Richard Ogden Jewelers UK

[mousey]

Hi Everyone,
Before I start I d like to say that I think this forum is pretty amazing. There seems to be so many people willing to share their expertise in order to help others- I don t think I ve ever seen that before.
My boyfriend and I have been thinking about engagement rings for a little while now. We started with the thought of a diamond, but then he suggested a pink sapphire, and I loved the idea. We looked at the Natural Sapphire Company, but since we live in the UK, we decided the Import tax and postage would be too much.
So we found a picture of a ring online

http://www.richardogden.com/jewellery/item.php?i=1238

We went to see the ring today- and I love it! The jewelers seemed really nice. I asked whether it was heat treated, and they said almost definitely, and I asked whether it was chemically treated, and they said almost definitely not.
Has any one heard of this jewelers? Also, do you think 2200 pounds (approx 3100 dollars) is a good price for such a ring?
I did see a similar ring in another jewelers for around the same price, but it seemed ''dead'' looking, and the workmanship was not great (to my untrained eye) by comparison. To me, there seemed something special about the richardogden ring.
Thanks for any replies in advance.

 

[innerkitten]

My honest opinion? The ring is very pretty but I think you can do better for $3000 even with taxes. Plus they don''t seem to have much info on the stone. Have you looked around at any of the other colored stone web sites or spoken to any of the gem cutters? Exactly how much is the import tax? I know there are a few PSers from the UK that might have some advice.

 

[innerkitten]

BTW if you do really love it and you want it you should have it. But you might be able to do a similar ring.
There are some pink sapphires on this page
http://www.thegemtrader.com/Gems%20SR%20Page%201.htm

and some pinks here. But these are concave cuts
http://www.webgraphicsengineering.com/Gemstones/query3.cfm?yVarieties=Fancy%20Sapphire&ySpecies=Corundum

 

[LD]

Hello - I''m in the UK too!

I''m afraid that I agree and would say that the ring is very overpriced (sorry). If I were spending that money on a sapphire it would definitely have to be certified so you knew exactly what treatments had been applied. For me, heat treatment is ok (but I''d still hesitate paying that for a heat treated stone) but other treatments much less so.

Have you looked at this site? http://www.simplysapphires.com/html/pink.html One word of caution, you will need to add on customs, import duties and if it''s shipped by certain couriers you''ll have a tax to pay with them too. Assume anything from between 20-30%. You may however be able to negotiate a discount with a US seller to offset those costs.

 

[LD]

This may not be your thing but I LOVE this! http://www.simplysapphires.com/html/imagesjewelry2006/069tmr-sm.html

The second ring down on this site may be of interest and it''s half the price of the one you''ve seen http://www.colorsymphony.com/store/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=8_23_35 I''ve had email traffic with Jill who makes these rings and she''s really lovely.

 

[oldmancoyote]

Import duties on loose stones into the UK are nil. VAT at standard rate is payable on the whole declared value, including shipping costs (if declared, so ask the supplier not to specify them on the invoice - perfectly legal tax avoidance), plus shipping costs and processing fees - you''ll need to ask the courier for that.

Mounted stones and other jewellery items are subject to 2.5% import duty, plus VAT on the dutied value as above.

 

[mousey]

Thanks everyone.
I think I will ring around a few places and ask if they will give a discount to offset the expense (thanks lovingdiamonds). Is it legal to ask them to not declare the value oldmancoyote?

 

[mousey]

I have just had an idea.... Oldmancoyote said that there is no import VAT on stones. Maybe I could buy the stone, and get RichardOgden to set it- copying the ring I love. Then it would be the best of both worlds!!! The reason I loved the ring is that it was so simple. I have weird fingers (my nick name at school was ET phone home), so I wanted something very simple.

 

[LD]

Date: 3/7/2009 5:02:26 AM
Author: mousey
I have just had an idea.... Oldmancoyote said that there is no import VAT on stones. Maybe I could buy the stone, and get RichardOgden to set it- copying the ring I love. Then it would be the best of both worlds!!! The reason I loved the ring is that it was so simple. I have weird fingers (my nick name at school was ET phone home), so I wanted something very simple.

I buy both loose gemstones and jewellery from all over the world and I can categorically tell you that charges will apply in all respects - it varies on whether it's VAT, Import Duties, Courier Charges etc etc etc. In terms of loose gemstones, VAT and courier charges and various other handling costs applies unless the seller specifically says it's a sample or (illegally) states it's synthetic and puts a low value on the package. Of course, that may also affect insurance of your package in the event it goes missing so it can be a double edged sword. You're totally right that asking a seller to change the amount of the invoice is avoidance of customs (with the exception of postage charges) and can get the seller into trouble. Some will do it, some won't. Despite what charges you read about on the internet, I promise you that typically you need to add on 20% to cover the various costs. That's why I suggested asking for a discount up front so it will offset the charges.

If you're going to buy a loose stone make sure it's from a reputable seller that has a great returns policy - but bear in mind that if you're buying from abroad, the costs of shipping to you and back can mount up so get lots of pictures / video from the seller beforehand. You can always post on here and people will help if you've got any concerns about one you're considering buying.

Lastly, I still wouldn't use Richard Ogden as they're overpriced. If you buy a gemstone that's calibrated (i.e. fits a standard mount so, for example, 8 x 6, 10 x 8, 6 x 4 etc) or almost calibrated (i.e. 8.12 x 5.93) you can buy an off the shelf setting and then have a local jeweller mount it for you for around £20-30. Look on Ebay at a seller called lordofgemrings he has lots of settings to choose from. There's another called lanbo4 as well. Typically, you'll get a very nice setting for around £300 (with VS diamonds).

Good luck in your search and be sure to post up pictures won't you?

 

[Pandora II]

Have to go out so will post more later. Haven't looked at the pics yet....

Just want to say that I use Richard Ogden for anything I need doing in London. They have always done a great job and their prices were very reasonable.

They also completely understood my paranoia about my tsavorite - rang me mid-way through the work they were doing to check a detail with me and provided a table with a selection of loupes and great lighting for me to check things when I picked it up.

I would definitely feel comfortable about asking them to do setting for me (I'm likely to be heading down there in the next month or so for that very reason).

Taxes into the UK should be about 17-18% at the moment - VAT + 2/3% duty (check customs website)

 

[oldmancoyote]

Date: 3/7/2009 5:02:26 AM
Author: mousey
I have just had an idea.... Oldmancoyote said that there is no import VAT on stones. Maybe I could buy the stone, and get RichardOgden to set it- copying the ring I love. Then it would be the best of both worlds!!! The reason I loved the ring is that it was so simple. I have weird fingers (my nick name at school was ET phone home), so I wanted something very simple.

No - there is no import duty on loose stones - VAT is payable anyway. So that brings 15% on top of shipping and admin costs. Plus 2.5% duty if you import jewellery. What kills you is VAT, which unfortunately is always payable.

If no value is declared (which the courier may object to, since they know it delays the package in transit) you leave yourself open to the mercy of the HMRC inspector who has to assess a fair value. It may work in your favour, it may not (guess which way it goes normally?

)

 

[mousey]

Thank you, everyone, for being so helpful. Loving Diamonds, you really seem to know a lot. Could you recommend a jeweler in the UK (preferably London) that would be able to sell me a similar ring, but not overpriced. Our budget is circa 2000 pounds.

 

[LD]

I''m not in London anymore I''m afraid but for that budget you should be able to get a great deal. Pandora (see above) has used Richard Ogdens and does recommend them. I use diamondgeezer.com (who are based in the Birmingham jewellery quarter and also in Bourton on the Water) to make bespoke pieces or off the shelf ones. I do everything by email/phone with them so you don''t actually have to go there. Don''t be put off by their name - they''re great but they specialise in diamonds rather than coloured gemstones - so you''d be better getting your stone from one of the sellers listed at the top of this bit of PS and then giving it to them to set.

Personally I buy all of my stones from abroad (and if I''m paying more than £200 it MUST be certified so I know about treatments etc) and then I use diamondgeezer for a bespoke setting OR buy one from Ebay and then get it set.

Just as an aside, don''t be tempted to buy a pink sapphire from one of the UK gemstone shopping channels (GemsTV, Rocks & Co, The Jewellery Channel) because ALL of their sapphires are BE treated. If you don''t mind that treatment then you can buy stunning looking jewellery. Actually as a thought, I''ve sometimes bought items from GemsTV and Rocks & Co just for the settings, taken out the rubbish central stones and then set my own!!!!!

 

[Gailey]

Hey Captain Scarlet (LD),

Isn''t Richard Ogden that jeweller that always used to advertise on the back cover of magazines? Looked like he had a lot of antique items.

BTW, I always wanted to be an angel when I was little!

 

[LD]

Date: 3/7/2009 12:30:40 PM
Author: Gailey
Hey Captain Scarlet (LD),

Isn''t Richard Ogden that jeweller that always used to advertise on the back cover of magazines? Looked like he had a lot of antique items.

BTW, I always wanted to be an angel when I was little!

Not sure about the advertising Gailey - quite possibly.

LOVE LOVE LOVE the new avatar - flobalob!

 

[Gailey]

Date: 3/7/2009 1:07:24 PM
Author: LovingDiamonds

Date: 3/7/2009 12:30:40 PM
Author: Gailey
Hey Captain Scarlet (LD),

Isn''t Richard Ogden that jeweller that always used to advertise on the back cover of magazines? Looked like he had a lot of antique items.

BTW, I always wanted to be an angel when I was little!

Not sure about the advertising Gailey - quite possibly.

LOVE LOVE LOVE the new avatar - flobalob!

Thanks CS, I know - it''s a hoot. But goodness we are all showing our age aren''t we?

I think I''m going to be Florence next, or maybe Lady Penelope!!

I thought Bill and Ben was quite apt for me since I''m a gardener.

Hail to Lorelei for kicking this off!!

 

[Pandora II]

Ogdens is one of the oldest jewellers in London and very well-respected.

The owner''s cousin (or uncle - I forget) is the Chief Executive of the Gemmological Association of Great Britain.

Personally I buy all my coloured stones overseas - mainly online - as I haven''t yet found someone here who can supply what I want at the price I am happy with (and believe me I have looked!)

If you spend plenty of time talking to the vendor about what you are looking for and ask for photos (GemeWizard can be a useful (and free) tool for describing colour accurately over the internet) then you shouldn''t have to pay to send things backwards and forwards. I''ve never yet returned a stone or felt I wanted to return it.

For your budget, I would recommend looking at heated stones as you will find a bigger choice than you will going with unheated. I highly recommend contacting either Richard M. at www.artcutgems.com (who had some lovely sapphires recently) or Wink Jones at www.winkjones.com and see if they have anything suitable. Most vendors only have a small part of their inventory on their websites, so always worth asking what they have stashed away or can get hold of.

Both of them can also do the setting side as well. The setting design shouldn''t be hard to find at Stulller or similar, so you should be able to do it well within your budget.

I hate photos of that sort - you can never properly tell what the piece is really like from them. Grrrrrrr. However, I will say that I love looking in Ogden''s windows and some of their old cut diamonds are incredible.

 

[Gailey]

Date: 3/7/2009 11:11:14 AM
Author: LovingDiamonds
I''m not in London anymore I''m afraid but for that budget you should be able to get a great deal. Pandora (see above) has used Richard Ogdens and does recommend them. I use diamondgeezer.com (who are based in the Birmingham jewellery quarter and also in Bourton on the Water) to make bespoke pieces or off the shelf ones. I do everything by email/phone with them so you don''t actually have to go there. Don''t be put off by their name - they''re great but they specialise in diamonds rather than coloured gemstones - so you''d be better getting your stone from one of the sellers listed at the top of this bit of PS and then giving it to them to set.

Personally I buy all of my stones from abroad (and if I''m paying more than £200 it MUST be certified so I know about treatments etc) and then I use diamondgeezer for a bespoke setting OR buy one from Ebay and then get it set.

Just as an aside, don''t be tempted to buy a pink sapphire from one of the UK gemstone shopping channels (GemsTV, Rocks & Co, The Jewellery Channel) because ALL of their sapphires are BE treated. If you don''t mind that treatment then you can buy stunning looking jewellery. Actually as a thought, I''ve sometimes bought items from GemsTV and Rocks & Co just for the settings, taken out the rubbish central stones and then set my own!!!!!

LD,

I''ve just sent my sister a pair of amethysts that Peter Toracca cut for me. She lives in Malvern, which is a nice day out to Bourton-on-the-Water (we used to go to the bird sanctuary as kids). Can you give me the name of the jeweller there that you use.

Thanks Hon