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Sacrificing for Size

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erainman

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 19, 2007
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Hello all,

I''m interested in buying a two-carat round diamond for an engagement ring. From what I can gather, to keep the price of a larger stone like this somewhat reasonable, I can sacrifice some color by staying in the H-J range and the diamond will still look "white" so long as it''s not sitting next to a D,E,F, and I can sacrifice some clarity by staying in the SI1-SI2 range and the diamond will still look "clear". I''ve been told that I should not sacrifice on cut because a well-cut stone can make up for less clarity and/or color, and that even a colorless/IF stone can look bad if cut poorly.

The problem is, I have absolutely no idea how to gauge "cut" since I don''t really know how to analyze table, girdle, etc. percentages and proportions and there doesn''t seem to be an easy way to determine whether a stone is cut well or not. Do I have to simply commit to learning this, or is there an easy way to make sure I get a well-cut stone? I don''t think I need specialty "hearts and arrows" or anything; I just want the thing to sparkle!

Thanks a ton!
 
I think there are a bunch of tutorials on cut issues. It''s easier to answer questions if you read up a bit and then ask more specific questions...
 
There is a search by cut function on pscope above. There is also a tutorial you can read here, and another good one at goodoldgold (a pricescope vendor that sells ideal cut diamonds). And under tools above, there is a cut advisor that will give you a recommendation after you type numbers in from a diamond cert.

You should also eyeball some diamonds in person at a local store to get an idea of your own preferences. Though they are outrageously expensive, if you go somewhere that sells Hearts on Fire diamonds you can see how their light performance is much better than average cut diamonds. You also should ask to see the different between colorless and near colorless stones, in regular cut and ideal cut. If you are going to shop locally, you might want to buy an idealscope light reflector to help evaluate stones.

There are devotees here that love their 2+ ct Js, but there are some people that prefer higher color even for ideal cut stones, as a J ideal cut will look different than a D ideal cut. Its just a question of if that difference is worth booku bucks to you or not.
 
Do I have to simply commit to learning this, or is there an easy way to make sure I get a well-cut stone?
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Of course there''s an easy way. Read some of the testimonials, see which vendors have happy customers and good reputations for supplying well-cut diamonds, and give them a call. There''s no reason not to put the professionals to work on your behalf unless you really *want* to learn all the numbers.
 
Yeah, babeee, yeah!
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I like your priorities
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They're mine, too. I have a 2.36 RB J/SI2 that I adore. Here's a link with photos:

https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/finally-gorgeous-new-fishtail-pave-set-from-wf.46129/

Shopping for a diamond can seem daunting, true... but here's a really easy short-cut. If you go with an AGS-0 stone, you have virtually zero chance of getting anything other than a killer, beautiful diamond. Probably the same can be said for GIA "Excellent", but I don't have any personal experience with those. I have owned six AGS-0 diamonds so far, in color and clarity grades from G to K and VS1 to SI2 and every single one has been gorgeous and stunning.

If you find a few stones in your budget that you like, you can bring them here and we can split hairs and help you decide!

BTW, here's a link to my recent stud upgrade, both K's, and they are firecrackers!
https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/winters-coming-needed-new-ear-warming-studs-1-47-tcw.72105/

So obviously, I totally agree with you; making CUT my priority, I am more than willing to *compromise* color and clarity to get the SIZE I love. (Personally, I don't say "sacrifice"... afterall, we are talking about very expensive 100% luxury items... somehow "sacrifice" just doesn't seem to *fit*!
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). Anyway, I have been doing that for a few years now and haven't made a single purchase I have regretted yet.
 
I think you have gotten some pretty good feedback on cut so far. I concur, that an extemely nice cut can make up for/ hide the slightly yellow tinge in H-I-J range and I would personally buy SI1 or SI2 (I would rather spend the $ on more visual things). The other factor that can make a diamond "face up" whiter is faint or medium blue fluorescence in some stones. ..with the exception of "overblues" ie. strong blue or very strong blue fluorescence that can give a diamond a hazy appearance, but I don't think these are extremely common. I percieve color extremely easy and I am stuck on the colorless range, BUT I have seen a few H or I colors + fluorescence + superb cut , that would tempt me. Good Luck!

I also concur with the AGS 0's. Or if the stone has a GIA report ask for a "sarin report" with AGS grading system. I don't personally like how GIA calls some "very questionable" cut stones Excellent for cut grade, in my opinion.
 
I would personally rather have a whiter stone, but each to his/her own. In regards to cut, this is something you can visually determine and IMO that''s what matters most because dimensions, ratios, etc can decieve you although they are very, very strong indicators of a well cut stone. If you are web shopping (or even doing it in person), insist on an idealscope and ASET report to help you determine. Both show characteristics of well cut stones. Also there is another one (forgetting the name right now) but it shows brilliance, white light and color light values. Those that score in the high to very high range are a good choice.

If you are having a hard time getting a 2ct stone in your price range and have sacrificed so much I might mention going with an EGL cert. I know many here will gasp at this thought. The reasoning is simple, EGL has been known to "grade light" on their certs making them appear to be a higher quality they are by GIA or AGS standards. HOWEVER, on a report I read here on this website, this appears to be mainly related to color and not the other properties. For more info how the different lab certs affect pricing and the results of Pricescope''s own findings in variance between the labs, read these 2 articles:

http://diamonds.pricescope.com/labs.asp

http://grading.pricescope.com/

You stand to save some money by buying an EGL stone but be careful and stay at least 1 color range better than your normal range. In your case, look at G-I stones instead of H-J stones.

Now I''ll wait for the others to cast stones at me for even recommending EGL stones, but I do believe value can be found as long as you are a careful consumer.
 
Thank you everyone so far for your thoughts and opinions! Lynn--your stone is a KNOCKOUT! If I could find a stone for my girlfriend that looks as nice as yours does, she''d probably lose it (in a good way!)

How much is too much to spend on a well-cut 2.0 round I-J stone (SI1-SI2)? Should I be able to get sometihng in the 10-12K ballpark?
 
How much is too much to spend on a well-cut 2.0 round I-J stone (SI1-SI2)? Should I be able to get sometihng in the 10-12K ballpark?
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I think that may be fairly difficult. If you bump that amount up just a few thousand than you''ll have a much better selection.

Also, just to make sure that if you''re buying it for your girlfriend that you''re sure size is her top criteria?
 
Date: 1/22/2008 7:20:06 PM
Author: erainman
Thank you everyone so far for your thoughts and opinions! Lynn--your stone is a KNOCKOUT! If I could find a stone for my girlfriend that looks as nice as yours does, she''d probably lose it (in a good way!)

How much is too much to spend on a well-cut 2.0 round I-J stone (SI1-SI2)? Should I be able to get sometihng in the 10-12K ballpark?
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Thanks, erainman! I''m glad you "approve"!
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Hmmmm, I am really out of the "pricing" loupe, but I paid more several years ago than your "ballpark" figures above. You can do a search from the PS home page and get a good idea of current prices.

Keep us posted!
 
Another thought I had....how important is it to be a "true" 2ct stone? Would a 1.85ct or 1.90ct stone be close enough? Stones that fall close but not quite within the "target" ranges of 1ct, 2ct, etc. can sometimes be had for a lot better price because technically they aren''t 2ct stones but there''s so little difference to the naked eye in a sense they really are 2ct to the normal Joe. Besides, if you show it, are you really going to say 1.9ct or simply 2cts?

Follow the link below for more information on sizing of stones. It gives a graphical representation of what you can expect in the different stones. There is only .8mm between a 1.5ct and 2ct stone. Not much. If you hit a 1.75+ I don''t even think you''d notice.

http://images.amazon.com/media/i3d/01/actual-diamond-size.pdf
 
Yes, the GF''s priority is definitely size. I think the reality is that no matter how big or small someone''s diamond is, people will always think and say that "it''s so pretty!" So, while every diamond is always going to be "pretty" (i mean, there''s no such thing as an ugly diamond, right--just pretty, prettier, prettiest
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), a bigger stone just means more of it!


How about this one:

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/J-SI2-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1125425.asp?b=16&a=12&c=77&cid=131

I found it on a PS cut quality search (I-J, VS1-SI2, 2.0-2.2ct). It''s an AGS "0" like Lynn suggested and it seems to fit right into my price range at $11,390 on PS (it''s also listed at a much lower price than the others that came through on the search). Have I found a great bargain or am I missing something?

Thanks!
 
Date: 1/22/2008 7:53:08 PM
Author: erainman
Yes, the GF's priority is definitely size. I think the reality is that no matter how big or small someone's diamond is, people will always think and say that 'it's so pretty!' So, while every diamond is always going to be 'pretty' (i mean, there's no such thing as an ugly diamond, right--just pretty, prettier, prettiest
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), a bigger stone just means more of it!



How about this one:


http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/J-SI2-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1125425.asp?b=16&a=12&c=77&cid=131


I found it on a PS cut quality search (I-J, VS1-SI2, 2.0-2.2ct). It's an AGS '0' like Lynn suggested and it seems to fit right into my price range at $11,390 on PS (it's also listed at a much lower price than the others that came through on the search). Have I found a great bargain or am I missing something?


Thanks!
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Honestly? It looks like it has a lot of stuff in it! Did you look at the magnified image? Not super nice...

This one is just a bit more and could be a lot nicer. There is a lot of variation in Si2s.


http://www.dimendscaasi.com/diamonds/diamondDetail.asp?stockNum=830175G
 
If you''d consider a J - here''s one that for some reason is not showing up on the PS search, but it an AGS0 1.77 SI1 J. With the Pricescope discount, you''d be well below budget
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http://www.whiteflash.com/hearts_arrows/A-Cut-Above-H-A-cut-diamond-584855.htm

I just purchased an upgrade and it''s an AGS0 1.73 SI1 J and I ablsolutely love it. The color is no problem for me as it faces up nice and white! You can see it here: https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/my-mini-upgrade-from-good-old-gold.76953/

Best wishes!!!
 
Date: 1/22/2008 7:53:08 PM
Author: erainman
Yes, the GF''s priority is definitely size. I think the reality is that no matter how big or small someone''s diamond is, people will always think and say that ''it''s so pretty!'' So, while every diamond is always going to be ''pretty'' (i mean, there''s no such thing as an ugly diamond, right--just pretty, prettier, prettiest
2.gif
), a bigger stone just means more of it!


How about this one:

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/J-SI2-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1125425.asp?b=16&a=12&c=77&cid=131

I found it on a PS cut quality search (I-J, VS1-SI2, 2.0-2.2ct). It''s an AGS ''0'' like Lynn suggested and it seems to fit right into my price range at $11,390 on PS (it''s also listed at a much lower price than the others that came through on the search). Have I found a great bargain or am I missing something?

Thanks!
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Actually, I LIKE IT!
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You cannot, I repeat, YOU CANNOT go by the plot to know if a stone is eyeclean or not! Call JA and ask them to pull the stone and eyeball it for you. They will tell you the truth about its eye-cleaness. Honestly, it looks great to me, and I love the numbers.

Definitely worth looking into!
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Date: 1/22/2008 7:58:25 PM
Author: neatfreak


Honestly? It looks like it has a lot of stuff in it! Did you look at the magnified image? Not super nice...

This one is just a bit more and could be a lot nicer. There is a lot of variation in Si2s.


http://www.dimendscaasi.com/diamonds/diamondDetail.asp?stockNum=830175G
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Yes, that one is certainly lovely... but it''s significantly smaller than the JA 2.02 above, and it''s a G, and we are trying to maximize size by lowering color. (I say "we" like I will be wearing it!
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) Personally, I''m still rooting for the JA.
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Date: 1/22/2008 7:48:17 PM
Author: nolimits
Another thought I had....how important is it to be a ''true'' 2ct stone? Would a 1.85ct or 1.90ct stone be close enough?
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That''s a GREAT suggestion, but the reality is that pickens are veeeeeeeeeeeeery slim for well-cut stones in those "just shy" sizes because most cutters, when getting thaaaaaaaaaat close to a benchmark size, will do whatever it takes (even if that means sacrificing *beauty*) to get there. ($$$)
 
*** OK, important CORRECTION! ***
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I just went back and looked at the mag face shot of the JA stone (hadn''t done that before, only looked at the cert)... and yikes, it does look VERY, VERY peppery. Um, not loving that.

I do insist on 100% EYECLEAN, even upon close scrutiny, and I seriously doubt that JA stone is. ALTHOUGH, I could be wrong, IRL can be much different than those mag photos. You definitely need to ask JA, very clearly and specifically, if it is eyeclean.

Not all SI stones are, and it does get trickier with SI2s. But it is NOT IMPOSSIBLE, so don''t give up. Each diamond must be evaluated on its own merits, and gorgeous, completely eyeclean SI stones ARE out there. I promise!!!
 
Date: 1/22/2008 8:08:30 PM
Author: ImpatientOne
If you''d consider a J - here''s one that for some reason is not showing up on the PS search, but it an AGS0 1.77 SI1 J. With the Pricescope discount, you''d be well below budget
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http://www.whiteflash.com/hearts_arrows/A-Cut-Above-H-A-cut-diamond-584855.htm
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Honestly, I really DO have a life.
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OK... I LOVE the stone ImpatientOne found. Granted, it''s not 2c, but it is a GREAT SIZE, and beautifully well cut, so it will blow away most other diamonds out there.

It''s a J/SI, so you are getting the most bang for your buck. That''s what we were shooting for, right?!
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And WF has an awesome upgrade policy... you can always upgrade to 2c (or MORE!
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) in the future. Anniversary or push present, perhaps?!

I *wish* it were a little closer to the 2c you want, but it is decently *close* and you probably won''t get a great cut stone much closer to (but on this side of) 2c.
 
Date: 1/22/2008 8:23:11 PM
Author: Lynn B
*** OK, important CORRECTION! ***
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I just went back and looked at the mag face shot of the JA stone (hadn''t done that before, only looked at the cert)... and yikes, it does look VERY, VERY peppery. Um, not loving that.

I do insist on 100% EYECLEAN, even upon close scrutiny, and I seriously doubt that JA stone is. ALTHOUGH, I could be wrong, IRL can be much different than those mag photos. You definitely need to ask JA, very clearly and specifically, if it is eyeclean.
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HI:

Ya, that I1 I posted "appears" cleaner. But really, one should just ask! And if this doesn''t suit then JA can locate one that is.

cheers--Sharon
 
Date: 1/22/2008 8:47:50 PM
Author: canuk-gal
HI:

Ya, that I1 I posted ''appears'' cleaner. But really, one should just ask! And if this doesn''t suit then JA can locate one that is.

cheers--Sharon
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Sharon, I''m sorry, I did mean to comment on that stone you found, and then I forgot.

Those Infinity stones have a great reputation, it really could be a LOOKER. Good find! I get irritated when they don''t list a price, though. OP was kinda looking for a lower color, SI stone, but if that I1 diamond is eyeclean then he gets a bonus by getting a G color stone. Hmmmm, up in color, down in clarity... it could work!

If only we knew how much it costs!!!!!!! Ack!!!
 
Date: 1/22/2008 8:56:26 PM
Author: Lynn B

Date: 1/22/2008 8:47:50 PM
Author: canuk-gal
HI:

Ya, that I1 I posted ''appears'' cleaner. But really, one should just ask! And if this doesn''t suit then JA can locate one that is.

cheers--Sharon
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Sharon, I''m sorry, I did mean to comment on that stone you found, and then I forgot.Those Infinity stones have a great reputation, it really could be a LOOKER. Good find! I get irritated when they don''t list a price, though. OP was kinda looking for a lower color, SI stone, but if that I1 diamond is eyeclean then he gets a bonus by getting a G color stone. Hmmmm, up in color, down in clarity... it could work!

If only we knew how much it costs!!!!!!! Ack!!!
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HI:

Oh no worries Lynn! But i know what you are saying about the prices--some vendors list them, while others do not. Ack is right! (but they are lookers
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)

cheers--Sharon
 
I love what you''re after! It''s exactly what I want eventually! A killer cut 2+ct J/SI stone! My current stone is a 1.59 AGS0 J/SI2 and I LOVE it. But of coarse I want BIGGER. Unfortunately, I am not in the market to actually do that any time soon
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but I do constantly look at and for 2+ ct J/SI2 stones and I''ve certainly seen a few that I wanted to snatch up BADLY for around $12k, so I think you are in the ballpark. It''s just hunting a needle in a haystack to get the exceptional cut. I bet you''ll find one. Definately check with JA about that one posted. FYI: this may be obvious to others but it wasn''t to me at first, if by chance you do look around WF''s site for a stone do not rule out the stones with just 1 or 2 stars. It may mean it''s a bad cut but it may also just mean that they do not have enough info. My AGS000 beauty was a 1 star I found in their virtual inventory! As soon as they called in the cert we had the stone brought in for a looksie by the WF people and if/WHEN I upgrade this baby will be a WF ES stone I am told, a GREAT GREAT GREAT cut! So, dig around and I bet you''ll find what you''re after!
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Date: 1/22/2008 5:33:52 PM
Author: Lynn B
Yeah, babeee, yeah!
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I like your priorities
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They''re mine, too. I have a 2.36 RB J/SI2 that I adore. Here''s a link with photos:

https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/finally-gorgeous-new-fishtail-pave-set-from-wf.46129/

Shopping for a diamond can seem daunting, true... but here''s a really easy short-cut. If you go with an AGS-0 stone, you have virtually zero chance of getting anything other than a killer, beautiful diamond. Probably the same can be said for GIA ''Excellent'', but I don''t have any personal experience with those. I have owned six AGS-0 diamonds so far, in color and clarity grades from G to K and VS1 to SI2 and every single one has been gorgeous and stunning.

If you find a few stones in your budget that you like, you can bring them here and we can split hairs and help you decide!

BTW, here''s a link to my recent stud upgrade, both K''s, and they are firecrackers!
https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/winters-coming-needed-new-ear-warming-studs-1-47-tcw.72105/

So obviously, I totally agree with you; making CUT my priority, I am more than willing to *compromise* color and clarity to get the SIZE I love. (Personally, I don''t say ''sacrifice''... afterall, we are talking about very expensive 100% luxury items... somehow ''sacrifice'' just doesn''t seem to *fit*!
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). Anyway, I have been doing that for a few years now and haven''t made a single purchase I have regretted yet.
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Lynn B, your ring and earrings are all TO DIE FOR. OMG, amazing AMAZING amazing rocks girl! I''m SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO jealous!
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Thanks again to everyone for all of your help!

I''ll keep searching and let you guys know when a find a few that I like and hopefully you can give me your thoughts!

Definitely feel free to post any stones you may come across that fit what I''m looking for!
 
I would stay in the "G-I" range for color, UNLESS YOU VIEW THE DIAMOND IN-PERSON! Many PSrs have awesome "J" diamonds (ala Mara and JCrow) but it must be graded by a reputable place such as GIA or AGS, and you really need to see it next to your skin, in different lights, etc.

Large diamonds tend to show more color, and when I had an "I" step-cut (albeit the cut had a lot to do with it), the color was noticeable to me...and started to bug after a few years.
 
Date: 1/22/2008 9:40:31 PM
Author: Jenn5504

Lynn B, your ring and earrings are all TO DIE FOR. OMG, amazing AMAZING amazing rocks girl! I''m SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO jealous!
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Miss Jenn,
THANK YOU so much for the kind words!
*Beaming from ear-to-ear over here!!!!*
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Lynn
 
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