ruby ring

[laughinggravy]

Hi - I hope I''m asking this in the right place. I need a bit of advice. I''ve seen a ruby and diamond ring that I like and I just want to check if you think this is a fair price for the specs:

1.50 carat ruby, pigeon blood, slightly flawed under loupe, looks to be a good cut, flanked by two diamonds, pears, no specs, around .30 each set in platinum. Diamonds very white. They say I can get a report on it, prob have to be IGI, they''re the guys everyone uses in this part of Europe. Would it be reasonable to offer to pay for the report and the ring if it turns out to be as described but that if anything is really wrong (I mean more than just a fraction of weight being off), they pay for the report and, of course, keep the ring?

Price is 4,500 euros which I believe is more or less the same as dollars. It''s an antique, or, rather, in an antique shop, in a reliable part of town. I''d be really grateful if you could tell me if this sounds about right. I know coloured stones are a tough call  and I''d love to buy from someone like Wink, but we got a  bit burned by the import duty on my e-ring.

I''m getting really hooked on rubies, I''m a convert (always prefered sapphires), so that makes me even worse!!!!

anyone want to feed my habit, (and help me make an informed choice) by posting pix or links. I''d be really grateful. I''m looking for a nice size solitaire, with or without side stones.

Bagpus, if you''re reading this, do you know of a good shop in the UK?

Thanks all
Abigail

 

[Layne]

The ring sounds beautiful, I would probably buy it if you can get a cert on the stones. I really have no idea if the price is good!
If you do get it, you must post pics, of course.
By the way, 4500 euros = about 6000 USD.

 

[widget]

Laughinggravy...it sure sounds lovely! But it really is hard to guess its value from here.

If at all possible, I would insist on having a gemologiist/appraiser OF YOUR CHOOSING look at it before you commit.

I THINK that it is the quality of the ruby more than the specs on the diamonds that would determine the value of the ring. Is the ruby bright and sparkly and transparent (not opaque)?

I liked the 4500USD figure better than 6000, of course, but I suppose if the ruby is drop dead gorgeous, hmmm... HAVE IT INDEPENDENTLY APPRAISED!!

Good luck, and let us know what you decide. Of course if you get it, you MUST post pics!

widget

 

[Ymanda]

Well it sounds really expensive to me for a 1.5 ct ruby.
You did not specify if it was heat treated or not.
For $3000 you could aford a fine Burmese Ruby.

Now about the diamonds, a pear shape will make them around 10 to 15% more expensive than brilliant cut.
But near a red stone, i think it is useless to go for some really white diamonds. Color F or G should be white enought to contrast with the ruby and still be ok with platinum.

So i think you can have the diamonds and the ring for $2500.

Now you see, my idea is that the main stone is too expensive in your ring, just because you didn''t talk about heat or origin. It sounds like the person who try to sell this stone put a accent on the diamonds (very white). But nothing about heat or origin which are good argument to justify the price of a Ruby.

If you really like the ring, you should go to a lab and try to know more about that (certification on treatment and opinion about origin), also about the diamonds which could justify the price (pear cut and very white...)

Good luck

 

[mogok]

Hello,

Well Ymanda is somewhere right and wrong: A very fine quality 1.5carat ruby from Mogok, Burma can cost much more than 3000$ in Burma, so well in a retail shop in a western country...
Colored Stones value mainly is in the desire you have for it: You want a ruby? spend some time searching for one and then take the best you find for the amount of money you are ready to spend!
That''s it...
My advise to you would be to make some comparisons and then when you will be tired of this game, just by the best stone you can!

Searching and buying a good ruby can be a real experience as this will make you learn so many things!

All the best and have fun searching for your stone!

 

[valeria101]

The price is quite high - it better be the nicest ruby out there ! And that only you can tell with the stone in hand.

The way you describe clarity makes me think that stone is really clean for a ruby, which is great... but not enough to make for top quality and price. ''Guess color would be the most critical, then degree of enhancement, cut and origin. I would definitely expect a lab report for the money (perhaps not IGI if given the choice).

I know colored gems would be substantially more expensive in Europe versus US, and the location and pedigree of the source (you say "reliable part of town") definitely make as much difference as any detail of (visible) quality.

 

[loupe]

A couple of my buttons got pushed when I read your description of the ruby ring you wish to purchase. The term "pigeon blood" should not be used when describing the color of any red gem. It is misleading at best. If the merchant is using this term, he/she is romancing the stone. If you are using it to convey color, please stop. The term "antique" can only be used when the jewelry is 100 years old, or older. Proof of age is sometimes difficult because reproductions are made using the same manufacturing techiniques. So let''s just say, it''s an estate piece. In other words, any period, any time, pre-owned jewelry. A look through a loupe is not sufficient to determine clarity. You must look through a microscope. There is a lot of glass filled material from every source of ruby.

I agree and disagree with my colleagues on this side of the pond. The price is high but there is no one price for any gemstone. The whole ring is 4,500 eu, not the ruby. No one addressed the platinum setting issue. Platinum demand and prices are still high, regardless of the age of the piece. Regional differences, demand, certainly the store''s name or brand, disruption of supply can all drive the price of a gem higher. A laboratory report is appropriate here because of the asking price. Take it to the GAGTL in London or call them for a referral to a QUALIFIED, INDEPENDENT individual that has been trained by them and passed the exam. Their telephone number is 02074043334. This second opinion costs money as you will be dealing with a professional not a hobbyist. Ask your jeweler if they would agree to having another individual look at it. If you leave the shop with it, be prepared to leave a check or credit card for security.

I sincerely hope that this ring is the one you are looking for and hope you enjoy it for many years.

loupe

 

[laughinggravy]

Hi every one, thanks very much for taking the time out to answer me. I''m getting the idea that the ring may well be over priced. This is just the start of the search, my birthday is in November, so I''m in no rush.

Gosh, has the dollar/euro exchange rate widened that much. I remember a year and half ago getting my e-ring from NiceIce (and very good they were too), and it was almost 1:1. Thanks for pointing  that out.

Just to clarrify, Loupe - thanks for warning me, but those were my adjectives for want of better descriptions. Actually, very weirdly and little sadly, when I got home after seeing the ring, I found a dead pigeon on our terrace, next to the garden. Poor thing. And as I was steeling myself up to putting it in the bin (bllarrgh, ugh, yuck), I noticed it had bled a tiny bit and I found myself thinking ''Ok, that'' where the desription comes from''. Sorry to be so macarbre. So ''pigeon blood red'' was my wording - meaning a good, deep red, no hint of brown or pink.

The ''white'' diamonds was me too, and actually I wasn''t clear, but I was comparing them to my trap, step cut side stones on my e-ring which are E VVS1 and not white but, rather, transparent so that in some lights they just seem to be flowing into the platinum. These were not so clear (sorry; not being very clear myself), they were white, whereas my side stones are no colour at all. But the pears are radiant cut, and, as mentioned, my traps are step cut so maybe that''s why.

"Antique'' ooops again,

, my word, meaning not new. I suppose I was reluctant to say second hand. Stupid of me ''cos that''s what it is. I didn''t check for the period, it has those elegant double claws (like much of Leon Megé''s work) but I don''t know the exactly when it was made. I mention this only because I don''t have a problem with heat treatment but don''t like the idea of fracture filling and am guessing - probably wrongly - that whereas heat treatment has been around for an age, fracture filling is ''relatively'' new. I''m probably totally wrong, please let me know.

Once again, I would love to buy from one of the vendors here or on DT, I can think of a few people I would totally trust, but the import duty on the e-ring was over 2K euros and I was left thinkning, "Darn, with that money we could have upped the stone size" it''s such a lot to hand over to the government.

But we do feel like babes in the wood so if anyone knows someone they trust and think highly of in: the UK, France, Germany, Belgium (Antwerp is down the road), or Holland, please let me know. Similarly if any dealers are coming over to Antwerp sometime in the year, and would loke to show us some stones, yeeeeessss please!!!

Thanks again for reading.
Abigail

 

[laughinggravy]

Widget, hi, yes sparkly and transparent,

except for the small flaw, loupe visible only.
A

 

[loupe]

Abigail,

Sorry about the poor bird. What a mess! Yes, I know about the red you want and it is the best you can find. Usually it refers to rubies from the Mogok region of Burma and it is a red with a hint, just a hint of (dare I say it?) blue. But any bird has the same color blood--veinous as well as arterial coloration, if it''s met an untimely and messy death.

My reply was in no way meant to put you off purchasing the ring that you saw but as you can see from the responses that your original e-mail generated, the consensus from a lot of well informed people was that the price seemed high. That''s why it pays to shop. Say what you will about retail merchants and their profits, the fact that there are so many to choose from allows you the luxury of shopping for the best buy. Failing that, at least you know what you don''t want and who you don''t want to deal with as well. I am of the opinion that your relationship with a retail jeweler should be a trusting one. Since you have some time to find just the right ring for you, keep looking. I will try to find some good companies for you in Europe.

loupe

 

[laughinggravy]

Loupe, that would be so great if you could, thanks even for trying! and yes, we have plenty of time - it's just that it was the first stone I'd seen that wasn't either tiny or pinkinsh or totally opaque!

By the way, if have time, could you tell me if I am totally wrong in thinking that fracture filling would be less probable in an older stone. If it the case then before what sort of period (+/-) would ff have been less common?

Thanks for your help and have a great weekend.
A

 

[loupe]

Abigail,

I just read your last post talking about the chips, etc. The inclusions, chips or abrasions and the fact that the ring has no quality marks are minuses in my book. If the ring is only 30 years old then why are there no quality marks?? France, Belgium and England have long histories of assay marks that are government controlled. If repairs have been done to the ring that have obliterated the marks, by law, it is the responsibility of the repairing jeweler to restamp the item after testing. Don''t go by the weight of the ring alone. How does the seller know it is platinum? Did he test it? There is no way for a lay person to tell whether or not a metal is platinum except by the marks. That''s why it is done. Any alloy of platinum that results in less than 95% platinum cannot be called platinum. That''s good news about the color but I would ask for a lower price. See what he says. And by the way, I''m glad you are a color convert. I''m hot on the trail for a ruby merchant. Are you floating between Belgium and England? What city do I need to look for reputable dealers? While you are waiting and shopping, check out www.palagems.com. Yes, they are American but very honest and have some amazing things to look at on their web page. You can also put in requests for specific gemstones.

Nobody is going to shoot you for asking questions.

loupe

 

[laughinggravy]

Hi Loupe - thanks for your comments. Yes, I thought it was a little odd that there was no hall mark on the setting but I figured that the IGI report would define the metal - I''d planned to phone them on Monday to confirm that they would.

I live in Brussels but have family in the UK and can travel from BXL to other European cities easily (one of the benefits of being at the cross-roads of europe as they call it).

I''ve contacted a dealer on the Antwerp bourse, figuring that if the loose stones had an HRD report I can''t go far wrong regarding necessary information at least. We are considering putting the whole budget into the stone alone and then using a setting which I have from my mother, currently containing a pretty but flawed star sapphire. It''s in the bank at the mo, with someother stuff (a precaution we took when we were moving house). I''m a little worried that the setting may demand a stone that is too large for our budget. I check that out next week.

There''s also a swanky jeweller (who was sooo transparent when she looked me up and down as I first came into her shop - I had to smile), who''s going to get in a selection of stones for us to look over. But, yeah, absolutely, reports all the way. Thanks for the London based institute''s number - HRD for loose stone is good - no? For a set stone I thought the prob with IGI (and then no one mentioned IGI Antwerp) was that they were out in colour / clarity analysis for diamonds. Would they not be okay to verify the nature of the stone, (syth or natural) and treatment do you think?

Sorry about misquoting the price and the carat weight, very stupid of me. So, 2.50 and €5,500, prob Thai not Burmese (I thought that was quite honest of him)? Plus all the stuff we''ve covered.

Hope you are having a nice weekend.
A