sapphire ring question

[azelismia]

I bought this ring tonight. it''s advertised as natural unheated sapphire I have the: I just paid multihundreds of dollars jitters (online auction source) and I don''t know what I am doing, syndrome. they promise an appraisal with the piece and of course I paid with my credit card and paypal so I have some sort of consumer protection... but just to ease my mind (or prepare me for the worst) does this look like it probably is what it says it is? (obviously I think it does or I wouldn''t have bought it, but I am a gemstone noob)

the seller has good feedback and seems to mostly sell more expensive jewelry so that seems to be a bit of a plus.

Comments?

Thanks!

 

[TravelingGal]

Date: 2/22/2009 3:07:44 AM
Author:azelismia

I bought this ring tonight. it's advertised as natural unheated sapphire I have the: I just paid multihundreds of dollars jitters (online auction source) and I don't know what I am doing, syndrome. they promise an appraisal with the piece and of course I paid with my credit card and paypal so I have some sort of consumer protection... but just to ease my mind (or prepare me for the worst) does this look like it probably is what it says it is? (obviously I think it does or I wouldn't have bought it, but I am a gemstone noob)

the seller has good feedback and seems to mostly sell more expensive jewelry so that seems to be a bit of a plus.

Comments?

Thanks!

Sorry, no way anyone is going to be able to tell from a pic. You'd have to send to a lab to figure out treatment. Hope this turns out well for you!

Welcome to pricescope!

ETA, an "appraisal" is worthless unless it's coming from an totally independent appraiser, IMHO. Seems like this is coming from them, so of course they can put on it what they'd like.

ETA again, looking at the pic, it seems that the sapphire will be even darker in real life than the pic. Hopefully that is what you are expecting.

 

[azelismia]

nope it never occured to me that it might be darker. hmm, well I''ll have to hold my breath until I get it lol.

thanks

 

[azelismia]

how much do lab reports usually cost? this ring was 750. Will it make sense for a ring in this price range? or would I be better off just finding an independant appraiser?

 

[vanessa_b]

Yes, that sapphire will probably be very dark, almost black. It might still be pretty though! It''s just a matter of taste.

 

[T L]

Date: 2/22/2009 3:07:44 AM
Author:azelismia

I bought this ring tonight. it's advertised as natural unheated sapphire I have the: I just paid multihundreds of dollars jitters (online auction source) and I don't know what I am doing, syndrome. they promise an appraisal with the piece and of course I paid with my credit card and paypal so I have some sort of consumer protection... but just to ease my mind (or prepare me for the worst) does this look like it probably is what it says it is? (obviously I think it does or I wouldn't have bought it, but I am a gemstone nob)

I don't trust appraisals unless I know they came from a very reliable gemologist who is also an independent party. That being said, I do put high credence in lab reports from an accredited lab that specializes in colored gems like AGTA, AGL, GRS, etc. . .

Although a lab report, or certificate if you will, will not give you an estimated replacement cost, it will truly verify if the stone is what it says it is (unheated natural corundum - sapphire), and a good lab report will also give values for tone, saturation, clarity, etc. . . This information is extremely beneficial to estimate the true replacement value. It can be expensive to get a good detailed lab report on some gems, and they are often times not worth it unless you feel you might have a gem of significant value.

That sapphire looks very dark, and the darker and more black the sapphire, the less valuable it is, even if it is unheated. Post pictures here when you get it.

 

[marcy]

It''s a pretty ring. I hope you''ll like it when you see it in person.

 

[chrono]

They are shining very strong lighting in order to "lighten" the sapphire in that picture so I would guess it to be dark in person. Also, even if unheated, a dark sapphire isn''t worth much. At this poiint, I''d skip the lab report and have an independent gemologist look at it.

 

[BWise]

If I were you I will try my best to back out of this sale. With 750 you have a good chance of picking a well cut stone and put it in a semi-mounting, all from reliable vendors that PS''ers here can refer you to. I have a feeling that this ring will not make you happy, especially if you are not expecting a dark dark sapphire. It will not be worthy for you to get an independent appraisal or lab cert on this ring since they start around $150.

 

[azelismia]

assuming it is a natural unheated but dark sapphire, but a very dark blue as it appears to be, would I have gotten robbed at 750 for it?
From the description:
"This is a beautiful ring containing a natural untreated blue, oval, faceted cut sapphire surrounded by twelve bright sparkling round diamonds. The sapphire weighs 4.65 carats and the surrounding VS-2-SI3-G-H (near colorless white) diamonds .60 carats. The ring is set in 14K yellow gold, fits size 7, and both stones and ring are in excellent excellent condition....satisfaction guaranteed"

it states in the heading of the auction that it comes with an appraisal cert. of this woman''s auctions it''s the only one that states that. just from looking at her style of posting auctions, I think its her own personal collection. I don''t think she''s a storefront or a dealer.

If it is far darker than Ideal is it likely for it to be do you often find synthetics with this color? If it is treated would I have still done ok with this?

I''ve emailed her asking about the stone and stated that if it''s really black and or opaque I''d like to back out of it. it wasn''t supposed to ship until monday. I also enquired as to the source of the appraisal/ certs

 

[T L]

Date: 2/22/2009 3:05:12 PM
Author: azelismia



assuming it is a natural unheated but dark sapphire, but a very dark blue as it appears to be, would I have gotten robbed at 750 for it?
From the description:
'This is a beautiful ring containing a natural untreated blue, oval, faceted cut sapphire surrounded by twelve bright sparkling round diamonds. The sapphire weighs 4.65 carats and the surrounding VS-2-SI3-G-H (near colorless white) diamonds .60 carats. The ring is set in 14K yellow gold, fits size 7, and both stones and ring are in excellent excellent condition....satisfaction guaranteed'




it states in the heading of the auction that it comes with an appraisal cert. of this woman's auctions it's the only one that states that. just from looking at her style of posting auctions, I think its her own personal collection. I don't think she's a storefront or a dealer.

If it is far darker than Ideal is it likely for it to be do you often find synthetics with this color? If it is treated would I have still done ok with this?

I've emailed her asking about the stone and stated that if it's really black and or opaque I'd like to back out of it. it wasn't supposed to ship until monday. I also enquired as to the source of the appraisal/ certs

If the diamonds are truly clean and bright, and not really I or poor SI quality stones, then I think you paid for the setting. The stone, if it's opaque and black, would be worth less than $100. The shank on the ring looks quite thin as well as the overall appearance of it. I'm not quite sure about the quality of the diamonds. They don't look like they're very clean, but it could just be the photograph. Synthetic sapphires are usually "perfect" in color and clarity. Some shady dealers tumble synthetic sapphires to make them look worn, torn, and natural, and then sell them as natural.

Many of us purchase ring settings from a dealer on ebay called "Lord of the Gem Rings" and for $750, you can get one phenomenal diamond ring mount from that dealer. Most of us then buy the stones loose from recommended gemstone dealers to fit these mounts.

I will give you a hint, do not purchase sapphires off of ebay (if that is where you purchased it from, I'm just guessing). Most of them are diffused (dyed) or enhanced somehow, synthetic and being passed off as natural, or they're low grade. That's not to say all of them on ebay are, but you really need to know what you're doing if you're buying a sapphire off of ebay. Ebay can be a wonderful resource for nice gems and a "good deal," but you really have to know about all the tricks that many unscrupulous sellers will throw at you. Unfortunately, there are ALOT of unscrupulous sellers on ebay that end up making it difficult for honest ebay sellers.

 

[azelismia]

I did see a few of their settings. they were a bit flash for my tastes. my place holder ring, and the one with pretty much my ideal style setting is a star sapphire (Which I suspect is a lab stone but I am not sure) is more of an estate style. I think from the early 60''s.

any idea of a good source of settings for rings with a more simple style like this one?

 

[azelismia]

the appraisal is from teh us gemological laboratory. I should be fine then right?

the stone is slightly opaque but not black looking.


she took the new pics with a pen light and it''s a def royal blue. I asked her to tell me what the report said for clarity and color. She says it has an estimated replacement value of 4800 according to the report.

the blue color she''s showing with a pen light is pretty much the color I was expecting. it doesn''t look "black" like some of the black sapphires I''ve seen out there.

in order to attach this file i had to shrink it way down to get the size ok.

 

[Pandora II]

Looking at the way that ring is photographed I think you are going to be pretty unhappy with the stone - it will most likely be almost black and almost opaque unless a light is shone through it.

Unless you think the setting is worth $750 and you're considering buying a decent sapphire to put in it (and thus paying the additional costs for unsetting/resetting plus a new stone) I would try and get out of the deal as quickly as possible.

Appraisals can be just a piece of paper supplied by the vendor - unless they are backed up by a reputable lab they are worthless. To be honest, I wouldn't spend any money having that stone independently appraised as it will almost certainly cost you more than the stone is worth.

ETA: Looking at the new photos - that stone will look black unless you can have an led fitted under the setting all the time. Colour is judged face up in natural daylight for coloured stones - not with a torch shining through it. You're not going to have a torch shining through it whilst it's on your hand. I can't believe that a vendor would think that is an appropriate or ethical way to present their product.

$4800 for replacement is a complete con - no-one in their right mind would pay that I'm afraid. For that price you could get an decent sized unheated stone in a really good colour from the Natural Sapphire Company. Do not believe "appraisals" that say this kind of thing.

 

[azelismia]

and even though these are shrunk way down, the shank is clearly not as bad as it looked from the first pic. it''s a nice normal looking ring as far as that goes and the diamonds look nice too. a lot of the rings we looked at in person yesterday had stones similarily dark and I liked them. she says in person it''s a nice dark inky blue.

 

[azelismia]

she says it''s the us gemological laboratory..

 

[neatfreak]

I will be blunt here. I think you paid too much. That stone is going to be black.

 

[azelismia]

this is a run down of what she says the U.S Gemologic laboratory report says

The report comes with the ring. It''s a card with a picture of the ring and all it says is the estimated replacement value at $4,865. Description, which is one yellow gold ring stamped 14K with 4.65 ct sapphire that is oval cut, very good clarity, color fine, and .36 cts. diamonds (vs2-SI3 clarity g-h color)

 

[LostSapphire]

She's shining the LED light from underneath the stone. So of course it will look lighter blue in her photos.

The minute you put the ring on your hand there is no longer a light source coming through the stone...so it will darken up considerably. Even unset stones go darker the minute you put them on top of your hand.

I guess it depends on what you want. A dark stone? You've probably just bought yourself one. However, if you wanted one that is 'Royal Blue' on your hand, you may be disappointed.

It would be interesting to see photos once you get it: keep us posted!

LS

 

[chrono]

At least she is honest in describing the sapphires as "dark inky blue" which really means it''s going to black almost all the time. Back out of this transaction ASAP - it''s not even worth the setting nor the shipping, much less the hassle of returns and refunds.

 

[BWise]

In the new pictures you got, although you can see the color blue, there is barely any good facets on the pavilion that reflects the light back. I am also bothered d by the clarity of diamonds, VS2 - SI3, what exactly is the clarity then? Back out of it!

 

[T L]

I looked up the USGL reports on google (Underwriter services gemological laboratory), and I found some disparaging comments. I encourage you to google them as well. I will not say they are a good or bad laboratory, but I will say that some labs are known to give very very high replacement estimates that are not based in reality. These values should only be looked at for insurance purposes and not for true value (what you could sell it for).

 

[BWise]

To give you some context, here is something you can get for less than 750

sapphire ring

You see, they call this a sapphire too. The quality of sapphire can vary greatly. Bottom line, don't expect much for an unheated sapphire ring priced at 750

 

[azelismia]

I don''t really like that one. it''s too bright for my tastes. I do like dark, I just want to be able to see some blue too. that one just looks too new and the setting is too spare for me. I am looking for something more like the star sapphire setting I posted earlier and like this ring that we''re discussing. I just don''t want to pay too much.


I had searched for USGL but I hadn''t done a search with the name spelled out, yoikes! ok, I sent an email asking to be let out. that''s too clearly scary. I kind of like the dark stone but I am sort of getting the impression from everyone''s adamant stand on this that I can do better , or at least If I want a darker stone I can get one cheaper probably.

thanks!

(how does anyone ever successfully buy Jewlery??)

 

[azelismia]

How does this ring look for 595 pounds. it's 2 carat.

 

[chrono]

The blue is fairly ligh and bright; I thought you liked a deeper blue shade? There also appears to be a small window in the sapphire but overall, I much prefer this stone over the first one for that price point. I'm not fond of the setting though; it's quite chunky. I prefer more delicate settings.

 

[T L]

Date: 2/23/2009 4:47:58 AM
Author: azelismia
How does this ring look for 595 pounds. it's 2 carat.

Unfortunately, with sapphires, you need more than "how does this look?" This is because sapphires are one of the most treated, dyed, synthesized stones that exist today. If you are spending more than a few hundred dollars, I would want assurance that the stone is not diffused (dyed) in any way, or is synthetic, but tumbled and recut to make it look natural. Again, if I were you, I would stay away from auction houses like ebay for sapphires, and only buy from a reputable dealer. There is a link at the top of this forum with recommended colored gem dealers. By the way, I'm not saying that the stone you're showing is not from a reputable dealer, perhaps it is. However, if it is ebay, I would stay clear. Most sapphires sold today are treated with gentle heat and this is readily accepted in the trade, but diffused and synthetic sapphires are a different story.

595 pounds is a decent chunk of change and you want to make sure you're getting value for your money.

 

[movie zombie]

you get what you pay for and there are no real bargains on ebay unless you''re really knowledgeable and have developed a relationship with a seller. there is no way anyone would sell a $4800 ring for $750. the darker blue stones are even more expensive, unless they are so dark they''re black. i get the feeling from your posts that you''re not wanting to believe posters and want reassurance that its ok. your gut is telling you its not and many with a lot more experience are telling you its not.

what is the return policy with this vendor? how many days? is there a restocking fee? ultimately its your money and your point of view of what is attractive. the stone may be real, it may be irradiated, it may be glass: you won''t know until you have it evaluated yourself by someone other than the local jeweler. you will need a certified gemologist to determine its true worth.

if you like this ring then like it. you don''t need our approval. however, if you''re asking if you got the deal of a century, the answer is no. if the stone was actually as advertised and pictured, it would be selling for thousands all by itself w/o the setting.

sorry to be so blunt but i''m not sure you were ''hearing'' what the others were saying/writing.

mz

ps want to see some high end sapphires and read what constitutes a high end sapphire? see rwwise. com
poke around that website and take a look at his book. i''ve seen some high end sappires up close and personal and there really is a difference.

also, please don''t take the bluntness in my response or others as unwelcoming! this is a good place to get info and to find out what tradeoffs you''ll be making when selecting a color stone.

 

[azelismia]

I don''t think you actually read what I wrote if you didn''t think I was hearing what others were saying. I was asking questions. Supposedly they had a lab report and I thought that made a difference. I did cancel the sale if you didn''t notice. I don''t want to just "hear" others advice, I want to understand it and perhaps actually learn from it rather than just do as told. I also am not dim enough that I think insurance replacement value is the same thing as what actual retail is which is supposedly what the 4800 was on the other rock. that was why I was asking what the general value of the real world versus insurance replacement value was.

I do prefer darker but this lighter one goes nicely with the setting. it''s from a dealer in England not ebay. I prefer a mid chunky setting I think. Well sometimes I like chunky and sometimes almost dainty but never too dainty or too chunky It all depends I guess.

I probably won''t get that one in england but I just wanted to test the waters and see if that''s more along the lines of a better looking stone in that price point.

 

[movie zombie]

sorry if i misunderstood and while i didn''t think you were dim you''d be amazed at the many people who log into the color forum and think they''ve got the deal of the century......

do check out richard wise at rwwise.com and other sources as well. its always a tradeoff though as to pricepoint and what we can live with as most of us are not independently wealthy.

if you really liked that ring AND the seller had a very good return policy, it might have been worth it to have it sent to you and evaluated by an appropriate professional gemologist.

good luck with your search.

mz