Rough diamond......

[nickuc]

Okay folks, well I just bought a rough diamond that is a bit over 4 carats. I have been reading about how much is lost during the cutting process and about the risks associated with it. With that it mind, how would one go about getting the diamond cut, I''m from the Chicago area? What would be the average going cost per carat for a round or princess cut? After it is cut, how is the diamond identified--i.e. serial # lasered in? Also, how would I go about gettting it certified? Thanks in advance.

 

[kenny]

Why did you buy rough?
Why not just buy a cut princess?

If you are buying rough you must be in the industry, right?

If not, is this the next trend?
Buy rough, then have it cut it yourself?

 

[valeria101]

Yay! Any chance you could post a picture?

Certification shouldn''t be a problem - any gem lab should be able to identify the substance for what it is and an appraiser would probably provide the answer faster. Why have this piece certified before it is cut? Just curious.

No idea of the rest... aside that there are a couple of cuters writing on this forum who do. Hopefully one will care to post on this thread. If not, you can always send a PM and see what happens

 

[nickuc]

I have not had the piece certified yet, I am waiting for it to be cut. One of my associates is connecting me with his jeweler and I will be checking out his references, before I give the job to him. And yes, I bought rough and it was a bit cheaper than a finished stone, but that wasn''t my main focus. I''m a man that prefers a bit more control over quality. While I can afford to go to expensive jewelers, I have found one thing in common, most have various overheads and therefore, different price projections that are not reflective of the quality of the gem, but moreso the size of their bills. On the otherhand, I understand that if you are willing to accept the risks, that going private (custom) and not commercial is the way to go. Plus, this will almost ensure that my g/f will have a truly one-of-a-kind ring since the setting is going to be custom as well. Thanks for the info those that posted thus far.

 

[kenny]

Fascinating, I admire your original thinking.
I respect your desire to achieve perfection (and not pay a few other middlemen along the way) but wouldn't someone in the industry already have the business contacts and technical knowledge to get the best results?

Of course if you have money they will talk to you but I'd imagine everyone you are about to deal with is used to operating in a different business model.
Most importantly if you are not an expert, and the cutter knows it, how will you know if they did a good job?
If there is one thing I have learned by reading PS it is that there are several layers to diamond expertise.
I have an idealscope and know a bit, but I would never do what you are doing.
They would eat me for lunch.

Nothing personal, but aren't you implying that all their years of experience contribute nothing but a higher price to the cut stone?

Maybe you're right with a, "How hard can it be?" approach.
I gotta hand it to you.
I wish you all the best, and keep us posted on your project.

 

[Richard Sherwood]

Fascinating. Keep us posted.

 

[denverappraiser]

Nickuk,

There is some entertainment value in managing the whole process yourself and it’s nice to be able to be able to say that you did it yourself when it's over. Almost always this ends up being considerably more expensive in the end than letting the professionals handle it but money isn’t everything. It’s like building a kit car. There are fine reasons to do it, but it doesn’t usually end up with what most people count as the best car. That said, here’s how you do it:

The yield of the final stone from the rough will depend on the details of the stone. It’s different for every one and the cutters devote a huge amount of brainpower to worrying about this. Expect to lose about 75% of the weight in the cutting process but this can vary tremendously with the details of the stone. Consult with a cutter. There are several in the Chicago area. Call up PGS (www.progem.com) or one of the appraisers in the area and try to get a referral. The cutter will probably charge you a consultation fee for this initial set of decisions but $100 should be enough to get some decent advice. You may do well to let them broker the deal for you. When you finally decide on what you want to do with it, expect the cutting to cost a few hundred dollars per carat based on the original weight. Bear in mind that there is some risk associated with this process and you are assuming the risk, not the cutter. Cutters don't all charge the same and the most skilled are usually not the cheapest. You can also simply buy the equipment and learn to cut it yourself but this can be pretty time consuming and expensive.

Grading is done after the stone is cut, not before. GIA will work directly with the public if you wish although they give a token discount to their regular customers so you might save some money by using an intermediary. They can be contacted at www.gia.edu. They can do the laser inscription as well if you wish it. This will cost anywhere from $150 to about $500 depending on the size of the final stone. There are competitive labs that are less expensive and that use different grading standards and this decision will depend on what you are aiming for, what your budget is and how much time you have.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ISA) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

 

[The Joker]

"You can also simply buy the equipment and learn to cut it yourself but this can be pretty time consuming and expensive."

Even used diamond cutting equipment can be expensive. I priced out some used equipment 6 years ago and it was over $20,000 for just a bruting machine, diamond saw, the cut and polish table (wheel), and a couple of semi-automatic tangs.

For about $5,000 you could take a diamond cutting course in Florida, and learn to cut it yourself. It''s a two week program, with about 60 in-class hours. This is what I would like to do someday. You can find more infomation at:

http://www.diamondschool.com/

Joker....

 

[DiamondExpert]

I fear your first mistake may have been the act of purchasing the rough, because if you do not have the expertise in judging crystal structure, color, clarity, yield and all the other factors which go into making an informed decision about final outcome (a process which usually takes years of specific experience/training), how can you know whether or not you are already "behind the 8 ball"?

I hope you made your initial purchasing decision with a knowledgeable consultant/broker by your side!

Of course, your advantage is that you are not trying to make $ with this project, so enjoy the ride and work with only the best!

Good luck!

 

[Kaleigh]

Yes I hope you had a very experienced broker/consultant at your side when purchasing this rough. But I got to hand it to you, sounds like a great project and I will be very interested to see how this turns out!!!! I hope you have a great diamond cutter. Good luck!!!!

 

[nickuc]

With all these replies, I''m starting to doubt my decision. Well anyway, it''s already bought. Here is a rather crappy pic of it.

 

[Paul-Antwerp]

The pic is indeed crappy, and maybe that is why the stone looks crappy too. However, I fear that it the cause for the crappy look is more in the stone than in the pic.

I hope that you did not pay more than 1,000$ for this stone. And then, I hope that you can find some cutter in India, who will cut it into a nice milky-white I-3.

I am sorry about being so hard on you, but looking at the pic, there is nothing close to good one can say about this stone. For most cutters, the presence of such a stone in a parcel of rough can be a deal-breaker.

Live long,

 

[nickuc]

First of all, I appreciate you being frank with me. It seems that I have been cheated. Well, anyway I did not pay over 1K for it. On another note, do you or anyone else have a pic of a rough stone that looks promising? What should a good candidate for polishing look like?

 

[Kaleigh]

I think you should learn a lesson here and stay away from buying anymore rough stones.

 

[pricescope]

Date: 10/3/2005 7:54:35 AM
Author: nickuc
Plus, this will almost ensure that my g/f will have a truly one-of-a-kind ring since the setting is going to be custom as well. Thanks for the info those that posted thus far.

To make the best out of your situation why go for round or princess? Shop around for custom shape, that would be one unique e-ring!

 

[Paul-Antwerp]

I do not have a pic of nice rough here, but as an example, look at this link

At the right hand side, you see a crappy pic of 4 rough diamonds. The one on the right (if 4 Ct) might yield you 2 princess-cuts of around 1 Ct. The second one from the right might be suitable to produce rounds from.

In any case, for such a 4Ct-stone, do not expect to pay less than 12K. And do not forget to pay the same for the other 35 stones in the parcel. And remember that the seller expects you to be there next month to buy the next parcel.

Live long,

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 10/3/2005 4:27:08 PM
Author: kaleigh
I think you should learn a lesson here and stay away from buying anymore rough stones.

Amen!

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 10/3/2005 4:34:28 PM
Author: Pricescope

Date: 10/3/2005 7:54:35 AM

Author: nickuc

Plus, this will almost ensure that my g/f will have a truly one-of-a-kind ring since the setting is going to be custom as well. Thanks for the info those that posted thus far.

To make the best out of your situation why go for round or princess? Shop around for custom shape, that would be one unique e-ring!

great point.

 

[MissAva]

Here is a pretty piece of rough posted in the gallery. However as others have advised you I must agree, you clearly do not yet know enough about diamonds to be doing this. Perhaps this would be a better anniversry present.

 

[kenny]

nickuk, sorry you feel cheated.
Perhaps some good can come of this.
Is there a way for you to stop payment on a check?
Call your credit card company and refuse payment on the basis or misrepresentation?
Return for refund?
Partial refund?

Even though you feel you were cheated since you paid under $1,000 it probably is not worth it pursuing this with an attorney.

PS Pros: Is there a buyer for such rough at a fair price?
If it is real diamond it must have value beyond a conversation piece for the coffee table.

If nothing else could you make some lemonade with this lemon?
How about a unique piece of jewelry?
How many people have a 4-ct diamond of any kind?

BTW, how did you come across this rough for sale?
I had no idea rough was offered for sale to those outside the industry.

 

[The Joker]

Here is your rough diamond along side of a fancy yellow rough diamond for sale on eBay. You need to have your diamond looked at by a diamond cutter to see if it is worth cutting, and they may need to polish a window to see inside the diamond. From what I can tell from the picture, it looks like it may be just an industrial grade diamond, but then, I am only looking at a "poor" picture of your rough.

Some people have jewelry made using just rough diamonds. The "Kahn Canary" was worn by First Lady Hillary Clinton to her husband''s Inaugurals in both 1993 and 1997. It is a 4.25 ct rough diamond ring. That diamond was found at the Crater of Diamonds, Murfreesboro, Arkansas.

Joker....

 

[nickuc]

Thanks everyone for the advice. As soon as I get some free time in my schedule, I'll have it checked up by a daimond cutter--that is if and when I find a reputable one in my area. Although I am from Chicago, I currently reside in the middle of cornfields getting my BA. We'll see how easy it is to find somebody around here. Stay tuned in for progress.

 

[Joane]

I like the idea of using it in jewelry as it is, rough--either a pendant or a ring with an unusual setting. Also the idea of saving this project for an anniversary gives lots of time to research the matter. Good lemonade suggestions! This is a very interesting thread. Never seen one like it here exactly before.

 

[valeria101]

Oh well... sorry to hear this

 

[nickuc]

Thanks everyone for your advice. I won''t be jumping head 1st anymore. Under the advice of many of you, I wil try to make the best out of the situation and check the diamond out for myself when it arrives. Well, anyway, at least I have insured this transaction in refernce to the "realness" of the diamond itself--be it industry grade or low gem grade. Well anyway, thanks again.