royal asscher

[dottcomm1]

i am currently seeking a r.a. s an engagement ring. i did some research, but am not sure what to loof for in the table and depth. what are the best numbers to look for?

any add''l info/help would be appreciated!

 

[belle]

don''t worry about finding a ra with a certain table/depth. you are going to have a hard enough time finding ANY ra, much less some to compare.

 

[dottcomm1]

i have seen a few. mostly pawned off as asscher, but are square emerald cuts. even tiffany''s did that.

i saw one at an antique shop. the most beautiful diamond i have ever seen. but $32k was a bit out of "his" price range. but, that''s when i fell in love with the cut, and won''t settle for less.

what should i definately look for?

 

[MacClure]

dottcomm....i agree with belle, that when it comes to a royal asscher, it''s not necessarily the ''cut'' you have to be concerned with...it''s finding one. and, when you find one, hopefully it meets the color-clarity-carat wt. that you want. if you are fortunate enough to find one that fits your ''specs'', you''ve gotta decide if the cost of the stone is justified. if you''ve been doin'' a bit of ''homework'' on this website (and/or other websites), you''ve probably discovered that royal asschers are quite a bit more expensive than a non-branded asscher cut stone...given that the stones are the same weight, color, clarity...etc.

i''ve never seen a royal asscher in person. i''ve only seen pictures. i''ve seen three non-branded asscher cut diamonds personally. but, from what i''ve read on this and other forums, and from the FEW folks i''ve spoken with who were actually holding (or have held one or many) a royal asscher in their hands, the royal asscher''s cuts (more facets) and performance are quite different than a non-branded asscher. is the difference of performance between the royal and non-branded worth the price difference? that''s something you will have to see in person...or take a chance on photos..or trusting a jeweler''s opinion via telephone or internet...or pay to have the stone shipped to you for your personal inspection...

you wrote about square emerald cuts bein'' pawned off as asschers. i think i understand what you mean by that...but, what you''ll learn is that folks refer to the asscher as an ''asscher cut'', ''square emerald cut'' or ''SE'' (short for square emerald), ''generic asscher'', ''non-branded asscher''. however, make no mistake, a ROYAL asscher is specifically that...a ROYAL ASSCHER. the only ''pawning'' i would consider is someone who''s selling a stone as a Royal asscher, when in fact it''s not a Royal, but a ''generic'' asscher (non-branded) cut diamond. if that should happen (happened to me personally, recently), then that person is either a snake or probably mis-informed about what they''re selling you (i''d hope it''s the latter part...).

so, what to do? if you''re wonderin'' should you go Royal or ''regular'' (hey, is that another nick-name for an asscher cut?

) asscher...my recommendation is google the daylights outta ''royal asscher''...use the search engine here on pricescope for anything ''asscher'' and/or ''royal asscher''....read, read and ask questions..plenty o'' folks here to give you advice and suggestions.

well, where to get a royal? here''s what i''ve found thus far....diamond brokers of florida (dbof), diamonds by lauren, good old gold (gog), jay mednikow (email ''em about what royals may be available)...and, probably the rest of the crew that''s recommended around here...whiteflash, james allen. (sorry if i''m leavin'' someone out....)

of those vendors, i''ve spoken with or exchanged email with jan (dbof), jim (james allen), tim (gog), jay (mednikow) and bob of whiteflash. they''ve all answered many of my questions and put at ease a few of my concerns. so, feel free to contact any or all

of ''em.

oh, by the way, i''m a complete newby to this royal asscher/SE diamond journey. i''m not a salesperson, don''t personally know anyone here. just writing a long answered (sorry) post to your ''short'' question.

and, i feel i need to give to you what''s been freely given to me by many folks online. advice and help.

here''s somethin'' i''m tryin'' to keep in mind as i decide to go Royal...or not....specs are important .....and drive the price of the stone. but, i think we can go overboard or become way tooo critical on specs, that we lose focus on what''s equally important..the reason for gettin'' the stone.

finally....all of these vendors websites have great tutorials on diamond specs....

you''ll find many folks here who are extremely friendly and supportive...

good luck....

 

[cymbrie]

TG has given you some excellent information. Fabrikant is another place you can try for RA's they are very friendly and helpful.
http://www.royalasscher.com/

IMHO which happens to be a sentiment shared by MANY PSers under 2-3 carats RA's tend to look a bit busy and many find it hard to justify the 30%-40% markup. Bottom line you will get much less stone for your money going with an RA. RA's tend to have more of an octagonal shape (stop sign) and have more facets 74 as opposed to the traditional 58 in a generic asscher. That said, of the few I know I've never heard of an unhappy RA owner

. Personally I like the more clipped corner look of the generic and I find the RA a bit too busy for my tastes. I am currently working with Jonathan at GOG to find my generic asscher. He also carries RAs in fact I think he has one listed right now and is an absolute doll to work with. He will do everything he can to get you the very best.

http://www.goodoldgold.com/1_59ct_i_vs2_royal_asscher.htm

Do your research, determine what you like you might learn some surprising things here and your preferences may shift based upon what you learn...I know mine did. Best of luck to you and keep us posted in your search.

 

[princessv]

I happen to be in the minority of PSers that love the look of an RA even in smaller stones. Quest had a 1.14 H VVS2 RA in the day I went to talk to them about resetting my e-ring...it was gorgeous

this was back in mid January. That was the first and only RA I''ve seen with my own eyes and I was in love. So apparently, they sell RAs as well if you want to check them out.

 

[decodelighted]

If you saw it in an antique store ... I doubt what you were looking at was a Royal Asscher. Royal Asschers have only existed for a few years. Antique cuts actually more closely resemble some Generic Asscher/Square Emeralds.

The couple of Royal Asschers I''ve seen in person didn''t "do it" for me personally. I would much prefer a Tiffany or Harry Winston "Square Emerald". That''s just me.

 

[dottcomm1]

actually, the asscher was created about the late 1800''s and was popular in the 1920''s. it''s an art deco cut. more stones today are actually gereric square emerald cuts. the ring i saw was definately and asscher. a true octagon.

i don''t care for the square emerald. there''s something about an RA that nothing else touches. i agree with princess v, once you see one in person, you''re hooked!

 

[dottcomm1]

wow! that''s a lot of VERY helpful information! thanks so much!

 

[MacClure]

cymbrie...thank you for your compliment. i try to be cautious when giving others advice. i hope to be as helpful as others have been to me....

yes, fabrikant also is a good source. kristen spent much time with me regarding the royal. she was extremely kind to me and very knowledgeable. i believe she''s fabrikant''s royal asscher girl (not to be confused with pscope''s ''royalasschergirl''...lol).

cymbrie...a gal responded to one of my posts that she owns a .92 ct. royal asscher, which she absolutely adores, quite contrary to what some folks say about the 2 or more carat ''rule''....i''m sooo torn between royals and asschers. i really think i''m gonna go for the royal...at least have one sent to my home to see in person. and, maybe, simultaneously, have blue nile ship me (to my home, i don''t wanna drive hours to an appraiser just to view) the asscher for comparison....i know, maybe seems ridiculous....this is a one time deal for me, so i''m thinkin'' i''ll pay the difference for the royal, and work overtime to make up for it.....

i''ve read some people feel the royal''s too busy...i kinda want that. from the photos (which aren''t the best way to judge a stone), the royals appear to be ''wet'' to me...and, i like that. i want the royal/asscher busy, but not so much that i can''t see into the stone.

 

[decodelighted]

Date: 3/3/2006 3:53:38 PM
Author: dottcomm1
actually, the asscher was created about the late 1800''s and was popular in the 1920''s. it''s an art deco cut. more stones today are actually gereric square emerald cuts. the ring i saw was definately and asscher. a true octagon.

Yes "asschers" but not "Royal Asschers" ... "Royal Asscher" is a more recently invented branded cut with more facets that the original antique cuts done by the Asscher family.

Stones that say "Cut cornered octagonal step cut" or something like that on their GIA cert more closely resemble the antique Asscher look than stones that say "Square Emerald" on the cert.

 

[dottcomm1]

Date: 3/3/2006 4:04:21 PM



Stones that say ''Cut cornered octagonal step cut'' or something like that on their GIA cert more closely resemble the antique Asscher look than stones that say ''Square Emerald'' on the cert.

that''s good to know! thanks!

and th, thanks for all your information. i, too, like the busy look of the ra. it gives it it''s sparkle and "hypnotic" look. it reminds me of ripples in a pond. so unique.

i''m just confused as to exactly what to look for. i know the color and clarity are important, but what else? we have an appointment next saturday with a dealer here in nj.

 

[qqq]

Date: 3/3/2006 3:32:08 PM
Author: Princess V
I happen to be in the minority of PSers that love the look of an RA even in smaller stones. Quest had a 1.14 H VVS2 RA in the day I went to talk to them about resetting my e-ring...it was gorgeous

this was back in mid January. That was the first and only RA I''ve seen with my own eyes and I was in love. So apparently, they sell RAs as well if you want to check them out.

I agree completely. I just purchased a 1.35 RA, and it is breathtaking, imo. It has so much sparkle and I just love the pattern, even on the smaller stone. There is something just mesmerizing about looking into that thing. Just my .02

qqq

 

[strmrdr]

Smaller RA''s like the drop style asschers arent my favorite but people love them so thats way kewl :}
There is a style of well cut asscher for everyone to fall in love with.
If its the RA you love then im happy for you they have been kicken diamonds in my experence :}

 

[cymbrie]

TH I know you have been researching the RAs for a while so it''s great others on their RA quest can benefit from your gathered knowledge. Kristen was WAY cool at Fabrikant when I spoke with her.
LOL, like I said never met an RA owner of ANY size that didn''t LOVE em! Don''t get me wrong RAs are STUNNING! As Storm says there''s an asscher for everybody they are ALL so different depending on what you choose. We''re on a pretty strict budget because we''re also buying a house and planning a wedding so for US the generic was the way to go.
DC and TH do keep us posted in your search though you will find many RA and generic asscher lovers alike in this forum and frankly if it''s an asscher of ANY flavor how can you lose?!

 

[Hest88]

Dottcomm, if you''re truly looking for a branded Royal Asscher then I agree with the others that you don''t have to worry so much about what to look for as long as you know what color, carat, and price range you''d prefer. If you''ve been seeing unbranded asschers then you have to worry quite a bit more.

 

[dottcomm1]

do authentic asschers have a laser inscription? and does it matter if it''s an authentic ra, or just a true asscher cut (not square emerald)?

btw - thanks to everybody for your help! keep it coming!

 

[belle]

ra''s have a crown inscribed on them and there is a notation of it on the grading report. there is no ''true asscher'' cut. you have the ra and then you have everything else.

 

[decodelighted]

Date: 3/3/2006 10:51:03 PM
Author: dottcomm1
do authentic asschers have a laser inscription? and does it matter if it's an authentic ra, or just a true asscher cut (not square emerald)?

I think "Royal Asscher" branded cuts do have a little crown symbol laser inscribed on them. People will argue all day long about whether some "square emeralds" are indeed true "asscher" cuts.

I think what you believe to be "true" asschers are ones with a more octagonal appearance and a high crown - much like the antique cuts. Some square emeralds would meet that definition. What is a "true" asscher and what is a "square emerald" is not a black or white decision for most of us ... shades of grey.

ETA: one thing you should think about is that RA's "face up" or appear to be smaller than other types of Asschers/Square Emeralds BECAUSE of their dramatically clipped corners and significant depth. You'll need to get a higher carat weight of an RA in order for it to look as large a similar Asscher/SE. So not only are you paying up to 40% more for the brand name, you have to get a larger stone for the same impact. Ya gotta REALLY LOVE the RA's to make it worth it, IMHO

... unless, of course, you get an awesome deal on a pre-owned stone like pricescoper QQQ did!!

 

[strmrdr]

Which is which depends on what you like. lol
I gave up and just call em all asschers and separated them out into classes by patterns and characteristics.

drop
narrow step
wide step
old time
Royal asscher
big table
off square
woofers <--- biggest group unfortunatly bleck!

You really need a good vendor with a proven supply line to get kicken asschers in most cases.

 

[dottcomm1]

when we looked at tiffany''s (i know, not the place to look. but we were there and wanted to get ideas), the salesman showed us asschers. they had the "bow tie" in the center. that''s the style i don''t like, and what i''m calling "square emerald". i love repeated squares of the ra.

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 3/3/2006 11:33:40 PM
Author: dottcomm1
when we looked at tiffany's (i know, not the place to look. but we were there and wanted to get ideas), the salesman showed us asschers. they had the 'bow tie' in the center. that's the style i don't like, and what i'm calling 'square emerald'. i love repeated squares of the ra.

Ok am I currect in saying you like the narrow step and dont like the drop style?
You can get that style in a generic asscher you dont have to pay the RA price unless you want too.

www.goodoldgold.com

Tell them you want a narrow step style asscher.
They also have the R.A.

 

[MacClure]

dottcomm....listen to me now, get to readin'' as many asscher threads on this site as you can. type in royal asscher and/or asscher in the search box in the top right corner of this website. you''ll see many, many, many posts by all us ''asscher'' (royal or not...) lovers. these threads and posts will answer every question you have. people have posted pictures of a few royals and asschers. check out the ''show me the ring'' area of this website and search for the asschers....

like i wrote earlier, i''ve seen three asschers (not royal) in person. all of them were beautiful to me. they''re just so damn different than everything else out there. they''re not a fad. they won''t go out of style. they''re not trendy, they''re elegant. as you probably now know, or will soon come to know, asschers (especially the patented, crown-inscribed royals) are a rare find. thus, once found, there''s no turnin'' back to everything else that''s in every maul (mall) or street corner in america. now that you''ve found your way to pricescope (also, you can visit another diamond site ''diamondtalk'', where you can find additional vendors and knowledge), you''ve realized that there''s more to diamonds than rounds and princesses (not knockin'' those stones...i love ''em all).

i must remind you dottcomm...of another difference between the royal and non-royal

(there''s another one of those ''asscher'' terms i wrote to you about earlier

) ....CHOICE. because of this, i''ve been dead-locked. yeah, that''s right. dead-locked. why? like i said, choice. with royals (crown/number inscribed asscher), you can''t name your specs in a diamond search engine and find your royal. like many folks have written- royals are rare. like i said, i''ve exchanged emails and talked on the phone personally with a few (and, there seems to be only a few) royal vendors. you have to chose from whatever they may have. they-give-you the specs of any royals they may have. heck, they may only have one. or none. ahhh...there''s the choice i''ve been talkin'' about.....not much choice with royals. what''s available, when you find it...is it. and you better grab it. once it''s gone...it''s gone. example: 1.26, vs2, I color, g/g...price $$$. or, 1.13, vvs1, e color, vg/ex...price $$$. whatever''s available, you gotta decide if you can handle the specs and/or the cost. but, again, one thing no one will dispute or complain about and that''s the royal''s cut! it comes down to the cut.....

aahhhh...now, the asscher. the square emerald cut. the generic asscher. the SE. the non-branded asscher (did i make that one up? hmm...). now, finally....we have choice. all the choice we can handle. this is what beats a royal...CHOICE. and, hands down, less expensive! but, now, we do have to worry (not really worry...just study and be a little more observant) a bit about the table and depth percentages. go to royalasscher.com, even that website will tell you that table percentages of 55-60 with optimum depths nearing 70 is the goal. so, i''ve taken their word for it. i''ve also looked at royal asschers online and almost literally memorized...lol...some of their (royals) dimensions. lol....so, as i hunt for the non-branded asscher (i think that''s what i''ll call the asscher cut...), i look for the dimensions of a royal...or try to.

that''s where i''m at now...go for the royal with the guaranteed additional facets that make that stone (from pictures) appear ''wet'' to me, but settle for whatever spec i can get and pay that premium? or.....get real specific on specs, pay a less price for a stone that has less facets, and...like i said in another post, play the fedex shipping game to an appraiser hours away...or trust one of these vendors online (they all come highly recommended) to help make the choice for me...and, utilize their 7-30 day money back guarantee if i''m not satisfied.....himmmm...choices. decisions...

instead of teetering on the fenceline...i feel like i''m losing balance and falling toward the royal side. why? because i have to live with my mind....i don''t wanna spend thousands (because i''m going to spend thousands!!) on a non-branded asscher...which will be beautiful, but won''t be what i really, really want....

.......a royal. for a few thou'' more.

c''mon folks...let''s all get real... who would not want a royal asscher? lol......anyone who answers ''no'' don''t reply, i won''t believe you!

hope my long-winded post helps ....

 

[dottcomm1]

first...

strmrdr: thanks for the pics! the wide stap is what i am looking for.

TierHog: thanks soooo much for sharing your knowledge! seems like you are agonizing like myself. we have an appt next saturday at a local diamond distributor (bentley diamond, sea girt, nj). i''m going to see what they have to offer. a few friends have gone there and liked the place and the prices, but they weren''t looking at asschers, so you never know. he was thinking about going into nyc to the diamond district, but that''s a bit too overwhelming for me to handle. and, i''m not sure about ordering something that $$ online. regardless of reputations, etc, it still scares me a bit (getting lost, etc).

i fully agree that there''s no turning back once you fall in love with the cut. there''s so much more to the stone than other cuts.

once i go next weekend, i''ll let you know what they have and if it''s worth checking it out.

 

[MacClure]

dottcomm...thank you very much for the compliments. yeah, it can seem agonizing at times to find the right stone. especially when you begin to learn alot and realize how you''ve been getting ripped off prior to finding the internet....

i completely understand how you feel about shopping online....i felt the same way. but, listen to me. many of these vendors who''re listed or recommended online have real brick and morter (buildings) businesses. to check out these vendors, go to their website. look for a few things like their physical address (you can check out addresses with mapquest), check the logos on their site...such as BBB, jewelers assoc''s, etc. these logos, or links, that these vendors privide on their website provide you with info such as where they''re located, what associations they''re affiliated with, or how long they''ve been in business. if you''re curious, ask ''em. ask a few of us. remember the vendors i mentioned to you earlier? that''s the truth, thus far, regarding my contact with these folks.

again, don''t forget...use the ''search'' box here. search for ''royal asscher'', ''asscher'', ''SE'', ''online shopping vs B/M''...you get the idea...you''ll be amazed at all the info you''ll receive (do you have all weekend? lol...)

you do need to get fully armed before you go ANY B/M place!! or else....you''ll come cryin'' back here, posting how you got ripped off....

...i''m not tryin'' to steer you away from shopping out in town, but what i''d like to do is start a new post so anyone else like us can read....i''ll name it something along the lines of ''what brought me to the internet/pricescope''...

i''ll take the time and tell you what brought me to the internet and pricescope (and another place ''diamondtalk).


check it out....(give me a few mins to write...gosh, i''m so long-winded it could take me all day!)

sincerely...

 

[dottcomm1]

i completely understand why you''ve gone to the internet. a lot of jewelery salesmen are like used car salesmen. they want to sell you something then and there and will not take ''no'' for an answer. plus, they all want to ''educate'' you about diamonds.

i checked out some of the site you recommended. goodoldgold.com is located fairly close by, and we make take the ride out there. jim allen and whiteflash had some nice prices, but it''s tough to make that kind of decision online.

i plan to walk in with my paperwork and notes so i have a base to start from.

whew! and i thought buying a house was going to be tough!

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 3/4/2006 3:53:55 PM
Author: dottcomm1
i completely understand why you've gone to the internet. a lot of jewelery salesmen are like used car salesmen. they want to sell you something then and there and will not take 'no' for an answer. plus, they all want to 'educate' you about diamonds.


i checked out some of the site you recommended. goodoldgold.com is located fairly close by, and we make take the ride out there. jim allen and whiteflash had some nice prices, but it's tough to make that kind of decision online.


i plan to walk in with my paperwork and notes so i have a base to start from.


whew! and i thought buying a house was going to be tough!

You shouls definatly visit GOG.
Call and set up an appointment with Jonathon and have them bring in some asschers.

 

[dottcomm1]

so many people in this post recommended gog, we''re going to go! thanks!!!

 

[cymbrie]

YAY DC I think you will be more than pleased with GOG. Jonathan and Tim will find you the very best! I have been so pleased with them so far we are narrowing down our choices as we speak! Keep us posted!

 

[Kaleigh]

That''s great glad to hear it. I got my asscher from GOG. Have fun!!!