Retail jeweller lying?

[dragonslayer]

Hi all,
new to this forum but I have been reading for a while. I had an experience with a local, reputable jeweller the other day and was wondering what everyones thoughts were on the advice he gave me.

I recently purchased a good quality diamond and setting through a very reputable online vendor but I haven't received the item yet. I wanted to check out a few local jewellers and give them the exact specifics of the diamond and setting I purchased online to see what price they could do it for... Needless to say, none of the jewellers could come close. One of the jewellers did ask me if I had been looking online and checking prices there because he thought that I knew a little too much about what I was after i.e. I'm an educated buyer.
He then went on to say that buying online was a bad idea and that the diamonds you get online are inferior to the ones he stocks because the diamonds you buy online are the ones that no retailers want!

Just wondering if this has been said to anyone else before and if so, what your thoughts are on it?

 

[distracts]

Absolutely untrue. If not a lie, at least an incredibly ignorant statement. It's not like online jewelers get to pick their diamonds last, or something - especially since many are virtual diamonds which are owned by someone else and just sold by the end jeweler, and they pull from the exact same virtual pools that many brick and mortar jewelers do. We have seen multiple times on here people pick out a stone from a B&M jeweler only to look up the report number and find that they can get the same stone for less from an online retailer (which is kind of a dishonest way to shop, imo, but some people really looking for a bargain do it). As with B&M locations, there are places online where you can find good diamonds by the truckload, and places where it'll be a lot harder. A lot of B&M jewelers are bitter because they're losing a lot of business to the internet and can't figure out how to gain it back.

 

[madelise]

I was told this by my go-to local jeweler. I no longer "go-to" that jeweler.

 

[vishke8]

I completely agree with Distracts.

Local jewelers are insecure about loosing their business to the online jewelry stores.

One of my friends had a similar experience with a local jeweler but went ahead and ordered her ring from an online store and she was surprised to see the quality of the ring. It was absolutely brilliant. She got the original certificate with a laser inscription of the diamond's certificate number on it. The package came with a 30 days return time.

That's when I decided to shop online for our rings.

There are some really genuine website which offer excellent stuff.

I would advice to search a diamond online check for the prices and always ask for Gemologist's feedback and ASET images if possible. Do not forget to clear all your doubts and check for return policy before you order.

Good Luck

 

[hoynnij]

I think that argument by the jeweller is really only applicable to people who really dont know much about diamonds, and thus they wouldnt know how to pick a good one online. Having said that, they wouldnt know how to pick a good one in person either, so it is a rather invalid argument.

I have also come across this from many B&M jewellers (actually, probably all of them that I have spoken to), and I think it is because of their fear of losing business, as well as to their ignorance/lack of knowledge on just what the online vendors are offering these days.

 

[dragonslayer]

Thanks for the replies guys... I thought as much. I have no worries about my purchase now

 

[Enerchi]

I had a custom ring designed by a local B&M store in my city - one of the higher end companies here with this apparently "stellar" reputation (HA! ). I heard that same schpeel from him about the 2 side princess stones I had purchased on line, then I got a nasty speech from him about "you can't get a deal on the diamonds, then expect me to give you a deal on design and labour" (for the record - I never EVER asked for anything - this was an unprovoked comment). Stupidly, I still was too much of a sheep to walk away and use these HUGE RED FLAGS as future clues....

Since that disasterous ring is now a memory, I have had nothing but WONDERFUL online experiences with a few PS vendors! I hope you enjoy your item and put away that stupid notion brought to you by a retailer who is afraid of losing business!

 

[denverappraiser]

I would add another piece. A fair fraction of the 'online' jeweler community consists of no more and no less than jewelers who happen to be in someone elses neighborhood. It's the way jewelers can sell to people who aren't within easy driving distance of the showroom. They may be what you're looking for and they may not but their address or the way they advertise is NOT the important difference.

 

[woofmama]

I purchased my diamond online at a very fair price and then went to four different family owned jewelers in my area to shop for settings. All of the jewelers I visited sell Gia certed stones and high quality brands. Every one of them were extremely complimentary regarding the cut of my diamond and said it was a beautiful stone. I couldn't help but feel the mood change when they asked were I got the diamond and I told them James Allen. One owner insisted on weighing it saying she wanted to make sure I didn't get scammed, even though I had my Gia cert in my hand. I told her it wasn't necessary, that I was more than happy with my purchase and didn't come to her store for a critque of my decision. I was willing to give any of these jewelers the setting sale because I need to see/ try on things in person, I've done business with them in the past and had positive experiences, I own a small store myself and understand what it takes to stay in business.
None of the the stores seemed to want to work with me on the setting. Every store quoted me their full price which is double what they can actually sell for. So now they have lost the opportunity to work with me in the future, I consider myself savvy and research the hell out of everything. Try to rip me off, you're dead to me. One jeweler quoted me $2700.00 for the exact setting I ended purchasing through Pearlmans online for half of that!!! I love Pricescope, it really opened my eyes

 

[diamondseeker2006]

If he were smart, he'd get into the online business like Good Old Gold and Pearlman's did.

I tried hard to spend my money locally. The only diamond I ever saw that even came close to ideal cut quality was a Hearts on Fire diamond that cost about 30% more than a comparable H&A stone from one of the vendors here. About the only piece of jewelry I have bought locally in the last 7 years was a watch. But I have bought quite a bit from 3-4 vendors here.

 

[Niel]

I went to a B&M store to get my setting because I wanted to spend my money locally (my state isnt exactly leading the way in economic recovery) I told them I bought my diamond online and all they said was "where was it certified?" Once I told them GIA they told me they would look around to see if they could find a better price (this was when my stone was still in transit). They priced me other comparable stones, some around the same price, some a few hundred cheaper, but because my pear had flour, which they could not find in the other pears she found, and because mine faced up more like a 1 ct+ than a .9 (which the one she found didnt ) she understood why I stayed with the stone I had and was happy to assist me with my setting. The set actually was cheaper than if I had bought it from the online vendor that I had purchased the stone from. So it all worked out.

However I do know what you mean. I went into a mall store to see exactly what a 1ct pear would look like on my hand and they were very helpful, but then they asked me where I had gotten my stone; assuming sense it was a pear it was an heirloom stone or something. As soon as I told them it was an online vendor they were disinterested. I think because they knew I was a more educated consumer, and an educated consumer wasnt going to fall for some of the same song and dance and uneducated one would.

i think some less than trustworthy vendors will try and feed on the fear that is inherent in buying an expensive item from an online vendor. The will try and plant the seed of doubt to try and win you back to there side. Because we all have heard some story about someone buying an expensive ring on e-bay and ended up getting taken, so they try to equate all online stores with that sort of "risky" shopping. But what i dont understand is why they would take the risk. Like my example, the woman was open with me about the stone, didnt try and scare me, and with that she earned my business for the setting.

 

[soocool]

When I was looking for diamond huggies, one b&m jeweler told me not to waste his time. Though he carries beautiful items in his store, he is a class A jerk. I probably would have purchased a colored stone pendant for my DD in his store but because he treated me like an idiot he lost whatever business I may have given him.

 

[Niel]

When I was looking for diamond huggies, one b&m jeweler told me not to waste his time. Though he carries beautiful items in his store, he is a class A jerk. I probably would have purchased a colored stone pendant for my DD in his store but because he treated me like an idiot he lost whatever business I may have given him.

holy cow thats so rude!!!

 

[dragonslayer]

I would add another piece. A fair fraction of the 'online' jeweler community consists of no more and no less than jewelers who happen to be in someone elses neighborhood. It's the way jewelers can sell to people who aren't within easy driving distance of the showroom. They may be what you're looking for and they may not but their address or the way they advertise is NOT the important difference.

Thats exactly right... a lot of the local retail jewelers around here have been in the game for years and aren't very computer savvy so probably don't believe in selling online. Then they resent those smart enough to do so and capture a market that is becoming increasingly educated... Some of the quotes i got from locals were double what I ended up paying.

 

[Gypsy]

Lying or ignorant, result is the same. The information is false.

I wouldn't waste my time further on them.

Also, for anyone who is shopping locally with an online diamond-- why tell them anything?

Here is the conversation:
I'm looking for a setting for my diamond. The shape is _______, the measurements are ________. My budget is this __________. Can you help me?

Where did you get the diamond?
If you are a woman: I don't know, my FI proposed with a loose stone, knowing that I would want to pick my own setting.
If you are a man: I already own the stone, can you assist me with a setting?
Or
From a family friend, but he doesn't have any settings I care for.

That's it.

Don't give them details.

 

[vishke8]

Agree with Gypsy, why waste our time answering their stupid questions.

Its none of their business where we got the diamond and at what price.

Happy Thanksgiving everyone

 

[KaeKae]

I completely agree with Gypsy and vishke8. I'll bet that your same jeweler wouldn't stick his nose up at the opportunity to reset a diamond you already had, so how is that different than setting a stone you've acquired from another source? I reset my ering a few years ago, my local jeweler seemed happy to do business with me, though I chose a simple, split shank setting (no side stones) so it wasn't a very lucrative job. That job established a business relationship, and I now use him for repairs, and I will go to him first the next time I'm looking for a bigger purchase.

 

[MichelleCarmen]

I've heard just about everything from B&M jewelers! They're competing with online vendors so they want to discourage you from buying from online b/c the jeweler you were talking to wants your business. And, just one example: I took a pair of studs to Jared's and a sales guy told me they were cloudy and low-quality...I also took the same earrings to Ben Bridge to have cleaned and the gals were so impressed that they told me they were one of the prettiest pairs of studs they had ever seen! Someone wasn't telling the truth... (and I had received MANY compliments on the earrings whenever wearing them!)

 

[Dreamer_D]

haha, that is a new one. Yes, he is lying to you.

 

[Enerchi]

Ah Gypsy!!! Ever the wise woman!! Do you stay up late thinking of awesome things to post???? You always have the perfect thing to say - YIPPEE for being back on the forum!!


Dragonslayer- hows the hunt going? Where are you at now? did you ditch the local retailer and come to the "DARK SIDE" of online vendors?? (I say that in jest - the PS vendors here are amazing - I hope you able to use one of them!)

 

[woofmama]

Lying or ignorant, result is the same. The information is false.

I wouldn't waste my time further on them.

Also, for anyone who is shopping locally with an online diamond-- why tell them anything?

Here is the conversation:
I'm looking for a setting for my diamond. The shape is _______, the measurements are ________. My budget is this __________. Can you help me?

Where did you get the diamond?
If you are a woman: I don't know, my FI proposed with a loose stone, knowing that I would want to pick my own setting.
If you are a man: I already own the stone, can you assist me with a setting?
Or
From a family friend, but he doesn't have any settings I care for.

That's it.

Don't give them details.

Great advice-I wish I had realized this before telling the local stores where I had purchased my stone. No matter, any future purchases will be online. I have a good relationship with the local store I purchased my band at so I can rely on them for cleaning or repairs.

 

[milton333]

One reason I don't get into where I get my diamonds from is that I'm not looking to get an opinion on the quality, and not looking to shop to replace them, so there's nothing a B&M vendor can offer other than criticism that will make me unhappy. For what it's worth, I do feel badly for a lot of B&M jewelers, it is very hard to compete on pricing with some online vendors (think mom & pop shop versus Wal-Mart). A B&M jeweler should be looking to compete in other ways - excellent quality stones that are close in price to what you can get online (I agree with Gypsy that it's hard to find decent quality stones at B&M jewelers), and/or unique jewelry creations and service (i.e., excellent jewelry bench work). Diamonds are commodities, and it's very easy for me to compare apples to apples on price, but settings leave a lot of room to make up the margins, to offer high-quality pieces that someplace like BN can't offer due to mass production. I'll spend a lot more on a locally-crafted, memorable setting. Of course, I rarely find those, either. With regard to B&M jewelers, I do feel for them trying to compete in the modern marketplace, much like I felt for Polaroid, but you need to find a way to adapt to changing times, and most aren't doing that.

 

[distracts]

One reason I don't get into where I get my diamonds from is that I'm not looking to get an opinion on the quality, and not looking to shop to replace them, so there's nothing a B&M vendor can offer other than criticism that will make me unhappy. For what it's worth, I do feel badly for a lot of B&M jewelers, it is very hard to compete on pricing with some online vendors (think mom & pop shop versus Wal-Mart). A B&M jeweler should be looking to compete in other ways - excellent quality stones that are close in price to what you can get online (I agree with Gypsy that it's hard to find decent quality stones at B&M jewelers), and/or unique jewelry creations and service (i.e., excellent jewelry bench work). Diamonds are commodities, and it's very easy for me to compare apples to apples on price, but settings leave a lot of room to make up the margins, to offer high-quality pieces that someplace like BN can't offer due to mass production. I'll spend a lot more on a locally-crafted, memorable setting. Of course, I rarely find those, either. With regard to B&M jewelers, I do feel for them trying to compete in the modern marketplace, much like I felt for Polaroid, but you need to find a way to adapt to changing times, and most aren't doing that.

I'd feel bad except most of the ones I've met are jerks... I think the BEST way they can compete is by having excellent in-person service, which is something an online jeweler can never do in the same way. My local jeweler who I go to does, and every time I'm in there, no matter what time of day, there are at least three other customers there at all times. And the reason is that the staff is SO AWESOME. I try to find one piece of jewelry a month that I need to have repaired or altered just so I can have an excuse to go in and chat with them... and pay them money. Judging by a lot of the things I see other people bringing in, I think I'm not the only one who does that. Everyone who works there is actually a jeweler (not just salespeople), and they're all friendly and knowledgeable and happy to chat about any jewelry piece and let you try on everything even if they know you're just waiting to get a repair back. But most of the other jewelers I've gone to are haughty and rude and will insult my small budget or the fact that my sapphire isn't pure blue but slightly grey (which I picked on purpose - I specifically asked for a greyish blue because that is what I personally find prettiest!), and be really confused/upset that I know what I'm talking about, or whatever. And then there's the one that insulted my mom's engagement ring so hard she made my mom cry. Look, I just don't have sympathy for anyone who acts like that. Yeah, those people are losing business to online jewelers, but they should. My local guy is still doing pretty well, and he deserves to be.

 

[Niel]

Lying or ignorant, result is the same. The information is false.

I wouldn't waste my time further on them.

Also, for anyone who is shopping locally with an online diamond-- why tell them anything?

Here is the conversation:
I'm looking for a setting for my diamond. The shape is _______, the measurements are ________. My budget is this __________. Can you help me?

Where did you get the diamond?
If you are a woman: I don't know, my FI proposed with a loose stone, knowing that I would want to pick my own setting.
If you are a man: I already own the stone, can you assist me with a setting?
Or
From a family friend, but he doesn't have any settings I care for.

That's it.

Don't give them details.

To me i feel like I shouldn't have to lie or give misinformation to a company. I haven't done anything wrong my purchasing my diamond elsewhere. And really that seems like an easy way to see if that B&M is worth doing business with. If they respond with something unprofessional then you know upfront they are not a jeweler you want to work with. Sure you don't have to tell them the truth but if I have to lie to get good service then I wouldn't want to work with them.

 

[denverappraiser]

There are some really unique dynamics in the diamond business. Nearly every customer starts out by looking for stones at the local stores. A fair fraction end up there but nearly every one would PREFER to shop locally even to the point that they would be willing to pay extra for the privilege to do so. What’s in debate is how much extra. In the case of bridal shoppers, it gets even better. The shopper (the groom usually) is highly motivated. He’s going to buy somewhere and probably do it fairly soon. He’s saved up his money, he’s put a fair amount of thought into it and is ready to jump.

Unlike nearly everything else you buy, the customer is NOT the consumer. It’s being purchased for someone else. The decision to buy or not buy is NOT about the merits or demerits of the stone, the store or the ring. It’s about the merits or demerits of the girl. What’s on the table is exactly what he wants to buy and who he’s going to buy it from.

Most shoppers don’t know much about what makes one stone or one ring more expensive than the next. It’s mostly a blind item and they are relying on outside advice in the form of salespeople, Internet blogs, tutorials, books, friends, advertising, brochures, appraisers, and others to develop a feel for how it works. The advice received is decidedly conflicting so it’s necessary to choose some and reject others out of hand. There’s a flood of this and every merchant will tell you why they’re the best and why those other guys are to be avoided. BS abounds. The key is education and education leads to trust. This is not a tutorial on staff training, it’s just an observation of the dynamics of jewelry stores. Customers are hungry for education, and they are going to get it from a variety of sources. Whoever they determine provides the best education is going to get the highest level of trust and whoever gets the trust gets the business (as well they should by the way).

I do have some sympathy for the locals in that the education there involves looking at inventory in some pleasant environment that they’ve built, talking to salespeople etc. All of these things cost a fair amount of money and they’re offered to you for free in the hopes that eventually you’ll buy something. That’s the way their business model works. Online folks have some costs too but a good tutorial can educate thousands of people while a personal sales person has to do it one at a time. One good writer and/or photographer can reach a LOT more people so the whole staff training problem becomes far easier to handle. Lists of inventory cost very little to produce and people tend to not understand that lists and photographs are not the same thing as actual merchandise. Most B&M stores can get a very similar selection to what you see on the Internet sites but the expectation on them is that they’ll have goods in hand that you can compare side by side while the expectation on Internet sellers is that they have lots of data. All of this means that the costs of a typical consumer education fall disproportionately on the local retailers. This is what pisses them off. They go through all of this trouble and expense on ‘free’ services and then the customers buy the most expensive part from some discounter far away.

None of this is an excuse for rudeness or bad behavior. They chose their business model and they are under no requirement to do it. If they don’t want to be selling diamonds, they don’t have to do it. There’s money in settings and there’s money in assembly and repair labor. In the classic jewelry store of a few decades ago, the profit came in selling diamonds but that was then and this is now. Margins have plummeted for this because customers do exactly what is being discussed here. .. Buy the stone from a cheaper source elsewhere and ask the store to set it. That’s rational and reasonable behavior and being crabby about it just drives customers away from the store and the possibility of other business.

Here’s some specific advice for stores. Charge enough for your setting services and design skills that you make a living. Charge for what used to be ‘free’ advice (meaning appraisals and the like) and then do such a good job at it that YOU become the go-to expert. Be nice to everyone, even those who aren’t your customers. Not everyone will be. It is NOT a waste of time to talk to people. That’s what salespeople do. They’re in your store for a reason and even if they don’t end up buying from, you got a stab at the sale and you get the opportunity to set up the next sale. If you don’t want to do a particular deal, politely decline and pitch something you DO want to do. As mentioned above, if you want to be an Internet seller, it’s not hard to arrange. I highly recommend it and low low prices is not the only pitch (Tiffany's is into the Internet business in a big way for example). The advantage the big boys have is an illusion and there’s nothing they’re doing that you can’t also do if you want, including discount prices.

 

[pinkjewel]

I think once the B & M stores hear you have bought the stone online, they figure that you will also purchase a setting online and that you're "wasting" their time by just looking and trying on. I'm sure there are many people who actually do this- but if they make the mistake of assuming that everyone is doing this- they will drive people to do exactly that- shop online. Then when they have to close up shop for lack of business they will bitterly complain that the online companies forced them out of business

 

[MichelleCarmen]

I think once the B & M stores hear you have bought the stone online, they figure that you will also purchase a setting online and that you're "wasting" their time by just looking and trying on. I'm sure there are many people who actually do this- but if they make the mistake of assuming that everyone is doing this- they will drive people to do exactly that- shop online. Then when they have to close up shop for lack of business they will bitterly complain that the online companies forced them out of business

Luckily not all jewelry stores are like this. I did find one B&M who always lets me play around and I went in there with my kids, while waiting for a movie to start, and the gal knew I as just window shooping and offered to clean my ring and just chatted with us. Good attitudes like this pay off because I left them a good Yelp review because their friendliness impressed me.

 

[John P]

I think the BEST way they can compete is by having excellent in-person service, which is something an online jeweler can never do in the same way. My local jeweler who I go to does, and every time I'm in there, no matter what time of day, there are at least three other customers there at all times. And the reason is that the staff is SO AWESOME. I try to find one piece of jewelry a month that I need to have repaired or altered just so I can have an excuse to go in and chat with them... and pay them money. Judging by a lot of the things I see other people bringing in, I think I'm not the only one who does that. Everyone who works there is actually a jeweler (not just salespeople), and they're all friendly and knowledgeable and happy to chat about any jewelry piece and let you try on everything even if they know you're just waiting to get a repair back.

And that is how you do business! Terrific example of a store that will remain successful despite the current economic ups and downs.

I'm floored by the fact that, although >90% of jewelry transactions are made face to face, internet sales remain such a panic-button for so many professionals. Every year "ways to fight" the internet are discussed at trade gatherings.

In defense (sort of) of dragonslayer's jeweler - the idea that internet-available-diamonds are "leftovers" is something I've heard said before at our trade shows. That doesn't make it correct but ... like compulsory warnings about the evils of fluorescence or feathers ... it may be something the jeweler was taught, rather than a bald-faced lie.

 

[justginger]

I think once the B & M stores hear you have bought the stone online, they figure that you will also purchase a setting online and that you're "wasting" their time by just looking and trying on. I'm sure there are many people who actually do this- but if they make the mistake of assuming that everyone is doing this- they will drive people to do exactly that- shop online. Then when they have to close up shop for lack of business they will bitterly complain that the online companies forced them out of business

Luckily not all jewelry stores are like this. I did find one B&M who always lets me play around and I went in there with my kids, while waiting for a movie to start, and the gal knew I as just window shooping and offered to clean my ring and just chatted with us. Good attitudes like this pay off because I left them a good Yelp review because their friendliness impressed me.

Yes, if you find a jeweler who actually enjoys their profession, it's their passion, they seem quite happy to chat and share info. I've visited a shop here that is FARRRR too expensive, but they are happy to share their love of fancy colored diamonds. They know I'd never purchase from them, I've spoken with them about where I do get my colored diamonds, and are still happy to let me ogle/try on their goods anyway. Guess who I would recommend friends/family to buy from if they want to stay local (which many do)? So even though they haven't sold me one single item, they've still made money off their kindness and customer service to me.

 

[distracts]

I think the BEST way they can compete is by having excellent in-person service, which is something an online jeweler can never do in the same way. My local jeweler who I go to does, and every time I'm in there, no matter what time of day, there are at least three other customers there at all times. And the reason is that the staff is SO AWESOME. I try to find one piece of jewelry a month that I need to have repaired or altered just so I can have an excuse to go in and chat with them... and pay them money. Judging by a lot of the things I see other people bringing in, I think I'm not the only one who does that. Everyone who works there is actually a jeweler (not just salespeople), and they're all friendly and knowledgeable and happy to chat about any jewelry piece and let you try on everything even if they know you're just waiting to get a repair back.

And that is how you do business! Terrific example of a store that will remain successful despite the current economic ups and downs.

Yep. My mom will soon be commissioning a custom piece from them on my recommendation and earlier this week two of my friends bought their engagement ring (sapphire center stone) there, also on my recommendation.