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Ring Gift Situation???

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fire&ice

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jul 22, 2002
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7,828
I need some insight from the ladies in waiting, from boy late, from Mom''s & anyone else who may have something to add or ponder.

A close relative has been dating his girlfriend for a couple of years. They are so cute together, honestly seem to enjoy each other, seem like best friends, all the family loves her - could you ask for anything more? Well, they are in their last year of college. She will be graduating a bit before him. Natuarally she has been pressuring him for some sort of "where do I fit into your life?" I have no doubt she wants to become engaged. He hasn''t graduated and does not have a job lined up (seems important stalling point for men). She wants to make plans for her future - for example where to apply for a job, etc. His point is she should do what *she* wants to do. He doesn''t want to hold her back from going to a large city far away from him. He wants her to make her own future. Of course, that is not what a lady in waiting wants to hear. I really do believe he is encouraging her - not because he doesn''t see her in his future - but truly because she needs to plan her own future.

Naturally, I see BOTH points of view.

Here is our dilema. I was given a family ring from hubby''s side. It''s pretty nice. It''s a 1c OEC G/SI1. It''s set in a nice illusion setting with diamonds on the side. Even though we are requesting the ring be in total original setting, it is not a deal breaker so the diamond could be reset. My point, not too shabby a ring for a 22 year old. I wore this ring for many years. I never felt like it was really mine - long story so I won''t bore you. As you may know, hubby proposed again 20 years later with my current 3c that I wear as my E-ring. After talking to the original gifter (MIL), it was our intention to give it to this relative when the time was right. Originally when we discussed it he was not even in college. MIL has since passed on. We want to fulfill the promise to give the ring to the relative to be used as an engagement ring.

Through a series of events, we thought the time was right to tell the relative about the ring. It will absolutely be in our possession (read under our insurance
) until a very near pending engagement. We thought we were doing the right thing by notifying the father. He was on board and touched by this initally. Well, a few days later we get a very ODD phone call about not telling the boy, etc. The reason being he thought (read evil SIL who is one of those - be''s owed people with a chip on her shoulder) that the boy may be too impulsive and give him a green light to become engaged. Well, isn''t that the point? But, I can''t help but think evil SIL wants the ring as hers to give (or keep for that matter). The father made some sense that his son will probably come to him when the time was right to buy a ring. But, that may NOT be the case.

Now, we don''t know what to do because there is the point that if the boy has the ring it will give him the green light. But, we certainly want him to know it''s available to him so he doesn''t go out on his own and purchase a ring. It''s his when the time is right.

Should it be his? Should we tell him about the ring? Part of me understands the parents point of view. Part of me feels like they are being very controlling.

What to do? Before the odd phone call calling it off, we had written a letter which included requests (not requirements). For example, have the blessing of his parents, etc.

Do you think it would have bearing on when he gets engaged? Do you think we should tell him about the existence of the ring against the father''s wishes? The boy is a grown adult.

A gift shouldn''t be this complicated.
 

MustangFan

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Feb 27, 2006
Messages
935
IMO I think that shouldn''t should have gone about it the way you did..

If the boy is a grown adult, then why didn''t you just go directly to him and say, hey it''s hear if you want to give it to her...

Now if you go behind the parents back and tell him about it, they are going to be mad at you.

This is a sticky situation with family involved. Maybe you could try to get some hints from "the boy" to see if he''s ready for that step in his life, or ready to call it quits. Are you even close with (I guess this is your nephew?)
Suppose that he does give it to her down the road and he finds someone new, he calls it off, so he mostly likely will tell her out of guilt to keep the ring and the heirloom is gone forever. This is really tough
But I do agree the parents are being over protective, maybe for good reasons, maybe not.
 

fire&ice

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jul 22, 2002
Messages
7,828
Not to get into too much dyanmics of the disfunction - but the reason we called the father was because he specifically inquired about this ring as part of the "estate". He was unaware (which is a lie) that it was given to me 10+ years ago. We wanted him to know the status, since he specifically inquired. I also thought it was a courtesy. Yeah, in hindsight, it was not what should have been done.


We have spoken to him. Boys are a funny nut in that they don''t wear their heart on their sleeves. Bascially, where he is - he doesn''t know what to do. He doesn''t want to loose her. He wants her to have her own wings. He wants to be more stable before making this kind of commitment. So, I really feel that the ring could push him one way or the other.

But, maybe not. I''d love to hear if someone thinks it would make a difference.

I have to say, this boy/man is known for being a bit impulsive.
 

MustangFan

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Feb 27, 2006
Messages
935
I would say that maybe he should get her a promise ring, if he doesn''t want to loose her and let him know that you are "thinking" about giving it to him down the road when he''s graduated from college and has a career going. This will be maybe 2-3 years from now, not long at all, but a long enough time to see if they will grow together or grow apart. You definitely change a lot when you are out on your own, the influence of old friends has since vanished.
It doesn''t seem like he''s ready if he wants to be more stable, which is true, I''m glad that he realises this...
My gut instinct is there is too many family politics and maybe it''s best if you hold off, I don''t think it''s going to change the situation.

Sorry for the misunderstanding about the family situation
 

NYCsparkle

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Jul 23, 2006
Messages
1,371
I think that you should wait on giving it to the boy, because it doesn''t sound like he may be ready for that step in his life yet and if the ring is given to him he may just propose because he has the ring and not because he''s ready. maybe the father knows something about their relationship that you don''t. He may have spoke to his son after you and him discussed the ring. They may be a cute couple now, but they sound like they are young. Maybe you could talk to him about the ring after he graduates has a job. It would probably be best to wait and then approach him directly.
 

firebirdgold

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Nov 30, 2005
Messages
2,216
Don''t tell him. You''ve told his father, and you can tell the boy when he''s a little older.... like out of school. I think he would feel more pressured to propose if he had a ring just sitting there. He''s clearly not ready yet! This really is a case where the girl just isn''t actually listening to the boy.

He''s not ready to get married and they both need to find their own wings and discover who they are once they are in out in the adult world. Maybe they''ll stay together (plenty of long distance relationships on ps that''ve done ok). Maybe they''ll grow apart. If the relationship can''t stand up to her going off to another city then they aren''t right for each other.

Don''t tell the kid about the ring.
 

KimberlyH

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jun 15, 2006
Messages
7,485
I think there is a huge difference between telling him that the ring exists and giving it to him. I probably would have informed him of the ring and its purpose when I first took posession of it just so he was aware of its existance but with no pressure to make use of it. But hindsight is 20/20. At this point, to avoid a family rift, I wouldn''t say anything to your nephew, but I would let my brother know that I disagree with his decision as his son is an adult and it''s up to him when he proposes. This situation is a bit complicated and it seems strange that the parents are so involved in the decision for their son to get married, that alone is enough for me to believe he''s not ready, so perhaps its best that the impulsive "boy" not know about it after all..
 

Liquiddazi

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Aug 25, 2006
Messages
159

Being that I am twenty two, I can completely understand where this could push him over the edge, if he is impulsive. However, he should also be "smart" enough to know if he is ready for committment like this or not.


I have a friend right now that I think the reason he proposed was because he was scared of losing her and she was pushing him very heavily... I think you should just use wisdom. I would tell him that you have the ring and when he is ready for it, to let you know whether that is now, 2 years from now or even 10. Marriage is a lifelong committment and a very hard one to decide upon. It really has to be the "right" person.


I hope this helps at least a little bit.

 

galeteia

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
May 9, 2006
Messages
1,794
Much to my surprise, I''m also completely in favour of him giving her a promise ring.

As a (relatively) recent university grad myself, I have to be cynical and point out that many ''serious'' relationships begun in college don''t last once the couple surface in The Real World. I imagine that part of this is the significant growth a person undergoes in that time, and part of it is the unusual ecosystem that is university life; things that are the pillar of your existence lose relevance as soon as you are done.

If they are truly suited to one another and mature enough to commit to a marriage, then their relationship should be strong enough to pursue their individual lives without jeopardizing it.

If a sign of his commitment is needed, a promise ring should do while they figure themselves out.

If they relationship is strong enough, it should survive a separation just fine.
 

fire&ice

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jul 22, 2002
Messages
7,828
Thanks for you replies. Again, hindsight, I should have done a poll with several options.

I have to admit. I am surprised by all the "hold off" responses. I would assume that LIW would sympathize with *her* issues - unless many of the responders are already engaged or married. I know a few of you are.

Under no circumstances would we just give him the ring. We would just inform him of it''s existence. When he is ready & an impending engagment is eminent, we would give him the ring. The tranference of the actual ring has some formalities involved - so it would be somewhat thought out.

Yeah, I have to trust the parents. It''s just that some relatives feel this is more about control of his life and control of the ring.

I know they are young; but, I was 22 when we became engaged. Though, I was graduated and already started my adult life.

BTW, I completely agree that significant growth happens after graduation. Maybe a promise ring would be a compromise. I''m not trying to solve his problem. It''s a classic and natural situation. On the other hand, many couples become engaged upon graduation. So, I''m trying to look at this objectively. Should he know about the existence of the ring?

Family dynamics are hard to understand. Just briefly, Hubby was promised this ring when he found the "one". Well, hubby made the mistake of going to MIL instead of the the GMIL (whose promised the ring). MIL did not want to give him the ring. He wanted him to wait. My point was "wait until when?". Anyway, much to MIL''s surprise, hubby bought a ring on his own. You can imagine my hurt when the GMIL stated how sparkly my diamond was & understood why I didn''t want her ring.
10 years later it was given to me.


So, I am very sensitive to "restrictions" on the ring. My issues shouldn''t be an issue though. I just don''t want him to go out and buy his own engagement ring because he doesn''t know about this ring.
 

the other Jake

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Nov 9, 2006
Messages
423
As a 22 year old grad student (just graduated undergrad in may) who is planning to propose next month, I think that it is your duty to inform the guy. He should know of the rings existence and should have known for a long time. Just because he parents don't think he's ready- which may be true- doesn't mean he shouldn't know about it. I think he is more than mature enough to handle such information. If I knew about said ring, it wouldn't make me propose- just remove one less obstacle that could be holding me back from a proposal. At our age affording the ring is a big obstacle and I think it is not fair to withhold information at his parents request who obviously has an interest in the ring.
 

decodelighted

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jul 27, 2005
Messages
11,534
Date: 1/30/2007 12:56:14 PM
Author: fire&ice
I just don''t want him to go out and buy his own engagement ring because he doesn''t know about this ring.
Well that *is* ironic ... since you loved the non-family engagement ring your DH bought *you*.
I mean ... worst case scenario here is he buys a promise ring or an e-ring (probably not hugely expensive given his student finances), and there''s an extra diamond or extra p-ring in the mix later. If the "family ring" was an upgrade to what she received originally, they''d both probably be thrilled to get it after the fact & set the original e-stone in a pendant or something.

It''s tricky ... now that the parents have asked you not to tell him I think you should really at least TELL them you feel it''s necessary to go against their wishes if you do plan to tell him. Your reason: this "give it to him" agreement predated their request & he is, in fact, an adult.

One thought: tell him about the ring & tell him he must come to you and ask for it when he''s ready to propose. That stops the impulsiveness thing a bit ... he has to come and ask & get & go through paperwork etc to get the cookie. It''s not like you''re sending it to him in a care package & he can just whip it out during an argument "here, take it"-style.

One more thought: if the ring was used for an impulsive engagement and then NOT given back if the engagement was called off ... would his parents blame you guys for your part in "losing" the family ring? Not that they should! It''s their son ... and it wasn''t even your idea to give it to him necessarily ...

Ooof .. good luck!
 

fire&ice

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jul 22, 2002
Messages
7,828
Thanks again.

Jake - I wish we had told him earlier. But, really we were in a quandry as to give succession to the neice (more guarantee it would stay in the family) or to the nephew. Thanks for your straight response. Hubby feels this way.

Deco - we do have some formalities in the written letter to the nephew about having to ask for his parents blessing (actual blessing not a requirement - but he has to ask). He must ask me in person. He must retrive the ring himself. Yeah, I did love my original engagement ring. And, I was grateful to receive it on our 10 year anni. But, the whole thing left a bad taste in my mouth. It was *supposed* to be *my* engagement ring. It wasn''t because it was withheld.

We are leaning towards going back to talk to the father & explain why we feel that the nephew should know.

I just wish we had handled this differrently from the beginning. But, we didn''t - so now what to do? I really didn''t think that the father would have an issue.
 

widget

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Nov 12, 2004
Messages
4,255
Wow, who knew gift giving could be so complicated?

I guess I think your nephew should know of its existence...but it''s good that he will have to jump through a hoop or two before he gets it.

Does his father know about the "blessing requirement"? Maybe remembering this will help him to turn around on the issue.

I dunno...ditto Deco: Oof


widget
 

fire&ice

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jul 22, 2002
Messages
7,828
Date: 1/30/2007 1:59:17 PM
Author: widget
Wow, who knew gift giving could be so complicated?

I guess I think your nephew should know of its existence...but it''s good that he will have to jump through a hoop or two before he gets it.

Does his father know about the ''blessing requirement''? Maybe remembering this will help him to turn around on the issue.

I dunno...ditto Deco: Oof


widget
Yeah, and "no good deed goes unpunished" come to mind. In all fairness, this is an *engagement* ring. We all know the importance put on it from this board.


I think the angle of going back to the father & telling more detail terms may be the way to go. However, we aren''t requiring that he has his parents blessing - just that he requests it.

One more complication that I haven''t shared with this board. After a short but fatal illness my MIL passed this fall. Prior to her death, after much discussion about the fate of the ring, she was so pleased that it will go to her grandson. To complicate further - MIL ADORED girlfriend.
 

psaddict

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Dec 9, 2006
Messages
105
I agree that it may be a good idea to hold off on telling him about the ring. As others have pointed out, many relationships don''t survive the transition from the fun of college to the "real world." And it already sounds like he''s on the fence and would consider getting engaged only so he "won''t lose her." Throwing a ring on someone''s finger ASAP so you won''t lose them isn''t a good way to start a life together. In my opinion the ring buying process can be really useful, because it forces the guy to put in a lot of time, effort and money, maybe if he started going through the process, he might realize he''s just not ready for this yet. Having a "free ring" handed to him might lead him to make an impulsive decision. Having her nagging him for a commitment and a ring burning a hole in his pocket might end up with him jumping in before he''s ready.
 

Finding_Neverland

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jan 10, 2007
Messages
412
Fire & Ice,...........

I''m older. A mom of kids the age you''re talking about. In fact our son is in the exact same position, almost. Dating a very nice gal and they are nearing Graduation. Son is expressing no level of committment beyond friendship, adoration, and companionship with this gal. He too is encouraging her to seek out her own path in life.

I disagree with others that you should have told from the kid from get go about the ring. YOU were given that ring. It is YOURS until such time as YOU decide to pass it on. The fact that you discussed with your MIL and agreed upon the eventual heir has nothing to do with the timing of the gift.

Personally, a family heirloom such as this,........ I would tend to hang onto until the young man is married and settled. Maybe even with kids. IMHO,........ This is not the type of ring the young man should offer as an engagement ring to any young lady. What if the engagement falls apart??!! That ring would be a gift from him to her. By all rights, any gal could keep your family heirloom as her own.

This is a ring that has been and should stay in your Hubby''s family. You should pass it on when the young man is settled, mature, and stable. When he can fully appreciate his grandmother''s ring and the significance of the family history.

Just my thoughts.
 

poptart

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
May 23, 2006
Messages
1,899
I read all the posts, and maybe I just don''t understand the problem. If it were me, I would just call the kid back up and say, "Whenever you are getting ready to propose (no matter WHO the girl is)just know that this ring is here for you to have". IMO it''s none of the parents business. He''s an adult who is graduating from college soon, so he just needs to figure out what he''s going to do without parents swaying him several different directions. Keep the ring until he calls you and says that he needs it. As for the girl, she should be happy that she is with someone who doesn''t want to limit her. When DH and I were dating he told me I should go to college wherever I wanted and we would figure out who would have to move or how we would work a LD relationship. Maybe they just need to have a serious talk. It sounds to me like he doesn''t quite know what he wants to do with this relationship either yet. Afraid to lose her and scared of the future at the same time.

*M*
 

firebirdgold

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Nov 30, 2005
Messages
2,216
BTW, legally (in most states) an engagment ring is not a gift. It''s.... er... I forgot the term. But basically it''s considered to be a physical manifestation of a contract. When you get engaged you are promising (entering into a contract) to be married. If the engagement is broken for any reason then the ring reverts back to the man as the contract was not fufilled. Once they''re married and then they divorce then the women keeps the ring.
 

fire&ice

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jul 22, 2002
Messages
7,828
Thanks again for all opinions. They are quite enlighting.

Yeah, it is *MY* ring. Something that seems to be escaping some of the relatives.

But, it is the intention that this be used as an *engagement* ring. I seriously see the wisdom of giving it later after they (whoever that may be) are settled. We all wrestled with this heirloom maybe being gone for good. It was a risk worth taking. That is initially why we would consider giving it to the neice. But, at the end of the day, it wasn''t the way it was supposed to be.

The problem with calling him up is that having this ring available could send him over the edge into engagement. It may be a non issue with him; but, he has told his parents that he doesn''t have the money for a ring.

Also, I see the wisdom of buying his own engagement ring - or at least going through the motions. If we don''t tell him, it is my hope that he will enlist someone in the family to help him & give way to his pending plan. That would be the perfect world. But, I do know how much it meant to me that my hubby was serious enough to not be swayed by the temperment of his mother witholding the ring that should have been used.

All options are still on the table. I do appreciate all responses.

Indie - correct. The "ownership" of the ring varies from State to State. Most states fall on the "give the ring back if the marriage contract is not fullfilled. But, you are still at the mercy of the women to do the right thing without having to bring legal action. You would be surprised how that topic became quite the heated discussion on PS a few years ago.
 

the other Jake

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Nov 9, 2006
Messages
423
I don''t think its fair that all the people around him are making decisions that he should be informed of. Maybe he thinks he can''t get engaged because he can''t afford it. If this is the case, as it was with me- you are denying letting the ring to be used for exactly what you want it to be used for. He should at least know about the ring- even if it might not be intended for him to use. Then if he wants to use it, even if its several years later, he should ask. Knowing about it is not the same as having or giving access to it.
 

ljmorgan

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Mar 5, 2006
Messages
1,037
fire&ice, if I may, I really doubt telling this man about the ring would send him "over the edge on engagement" -- he''s a man, not a lady in waiting
The ring is yours... and if you''d like to give it to him to give to his future fiance, that should be totally between you and him. For all you know, lack of money for a ring might be all that is holding him back now. I don''t think telling him "hey I''d love to offer you a ring for engagement if you''re thinking about that at all" and just see if he''s even headed in that direction. Trust me, I really doubt a man will get engaged if he''s not ready, just because someone offers him a ring that he can use whenever he''s ready. From the stories on the LIW board, men buy the ring knowing they''re ready to propose, and STILL wait forever
Good luck!
 

FireGoddess

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jan 25, 2005
Messages
12,145
Hmmm...random thoughts here....

If he were ready to get engaged to this woman but didn''t have the money, I would think he''d say more than ''go wherever you want/need to go''...at least to the point of discussing potential relocation locales if he would seriously be following her somewhere when he''s done. Perhaps he''s not ready to make that level of commitment? I''m sure if I were her I''d want to have some sort of thing ''nailed down'' before I plan my life around someone, but it is a young age in this day to have that kind of commitment.

I guess I would say that it would be good for him to know this ring exists and *sometime in the future* (near or far) when he wants to get engaged, it''s his, but perhaps for now a promise ring might be more in order? I triple the ''ooof!!''
 

the other Jake

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Nov 9, 2006
Messages
423
Maybe he plans to follow her wherever she goes so it doesn''t matter what she chooses. Just because he says go where you want to go isn''t the same as saying he doesn''t care.
 

anchor31

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Oct 18, 2005
Messages
7,074
Or... maybe he just loves her enough to let her go wherever she needs to go to make her dreams come true and is committed enough to make this work no matter what. This situation happened to FI and I when I started college and those were his reasons for saying that "I need to make my own future". He may be holding off the proposal for fear that she will take it as a request to stay if she wants to leave.
 

havernell

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Nov 10, 2006
Messages
571
Could you (or the guy''s parents) just tell him something like "before you buy and engagement ring (whenever that may be) check with us first because there MAY OR MAY NOT BE some family stones that could POSSIBLY be used".

Saying something more vauge like this will 1) get him to let his engagement plans known to the family before buying a ring , 2) won''t push him into proposing when he is not quite ready because (as far as he knows) there is no ring just ready to go- it would take some time to look into the family stone situation, and 3) gives him an out in case he and/or the girlfriend do not like the look of the family ring/ want to buy their own for whatever reason.

Also, if he is told straight up "this ring is for you" and the girlfriend hears about it, you can be sure she WILL push him for a proposal, which may not be the best thing for him/them in the long run.

So, basically, I''d go with the vauge "there is possibly a stone for you" tactic.

Good luck with it all!
 

Bunnifer

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Sep 26, 2006
Messages
227
Is her name Amber and is she a new PS member?

Sorry, I couldn''t resist...
 

fire&ice

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jul 22, 2002
Messages
7,828
Date: 1/31/2007 5:13:09 PM
Author: Bunnifer
Is her name Amber and is she a new PS member?

Sorry, I couldn''t resist...


...just goes to show how normal a situation this is.

And, Lindsay - I told my husband what you said. From a man''s point of view he could totally relate. As he says, all men need a bit of a nudge.


I guess I''m being paranoid. And, I do think his parents are having an OS moment; but he is an adult.
 
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