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Sapphire dimensions and carat weight

swcoguy

Rough_Rock
Joined
Nov 12, 2015
Messages
8
First timer here. Looking at buying a sapphire for an engagement ring and wondering about dimensions and carat weight for a ceylon sapphire I'm looking at.

It's a cushion mixed cut with dimensions of 4.5 x 4.9 x 3.2mm. My concern is the report claims 1.35cts and from everything else I've looked at that seems really high. Is that carat weight possible with a stone of that size? We really like the stone, but want to make sure it is legitimate.

Thanks
 

minousbijoux

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Aug 5, 2010
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12,824
You are wise to be confused by that as it should be under a carat in weight.
 

Jajabis

Rough_Rock
Joined
Sep 8, 2015
Messages
46
http://www.csgnetwork.com/caratwtcalc.html

Pretty easy to use.

It's about half weight that you're being told. I wouldn't even try to deal with them after finding this out. If the price seems too good to be true, it normally is. I've found many local jewelry shops to be pushy because if you do a little research you find out they are ripping you off!
 

chrono

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
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Apr 22, 2004
Messages
38,364
The weight is well under 1 ct, when I take all the dimensions into consideration. Either the vendor provided you the incorrect report accidentally or the vendor is trying to scam you. I do not know the vendor so the first thing to do is inquire with the vendor to make sure it is/isn't a mistake on their part.
 

lovedogs

Super_Ideal_Rock
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18,498
Agreed with Chrono on this. Hopefully the vendor wasn't aiming to scam you, but that carat weight is definitely off, so something is amiss here :confused:

But just double check with them because mistakes definitely do happen. Let us know what you hear!
 

swcoguy

Rough_Rock
Joined
Nov 12, 2015
Messages
8
Thank you all for your replies. I should have figured there was an online calculator, there's a calculator for everything these days!

A little backstory. I live in a small town and we don't have any good jewelers and nobody that can secure a good quality stone. I found someone who appears to be a reputable jeweler and asked them to help source a stone. They found the stone, which me and my fiancé to be really liked for shape, color and clarity and the size - about 5.5mm square and 1.3ct. Because this is online, I asked to have the stone certified and the jeweler brought it to gemologist for a report. When the report came back the stone was significantly smaller and the carat weight went up. Also the report included some language that seemed non-standard based on the reports I've seen.

All this made me suspicious and I ended up here. My concern is that the jeweler and gemologist are in cahoots, but even if they are not it feels prudent to move on and find another jeweler and to source a certified stone from a reputable vendor.

I've already gleaned some great resources from this site!

Thanks
 

chrono

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Apr 22, 2004
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38,364
Hope I'm not being too nosy for asking these questions:

1. It isn't clear to me whether you asked a local jeweller or an online jeweller to help you source a stone.
2. Who chose the gemmologist? Why a gemmologist over an independent and world recognized lab like AGL, GIA, etc?
3. I presume the stone looked the same when it came back? Same size and etc, only that the report didn't look right?
4. Are you open to having the regulars here assist you in your quest for your sapphire?
 

swcoguy

Rough_Rock
Joined
Nov 12, 2015
Messages
8
Chrono|1447442863|3949338 said:
Hope I'm not being too nosy for asking these questions:
Thanks for your reply Chromo. Not being too nosy at all.

Chrono|1447442863|3949338 said:
1. It isn't clear to me whether you asked a local jeweller or an online jeweller to help you source a stone.
It was the online jeweler that helped to source the stone in question.

Chrono|1447442863|3949338 said:
2. Who chose the gemmologist? Why a gemmologist over an independent and world recognized lab like AGL, GIA, etc?
The jeweler chose the gemologist. The gemologist is supposedly certified by CGA (Canadian Gemological Association). I have been unable to verify this information.

Chrono|1447442863|3949338 said:
3. I presume the stone looked the same when it came back? Same size and etc, only that the report didn't look right?
The stone that is pictured in the gemologist's report is the same as the one that was presented to me (in pictures) by the jeweler.

Chrono|1447442863|3949338 said:
4. Are you open to having the regulars here assist you in your quest for your sapphire?
Very much! Since this is for an engagement ring I want the stone and setting to be perfect. I realize this all may have been an honest mistake on either the jeweler's part, or by the gemmologist, but once the feeling of trust is questioned there is no going back and look forward to the advice of the regular members here.
 

chrono

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Since I think you are Canadian, there are taxes and shipping considerations should we suggest a US based supplier. I presume you would prefer to deal with a Canadian vendor, especially given the conversion rate as well?

There is a strong conflict of interest when the jeweller chooses the gemmologist. Anyone verifying a diamond or coloured stone on behalf of the customer should be independent and not have any connection to the seller.
 

Jajabis

Rough_Rock
Joined
Sep 8, 2015
Messages
46
I second number 4! I had great experience buying online. "first time"
Things to consider.
1- Size of a diamond is different from the size of a sapphire by carat weight. Size=Dimensions.
~1 carat diamond cushion will be about L -6.5mm x W-5.5mm
~ A sapphire with 6.59L x 5.85W is 1.87 Ct. While you kinda get the idea, these stones might be cut a tad bit different.
2 - What tone/saturation are you looking for?

sapphirecolor04.jpg

3 - Does it have to be a ceylon sapphire? There are plenty of mines around the world that offer the just as beautiful sapphires
~Ceylon sapphires come from Sri Lanka

4 - Are you sure on the cushion cut?

5 - Are you looking for a sapphire with green or maybe purple in the blue or just pure blue?

6 - Estimated budget.

I don't know if i put everything that should help others kinda steer you towards some stones.
 

ElleK

Shiny_Rock
Trade
Joined
Feb 5, 2015
Messages
239
Do you have any pictures of this sapphire?

While, theoretically it sounds like it should be lighter in carat weight, it's also possible that the belly is very bloated with weight. I have a sapphire that weighs almost 2 carats, but faces up the size of a sub carat stone. Pictures would help the posters here decipher more clues about it.
 

swcoguy

Rough_Rock
Joined
Nov 12, 2015
Messages
8
Chrono|1447445008|3949354 said:
Since I think you are Canadian, there are taxes and shipping considerations should we suggest a US based supplier. I presume you would prefer to deal with a Canadian vendor, especially given the conversion rate as well?

There is a strong conflict of interest when the jeweller chooses the gemmologist. Anyone verifying a diamond or coloured stone on behalf of the customer should be independent and not have any connection to the seller.

Actually, I'm from the US and as it happens the jeweler is located in Canada. Agreed on the potential conflict of interest.
Thanks!
 

lovedogs

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
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Jul 31, 2014
Messages
18,498
Not knowing your budget or preferred color I'm just throwing something out there that I've been admiring on Facebook. Cut by Jeff Davies who is well known on the forums and has a great reputation. It's pricey, but if it's in your budget then I'm sure it'll be worth the cost since it looks incredible IMHO.

Here's Jeff's Description and cost:

2.08ct blue Sapphire - Ceylon
7.18 x 4.82 mm,
clean, custom cut,
$1975 including shipping

12240443_894485567337425_7481284892992587964_o.jpg 10383552_894485804004068_8417835880344585039_n.jpg

There are certainly tons of more budget friendly options, but this is one that particularly caught my eye as being well cut and a great color :)
 

swcoguy

Rough_Rock
Joined
Nov 12, 2015
Messages
8
Jajabis|1447445294|3949355 said:
I second number 4! I had great experience buying online. "first time"
Things to consider.
1- Size of a diamond is different from the size of a sapphire by carat weight. Size=Dimensions.
~1 carat diamond cushion will be about L -6.5mm x W-5.5mm
~ A sapphire with 6.59L x 5.85W is 1.87 Ct. While you kinda get the idea, these stones might be cut a tad bit different.
2 - What tone/saturation are you looking for?

sapphirecolor04.jpg

3 - Does it have to be a ceylon sapphire? There are plenty of mines around the world that offer the just as beautiful sapphires
~Ceylon sapphires come from Sri Lanka

4 - Are you sure on the cushion cut?

5 - Are you looking for a sapphire with green or maybe purple in the blue or just pure blue?

6 - Estimated budget.

I don't know if i put everything that should help others kinda steer you towards some stones.


1. see below

2. Based on the stones we've looked at I estimate the top right 4 are in running. It seems like there are number of ways to consider color and we are attracted to "medium" blues with a lot of brilliance. She's blond with light blue eyes so moving slightly towards the lighter, very slightly violet part of the spectrum could be okay.

So maybe the best explanation is Medium, Blue to blue with a tinge of violet and vivid.

3. No. She's big on "conflict free" so any suggestions in this regard would be great.

4. She wants a "lower profile" ring so this cut seems like a good way to get a shallower depth and it still being brilliant. Recently saw some "Portuguese" style cuts on gem fix that seem to have great brilliance.

5. Could go slightly towards the purple/violet side of the spectrum is okay.

6. Budget of around 10K USD is okay. She has small hands and wants a low profile ring so the stone can't be huge. Metal will be platinum.

ElleW|1447447183|3949366 said:
Do you have any pictures of this sapphire?

While, theoretically it sounds like it should be lighter in carat weight, it's also possible that the belly is very bloated with weight. I have a sapphire that weighs almost 2 carats, but faces up the size of a sub carat stone. Pictures would help the posters here decipher more clues about it.

I want to believe that this is an error, but even if it has a "Ex Bulging" belly it only comes in at 0.86ct max. Physics is physics.
Calculator

I've moved on regarding this vendor and no longer concerned about that stone, so no pictures for now. I am looking forward to advice on finding the right stone and jeweler.

Thanks!
 

swcoguy

Rough_Rock
Joined
Nov 12, 2015
Messages
8
lovedogs|1447457793|3949416 said:
Not knowing your budget or preferred color I'm just throwing something out there that I've been admiring on Facebook. Cut by Jeff Davies who is well known on the forums and has a great reputation. It's pricey, but if it's in your budget then I'm sure it'll be worth the cost since it looks incredible IMHO.

Here's Jeff's Description and cost:

2.08ct blue Sapphire - Ceylon
7.18 x 4.82 mm,
clean, custom cut,
$1975 including shipping

There are certainly tons of more budget friendly options, but this is one that particularly caught my eye as being well cut and a great color :)

That's beautiful! Slightly lighter than we were looking at, but it would look stunning on her! Thank you!

Is there a link to his post can share?

EDIT: Found his website. Thanks!

Thanks
 

ElleK

Shiny_Rock
Trade
Joined
Feb 5, 2015
Messages
239
If you give an idea of your geographic location, posters might be able to suggest retailers near you. Not all vendors are in big cities.
 

swcoguy

Rough_Rock
Joined
Nov 12, 2015
Messages
8
ElleW|1447458967|3949419 said:
If you give an idea of your geographic location, posters might be able to suggest retailers near you. Not all vendors are in big cities.

Durango Colorado. I fly through Denver *a lot* so it would be the best option for a larger city.
 

lovedogs

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jul 31, 2014
Messages
18,498
Glad to help :)

Another place you could look at is Mastercut gems (also on the trusted vendor list). They have sapphires listed under both the "sapphire" section, and the Sri Lanka Gems section (although those are typically pricier).
 
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