Round Radiant cut at Helzberg???

[MrClarkMr]

Hi all, I am buying an engagement ring, and now fully appreciate how big a task this really is!!!
I originally browsed the local retailers (their prices are so much higher!) and out of those ventures I determined my favorite was the ''Radiant Star'' diamond from Helzberg: Here is the website for the 1 1/4ct. Radiant Star'' target="_blank">Helzberg+Exclusives&BV_SessionID=@@@@1902109336.1119381916@@@@&programId=38079&channelId=-10820&rootChannelName=/Commerce+Navigation/Jewelry&BV_EngineID=cccjaddemfkdmklcflgcefkdfkjdffj.0 target="_blank" Title="Here is the website for the 1 1/4ct. Radiant Star" Title="Here is the website for the 1 1/4ct. Radiant Star" style="color:#3366FF">Here is the website for the 1 1/4ct. Radiant Star

I love the look of this ring, but for 6,999 dollars I would be getting basically an I color/ I2 clarity, which is a lot lower than I was looking to come in at.
A friend recommended this site, and I love the prices here (I can get a bigger radiant cut of much better color/clarity/etc) - but I would then have to pay for a settng and for having it set, and I am under the impression it would be a square radiant and not the round.

Here is a square radiant stone from a reputable wholesaler in New York that sounded good to me:

1.55ct H SI-2:
Measurments :6.41 X 6.39X 4.71 MM
Depth 73.70
Table 70.00
Culet None
Polish Very Good
Symmetry Very Good
Flourscnce None
Price $4,500 pct ,Total $ 6,975 .

Would I be throwing a lot of $ out the window by buying the radiant star from Helzberg? I would be THRILLED to find a great radiant cut on pricescope, which I''m sure would be more diamond and quality for less money, but do not know how the square looks compared to the round. Any opinions? Thanks so much in advance for helping a struggling newbie out!

 

[Kaleigh]

Hi and welcome to PS, you came to the right place. You will find a much better cut stone on PS than at Helzberg''s. Plus it will be better color and clarity.

 

[Big_G]

I think the gimmick with the radiant star is that they use the extra facets (145 or something) to hide the inclusions. My g/f really liked the same ring you posted. After hanging out here, I''m going to pass on Helzberg.

Check out this 3-stone from Whiteflash:
http://www.whiteflash.com/jewelry_gallery/three%20stone%20rings/i_DSCN0177.jpg.aspx

 

[Diachi]

Welcome to Pricescope!

IMHO, yes, you would be throwing your money away at Helzberg. Also, cut is the most important and you can find better for less $$$ here.

FYI-Some vendors here will set the stone for you free-of-charge as long as you purchase the stone and setting from them and you will still save money!

Good luck!

PS-I have a 1A Cut Class (Ideal) Square Radiant (1.2 carat, D, VS1) that was around $5,000-with a platinum setting AND an independent appraisal, total was around $6,400 I think...GO WHITEFLASH!!!

 

[afrodyt2000]

I am also a whiteflash advocate. I just got my new square radiant cut e-ring. It is not huge (.80 carat) but D color and Si1 completely eye clean, the cut is Ideal based on the #s and it it so beautiful. I don''t think I will ever go retail again for big purchases now that I know what a diamond is supposed to look like. My ring sparkles everywhere and differently in varying lighting conditions. I adore it and I''m sure if you get a ring from whiteflash your lady will be happy.

 

[icelady]

MrClark,

Are you looking for a round diamond or a Radiant? They are completely different stones with very different looks. The Helzberg diamond is a round, and why they would choose to call it a Radiant Round, I am not sure. I think they are being very confusing really!

If you have not had a chance to see a real Radiant in person, you need to see and compare them to round stones to see which you like best. Then you can zero in on the details.

Good luck in your search!

 

[coda72]

If I were you I would definitely not purchase a radiant star from Helzberg diamonds. It seems that you won''t be getting a good quality diamond for the price you will be paying.

As far as the diamond from the wholesaler in New York, it seems like a good deal for a 1.55 carat stone. I can tell you that the stone will appear smaller than a 1.55 carat should because it is pretty deep. The depth of radiants should be around mid sixties or they will appear smaller than they should for their carat weight. For a good guide on the parameters that determine cut, check out this link http://www.gemappraisers.com/chartFrameset.htm.

Also, radiants, if cut in the Original Radiant way will not ever be round. They will be square or rectangular depending on the length to width ratio. Do keep in mind that as long as your length to width ratio is 1.1 or less, it will appear to be square. It doesn''t have to be a perfect 1:1 ratio to appear square. My radiant is 1.07 length to width ratio and it appears square.

 

[valeria101]

The diamond at Helzberg is a branded cut called "Radiant Star" - a round with 145 facets and no resemblance with the traditional "Radiant" cut... there are a few dozens of such, all sold at some premium over the usual generic cuts with or without special merit. Most likely, the word "Radiant" was just meant to reffer to brighteness, not to the traditional cut. (see the picture below).

Interestingly, the Helzberg brand demonstrates the superior optics of their diamonds using GEMEX Brilliance Scope scores. The same machine is used to score ideal cut traditional rounds and a number of other branded round diamonds. If you choose to go for those scores as a measure of quality (they are not totally random, as far as I understand although by no means the ultimate cut grading toool), it would be easy to compare this cut with other. Perhaps the overall look varies from one cut to the nxt, but the difference due to facet paterns (an number of facets) will not be astounding unless the diamonds are very large. Perhaps 4-5 carats will show the subtle effects of cut patterns, 1 carat - barely so.

Around Pricescope, Good Old Gold and Superbcert and NiceIce (is this all ?) use the Brilliance Scope to qualify their diamonds. H&A rounds and some fancies including two branded round cuts (Solasfera and Eighternity) are sold with such scores.


There is more to the story...
The "Radiant Star" comes with IGI lab reports. These are reputed to be less strict on color and clarity grading than GIA (or AGS, or EGL, HRD and others perhaps - just not a very mainstream report). This is not a big problem, but makes price comparison tricky, since these diamonds cannot be compared with stones of similar grades certified by GIA or AGS, but with those one grade lower for example, I am not sure where exactly and how IGI errs - this is a fine line kind of judgement. There are a couple (two or maybe three as far as I know) articles comparing grades awarded for the same batch of diamonds by different labs, one of the two I know of is listed on the "Pricescope Diamond Journal" here. However, this compared GIA; EGL USA and AGS. IGI didn't get into the picture. You may wnat to run a serach on this forum for some comments on IGI or ask an apraiser's opinion, unless more will chime in about this on this thread.

And there is the matter of size...
A 1.5 cts round diamond should be quite a bit larger than that - the unusual cut by Helzberg seems to eat up a bit more weight, so 1.5ctsof theirs looks as large (by diameter) as the unsual 1.1cts round briliant cut. This is easy to check by running aserach in this database and there aretables with refference sizes/weight for round diamonds.

Sorry for the information chaos

I am trying to take into account that diversity makes choice easier

, just more fun, if you wish.

For the sake of clarity, I'veattached below pictures of thefacetpatterns of the "Radiant Star" and the original Radiant cut - two more different beasts would be hard to immagine !

Non-branded radiants are less expensive than rounds per carat, but also smaller for the same weight - at least most of the time. Lots of things to consider...

In theory, the brightest diamonds are round cut, but this is theory. Shape is a matter of choice and any shape cut with the range of proportions that makes it as bright as it can be would not need excuses compared with rounds. I don't think you could go wrong with a brightexample of the radiant cut: it would probably be a better deal too.

Hope some of this helps

 

[valeria101]

Date: 6/21/2005 3:50:55 PM
Author:MrClarkMr

A friend recommended this site, and I love the prices here (I can get a bigger radiant cut of much better color/clarity/etc) - but I would then have to pay for a settng and for having it set

Sellers of loose diamonds could arrange to have yourstone set, and most of them also list jewelry making services, just like any custom jewelry shop. If you have a solitaire setting in mind, there are lots of options from online diamond sellers. And you can always order a design made after your own specifications, if you so wish. If you look over the "Show me the Ring" forum here there are lots of projects colpleted most with detailed descriptions of how the shopping process went