Sapphire engagement rings for the bumbling idiot.

[gasdark]

Hello everyone,

I am newly in the market for a sapphire for an engagement ring and boy am I lost. Basically ive scoured tons of different retailers online, from ebay to major sapphire retailers to, allegedly, the websites of wholesale mines in australia. So far ive come to a few conclusions:

1) I probably want a stone that is primarily blue with light tinges of green, with a nice transparency and no obvious imperfections, circle cut (I think thats the term)

2) every stone that falls anywhere near that general description looks essentially indistinguishable from one another to my eye.

3) I would prefer an untreated stone in theory - but am also happy with a heated stone that looks as good as long as I pay much less for it.

4) and, perhaps most certain of all, I am convinced that no matter where I end up buying this thing, im going to be fleeced because from what I can tell, the selling of gems is second only to the selling of artwork in its subjectivity/sham potential.

So -the question is - where do I buy this thing? How do I know when ive pushed the price low enough? How can I trust whoever it is I buy it from.

Eventually, ill have to worry about a setting, but for now, its all about the stone. Keeping in mind I would rather put more money into the metal than into the rock so long as it looks good.

Thank you all!

 

[Edward Bristol]

4) and, perhaps most certain of all, I am convinced that no matter where I end up buying this thing, im going to be fleeced because from what I can tell, the selling of gems is second only to the selling of artwork in its subjectivity/sham potential.

Oh, no, before gems come perfume, watches, antique furniture, drugs (legal and illegal), candies, women handbags, high and low fashion, bottled water, vintage cars, Chinese plastic ware, skin cream, lottery, e-books, bank accounts, gym memberships, etc. etc.

 

[chrono]

Please look through here and tell us which one has the closest colour to what you are looking for. Don't worry about the shape, size or anything else for now and just focus on the colour so that we know exactly which shade you want. Does a "circle cut" mean a round shaped stone?
http://www.gemfix.com/sapphire_blue.html
http://www.africagems.com/bluesapphire.html
http://www.spectralgems.net/sapphire

If you point out several that you like, we can help you better distinguish one from the other in terms of colour. Slight nuances of colour can equal to huge dollar differences. If you are buying locally, it will be difficult for us to help you with pricing. We can help better with local purchases if you are good with using a camera or video so that we can also see what you see (up to a point). If online, many PSers can help guide you to get the best sapphire for your budget.

In a sense, pricing is somewhat subjective and depends on:
1. The 4 Cs, but the primary C is Colour.
2. Treatment
3. Overhead of the shop and profit margin (perhaps he/she bought high or low to begin with).

 

[gasdark]

Im at work right now, but the moment I have a chance I will totally look through here ad give you an idea of what im looking for. Im really excited to have help!

 

[LoversKites]

Im at work right now, but the moment I have a chance I will totally look through here ad give you an idea of what im looking for. Im really excited to have help!

You mentioned you are looking for greenish blue sapphires. I dunno how green you like or the level of saturation you want but Montana sapphires could be an option. Examples: http://www.gemfix.com/sapphire_montana.html

 

[gasdark]

Those are really very beautiful. Many of them are certainly big contenders in terms of color, and most of them in terms of transparency - they look gorgeous.

Right now I'm considering buying this from NSC:

http://www.thenaturalsapphirecompany.com/sapphires/c-14-curiosities/p-53015-round-curiosities-sapphire-cg121/

The current offer is roughyl $770. I'm going to see it in person tomorrow, which I think will be useful whatever the case.

I liked the color on it - but now I'm not sure because some of those montana stones seemed wildly effervescent.

Thoughts?

 

[LoversKites]

There have been mixed opinions and reviews about that company on here before. However, seeing it in person is ideal! Please report back if possible

 

[chrono]

Double posted.

 

[chrono]

I wasn't aware that you like bi-colour sapphires. NSC is on the more expensive side and there's been some debate regarding the level of customer service.

I like this bi-colour.
http://www.gemartservices.com/stones.php?id=monsapp002

Compare NSC's pricing to this similarly sized bi-colour, but also less overly dark.
http://www.gemartservices.com/stones.php?id=monsapp004

Another option
http://www.gemartservices.com/stones.php?id=monsapp005

 

[gasdark]

Haha - the truth is I didn't know I wanted a "bi-color" either - but yeah, I do think it's sort of mesmerizing as a color pattern.

I will definitely go through with the in person visit tomorrow, as it will be the first sapphire I've basically ever seen in person. But, Chrono, you're options are all really excellent. I would never have even found those services.

Query: Are the links you sent me to all firm pricing or is there ever any wiggle room? NSC came down 15% just at the question of negotiability, let alone a direct counter offer. Is this the norm?

(Sidenote: I liked the bi color from NSC particularly because I had a fleeting fancy to build a ring with a central, kind of clearly delineated bi color stone (i.e. light green, into light blue, into light green) sandwiched on each side by stones that match the lighter edges of the central stone. Does this sound like a good idea? I might be overthinking it).

 

[LoversKites]

Query: Are the links you sent me to all firm pricing or is there ever any wiggle room? NSC came down 15% just at the question of negotiability, let alone a direct counter offer. Is this the norm?

Depends on the vendor. Some are firmer than others. I once asked a vendor the lowest price they're willing to offer me for a stone (albeit a rather cheap one) and the price was slashed by almost half Never hurts to ask.

 

[chrono]

The vendors I listed are those many PSers have used often and found the stones, customer service and pricing to be more than agreeable. Have fun at NSC tomorrow; who knows what else you might discover that you like! Wiggle room on pricing varies from vendor to vendor. Gemfix does not negotiate. I'm not sure about Jerry (Gemart). As always, it never hurts to ask! NSC is expensive to begin with so they can certainly afford to offer potential buyers a discount.

I would suggest viewing sapphires at NSC under various lighting (natural - diffused and direct, fluorescent, incandescent, halogen, and etc) because sapphires are shifty creatures. Sometimes they don't look so good indoors or might shift to an unexpected colour that you might not like.

 

[velouriaL]

I was coming on to recommend this one:
http://www.gemartservices.com/stones.php?id=monsapp002
which I am obsessed with and would love to buy if I had the need, but I seen Chrono already beat me to it!

I don't know if you care about these things, but with Gem Art Services, you're dealing with an artisan-businessman who cuts most of the stones he sells himself-- and cuts them REALLY well. In this case, he even designed the pattern of the cut! I think that is REALLY cool. Plus, and I've said this a million times before, I think the idea of a Montana sapphire is awesome. To me, it's cool and "ethical" from a variety of fronts to have a stone that is mined and cut in America. Plus, especially because you like blue-greens and interesting color mixes, I think you'll find it very beautiful.

You can ask Jerry to go down, but be aware that Montanas do command a premium because nice larger ones are quite rare.

I get nothing out of trying to "sell" on this stone except HOPEFULLY getting to see pictures of the stone set and on your GF's hand. I get my gem pleasures vicariously most of the time.

 

[movie zombie]

good grief but I see why that Montana is lusted over/for/drooling as I type.....

reasonable price as well.

 

[pregcurious]

4) and, perhaps most certain of all, I am convinced that no matter where I end up buying this thing, im going to be fleeced because from what I can tell, the selling of gems is second only to the selling of artwork in its subjectivity/sham potential.

Oh, no, before gems come perfume, watches, antique furniture, drugs (legal and illegal), candies, women handbags, high and low fashion, bottled water, vintage cars, Chinese plastic ware, skin cream, lottery, e-books, bank accounts, gym memberships, etc. etc.

HAHAHAHA!

 

[GliderPoss]

If you want bi-coloured AKA parti-sapphires then Australian sapphires really are lovely. I recommend you contact Jim or Jenny from http://www.coolamonsapphires.com/ who are experts in this particular field. I've seen their stock in person and it's fantastic and well priced. I'd drop them an email and let them show you a selection.

 

[velouriaL]

4) and, perhaps most certain of all, I am convinced that no matter where I end up buying this thing, im going to be fleeced because from what I can tell, the selling of gems is second only to the selling of artwork in its subjectivity/sham potential.

Oh, no, before gems come perfume, watches, antique furniture, drugs (legal and illegal), candies, women handbags, high and low fashion, bottled water, vintage cars, Chinese plastic ware, skin cream, lottery, e-books, bank accounts, gym memberships, etc. etc.

I actively enjoy a shamefully large number of those things.

 

[movie zombie]

yes, AU sapphires are definitely to lust for but the OP may need to bump up his budget. I find them dark unless one spends a bit more.

 

[gasdark]

I'm going to do that. Best to get out multiple feelers at this stage

 

[gasdark]

So I just got done at nsc and have come to some conclusions. 1) I definitely dony care about heat treatment - the idea of an individual of normal means buying one of these as som esome kskind of strategic investmeny is is wacko. 2) with that in mind I want to get the most bang for my buck so to speak, and although I really appreciate their help and the ability to observe stones in person, at the prices I was quoted per carat im not sure how I could legitimize buying there.

3. So, ive reached out to some of the other sapphire selling companies that were suggested as of yesterday, but havent gotten any replies as yet.

The question for me now is where do I go from here? I want to keep investigating options, and not loose gems like the awesome fantasy cut chronk recommended , but other . Than buying the stone and returning it im not sure how to even catch a glimpse. Thoughts?

(SSorry for the horrible grammer on monmy phone and the forum text boxes are r wreaking havoc on my keyboard for some reason)

 

[ephsea]

It's okay to order things and return them! Any reputable vendor is used to that, happens all the time.
You could also try Blazengems.com. They are a little more wholesale in terms of price/service, but do have a staggering selection of Montana sapphires at prices from low to average.

 

[gasdark]

So, no response yet from the other vendors. However, I started to look at the various other gemstones that are available and, after seeing the sapphires in person, I'm beginning to think that there are cheaper stones, with equal or greater beauty, that might do just as well.

Zircon for instance has some very beautiful blues that certainly rival the sapphires I saw yesterday:

http://www.gemfix.com/zircon_blue.html

And Apatite is similary right in the color range I'd like and well priced - although the stones seem to be quite big in general:

http://www.gemfix.com/apatite.html

And for that matter, I've never even realized how beautiful opals can b, although I guess they're not really fitting for an E-ring:

http://www.gemfix.com/opal_solid.html


I'm just overwhelmed by this flood of new knowledge about gemstones in general - but if you all wanted to pick a vivacious stone for an e-ring that didn't fall into the big four (Diamond, ruby, emerald or sapphire - arguably tanzanite) what would it be?

 

[movie zombie]

your replacement stones for a sapphire are way too soft!
they will not hold up or last very long.
they will not stand up to 24/7 wear and might not even hold up on intermittent wear.
face it: your fiancé will want to wear her ring a lot and she will end up with a beater.
blunt notation: imo this hasn't turned into a hunt for the best you can afford as much as a how little can I spend to get through this.

this search has revolved around you and your desire to not get ripped off.
while I understand this desire [because who does want to get ripped off?] I wonder what your soon to be fiancé wants for an e-ring.

I would also suggest that you consider a sapphire cab......unfaceted stone that will cost less than a faceted sapphire.

the thing you don't want to happen is for her to feel like she settled for less and in a year or two have her telling you she really wanted "x, y or z" and/or that she wants an "upgrade".

do it right FOR HER the first time and be done with it.

sorry to be so blunt but I've been reading this thread and shaking my head.
please know that I found this website because like you I didn't want us to be ripped off and I was researching diamonds.
I found out by trying on lots of diamonds that I found them boring.
and got turned on by color stones in this very forum.
also, please know that we had been married 1.5 years with small 2mm 18k gold wedding bands when I told my husband I really would have liked an e-ring....and he said, "let's do it". when I decided on a color stone his only concern was that I was "settling for less" and that I wouldn't be happy over time.

set a budget.
decide to make her happy within that budget.
think outside the box and look at cabs, not just faceted stones.
get the best you can afford and don't look back.

oh, and my e-ring? I got an 8.18 carat ORANGE spessartite garnet that CANNOT and IS NOT worn 24/7. depending on what your soon to be fiancé does for a living it might not be appropriate as the MOH for it is only about 7.5.

I know the info is overwhelming....we've all been there.

again, the important thing is "what does your GF want?"
and how can you make that work within your budget.

eta: I'm glad you found pricescope and particularly this forum! finding a color stone e-ring is LOTS harder than going for a diamond....I think you've already found that out!

 

[gasdark]

I appreciate the in depth response, and absolutely agree that getting something she will enjoy is paramount.

The thing is, she is not the sort of person to want an expensive ring.

In fact, when she found out that a family member was buying a $1300 ring, she was astonished by the price tag.

Which is to say, my focus on cost reduction is not just me being cheap for cheapness's sake - it's me trying to harmonize the desire for something beautiful for a woman who would much prefer I throw $1500 into a nice trip than into a ring.

Hence my search for a replacement stone that still has an exciting and different look and feel to it.

At the end of the day, if gemart services gets back to me on the sapphire that's been suggested, I may just bite the bullet so to speak and buy that, because it is very beautiful.

But, in the interim, I am very interested in looking for other possibilities that achieve physical beauty and costs effectiveness, under the auspices that this is in line with what I believe she would want.

I do appreciate your insight though, and I think it is absolutely appropriate to recenter this process around her desires, lest the search turns into rummaging through the garbage bin .

 

[movie zombie]

thank you for understanding my post!
I know I am blunt but I also want the best for you both....and so do you!

a MOH scale will be helpful to you: http://www.amfed.org/t_mohs.htm

however, the MOH scale isn't enough: one has to understand cleavage and why a MOH 8 for emerald and aquamarine still isn't good enough for those stones. http://www.allaboutgemstones.com/gemstone_cleavage.html more than you would want to ever know re cleavage.

sapphire is an excellent choice because as you will note at the bottom of that last line there is no cleavage AND it is an 8 on the MOH's chart. good bang for the buck re durability!

note: all stones...even diamonds....can and will break, chip, etc. if hit just right/wrong.

your GF sounds like a practical woman who has not spent time ogling jewelry and thus has no idea of what it costs.
and I'm with you on spending $ on a trip/experience rather than a "thing".
however, this thing represents your intention to marry and she'll be wearing it a long time.
be practical, not cheap.....big difference.

and being that she is a practical woman I'm betting she might find cabs worth investigating.

ring probably isn't her style but it certainly has a nice blue sapphire cab and I offer it only to show that a faceted stone isn't always "best": https://www.etsy.com/listing/175066...phire&ga_search_type=all&ga_view_type=gallery

 

[gasdark]

The cab is very elegant looking, and it's true, some of these gems I've looked at are so glamorous and shiny that they almost look like they're fake somehow. (I think this might be a symptom of my own lack of exposure to real quality jewelry and gems - the shinier a thing is the more it evokes images of a swarovski crystal or something.)

The more I think about it the more I would really love to get my hands on this sapphire that was suggested before:

http://www.gemartservices.com/stones.php?id=monsapp002

It might not, in the end, be the winner, but the look of it, both in terms of color and it's exotic cut, seems like it might be perfect. And the price is excellent if the stone lives up to the picture. I almost want to buy it now so that it doesn't sell out while I wait for a response from the company. But I have no idea whether they accept returns, and whether or not that's an immense hassle - and the last thing I want is to be saddled with an $800 stone I don't want.

Has anyone bought from gemartservices before? Made any returns? Can attest to the veracity of the photos?

 

[deskjockey]

Has anyone bought from gemartservices before? Made any returns? Can attest to the veracity of the photos?

I recently bought an itty bitty stone from him. The photos were very accurate, the cut is fantastic, and everything was exactly as described. I didn't have to make a return but as far as I know he takes them and it's pretty easy. He's a nice guy to deal with.

I'd also recommend you search this forum for "montana sapphire" as there are a number of interesting ones that different users have purchased. At least one was similar to the one you've pointed out, and she got it put in a nice bezel if I remember correctly. Very pretty ring.

 

[velouriaL]

I had bought from Gem Art Services before and they're great. Pictures are accurate. Never made any returns. I'm surprised you haven't heard back. I would send a follow-up email to [email protected] because one I contacted them using the contact link and it didn't work.
The stone you like has some little sisters:
http://www.gemartservices.com/stones.php?id=monsapp004
http://www.gemartservices.com/stones.php?id=monsapp004

Dana at Mastercutgems.com also has some excellent deals on sapphires. IMO, his pictures tend to not do justice to the stones. He is also wonderful to work with and easy to return to. He has a large back catalog and may have things that aren't on his site, so you can email him.

I know you're looking for the best deal, but the best deal is something in your budget (which is what? $800? $1000? $1500?) that you LIKE.

We can help you find the best sapphire for your money, then help you set it at a reasonable price, but you and your fiancee might not actually care about getting the very best sapphire. For you guys, a pretty, well-made ring set with a perfectly fine sapphire might be good enough. For some people (like most of us), the ring is meant to showcase the stone. For other people, especially those who are very practical about jewelry expenses, the stone is just a component of a the ring, which is just a romantic token. For example, a dear friend recently received as an engagement ring a ring from 1890 that had cool engraving and a tiny (like, 3mm) sapphire in it. She was thrilled. To her, it was amazing to have something that old as symbol of her engagement. It was really pretty, too, and just her style. I think her fiancee paid about $500 for her ring. Is the gold and the stone itself "worth" $500? Probably not. But to them, the total package was. In fact, it was a great deal. (It looked a lot like this: https://www.etsy.com/listing/172269315/danusharose-vintage-14-k-wg-yellow?ref=sr_gallery_41&ga_search_query=sapphire+engagement+ring&ga_order=most_relevant&ga_max=1200&ga_page=2&ga_search_type=vintage&ga_view_type=gallery)

Of course, and this is CRUCIAL, you have to consider her taste. I don't know her GF so I don't know. Would *I* have been happy with the 1890 ring above? Maybe not. If someone wanted to get me a $500 ring, I'd probably suggest a more sizable chrysoberyl or grayish spinel in a Diamond Zone setting like the one Neil helped her brother get his gf. You have to know what she likes!

So I would say...
Are there any antique dealers or shows near you? You might want to scope them out. If you set your budget and stick to it and pound the pavement, I think you might find something locally that you like.

Watch the return policy of course, but maybe you'll find something on etsy, both antique and newly-made settings. You can also narrow your search to your area, so that perhaps you can arrange to see the rings in person.

At the $1000ish range, here are some things that I think are pretty and decent deals, though I didn't look SUPER closely at them, so if you see something you like, do more digging! Note a lot of these gems aren't up to pricescope standards, but they will probably look nice to the ordinary person... Also note that some people will find some of these rings ugly and some people will fall in love with them. They just demonstrate the range of things that are out there:

https://www.etsy.com/listing/167167208/cornflower-blue-ceylon-sapphire-in (not antique, a vendor growing in popularity on here)
https://www.etsy.com/listing/154511470/rose-cut-blue-sapphire-and-rose-gold (see above)
https://www.etsy.com/listing/190207008/edwardian-sapphire-diamond-engagement
https://www.etsy.com/listing/187756121/antique-old-european-cut-diamond-and
https://www.etsy.com/listing/106867238/blue-sapphire-gemstone-ring-september
https://www.etsy.com/ca/listing/190847466/antique-sapphire-engagement-ring-with
https://www.etsy.com/listing/184389064/vintage-18k-art-deco-old-mine-cut
https://www.etsy.com/listing/184102315/art-deco-daisy-ring-sapphire-diamonds

ETA: I personally would be very happy with this one: https://www.etsy.com/listing/167167208/cornflower-blue-ceylon-sapphire-in or maybe this one: https://www.etsy.com/listing/190207008/edwardian-sapphire-diamond-engagement

These are just some I found after literally 10 minutes of searching...

ETA:
Another shop that people on here have had success with is Cecile Raley on etsy. She seems to have nice stones, workmanship, and prices. In addition to these, I'd e-mail her about custom:
https://www.etsy.com/listing/191609671/victorian-inspired-scalloped-ring-in-14
https://www.etsy.com/listing/181194138/rose-gold-and-ceylon-sapphire-halo-ring (I really like this one a lot)

 

[gasdark]

So, it turns out that Jerry from gemart services was trying to respond to my emails, but it wasn't coming through for some reason. I called him up and he resent his response to a different email address, including really great looking pictures in daylight:



After speaking to him on the phone and seeing the pictures, and finding out where the stone was sourced from and his method of cutting it and just generally his openness to questioning, I decided to put a deposit down and have it shipped out to me.

I am very excited to see it in person.

Thank you all for the suggestions so far. This site and all of you have been so helpful in turning this into something manageable and human, and I really appreciate it.

 

[ephsea]

Oooh that's super-pretty! G I hope she loves it - but if not Jerry will take a return and you'll know more about what she does/doesn't like for the next round.