from unknow people and don't see the actual stone first before pay the money (just judge in the picture and video only).
If you have any question please feel free to ask me anytime. I'm glad to answer all of you question even my English is not well but I will try!
Wish everybody have a nice day.
Best Regards.
Marnar (Colorgemstore)

 

[chrono]

Marnar,
Welcome to PS and thank you for the offer of sending the stone to the lab of the customer's choice. There are quite a few other eBay vendors who also offer their customers the lab of their choice.

 

[Marnar-Colorgemstore]

Hi Chrono!
Nice to meet you.
I'm come to PS because of my friend Treenbean invite me to see her posted to me about her Spinel that see bought from my store and I had seen a subtopic to me about SLP and I think I need to clarify.
Best Regards,
Marnar

 

[T L]

AIGS may charge extra for be-treatment, so it should be noted that the test should be done. I've had problems communicating my wishes to them through vendors before, so please keep that in mind. I don't know if GIT can test for beryllium. I have heard conflicting stories about them with corundum. Honestly, in my experience, and others I have spoken with, I only trust GIA, AGL, and the European labs for corundum.

Marnar,
Can't she just send it to AGL, and if it doesn't come back as stated, you can refund her, and the money for the fast track report.

 

[Marnar-Colorgemstore]

Ok, a couple of things ............. it's 1.31ct and the lab report was by SLP laboratory is that the one?

If so, I'm pretty sure that there were some negative things about this lab on here a while ago. Can you do a search and see what pops up? My memory may be playing tricks with me though so you need to check this out. If it's the lab that there was quite a bit of negativity about I wouldn't trust the report.

If you're having doubts, I would return it. The play of light within the gem won't get better when set I'm afraid. If anything, it will probably look a bit darker. However, if you like it and can forgive the way it reflects the light/colour back to your eye then you should keep it. It's a very personal thing!

I have never bought from this vendor but a few things concern me i.e. they use the same photo of one gem for several auctions and FYI, in the Vendor's video and photos your stone looks much better cut than the one you have photographed. I suspect there has been some manipulation of both photo and video (if you look at the stills below you'll see the photos have definitely been altered - look how the background colour replicates the colour of the stone). Based on that I would be weary of the vendor but others may have had a positive experience with them so hopefully somebody will chime in who has bought from them.

EDIT: Here are the threads on SLP. I doubt whether they have the capability to test for Be diffusion. You may want to check.
[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/what-is-slp-laboratory.148956/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/what-is-slp-laboratory.148956/[/URL]
[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/slp-gem-lab.143681/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/slp-gem-lab.143681/[/URL]

Hi LD,
"they use the same photo of one gem for several auctions and FYI"
Could you give me your example of your statement please?

I never use same photo of one gem for several auctions and my store don't have any auctions item since my store open,
my store have "buy it now and best offer" only and all of that gems are an actual stone not a duplicate photo.
Best Regards,
Marnar

 

[Marnar-Colorgemstore]

Hi TL,
Thank you very much for your advice.
Don't worry about that because when the return item comes back to me I will refund 100% full money refund to her immediately.
Because of "My customer Satisfaction Is my Top Priority."
If you have any question or want to suggest me please do anytime because even I'm a old gemstone seller but I'm very new in PS
Best Regards,
Your friend Marnar

 

[Marnar-Colorgemstore]

Ok, a couple of things ............. it's 1.31ct and the lab report was by SLP laboratory is that the one?

If so, I'm pretty sure that there were some negative things about this lab on here a while ago. Can you do a search and see what pops up? My memory may be playing tricks with me though so you need to check this out. If it's the lab that there was quite a bit of negativity about I wouldn't trust the report.

If you're having doubts, I would return it. The play of light within the gem won't get better when set I'm afraid. If anything, it will probably look a bit darker. However, if you like it and can forgive the way it reflects the light/colour back to your eye then you should keep it. It's a very personal thing!

I have never bought from this vendor but a few things concern me i.e. they use the same photo of one gem for several auctions and FYI, in the Vendor's video and photos your stone looks much better cut than the one you have photographed. I suspect there has been some manipulation of both photo and video (if you look at the stills below you'll see the photos have definitely been altered - look how the background colour replicates the colour of the stone). Based on that I would be weary of the vendor but others may have had a positive experience with them so hopefully somebody will chime in who has bought from them.

EDIT: Here are the threads on SLP. I doubt whether they have the capability to test for Be diffusion. You may want to check.
[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/what-is-slp-laboratory.148956/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/what-is-slp-laboratory.148956/[/URL]
[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/slp-gem-lab.143681/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/slp-gem-lab.143681/[/URL]

Hi LD,
I'm still waiting your answer about why do you mention to me that I "use the same photo of one gem for several auctions".
Do you have an evidence for that?
Best Regards,
Marnar

More (Edit) Hi again LD, I can proof myself that all of my customer who are bought my gemstone from my store who are get SLP Certificate they can send it to re-check the result again at the another Lab which they prefer if the result are not as I state or not same in SLP I will send the report to all people in PS.
So you can find the evidence that you mention to me that I "use the same photo of one gem for several auctions" ?
I think if you can do it's will fair for us.
Best Regards,
Marnar

 

[Treenbean]

Hi Marnar
I'm glad you came here and clarified.

 

[Marnar-Colorgemstore]

Hi my friend Treenbean !
How are you?
Thank you very much for invite me to PS. This is a great gemstone and society! I'm a very newbie 1 day in PS, may be I will get some suggestion from you.
Wish you have a nice day,
Your friend Marnar