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Round Tsavorite Valued at 3k-4k per carat?

Hockey24083

Rough_Rock
Joined
Mar 20, 2016
Messages
7
Hi, I am new to this forum and was hoping someone may have an idea about whether expecting to pay anywhere from 2.5k - 4k per carat for a tsavorite between 1-2 carat is reasonable in the given market. If these prices are astronomical please feel free to let me know. One of the stones was specifically graded at an 8/6 & VVS1, and having seen the stone it appears eye clean but is so dark I don't understand a 2.5k/carat valuation. I have pictures of all 3 stones I have been shown and can post them if anyone starts to follow this thread. Any help is appreciated in advance.
 

NKOTB

Ideal_Rock
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Jun 5, 2011
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2,021
That seems quite high, especially if you're not wowed by the stones. Steve Wallner has a really nice round though it is under the 1 ct mark: http://www.stevorocks.com.. Also a fraction of the cost! While the price of green garnets has gone up significantly, I can't see paying that much for a stone in that size range. If it was a rare large size (say, over 3 cts), I could see the price per ct jumping.
 

chrono

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Apr 22, 2004
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37,471
It sounds too expensive if the stone is that dark.
 

PrecisionGem

Brilliant_Rock
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I'm not sure there is such a thing as 8/6. I think at that tone, a saturation of 6 isn't possible. Gem E Wizard only shows up to 8/4. At 8/4 the full retail price would be $1400 per cut.

We should start a discussion here on TONE and SATURATION, as more often than not on this forum the terms are not used correctly.
 

Hockey24083

Rough_Rock
Joined
Mar 20, 2016
Messages
7
Thanks for the replies everyone,

I will post several pictures when I get home this evening that include the 3 stones I have seen with the appraisal paperwork I was provided on the darkest stone. I asked the jeweler about how he is justifying the prices he quoted, and he assures me they are the highest quality. However, in the same breath he says, "tsavorite is being considered for qualification as a precious stone" and that he believes they will "double if not triple in price over the ensuing 10 years". All of this sounds like slick sales talk to me. Does anyone know whether there is any justification for these two statements?

Also, would it be worth asking for an outside appraisal from someone I find on my own? I'm worried he may be in with his own appraiser for inflated values? Is this a thing that can happen in the industry? I mean an appraiser working to inflate the value of his buddie's stones?

I am going back with my GF tonight to view the stones and talk about the setting work. I am considering moving forward but only if I can get another appraisal or some justification for the price on the gem we pick.

Thanks for your insight Precision :think:
 

kgizo

Brilliant_Rock
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Dec 14, 2009
Messages
1,660
I agree with NKOTB and Chrono, the price is too high.
 

digdeep

Brilliant_Rock
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Apr 14, 2013
Messages
877
Not only is the price too high, but the salesperson is giving you a scenario that is not based on reality---tsavorite may go up but it seems like it was more popular a few years back than it is now, and no one can guarantee what will happen and where prices will go in the future---up, down, or stay the same. And yes, anyone associated with the salesperson is biased in appraisals. You need to go to an independent lab for an assessment that is legitimate and recognized as such without the salesman's flavoring and colorful wording. Be Careful!
 

NKOTB

Ideal_Rock
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2,021
I'm looking forward to seeing the pictures. I gather you are firm on wanting a round?
 

minousbijoux

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Aug 5, 2010
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Its a matter of personal taste, but with based on the photos, with that saturation and dark tone, $3k-$4k would be way overpaying.
 

chrono

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Apr 22, 2004
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37,471
Pass - inaccurate self grading, too dark, and too expensive for the colouration. As Gene said, there's no such thing as 8/6. 8 for tone and 6 for saturation, yes, but not the two together. It is impossible for a dark tone to have vivid saturation. It stops at 8/4.

help_7.gif
 

Hockey24083

Rough_Rock
Joined
Mar 20, 2016
Messages
7
The stone's setting requires it to be round. More importantly my GF has fallen in love with round stones.
 

chrono

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Apr 22, 2004
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Contact PrimaGems.
 

theredspinel

Brilliant_Rock
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Nov 14, 2015
Messages
889
Oh my gosh. That stone is NOT what I was imagining when you mentioned that price. I wouldn't pay $100 for that.... surely that's not what a t sav represents?!

You can get any old blackish green round stone and be done with it... you do not need to seek out a t sav if that image is what you're after.

Coupled with the annoying completely transparent 'used car salesman' sales talk... I would definetly pass.
 

elle_71125

Ideal_Rock
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Jan 29, 2012
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4,418
I don't particularly like the dark tsavorite. I think you can do way better, for that price.
 

PrecisionGem

Brilliant_Rock
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Tsavorite is at an all time high right now. None of the rough dealers I work with in Africa will even buy it since the price is so high. If it will come down or not, I don't think anyone knows. It is one of my favorite stones however. People are paying crazy high prices for it right now, but I don't think the US market has caught up or caught on with the high prices.
 

Hockey24083

Rough_Rock
Joined
Mar 20, 2016
Messages
7
Thanks for the help on this. One more point I wanted to consider is that the gem is substantially cleaner than just about anything I have seen online. In my uneducated opinion it appears eye clean and very nearly loupe clean. I had noticed that a lot of gems shown online have significant bubbling or even what appear to be "swirl marks". I do believe that the clarity of the gem is great. Also, he seems to be leaning on this fact for the basis of his valuation. Do you think it would be difficult to find something as clean?
 

marymm

Ideal_Rock
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Apr 21, 2010
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Hockey24083|1458830995|4010361 said:
Thanks for the help on this. One more point I wanted to consider is that the gem is substantially cleaner than just about anything I have seen online. In my uneducated opinion it appears eye clean and very nearly loupe clean. I had noticed that a lot of gems shown online have significant bubbling or even what appear to be "swirl marks". I do believe that the clarity of the gem is great. Also, he seems to be leaning on this fact for the basis of his valuation. Do you think it would be difficult to find something as clean?
No I don't think it will be a problem to find a clean Tsav; and I do think the stones your jeweler is showing you are over-priced particularly for what they are.

What likely will cause a problem is requiring a round shape.

If your setting can accommodate an 8mm round, I have seen in person (and yearned for) this Tsavorite offered by GemFix -- the color is gorgeous -- and in terms of clarity while the GemFix Tsav is not as clear as the very dark stone you are considering, I don't recall any eye-distracting inclusions and likely as a result of the inclusions the GemFix Tsav has a lovely glow to it. http://gemfix.com/gems/tsavorite-238-portuguese-style-cut-round-1-94cts
 

PrecisionGem

Brilliant_Rock
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Often when looking at pictures online, you are seeing the stone much larger than you would in person, and with surrounding light that will make inclusions much more apparent than in your hand.

I was looking at some cut Tsavorite this year in Tucson, that were all over 3 carats and loupe clean, that were priced less per carat than the stone you are looking at, and they were much better tone.
 

chrono

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Apr 22, 2004
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Eye clean is the standard and tsavorite is also typically a very clean garnet. The round shape will be more challenging though since most are ovals, followed by cushions.
 

minousbijoux

Super_Ideal_Rock
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At this point, I would get away from that seller as fast as you can - he is trying to sell stones at what appears to be incredibly inflated prices with less than honest tactics/sales hype.
 

T L

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Sep 20, 2008
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23,257
It looks more like a chrome diopside, which is a very dark green stone. Unfortunately, it's so dark in tone, that impedes the saturation, and the color (hue) isn't the coveted "very slightly bluish green" that so many look for in these gems.

It is extremely overpriced for what it is.

Compare that stone to this one, which is a far more desirable hue, saturation and tone. This is very high quality.

tsavorite-diamond-ring-hand-shot.jpg
 

theredspinel

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
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Nov 14, 2015
Messages
889
I really hope you ran away as fast as you could from that seller. He was trying to use all manner of dirty untrue 'sales tactics' to con you into buying this low quality stone for top dollar.
 
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