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Rockdoc''s Secrets to Negotiating Price

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RockDoc

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Rockdoc''s Secrets to Negotiating Price


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I started this new posting as there''s probably a lot of interest about negotiating prices.


Negotiation with anyone selling any is sometimes like a game of "chicken". It''s always a mystery whether the seller will cave in or if he''ll hang tough.


One of the first questions you want to ask yourself is how easy would you give up 10,20,30 or more percent of your paycheck if your boss told you he wanted to negotiate the amount he paid you each week?


It depends on how well you PLAY the game.
Some people are weak and back right down, rather than being assertive. This happens on both sides of the table.

It also depends on the knowledge of sales techiniques. If you''re not thoroughly versed in sales techiniques, then you need to get some books about it first.


Remember you''re dealing with people that are selling. Do you think they are ready to answer price negotiation questions?


Many retailers, intentionally mark higher price tags anticipating the need to negotiate with the buyer to make a sale.


Others don''t.


Negotiation with a skiled sales person, can be "DEADLY".


Once the conusmer gets to negotiating PRICES, the sales person stops selling the product. He doesn''t have to. You''ve boxed yourself in by attempting to negotiate.


The professional sales person, especially in some jewelry stores, are far more knowledgealbe about how to manipulate you to buy than knowing about diamonds or the product.


A sample of quickly you can get trapped is, by the seller asking you a "closing question"


You say "can you make the price better"?


he says... If I do will you buy it now?


If you say no... then you can expect two answers....


well come back when you are ready and I''ll really make you the best deal.


( In other words go shop and but just before you''re ready come back and then, you''re baited on his hook)


the second approach is like the jabroni thread..


They make the reduction conditional on you buying at that moment, and then you get what is called a "low ball". This done when the sales person knows you aren''t going to buy, but figures the only way he will get you back in is to give you a price so low, that no one else will come close.


If he''s wrong, and you say ok, then he smiles and makes an excuse, such as .. I''m willing to sell it to you at that price like I said, but since it so low, i have to get the boss to approve it." Of course the boss never approves the low ball, but once they know you WILL buy at some price, its just a matter of "weaseling" you until they get there.


Another slick method is the "bait and switch close". They infer they will take that price,but then they try to switch you to cheaper item, saying they can''t meet the price on the one you want. Taking the item a consumer wants away, can be a very effective close technique by a skilled sales pro. THey know just how to do it.


but there are also some out there that are just plain dishonest and deceptive and will show you really nice goods, negotiate with you, then subsitute a lower quality item.
This isn''t the norm for most retailers, but this can happen in places where there is really fierce competition like the place in the Jabroni thread.

Consider the amount of the reduction. Does it make sense? If someone comes down 30% immediately.... ask yourself, "would I give up 30% of my paycheck as easily?


Assume any reduction is like taking money out of the person''s pocket. WHY > Cause it is.


If a seller has priced the item fairly and competitively, there isn''t much he can afford to give back.. but there may be some.


A lot of factors go into a business sales manager''s or owner''s decision to "take less".


Is he short of cash to pay bills?
Was it a bad sales day?
Can he replace the merchandise for less than he is getting from you?
How long was it in stock?

So what do you do? How DO you negotiate SUCCESSFULLY in your favor.

The secret is KNOWLEDGE.


If you were buying a home, you wouldn''t committ to a price until it was inspected for defects, and very likely appraised.


If you aren''t knowledgeable about the item, then you have to make the negotiation CONDITIONAL. Don''t make it final... that is a big trap!


Tke key to successful negotiation is to know enough about the item, that you are SURE that you want it, and its the right item for you. DON''T SETTLE for an excuse for what you want.


Until you know everything about it, don''t get trapped in negotiation, You''ll always lose.


How do you convince a seller to negotiate the price?



By negotiating from a POSITION OF STRENGTH and FACT.

If you can give solid reasons that are factual as to why the price should be reduced, many sellers will agree.


Use an expert to provide the information if you don''t know it, or cant evaluate stones reliably. The money spent verifying the quality and making sure the stone is what you want, isn''t a cost, its a genuine protection of surety.


A competent appraiser can provide comps where you can see the range of prices that goods of the type you want are sold for. If the price is at the high end, then you have good factual basis for asking AND GETTING a discount.


Once you have the information and confirmations you need to make a prudent buying decision, then its time to negotitate.


People who sell, KNOW many shoppers can not resists what they THINK is a bargain.. and that is how thousands of consumers overpay every day.


One of the biggest traps of course is the deceptive use of a Rapaport sheet, or the deceptive claim that the seller either is a Wholesaler, or sells to the public at the real wholesale prices.


Those who flaunt "Below Wholesale" claims are good signs of a scammer.



Succesful Negotiation takes Power...
Power to negotiate comes from FACTUAL KNOWLEDGE.

hope this helps,,, but it you''re still unsure buy a book on how to sell, it will expose the tricks and secrets of the art of negotiating.


The best way to avoid getting your neck in the "close noose" is to not to be led into price negotiation by the seller. Don''t negotiate until you''re ABSOLUTELY POSITIVE you have the item you sincerely want. Until then, its best to just say as little as possible... let the salesperson play all his cards, while you retain your trump plays till the aboe end.



Deal with strength - the slightest sign of weakness to a sales person is like bait for a shark.

Copyright 2004 Consumers Gem Lab/ Accurate Associates Rockdoc All Rights Reserved

 

Sunni79

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This article will help a lot of people Roc doc!
Good Job!
I am always up for a little negotiation!
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valeria101

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Date: 3/5/2005 10:24:45 PM
Author:RockDoc

A competent appraiser can provide comps where you can see the range of prices that goods of the type you want are sold for. If the price is at the high end, then you have good factual basis for asking AND GETTING a discount.

So... an appraiser could be asked to advice a purchase before there is a diamond selected ? Is this done ?
 

ame

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See I like when they do the "I need the boss''s ok" or the switching thing. Neither he nor I have any problem walking away with a "that''s fine, thanks for your time" and leaving. Usually when you just walk away like that they cave and sell it at that price. If not fine, I don''t want them anyway.

This happened with my car. I took my dad because it was before my fiance was around. They jerked us all over and when my dad got sick of it and we left the guy tried the "that''s the best I can do" line my dad spun around and yelled at him about "no you didn''t. You played games, just like your commercials claim you don''t, and you wasted our whole night and got her hopes up and just yanked it all out from under her. You are just a sleazy liar, we''ll go to (competitor) because she knows they''ll sell it to her for the price she know''s it should sell for". The owner was there and heard it and by the time we got home there was a message on our answering machine from the owner saying that he apologizes for the issues and that they will honor their word and meet the price from the competitor. please come in tomorrow afternoon around 2 because he will be there to ensure my deal goes through properly". So we get there, the guy is there but the sleazy sales guy is still trying to play games and my dad was getting mad and said "Is Andy here yet? How about you don''t come back here till he is". Andy was busy with another customer so he came back when he was done and we got it all done, plus free floormats (really pricey ones) and a free alarm system, because he was so worried Id smear him.

I learned how to walk out from the master of walking out ;-)
 

RockDoc

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Date: 3/5/2005 10:42:20 PM
Author: valeria101

Date: 3/5/2005 10:24:45 PM
Author:RockDoc


A competent appraiser can provide comps where you can see the range of prices that goods of the type you want are sold for. If the price is at the high end, then you have good factual basis for asking AND GETTING a discount.

So... an appraiser could be asked to advice a purchase before there is a diamond selected ? Is this done ?
Of course, determing a selling price takes research, sometimes it can take a few minutes, other times it takes days to find comps.

For jewelry it is possible to get comps in the various markets out there and report a modal range to a client, depending on what he wants to know?

This is why a narrative specifying how the appraiser arrived at his value conclusion ( or conclusions if more than one value is reported) . To just simply call the value RETAIL REPLACEMENT VALUE without explanation of how it is arrived at is professionally negligent.

Neil article - Getting the most from your appraisal is very well written, and explains a lot about valuation.

TOO many appraisers (and sellers) try to justify their values or selling prices from a RAP SHEET... Unfortunately, for consumers who don''t know how to properly use it, it is very "dangerous" to make conclusions based on it. Rapaport also is a diamond broker to the trade. He publishes a listing of stones he has for sale. This is a price list, not a price guide as the more commonly read rap sheet is. Price Guides are about the least reliable source for diamond prices.

Hope this answers your question.

Rockdoc
 

valeria101

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Date: 3/5/2005 11:12:17 PM
Author: RockDoc


Hope this answers your question.
Sure so. Thanks !
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RockDoc

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Date: 3/5/2005 10:59:32 PM
Author: Feydakin
Interesting article, I''m just glad we don''t sell like any of the examples you sited.. I certianly don''t buy from people who do, just ask the guys i''ve bought cars from in the past
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Actually the car business has cleaned it self up. At least as far as promoting the product, thanks to the internet.
Most consumer decisions are made based on website research for cars.

The diamond industry is going through that change now. Consumers are "starving" for product information and knowledge. In fact there is an article about that in Midwest Jeweler.

The problem with many sellers is that they are far more adept at price negotiation than product knowledge. This is why a consumer really needs to know about diamonds and have all the pertinent information about the particular stone they are considering purchasing.

The biggest mistakes I see consumers do, is to put far too much weight on the price than the item they are getting. There is certainly nothing wrong with getting a "good deal" - but only if the diamond ( or any other item for that matter) is the "right one" for them.

People selling are generally well trained in negotiating price, far more so than the consumer is. Sales people are very well trained in selling and getting a commitment from the consumers.

A fabulous sales trainer was a man named J. Douglas Edwards. He was one of the original lecturers on how to close sales. Many large companies had him speak at various seminars. One of his classic directions, that are used by many in sales is:

"When you ask a closing questions SHUT UP. THe person who talks first loses."

I think some libraries have a recording from him... worth the trip and listening to it.

Are there any consumers who sell things that have attended sales seminars? I wish they would chime in on this thread....

Rockdoc
 

strmrdr

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Iv had some sales training but I dont use it much.

The best thing you can do is know the going price for what you want.
When you get to that point or very very slightly below you are likely wasting your time and theirs trying for lower.
I have the clients I deal with trained that they know when I give them a quote its the lowest I can go on it.
I dont play games.
Sometimes maybe we do leave some money on the table working that way but we dont have time to play around.
A new client can be a pain some times but when the second sale comes around it is usually pretty easy.
 

lostdog

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The car dealerships have not all been cleaned up.
 

movie zombie

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for more information about the current state of car sales, see:

"Confessions of a Car Salesman"
/www.edmunds.com/advice/buying/articles/42962/article.html]http://www.edmunds.com/advice/buying/articles/42962/article.html[/url]">

interesting, well written, and good suggestions at the end for your next car buying experience.

peace, movie zombie
 

Regular Guy

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I suppose I''ve been associated with sales & publishing most of my professional life. In this context, I''ve been though lots of sales training programs...some in house, some where 3rd parties have been brought in. In the classic approach, the elements are usually the same:

- information (understand what the customer wants)
- need (pull out the pertinent, get agreement on the need that''s been iterated)
- product (review how ones own product meets the need
- close (should be more incidental work at this point, bringing the obvious elements together)

I''m a student of communication styles, too...and in the Skillpath courses offered up and down from worker bee to management, the 4 - 16 types of learning styles (based on the Jungian archetypes) are frequently reviewed...they review that simple sensitivity to communication styles of your listener/customer can help the process. For those of us who read consumer reports (or is it Pricescope?) before making a purchase, you''ll know we are of a certain type, and we are in the minority.

While at Thomson, one of the bigger information companies, I was introduced to the most elegant training program I had witnessed. Quite a number of people were long in tooth in sales were there, and most of them had the hardest time. The product was textbooks, and the tendency was to focus on the need to be sensitive to the nuances of the details in the presentation of product...even though that''s the first problem a salesperson needs to learn to overcome (not wanting to tell the customer right off what you know!). Anyway, there was no denying the need, in this seminar, to follow the steps reviewed above to accomplish a sale. But the focus on this program was 95%+....just listening, and saying back to the customer what it is you heard. And that was really it.

The point here, I think, is that a salesperson will most often fail by simply being in the way. In contrast, they can be most successful as a simple catalyzer of the process the customer is involved in, helping to understand what they''re trying to accomplish with their purchase. When there''s a lot of product knowledge, and a desire to share it...those things notwithstanding...they can tend to harm rather than help the selling process.

Not exactly sure how this dovetails with your point, Rockdoc, but I''ll agree that when you''re clear about what you want as a customer, you will feel greater success in the outcome of a purchase situation. Consistent with that, and as I''ve reviewed before, in your reasonable interest to want to make a purchase decision be as well executed as possible, gaining knowledge of the available options that you''d consider as an alternative to a purchase decision may be among the best things you can do to negotiate...not to mention...giving yourself permission to ask for a lower than presented price.
 

perry

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I learned to sell with Encylopaedia Brittanica. It took me a year to lean to sell, and another year to get good at it. Then Brittanica shut down home sales.

Bottom line: If you get involved with someone who understands how to sell their product and has a canned presentation (or can get you into their canned presentation) - and you have sufficient credit or cash - you will almost always buy. ALMOST ALWAYS... You are vertually totally at their mercy because the pitch is so good and they know how to handle your "objections."

An example. When Enclycopaedia Brittanica shut down I moved to in home vacuum sales. It was an interesting pitch. All I was to do was show up and demonstrate the product. I wore shorts, sandles, T-shirt or Polo shirt. I looked the farthest thing from a sales person you could immagine...

My first week: 8 pitches, 5 credit approved sales (the norm in that office was 8 pitches 2 credit approved sales). I ended two of the pitches early because there was nothing there (credit zero''s). The other people were on the cusp of financing a house and they were not going to buy anything on credit untill they got their house.

I did not work for them the second week because they decided not to pay me for my sales. I belived that I put the manager to shame and his ego could not stand having someone better than him arround. Too bad for the company, I was gettting ready to call my Brittanica freinds. I had visions of working 3 days a week and making $50,000 per year (a decade ago).

Now I have allergy problems that keep me out of general in home sales (cats, smoke, etc). I have to bail out of too many houses, and the allergy problems lingers for about a week - destroying my effectivness.

I have seen other people be able to do the same thing for other products.

I always laugh when I ask in jewelry stores how are they paid. I know that the best will only work for commission (or largly commission), because that is where the money is.

If you run into one of them - you will be buying. It is a simple as that.

Perry
 

strmrdr

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Date: 3/7/2005 8:32
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Author: perry

"Bottom line: If you get involved with someone who understands how to sell their product and has a canned presentation (or can get you into their canned presentation) - and you have sufficient credit or cash - you will almost always buy. ALMOST ALWAYS... You are vertually totally at their mercy because the pitch is so good and they know how to handle your "objections.""

"If you run into one of them - you will be buying. It is a simple as that."

Perry
Ah the kind of people I love to annoy.
They either get one of 2 responces from me I either toy with them or just walk off.
When I buy I know what I want and how much im willing to pay for it and am willing to walk out until I get it on my terms.
If I dont get it then it wasnt worth having because I allready figured out the cost to want ratio and if it dont meet it then I dont want it.
 

noobie

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Date: 3/7/2005 8:32
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Author: perry

Bottom line: If you get involved with someone who understands how to sell their product and has a canned presentation (or can get you into their canned presentation) - and you have sufficient credit or cash - you will almost always buy. ALMOST ALWAYS... You are vertually totally at their mercy because the pitch is so good and they know how to handle your 'objections.'

You gotta be kidding, right?
 

noobie

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I must be the exception to almost always then...
 

strmrdr

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Date: 3/7/2005 9:44:37 PM
Author: noobie
Date: 3/7/2005 8:32
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Author: perry


Bottom line: If you get involved with someone who understands how to sell their product and has a canned presentation (or can get you into their canned presentation) - and you have sufficient credit or cash - you will almost always buy. ALMOST ALWAYS... You are vertually totally at their mercy because the pitch is so good and they know how to handle your 'objections.'


You gotta be kidding, right?
No he isnt kidding there are exceptions im one but the best of the lot can tell if your an exception in 10 seconds flat and move on.
Iv met 2 that are that good.
Every sale is a chess game to these guys.
They write the scripts for the other sales people if the company can bribe them with enough cash.
But the real bottom line is either you have it or you dont when it comes to sales.

Its the ones that think they are that good that are the most fun :}
I can play them pretty good if im in the right mood.
 

RockDoc

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Interesting comments on this thread....

I guess I miswrote my impression of the auto biz.. I think the manufacturers have made great strides.

Listening to the radio and tv ads here, they sound like a carnival.. Especially the radio ads with the yelling and I can sell you for under invoice prices etc.

Rockdoc
 
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